Isuzu MUX

[sjonburi]

Besides the weight difference I also feel that Toyota and Isuzu know a thing or two about transferring the engine's ponies and torque to the wheels without too much parasitic loss. The Hilux 2.5 which only has 144 ponies and 343 nm of torque is almost a 1.5 second quicker in the 80-120 km/ h acceleration compared to the 2.2 Ranger which has more HP and Torque..

Me thinks "Not playing the numbers game" is what car makers say when the competition has better numbers to brag about.

Ford TH don't play the numbers game with weight, at least on their web site specs. Wonder if that could be because the Ranger is a bit on the porky side?

Ford RSA reckon a 3.2L 4x4 AT Wildtrack is 2118kg, 248kg more than Toyota's 1,870kg for the Hilux 3.0L 4x4 AT. The V-Cross is similar or lighter to the Hilux, Maybe IMHO is right about the beer and pizza.

The Ranger has a no significant Power to weight advantage so performance should be similar. Will be interesting to see how overweight the new Everest turns out to be.

[Jitar]

I'm not sure how much power transfer would differ between the Hilux and Ranger. The gearing is similar and the manual and auto transmissions designs are not too different apart from Ford using 6 speeds which should help them. Would be interesting to see how close dyno results are to the spec sheet claims.

Toyota and Isuzu's power transfer would not have be much better to keep pace with the Ranger because the 2.2L Ranger is as Fat as it's 3.2L cousin. The Toyota ends up with a better power to weight ratio because the Ford 2.2L Engine has 6hp and 30Nm more than the Toyota 2.5L but it has to drag around an extra 200 - 250kg. The Toyota engine does runs out of puff earlier but that is probably still above the 120km/h point.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Jitar

[thailoht]

I'm not sure how much power transfer would differ between the Hilux and Ranger. The gearing is similar and the manual and auto transmissions designs are not too different apart from Ford using 6 speeds which should help them. Would be interesting to see how close dyno results are to the spec sheet claims.

Toyota and Isuzu's power transfer would not have be much better to keep pace with the Ranger because the 2.2L Ranger is as Fat as it's 3.2L cousin. The Toyota ends up with a better power to weight ratio because the Ford 2.2L Engine has 6hp and 30Nm more than the Toyota 2.5L but it has to drag around an extra 200 - 250kg. The Toyota engine does runs out of puff earlier but that is probably still above the 120km/h point.

Breaking some (technical) eggs and comparing apples to apples!

[fullcave]

I just happened to sit in a Pajero Sport on display at the mall today, too. It's interior space isn't even that of the MU-X!! It's trunk space even seemed to be smaller (if the same) than the MU-X ... and the MU-X (and Pajero Sport?) are larger and than the Fortuner!!

All PPV's, except for the Everest, are now the same size.... unless you need to go down to the milliimeter level to prove yours is bigger They all might appear different, but there's really nothing in it.

If you want big, buy an old MU-7 or Everest, or step up to a full-size American SUV like the Hummer or Benz GL

Resale wise far less depreciation on the Isuzu or Toyota then the Ford or Benz. Hummer is a thirsty beast…

Maybe even more important is initial price

Absolutely as well as finance options for some and others including maintenance costs/ longevity/ pulling capacity/ cargo space/ sleeping capacity/ CC/ HP etc. etc… Too many to list. But depreciation is most certainly a high consideration for me as I change over every three years or so depending. However this time I wait to see the new models coming out next year as there’s nothing on the market presently that meets my personal criteria... .

[IMHO]

Absolutely as well as finance options for some and others including maintenance costs/ longevity/ pulling capacity/ cargo space/ sleeping capacity/ CC/ HP etc. etc… Too many to list. But depreciation is most certainly a high consideration for me as I change over every three years or so depending. However this time I wait to see the new models coming out next year as there’s nothing on the market presently that meets my personal criteria... .

If depreciation is a primary concern, so should be insurance I guess. You could buy another car for how much it costs just to insure one of these 6M Baht SUV's for 5 years

[Ace of Pop]

Try a Suzuki SX4 First.

[sjonburi]

Exactly, always fun to see some new Ranger and BT-50 owners trying to outpace me in my "10 YO plattform" Hilux and get annoyed when they can't

I'm not sure how much power transfer would differ between the Hilux and Ranger. The gearing is similar and the manual and auto transmissions designs are not too different apart from Ford using 6 speeds which should help them. Would be interesting to see how close dyno results are to the spec sheet claims.

