Rear Replacement Tire For CBR250?

[WingNut]

I have a CBR250 with about 10,000KM on it. The rear tire is still in pretty good looking condition, but I have felt some slipping recently when leaning a bit on turns. I also heard that the stock IRC tires that come standard on these bikes aren't very good to begin with, which is also perhaps part of the problem. After feeling the slipping coming on a few times I don't feel so safe riding on this back tire anymore and want to replace the tire.

I had discussed this with a friend a few weeks ago who has a bike too and he had mentioned he just replaced his back tire with a Michelin I think it was and which he said would be both good for the street and the track because it is a bit stickier than the standard IRC tires. He also said the shop he went to buy it at was somewhere close to the start of Ram Intra Road in the Town in Town area around Rama 9 perhaps or somewhere around there and that the shop was very fair on prices and did good, fast work on replacing his tire.

The problem is my friend is out of Thailand at the moment and so I can't reach him to ask the exact details from him on what model tire he got and where he got it from. So I am wondering if anyone can tell me what would be the best back tire to put on my CBR250 at this point which will give me the best street riding traction? Also, I would like to know where is the easiest place to have the tire replaced in Bangkok where they will most likely have the tire size in stock that I need and can change it out quickly for a fair price.

Cheers for any advice you may be able to offer...

[yingyo]

2 good choices. Pirelli or Michelin.

Both good value at around 3-4k baht

[WingNut]

2 good choices. Pirelli or Michelin.

Both good value at around 3-4k baht

Cheers. Which tire model on Michelin? Also, any thoughts on where to buy in Bangkok?

[ll2]

i recommend pirelli rosso2.

great tires that provides a lot of confidence.

you can get from 'bigwheel bangkok' just google..balancing and installation is free.

but change both rear and front together for a better ride.

Edited November 2, 2013 by ll2

[WingNut]

Many thanks II2. I think I am a bit more interested in Michelin though. I think my friend said they wear a bit better than Pirelli and cost a bit less too. Does Bigwheel Thailand sell Michelin too or just Pirelli? I saw their FB page and it only seems to mention Pirelli.

[ll2]

For michelin, check the shops around 'wong wian yi sip song' near hua lamphong train station. Cheapest, you can find michelins there.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KRS1]

Dont get the Michelin Pilot Sportys, they lose traction after 4000 kilometers, the tread grooves will still look deep, but there is something about the compound that changes.

Pirelli Rosso 2 - 7500 baht

IRC - IZ003 - 5000 baht

Pirelli Sport Demons - 5000 baht

Ive had the Pirelli Rosso 2, Michelin Pilot Sporty and now running the IZ-003.

The IZ003 is my favorite, Michelins almost got me killed and friend wrecked his NSR 150 twice on Michelins.The Rosso 2 is the easiest tire to ride out the box, the IZ003 will take getting use to - its a track tire. Rosso 2 has better wet traction. But IZ003 grips better. Michelins are the heaviest.

Check tire pressure after installing the tires, they set the initial pressure high to lock the bead and leave it. I would change both tires.

[yingyo]

^ More info on the IZ003?

[EBF]

I got a set of Pirelli Sport Demons. Night and day difference between them and the stock IRC's. Had no wheel slip with them at all.

[KRS1]

^ More info on the IZ003?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671063-new-front-tire-or-new-set/page-2

[Gsxrnz]

Your friend probably means Pilot Sport or Pilot Power. Both decent tyres but are made for hard riding. Unless you're regularly getting your arse off the seat and regularly replacing your knee sliders then you'll be disappointed with the wear distance on any trackday type tyre of this nature. You'll get a big flat spot down the centre with straight street riding after as little as 3,000k's. This makes cornering "interesting".

In fact it may be possible that your present tyre is not actually sliding because of wear itself, but possibly due to the shift when leaning from the flat spot to the rounded edges of the tyre.

As you lean you have to force the bike to fall over beyond the edge of the flat spot and then once there, it corners naturally. The problem being the transition point at the edge of that flat spot means the tyre doesn't have a smooth radius so it kind of "hurries" itself up. You may be mistaking this for sliding, or it is contributing to it sliding.

I can recommend Bridgestone BT015's for a good road tyre - sticky and wears pretty good. Bt016's if you want to push it and trackday it. Won't last as long (particularly on the front), but they are the best tyres I've ever come across for multi purpose hard road and trackday tyres.

Edit: Here's my 016 after a ride through the Buller Gorge in the west coast of New Zealand - a biker's paradise.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[billd766]

If you want Pirellis try Show Pow up on On nut Soi 42.

I am getting a pair of Pirelli Angel GTs for mu Honda CB 400 this week.

