How the Thai amnesty bill was pushed through

[rametindallas]

"Street protesters should ask themselves why they are against amnesty, when it is meant to reduce political conflicts," he said.

"MPs and Senators should ask themselves why they are for amnesty, when it is meant to raise political conflicts," I said.

Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanij explained that the upper chamber would not address the issue of whether the bill was a fiscal issue as the House had already ruled out the government's fiscal responsibility.

With that logic, the Senate doesn't need to debate the bill as the House has already debated it.

[rametindallas]

I guess some people will never get it .Whether you are a Red Shirt Yellow Shirt of Pink Shirt ( Pink is for lady boys) This grudge fighting about this whole thing has gotten to a point where it can really hurt all Thais

Its time to move on get over it Thaksin is ONE MAN and there are many who where involved in the protests. As a American I look on and see the pettiness of this all. They are now fighting for the sake of fighting no Democracy. Democracy is the rule of the majority. Not the rule of a Mob no matter what your T shirt color is.

This needs to be resolved for your children and their future This is the main reason . Look into the eyes of your child Then ask yourself Do I really care about all of this or the future of your children

This is the only reason you should protest. Is the plight of one man or many going to effect your children If you answer is NO then move on

Wow, do you really believe the issues at hand are petty?

Does it not make any difference to the children whether they grow up in a Western style democracy or a Hun Sen type dictatorial type democracy?

BTW the use of the word 'plight' pretends that all this has fallen on Thaksin when the truth is, he is the instigator. Hun Sen is ONE MAN but he wields inordinate power, Dr. Thaksin is ONE MAN but he controls the strings of power in this country from abroad. Consider his power if he were in Thailand, 45 billion Baht richer, and in political office. Well, maybe, considering your post, you cannot imagine such a thing.

[rametindallas]

Let's get real. If a government took 46 billion of your money (wow, I wish!) away, wouldn't you do just about anything to get it back?

It just amazes me that so many farangs rant and rail against this government, when you have no vote, no way at all to influence anything. It's the Thai people who have to sort it all out, for good or ill.

Wear a helmet. It's the law.

Let's get really real. If the government took 46 billion of my money that I had acquired while in office through corrupt means, I would be happy if they did not also prosecute for amassing such illegal wealth.

It just amazes me that Farangs can defend the most corrupt elected official in Thailand's history when they witness their Thai neighbors methodically being put under the thumb of a dictator.

[boomerangutang]

"....not a fiscal issue" Buaha haha, erg, chortle.

I guess giving 46 billion baht (plus % over several years) of from government coffers, is not a fiscal issue.

Next he'll tell you he's got a swimming pool filled with liquid platinum, and a mastodon serving tea in the pantry.

No. No. NO. You've got it wrong. This bill has nothing to do with Thaksin getting his 46 billion baht back. That comes after the bill has passed, when Thaskin walks into court and says "See I did nothing wrong. Give me my money back".

I agree, that's what will happen, in effect, though T himself won't walk in to a court, he'll get one of his hired people to do it. When asked about it, Thaksin will say something like:

"I didn't think the amnesty bill was about pardoning me and me getting a load of money. But if you insist, shucks, well, I guess I'll take it. Thanks folks. Oh, while I'm basking in your adulation, why don't I just go sit in the PM's chair. That's ok with you lovely sheeple, isn't it?"

Let's get real. If a government took 46 billion of your money (wow, I wish!) away, wouldn't you do just about anything to get it back? It just amazes me that so many farangs rant and rail against this government, when you have no vote, no way at all to influence anything. It's the Thai people who have to sort it all out, for good or ill. Wear a helmet. It's the law.

It's called A FINE. I assume you understand what a fine is. It's when you break the law, you get caught, convicted, .....sometimes there's a fine.