Toyota and Isuzu's power transfer would not have be much better to keep pace with the Ranger because the 2.2L Ranger is as Fat as it's 3.2L cousin. The Toyota ends up with a better power to weight ratio because the Ford 2.2L Engine has 6hp and 30Nm more than the Toyota 2.5L but it has to drag around an extra 200 - 250kg. The Toyota engine does runs out of puff earlier but that is probably still above the 120km/h point.

[funcat]

Exactly, always fun to see some new Ranger and BT-50 owners trying to outpace me in my "10 YO plattform" Hilux and get annoyed when they can't

I'm not sure how much power transfer would differ between the Hilux and Ranger. The gearing is similar and the manual and auto transmissions designs are not too different apart from Ford using 6 speeds which should help them. Would be interesting to see how close dyno results are to the spec sheet claims.

Toyota and Isuzu's power transfer would not have be much better to keep pace with the Ranger because the 2.2L Ranger is as Fat as it's 3.2L cousin. The Toyota ends up with a better power to weight ratio because the Ford 2.2L Engine has 6hp and 30Nm more than the Toyota 2.5L but it has to drag around an extra 200 - 250kg. The Toyota engine does runs out of puff earlier but that is probably still above the 120km/h point.

I don't know about 'outpacing'....but New Ranger 2.2 is much better package than that "10 year old platform" of yours...and I can only smile still seeing people spending more money on something so outdated .

[liddelljohn]

i have ordered a new MUX 3 litre auto 2wd in The dark bronze metallic , delivery january ,,,tried the 2.5l but it was underpowered ,,, no cruise control which is sad but overall very impressed , ride is firm but on crappy Thai roads it eats them up much nicer than the old fortuner and higher too ,

my wife loves Isuzu's and she drives it 90% of the time , i prefer motorcycles ,

last isuzu pickup i had did 568,000k lasted 17 years and still sold for 150k to an issan farmer , my Fortuner has been unreliable and not very fuel efficient ,, Isuzu should be better on those 2 scores

[thailoht]

i have ordered a new MUX 3 litre auto 2wd in The dark bronze metallic , delivery january ,,,tried the 2.5l but it was underpowered ,,, no cruise control which is sad but overall very impressed , ride is firm but on crappy Thai roads it eats them up much nicer than the old fortuner and higher too ,

my wife loves Isuzu's and she drives it 90% of the time , i prefer motorcycles ,

last isuzu pickup i had did 568,000k lasted 17 years and still sold for 150k to an issan farmer , my Fortuner has been unreliable and not very fuel efficient ,, Isuzu should be better on those 2 scores

Congratulations on your new car purchase!

Without going through the repetitive acknowledgement process stating that opinions are subjective and based on ones personal preferences

...this one sure still sounds sweet!

[IMHO]

i have ordered a new MUX 3 litre auto 2wd in The dark bronze metallic , delivery january ,,,tried the 2.5l but it was underpowered ,,, no cruise control which is sad but overall very impressed , ride is firm but on crappy Thai roads it eats them up much nicer than the old fortuner and higher too ,

my wife loves Isuzu's and she drives it 90% of the time , i prefer motorcycles ,

last isuzu pickup i had did 568,000k lasted 17 years and still sold for 150k to an issan farmer , my Fortuner has been unreliable and not very fuel efficient ,, Isuzu should be better on those 2 scores

The Toyota 3.0L is more fuel efficient on the highway, the Isuzu 3.0L more fuel efficient around town. In normal mixed use, they will be about the same.

Curious what problems you've experienced with your Fortuner though - the only common issue I know of was front discs warping on pre-2008 models.

[thailoht]

The Toyota 3.0L is more fuel efficient on the highway, the Isuzu 3.0L more fuel efficient around town. In normal mixed use, they will be about the same.

Curious what problems you've experienced with your Fortuner though - the only common issue I know of was front discs warping on pre-2008 models.

While we are on the subject, is it possible for you to locate and post mfg. 2.xL and 3.xL diesel engine data to compare:

1) Each engine's laboratory specs (while not attached to a vehicle).

2) Each engine's specs per model: pickup truck, SUV and saloon.

A list such as this can serve as a base of reference for LOS auto consumers and keep them that much more informed.