Show Pow (Charlie 0890038886) On Nut Email [email protected]

[WingNut]

Thanks everyone. I was able to get in touch with my friend about the tires he bought. His are the Michelin Pilot Street model and he bought them from www.29tire.com

But I realized he only has a smaller 150cc bike. The Michelin Pilot Street also come in a radial model, which I think is recommended for bikes of 250cc and up. So I don't think I could even put the regular Michelin Pilot Street tires on my bike as they are recommended for smaller bikes only. I think I would have to put on the radial version if I did go with this model. I looked on the 29tire.com site and they don't seem to have the radial model listed though. But the regular Michelin Pilot Street tires are listed on their site with prices as follows:

Front: (Michelin Pilot Street) 110/70-17 TL - 1,460 Baht
Rear: (Michelin Pilot Street) 140/70-17 TL - 1,840 Baht

I suspect, since the cost of these tires is quite low compared to other tires, that they aren't going to be that good, even if I am able to find the slightly more expensive radial model.

@KRS1: I read your write up on the IRC-IZ003 and they do really sound great. Another friend also had recommended those to me once before a long time ago. The IZ003 really are a track tire though from what I read. Yes, very sticky, but they wear really fast I heard and aren't so good on wet surfaces I assume? Also, how are they wearing on your bike in general now that you have been using them for a month or so?

29tire also offers them on their web site here:

http://29tire.com/product-th-939230-4959134-%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%81+irc+%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99+iz003+%28%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1%29+110+70+17,+140+70+17.html

Prices are as follows for front and read. So they are 5,000 Baht a set:

ยางนอก iz-003(ไม่ใช้ยางใน) ขนาด 110/70-17 เส้นละ 2100
ยางนอก iz-003(ไม่ใช้ยางใน) ขนาด 140/70-17 เส้นละ 2900

Truth is I don't ride that much and I don't really ride in the rain unless I get caught in a downpour. So even if these tires wear quick it won't be much of a problem. They will still probably last me a while and they aren't that expensive. So I can always buy another pair or switch to another tire if they wear out quickly. They also seem to be about 1/3 cheaper than the Pirelli Rosso 2, which you mentioned are 7,500 a pair.

@Gsxrnz: What you say is quite possibly correct about riding upright most of the time and not having that rounded transition from center to side of the tire. A friend of mine who is track rider mentioned the same possibility to me too a while ago. It is a scary feeling though when you lean and then start to feel the bike slide or wobble a bit as if it might go down. So far I have been lucky and have been able to pull the bike up in time to avoid a crash. That's why though I want to try and increase my level of safety in terms of my tires. I don't really ride that hard and don't want to end up on the ground because of using poor quality tires. Even though you are probably right about the issue with my stock tires, the truth is everyone knows they aren't a very good tire to begin with. So a change is definitely warranted either way. No point in trying to wear them in a bit more on the sides.

The Bridgestone tires you mention sound good. Particularly the BT016 model. But I don't know anything about them and haven't heard of anyone using them before in Thailand. The only ones I ever hear talked about are Pirelli, Michelin, and the IRC-IZ003.

Cheers...

[WingNut]

@Gsxrnz: By the way, any ideas on cost and availability of the Bridgestone BT016 tires in Thailand and where they are sold for comparison?

[Gsxrnz]

@Gsxrnz: By the way, any ideas on cost and availability of the Bridgestone BT016 tires in Thailand and where they are sold for comparison?

Sorry Wingnut, I don't have a sportsbike in Thailand, even though I've raced all my life and never had less than 3 motorbikes in my stable. So I wouldn't know where to buy them. Try googling - Bridgestone have a foothold here with car rubber so I'd assume their bike tyres will also be available.

From what you say I don't think the 016 would be suitable for you, but they have a whole range of tyres and I'm sure you'd find one that suits. I guess we all have a preferred brand, mine just happens to be Bridgestone. I like the 016 because the first time I used them I had a particularly good day on the track and I put it down to them. It may have just been what I had for breakfast that day, but..........

[WingNut]

Cheers Gsxrnz. I am still kind of leaning towards (no pun intended) the IRC-IZ003 tires. The price is right, I know where I can get them, and I am curious to see what it is like to ride on a really sticky track tire. As long as I am not riding in rain, they can't be bad on the street and should give me much better traction than I have now. And even if they wear down fast, I don't mind so much as I don't ride that much these days anyway. I imagine they will still be good for 6,000-8,000km at least before needing replacement. And if I don't like them I can always change them out again for Pirelli or Bridgestone later.