As for the Thai people ....they're not sorting it out. They're making a big mess, for themselves, for resident farang, and for the tourist industry. We have no vote, but thankfully we have a little bit of outlet for our frustrations, including this forum and letters to newspapers. They may have no effect, but then again, they may. 15 years ago it was quite costly for the average Thai kid to go to grammar school. I wrote a slew of letter to Bkk newspapers about it. Then the law got changed to make it a bit easier for poor parents to afford to send their kids to school (some weren't because of costs). Maybe I had an effect, maybe not.

Sometimes I feel like we, the thinking farang, are like adults talking to kids (Thai legislators). And for similar reasons, that could explain some resentment (by Thais) re; farang speaking up about anything significant that happens in their country. Simply put; they're not doing a good job of running their country.

[boomerangutang]

double post

Edited November 2, 2013 by boomerangutang

[Stradavarius37]

Thaksin and the Army/Prem struck a deal. No one else matters. Its all over, fat lady is warming up...

That may be, but never underestimate Thaksin's ability to screw things up. That's what got him into trouble in the first place.

If so, any "deal" would of been royally appointed. There's absolutely no evidence of this (if there is, please share if poss).

The bill has only just left the house and is meeting massive resistance. Things seem like they are heading very 2006 pre-coup.

You are not allowed to use the word "massive" unless you can show me a group larger than 20,000 people protesting....Massive? I'll wait...

[Insight]

There was for non interference if conditions were met, like redshirts are disbanded and Les Majeste is left alone. How else do you explain Yinglucks meetings with the father of the Thaksin coup, Prem and the undemocratic clause in the amnesty clause that excludes those charged with les majeste? Or Privy Council president and statesman Prem Tinsulanonda has calling on the armed forces to support Prime Minister and Defence Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, post amnesty passing its third reading?

When exactly did this happen? The "amnesty" package has only just been modified very recently to completely whitewash Thaksin, hence all the uproar we're seeing now.

And if a "deal" has been done, why are both Pryuth and Abhisit - supposedly "poster boys" of the "amart" - still both very vocally very against amnesty for themselves?

[rubl]

Oh I understand democracy, but when people are discussing percentage of votes cast, as they are, it's kind of reasonable for me to explain the democratic voting system to them as they tend to think it's unfair that their choice of political party didn't get to form a government despite the fact they got less seats.

If we were talking about the democratic system then that would have been a different discussion.

Excuse my scorn but try another target eh?

You just like making shit up, don't you.

I'm sorry. Just because you've been on the losing end of a few discussions now there is no need to get upset.

Now if you wish to follow the thread of the discussion you will find that is exactly what people were talking about. Whether it was the percentage of people voting or percentage of votes cast or even stealing votes in the case of the dem / bjp coalition it was about the democratic voting system not the democratic system per se.

Please point out anywhere I was making something up, I'm curious.

Stealing votes? You mean as opposed to only buying them?

Now let's just have a look at how the amnesty bill was forcefully pushed through. No need to hurry and within slightly more than 24 hours both 2nd and 3rd reading completed, voted on, accepted by all (Pheu Thai, coalition partners and a few hopefulls). Even Pheu Thai partylist MP and UDD leader Korkaew voting for (his) amnesty.

Now with all wishful thinking and questions on 'what if' may I wonder about how former Pheu Thai party list MP and still UDD leader Jatuporn would have voted? One of those who shouted most on 'justice, punish the guilty' and so.

BTW as only three out of a good dozen UDD leaders / red-shirts turned Pheu Thai party list MP (merely) abstained and the others voted for amnesty, will Ms. Thida expell those from the UDD? She has been very vocal on 'justice' and 'punish guilty'. Even the 'abstain' may already bring her husband Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader Dr. weng in severe problems at home.

Edited November 2, 2013 by rubl

[rubl]

Thaksin and the Army/Prem struck a deal. No one else matters. Its all over, fat lady is warming up...

That may be, but never underestimate Thaksin's ability to screw things up. That's what got him into trouble in the first place.

If so, any "deal" would of been royally appointed. There's absolutely no evidence of this (if there is, please share if poss).

The bill has only just left the house and is meeting massive resistance. Things seem like they are heading very 2006 pre-coup.