Edited November 22, 2013 by thailoht

[sjonburi]

Good luck with your depreciation then and don't go too deep in those puddles

The thing with the new Ranger and BT-50 is that they have tried so hard to put car-like features / characteristics in a pickup truck that it always leaves compromises one way or another..

Exactly, always fun to see some new Ranger and BT-50 owners trying to outpace me in my "10 YO plattform" Hilux and get annoyed when they can't

I'm not sure how much power transfer would differ between the Hilux and Ranger. The gearing is similar and the manual and auto transmissions designs are not too different apart from Ford using 6 speeds which should help them. Would be interesting to see how close dyno results are to the spec sheet claims.

Toyota and Isuzu's power transfer would not have be much better to keep pace with the Ranger because the 2.2L Ranger is as Fat as it's 3.2L cousin. The Toyota ends up with a better power to weight ratio because the Ford 2.2L Engine has 6hp and 30Nm more than the Toyota 2.5L but it has to drag around an extra 200 - 250kg. The Toyota engine does runs out of puff earlier but that is probably still above the 120km/h point.

I don't know about 'outpacing'....but New Ranger 2.2 is much better package than that "10 year old platform" of yours...and I can only smile still seeing people spending more money on something so outdated .

Edited November 22, 2013 by sjonburi

[Jitar]

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

[thailoht]

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

Thanx mahk-mahk!

Maybe (?) Post #19 in the above link can serve as a factual point of reference for engine performance statistics!

Edited November 22, 2013 by thailoht

[IMHO]

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

Thanx mahk-mahk!

Maybe (?) Post #19 in the above link can serve as a factual point of reference for engine performance statistics!

Indeed, but what those charts don't show is real world performance, The reality of that is that there really isn't much between the top-spec models once you get behind the wheel. Small differences yes, big standouts, no.

[Jitar]

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

Thanx mahk-mahk!

Maybe (?) Post #19 in the above link can serve as a factual point of reference for engine performance statistics!

Indeed, but what those charts don't show is real world performance, The reality of that is that there really isn't much between the top-spec models once you get behind the wheel. Small differences yes, big standouts, no.

True, the engine performance is only one of many factors.

Still, the small differences keep this forum going on and on and on.

[thailoht]

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

Thanx mahk-mahk!

Maybe (?) Post #19 in the above link can serve as a factual point of reference for engine performance statistics!

Indeed, but what those charts don't show is real world performance, The reality of that is that there really isn't much between the top-spec models once you get behind the wheel. Small differences yes, big standouts, no.

This is more than likely true and also my 'opinion', but I am for letting the facts themselves speak by trying to establish is a definitive point of reference that can be use to compare the performance of different diesel engines.

In the two charts referred to above, we have the performance rate data of each individual class of 'engines-on-the-stand in a laboratory' - or on a professional dyno(?)

This lets everyone see the raw, 'unadulterated' potential of each engine - w/o the burden of a vehicle body - an absolute 'base'.

Now, all that is needed is a chart that lists the Horse Power and Torque ratings of the various SUV and pickup models that have been tested (under as close as possible 'Real World' conditions), with all of the above engines. This will let the consumer compare both, more of the 'Real World' performance ratings as well as to the efficiency of each model (when compared to their respective engine in the two charts above).

[IMHO]

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

Thanx mahk-mahk!

Maybe (?) Post #19 in the above link can serve as a factual point of reference for engine performance statistics!

Indeed, but what those charts don't show is real world performance, The reality of that is that there really isn't much between the top-spec models once you get behind the wheel. Small differences yes, big standouts, no.

This is more than likely true and also my 'opinion', but I am for letting the facts themselves speak by trying to establish is a definitive point of reference that can be use to compare the performance of different diesel engines.

In the two charts referred to above, we have the performance rate data of each individual class of 'engines-on-the-stand in a laboratory' - or on a professional dyno(?)

This lets everyone see the raw, 'unadulterated' potential of each engine - w/o the burden of a vehicle body - an absolute 'base'.

Now, all that is needed is a chart that lists the Horse Power and Torque ratings of the various SUV and pickup models that have been tested (under as close as possible 'Real World' conditions), with all of the above engines. This will let the consumer compare both, more of the 'Real World' performance ratings as well as to the efficiency of each model (when compared to their respective engine in the two charts above).

The charts linked above are all based on flywheel HP, in a lab.