You are not allowed to use the word "massive" unless you can show me a group larger than 20,000 people protesting....Massive? I'll wait...

Don't you look the news on channel3-5.7, or bluesky?

[AleG]

Thaksin and the Army/Prem struck a deal. No one else matters. Its all over, fat lady is warming up...

That may be, but never underestimate Thaksin's ability to screw things up. That's what got him into trouble in the first place.

If so, any "deal" would of been royally appointed. There's absolutely no evidence of this (if there is, please share if poss).

The bill has only just left the house and is meeting massive resistance. Things seem like they are heading very 2006 pre-coup.

You are not allowed to use the word "massive" unless you can show me a group larger than 20,000 people protesting....Massive? I'll wait...

I've seen the results of a Dusit poll on this train wreck, 89% of the people polled were against it, I'd say that's massive.

[yoshiwara]

Thaksin and the Army/Prem struck a deal. No one else matters. Its all over, fat lady is warming up...

That may be, but never underestimate Thaksin's ability to screw things up. That's what got him into trouble in the first place.

If so, any "deal" would of been royally appointed. There's absolutely no evidence of this (if there is, please share if poss).

The bill has only just left the house and is meeting massive resistance. Things seem like they are heading very 2006 pre-coup.

There was for non interference if conditions were met, like redshirts are disbanded and Les Majeste is left alone. How else do you explain Yinglucks meetings with the father of the Thaksin coup, Prem and the undemocratic clause in the amnesty clause that excludes those charged with les majeste? Or Privy Council president and statesman Prem Tinsulanonda has calling on the armed forces to support Prime Minister and Defence Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, post amnesty passing its third reading?

"In recent months, the Yingluck government has made it clear that lese majeste will not be amended. Yingluck states she will focus on the economy and rehabilitating the country .... Before the election and even recently, Thaksin has referred to problems with the excessive use of lese majeste, but he has not indicated any reform. It appears as part of some deal/arrangement with the establishment that there will be NO reform of lese majeste in the near future." http://asiancorrespondent.com/89905/thaksin-privy-council-needs-to-take-the-lead-on-lese-majeste-reform/

But those Red Shirts who had hoped that Prime Minister Yingluck would support the reformist or revolutionary impulses among rank-and-file Red Shirts have been disappointed. Instead, she has been pictured paying her respects to the king’s enforcer, Privy Council chairman General Prem Tinsulanonda, and doing whatever else she can to remain cosy with military and palace insiders.......http://inside.org.au/thaksin-lives/

That is a big change from 2006 when Prem said...........

Prem thought that a Privy Councillor was higher than a Prime Minister and that the political “elite” of the country think Thaksin is “a peasant.” He claimed that many of his opponents are “living off land given them by the palace” and said that the courts were being used in an anti-democratic fashion.......[power] had gone to his [Thaksin's] head … and made him believe that “he’s number one.” But Thailand was not like America, Prem added. “We already have a number one.” Thaksin needed to learn that he was the manager of the shop, not the owner. http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/wikileaks-prem-on-thaksin/

Highly informative. The trouble is that we have been here before and Thaksin went and blew himself up.

[yoshiwara]

Oh I understand democracy, but when people are discussing percentage of votes cast, as they are, it's kind of reasonable for me to explain the democratic voting system to them as they tend to think it's unfair that their choice of political party didn't get to form a government despite the fact they got less seats.

If we were talking about the democratic system then that would have been a different discussion.

Excuse my scorn but try another target eh?

You just like making shit up, don't you.

I'm sorry. Just because you've been on the losing end of a few discussions now there is no need to get upset.

Now if you wish to follow the thread of the discussion you will find that is exactly what people were talking about. Whether it was the percentage of people voting or percentage of votes cast or even stealing votes in the case of the dem / bjp coalition it was about the democratic voting system not the democratic system per se.

Please point out anywhere I was making something up, I'm curious.

Stealing votes? You mean as opposed to only buying them?

Now let's just have a look at how the amnesty bill was forcefully pushed through. No need to hurry and within slightly more than 24 hours both 2nd and 3rd reading completed, voted on, accepted by all (Pheu Thai, coalition partners and a few hopefulls). Even Pheu Thai partylist MP and UDD leader Korkaew voting for (his) amnesty.

Now with all wishful thinking and questions on 'what if' may I wonder about how former Pheu Thai party list MP and still UDD leader Jatuporn would have voted? One of those who shouted most on 'justice, punish the guilty' and so.

BTW as only three out of a good dozen UDD leaders / red-shirts turned Pheu Thai party list MP (merely) abstained and the others voted for amnesty, will Ms. Thida expell those from the UDD? She has been very vocal on 'justice' and 'punish guilty'. Even the 'abstain' may already bring her husband Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader Dr. weng in severe problems at home.

The issue will be whether Thida and the rest of the attack dogs are given a nod and a wink to stand by.

[fasteddie]

Corruption from the beginning to the end, the poor get poorer and the rich even more richer,.....sounds like ditactorship

Sounds like the UK!

[kimamey]

Let's get real. If a government took 46 billion of your money (wow, I wish!) away, wouldn't you do just about anything to get it back?

It just amazes me that so many farangs rant and rail against this government, when you have no vote, no way at all to influence anything. It's the Thai people who have to sort it all out, for good or ill.

Wear a helmet. It's the law.

If we farangs had a vote we would have another option other than just rant, but we don't. Some of us have family here and this affects them so it matters to us.

Google the word 'forum'. It's helpfully written at the top of each page under the words 'Thai' and 'Visa'. When you've grasped that maybe you could research the difference between 'Thailand' and 'internet' or 'world wide web (www)'.

[fasteddie]

Very true . The current government were elected by the majority of the people and this majority were from poor and under developed areas who gave their support for less than thirty pieces of silver and allowed for these elected officials to syphon off huge sums of government money for their personal gain. They were simply used and disgarded owing to their myopic viewpoint and lack of insight and education.

nearly right...but they werent elected by the majority..of the poeople...only a majority of the vote...otherwise your spot on sir.....

No. They didn't get a majority of the vote, only 48%. What they managed to do was get the majority of the seats in parliament.

And that is Democracy.

Didn't see you complaining about abhisit and his coalition buying enough votes to form a government with the aid of the military http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Democrat-govt-a-shotgun-wedding--30090626.html

You going to tell one of the oldest contemporary continuously running democracies in the world, the UK, that they got it all wrong?

"You going to tell one of the oldest contemporary continuously running democracies in the world, the UK, that they got it all wrong?"

You're damn right! The UK is. at this moment in time, in the grip of a heartless. vicious, gang of psychopaths, who the majority of the voters, voted against! What's not wrong about that?

Edited November 2, 2013 by fasteddie

[fasteddie]

Corruption from the beginning to the end, the poor get poorer and the rich even more richer,.....sounds like ditactorship

Sounds like Capitalism...or Communism...take your pick.

I'll pick "Capitalism", given that it is most definitely not Communism.

Edited November 2, 2013 by fasteddie

[fasteddie]

Let's get real. If a government took 46 billion of your money (wow, I wish!) away, wouldn't you do just about anything to get it back?

It just amazes me that so many farangs rant and rail against this government, when you have no vote, no way at all to influence anything. It's the Thai people who have to sort it all out, for good or ill.

Wear a helmet. It's the law.

Let's get really real. If the government took 46 billion of my money that I had acquired while in office through corrupt means, I would be happy if they did not also prosecute for amassing such illegal wealth.

It just amazes me that Farangs can defend the most corrupt elected official in Thailand's history when they witness their Thai neighbors methodically being put under the thumb of a dictator.

They've almost always been under a dictatorship, only they got to vote for this one.

[Thaddeus]

Let's get real. If a government took 46 billion of your money (wow, I wish!) away, wouldn't you do just about anything to get it back?