I see what you're trying to achieve, but really you have to consider the package, and technically the differences are so small you really just should base your decision on features, styling and economics. All these manufacturers are designing and manufacturing to the exact same price point, and making the same basic compromises. All have good engineers, and good bean counters too

[thailoht]

The charts linked above are all based on flywheel HP, in a lab.

I see what you're trying to achieve, but really you have to consider the package, and technically the differences are so small you really just should base your decision on features, styling and economics. All these manufacturers are designing and manufacturing to the exact same price point, and making the same basic compromises. All have good engineers, and good bean counters too

Don't get me wrong: You are absolutely correct and I agree with you wholeheartedly, (after all, 'You 'dah man!', as we would say back home).

My only dog in all of this is that in this growing world of technology and information, it's far better 'to know' something than not to - let's complete this package of engine performance ratings and post it for all to see!.

We now have the first part of the engine performance ratings, if we can come across a second chart that lists the FE(?), Horse Power and Torque of the engines (listed above) while installed in their most popular vehicle models, it can serve as a technical point of reference for those who may want to make accurate comparisons: those in the market to buy an auto as well as posters in this forum.

[liddelljohn]

Soe people have mentioned the chevy trailblazer ,, whilst it shares chassis and body with Isuzu the engines are completely different ,,,

The fortuner i have had as a company car for 3 years has had problems with Turbo failing twice ,, autobox faliure , and very high fuel consumption , i dont need it now as i have recently chaanged jobs ,, been using my Mia Nois mazda 2 which is pleasnt little car but it has problems under warranty with suspension faliure ,, seems a common issue with mazdas ??????,, If i can ride a motorcycle its my preference .

Be interesting to see whnen the new MUX we ordered turns up ,, They say January ????

[thailoht]

Some people have mentioned the Chevy Trailblazer ,, whilst it shares chassis and body with Isuzu the engines are completely different ,,,

The fortuner i have had as a company car for 3 years has had problems with Turbo failing twice ,, autobox faliure , and very high fuel consumption , i dont need it now as i have recently changed jobs ,, been using my Mia Nois Mazda 2 which is pleasant little car but it has problems under warranty with suspension failiure ,, seems a common issue with Mazdas ?????? If i can ride a motorcycle, its my preference .

Be interesting to see when the new MU-X we ordered turns up ,, They say January ????

.... interesting indeed!

I take it you called around to see if any dealerships have MU-X models onsite for sale? If going that route comes up short, isn't there a (big?) auto show in Bkk next week? If that proves to be true, those shows are infamously known for pulling all sorts of auto deals out of the hat and even to make cars miraculously appear for new customers when no other dealer could!

[IMHO]

We now have the first part of the engine performance ratings, if we can come across a second chart that lists the FE(?)

The problem with FE measurements are that in TH they are currently only required for the eco-car category (using EU standard) - so there are just no official measurements in other classes.

What Thai manufacturers/marketing teams prefer are 'group drive competitions' where everyone is a hypermiler and competing for the lowest fuel consumption, as these produce much better looking numbers and more spectacular press releases than test cycle results....

In 2016 this will change though, as excise taxes will then be based on CO2 output, so everyone will then need to test & publish results (CO2 tests are the same as FE tests, and one can be pretty reliably extrapolated from the other even if not published).

Until then, your best bet is to try and find data published in either EU or AU (don't compare EU to AU numbers though, they are different tests). The problem with that is PPV's - models like the Fortuner, MU-7/X, and Everest have never been sold into those markets - the Pajero Sport (Challenger) and Trailblazer (Colorado7) are currently the only PPV's exported to Western markets (but the MU-X will start exporting next year).

You could however try to extrapolate Pickup FE data to PPV numbers, but there would of course be a margin of error in that, and export models often differ from domestic models too (Euro4 vs Euro5 engines, no 3.0L Isuzu engines for EU market etc).

There are some privately conducted FE tests conducted by firms who provide data to the industry and people like fleet managers, but these are not published publicly.

Edited November 23, 2013 by IMHO

[Ace of Pop]

L. J. that was my findings with a Fortuna, one Turbo and line pressures in Auto Box. But ones onyly allowed to praise Tunas here . My Sons done just under a year with his T Blazer, Perfect , and hes rough on Cars. It outhandles a Tuna but i prefer the PJS.

[thailoht]

We now have the first part of the engine performance ratings, if we can come across a second chart that lists the FE(?)

The problem with FE measurements are that in TH they are currently only required for the eco-car category (using EU standard) - so there are just no official measurements in other classes.

What Thai manufacturers/marketing teams prefer are 'group drive competitions' where everyone is a hypermiler and competing for the lowest fuel consumption, as these produce much better looking numbers and more spectacular press releases than test cycle results....

In 2016 this will change though, as excise taxes will then be based on CO2 output, so everyone will then need to test & publish results (CO2 tests are the same as FE tests, and one can be pretty reliably extrapolated from the other even if not published).

Until then, your best bet is to try and find data published in either EU or AU (don't compare EU to AU numbers though, they are different tests). The problem with that is PPV's - models like the Fortuner, MU-7/X, and Everest have never been sold into those markets - the Pajero Sport (Challenger) and Trailblazer (Colorado7) are currently the only PPV's exported to Western markets (but the MU-X will start exporting next year).

You could however try to extrapolate Pickup FE data to PPV numbers, but there would of course be a margin of error in that, and export models often differ from domestic models too (Euro4 vs Euro5 engines, no 3.0L Isuzu engines for EU market etc).

There are some privately conducted FE tests conducted by firms who provide data to the industry and people like fleet managers, but these are not published publicly.

This is an excellent and very definitive explanation that bridges the issue I was trying to raise with the reality of this marketplace.

My hat is off to you once again for sharing your depth of knowledge of the LOS auto industry with the rest of us on this forum to help maintain its overall high standard!

[thailoht]

L. J. that was my findings with a Fortuna, one Turbo and line pressures in Auto Box. But ones only allowed to praise Tunas here . My Sons done just under a year with his T Blazer, Perfect , and hes rough on Cars. It out handles a Tuna but i prefer the PJS.

Now , we have at least you and Liddlejohn to break that mold!

Having pre-mature transmission failure is no fun ....

[liddelljohn]

Some people have mentioned the Chevy Trailblazer ,, whilst it shares chassis and body with Isuzu the engines are completely different ,,,

The fortuner i have had as a company car for 3 years has had problems with Turbo failing twice ,, autobox faliure , and very high fuel consumption , i dont need it now as i have recently changed jobs ,, been using my Mia Nois Mazda 2 which is pleasant little car but it has problems under warranty with suspension failiure ,, seems a common issue with Mazdas ?????? If i can ride a motorcycle, its my preference .

Be interesting to see when the new MU-X we ordered turns up ,, They say January ????

.... interesting indeed!

I take it you called around to see if any dealerships have MU-X models onsite for sale? If going that route comes up short, isn't there a (big?) auto show in Bkk next week? If that proves to be true, those shows are infamously known for pulling all sorts of auto deals out of the hat and even to make cars miraculously appear for new customers when no other dealer could!

pattaya isuzu had models for test rides last week we tried the 2,5L and 3 L models before ordering a 3Litre .

[liddelljohn]

The Aussie market gets all the Thai pickup models with same engines as fortunner and MUX and they have realistic fuel emmision tests and reviews ,

The fortunner was banned from sale in EU and a few other markets due instability , rollovers and safety issues when undergoing the swerve (moose0 test ,,

[IMHO]

The Aussie market gets all the Thai pickup models with same engines as fortunner and MUX and they have realistic fuel emmision tests and reviews ,

The fortunner was banned from sale in EU and a few other markets due instability , rollovers and safety issues when undergoing the swerve (moose0 test ,,

If you want AU FE numbers, google for "green vehicle guide' (govt website). As noted, extrapolating Pickup to PPV is going to have a margin of error though. Australia doesn't yet have the revised Duramax engines (Colorado) either.

As for the Hilux and EU, yep sales of the Hilux were suspended for a couple of weeks until he cause of the Moose Test failure was found (the fix was different wheels and tires BTW). The Fortuner makes it's way to Middle East and ASEAN, but never to EU or AU. That will change with the next gen though - it's being designed in AU and has been confirmed for that market.

[thailoht]

The Aussie market gets all the Thai pickup models with same engines as Fortuner and MUX and they have realistic fuel emission tests and reviews.

The Fortuner was banned from sale in EU and a few other markets due instability, rollovers and safety issues when undergoing the swerve (moose) test.

Geez, this is the first purported official mention of this problem that I am hearing and would seem to support AOP's assertion of the weekly pile up of Fortuners(?) vehicles at the bottom of his mountain. Before this, I was praising the ride quality of the rental Fortuner that I had driven on trips in the mountains and over thousands of km of the roads of LOS - just goes to show you.....