It just amazes me that so many farangs rant and rail against this government, when you have no vote, no way at all to influence anything. It's the Thai people who have to sort it all out, for good or ill.

Wear a helmet. It's the law.

Let's get really real. If the government took 46 billion of my money that I had acquired while in office through corrupt means, I would be happy if they did not also prosecute for amassing such illegal wealth.

It just amazes me that Farangs can defend the most corrupt elected official in Thailand's history when they witness their Thai neighbors methodically being put under the thumb of a dictator.

They've almost always been under a dictatorship, only they got to vote for this one.

Yep. they had a choice, either impossible promises, or the same old same old.

Never realising they were both the same...... but hey, they got an envelope to sway the deal, must have lasted at least a whole week.

Both sides of this equation are probably going to get exactly what they deserve, thankfully one side still has an almost inexhaustible supply of food.

When they finally realise that they don't need the men in suits (and token woman) maybe, just maybe, the Thai people that make this country so good will discover their real voice.

Can't come soon enough for me.

[daboyz1]

They can call it whatever they want. "Amnesty" "Reconciliation" whatever floats their boat. The reality is that this is about one man. If it wasn't, then why didn't they leave him out of it?

The whole thing is sad. Finance riots and arson, get your sister elected, and then voila, amnesty. Hopefully they'll make a movie about it at some point. Stranger than fiction comes to mind. Hopefully the Thai electorate will wake up one day, but I doubt it. I guess the poor will just trod through life being grateful for their occasional meager govt. payout while those in charge become super rich.

Quite sickening actually.

[rametindallas]

Let's get real. If a government took 46 billion of your money (wow, I wish!) away, wouldn't you do just about anything to get it back?

It just amazes me that so many farangs rant and rail against this government, when you have no vote, no way at all to influence anything. It's the Thai people who have to sort it all out, for good or ill.

Wear a helmet. It's the law.

Let's get really real. If the government took 46 billion of my money that I had acquired while in office through corrupt means, I would be happy if they did not also prosecute for amassing such illegal wealth.

It just amazes me that Farangs can defend the most corrupt elected official in Thailand's history when they witness their Thai neighbors methodically being put under the thumb of a dictator.

They've almost always been under a dictatorship, only they got to vote for this one.

A few years from now, when the Shinawatra Dynasty has ensured an iron grip on everything, I want you to look back to today and the relative freedoms Thai citizens and businesses enjoy. If you don't want to wait a few years, just look at Hun Sen's Cambodia today and how he runs roughshod over peoples' property rights, the environment and jails, on trumped up charges, those who disagree with him. That is the model Dr. Thaksin will refine and cement total power over this country. Remember, Dr. Thaksin is quoted as saying, "Democracy is not my goal". His goal is dictatorship for him and his family forever.

[daboyz1]

A few years from now, when the Shinawatra Dynasty has ensured an iron grip on everything, I want you to look back to today and the relative freedoms Thai citizens and businesses enjoy. If you don't want to wait a few years, just look at Hun Sen's Cambodia today and how he runs roughshod over peoples' property rights, the environment and jails, on trumped up charges, those who disagree with him. That is the model Dr. Thaksin will refine and cement total power over this country. Remember, Dr. Thaksin is quoted as saying, "Democracy is not my goal". His goal is dictatorship for him and his family forever.

Mr. T doesn't have control of the military...... yet. Probably just a matter of time though.

[siampolee]

Thaksin is quoted as saying, "Democracy is not my goal". His goal is dictatorship for him and his family forever.

That particular comment is at the bottom of all my posts so as to remind all who can read just what a fan Thaksin is of democracy.

Perhaps these few lines below in the quote box might well serve to actually display Thaksin and his supporters in the cold light of day as they are reality.

Mine eyes are full of tears. I cannot see:

And yet salt water blinds them not so much

But they can see a set of traitors here

Nay if I turn my eyes upon myself

I find myself a traitor with the rest

(William Shakespeare Richard the Second)