[KRS1]

Thanks everyone. I was able to get in touch with my friend about the tires he bought. His are the Michelin Pilot Street model and he bought them from www.29tire.com

But I realized he only has a smaller 150cc bike. The Michelin Pilot Street also come in a radial model, which I think is recommended for bikes of 250cc and up. So I don't think I could even put the regular Michelin Pilot Street tires on my bike as they are recommended for smaller bikes only. I think I would have to put on the radial version if I did go with this model. I looked on the 29tire.com site and they don't seem to have the radial model listed though. But the regular Michelin Pilot Street tires are listed on their site with prices as follows:

Front: (Michelin Pilot Street) 110/70-17 TL - 1,460 Baht

Rear: (Michelin Pilot Street) 140/70-17 TL - 1,840 Baht

I suspect, since the cost of these tires is quite low compared to other tires, that they aren't going to be that good, even if I am able to find the slightly more expensive radial model.

@KRS1: I read your write up on the IRC-IZ003 and they do really sound great. Another friend also had recommended those to me once before a long time ago. The IZ003 really are a track tire though from what I read. Yes, very sticky, but they wear really fast I heard and aren't so good on wet surfaces I assume? Also, how are they wearing on your bike in general now that you have been using them for a month or so?

29tire also offers them on their web site here:

http://29tire.com/product-th-939230-4959134-%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%81+irc+%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99+iz003+%28%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1%29+110+70+17,+140+70+17.html

Prices are as follows for front and read. So they are 5,000 Baht a set:

ยางนอก iz-003(ไม่ใช้ยางใน) ขนาด 110/70-17 เส้นละ 2100

ยางนอก iz-003(ไม่ใช้ยางใน) ขนาด 140/70-17 เส้นละ 2900

Truth is I don't ride that much and I don't really ride in the rain unless I get caught in a downpour. So even if these tires wear quick it won't be much of a problem. They will still probably last me a while and they aren't that expensive. So I can always buy another pair or switch to another tire if they wear out quickly. They also seem to be about 1/3 cheaper than the Pirelli Rosso 2, which you mentioned are 7,500 a pair.

@Gsxrnz: What you say is quite possibly correct about riding upright most of the time and not having that rounded transition from center to side of the tire. A friend of mine who is track rider mentioned the same possibility to me too a while ago. It is a scary feeling though when you lean and then start to feel the bike slide or wobble a bit as if it might go down. So far I have been lucky and have been able to pull the bike up in time to avoid a crash. That's why though I want to try and increase my level of safety in terms of my tires. I don't really ride that hard and don't want to end up on the ground because of using poor quality tires. Even though you are probably right about the issue with my stock tires, the truth is everyone knows they aren't a very good tire to begin with. So a change is definitely warranted either way. No point in trying to wear them in a bit more on the sides.

The Bridgestone tires you mention sound good. Particularly the BT016 model. But I don't know anything about them and haven't heard of anyone using them before in Thailand. The only ones I ever hear talked about are Pirelli, Michelin, and the IRC-IZ003.

Cheers...

I have about 3000 kilometers on them now and they are wearing fine, not too fast like i assumed they would. I think I can get 12k-14k off the back tire before it starts to get slippery. The Rosso 2 can get around 20k.

They are fine in the rain, there is the occasional wet paint stripe slip, but its nothing major and bites right back. Rosso 2 does the same thing, but it skips whereas the IZ003 slips.

But if you get them BEWARE, they are very race oriented tires, until you get use to them they are going to feel really weird, but then you will love them. I would inflate them to 27/31psi for the first week, then after that raise it to 30/34...reason for this is because they are a VERY fast turning tire...and you may want to slow them down until you know them better....when you get them installed they will probably have 45-60psi after installation to lock the bead, ride it for a few kilos then pull over and deflate...make sure they use glue around the bead during installation or else it will slow leak.

If you want something you can ride out the box id look into the Pirelli Sport Demons which are around the same price. There really isnt any reason to get the IZ003 unless you plan on riding lots and lots of curvy roads or planning to hit the track...these definately have a relearning curve.

[Gsxrnz]

As KRS1 says, be careful with your cornering if you're not used to a race profile tyre. The radius shape is quite different and the bike will want to fall in to a corner quicker than you are used to. They are also more suited to late apexing, so take a slightly wider entry into the bend. Otherwise if you take your traditional entry point you may find you apex too soon and have to correct it.

Even changing the size of the same tyre (say from a 190 to a 180 or 170) makes a big difference in handling purely because of the different radius.

Also, my advice is don't fit a track oriented tyre on the back and keep your old tyre on the front. The LAST thing you want is a rear tyre that's stickier than the front as that's a recipe for disaster. You always want the rear tyre to let go before the front tyre.

The second last thing you want is mismatching profiles.

[WingNut]

Many thanks KRS1 and Gsxrnz. Hahah, I am starting to get a bit confused on which tires to go with now. I will definitely change both tires. That is good advice. You are right, not a good idea at all to have mismatched tires I think.

As for the IZ003 they sound like a great tire, but perhaps not a good tire for me, my riding style, and the type of riding I do. It sounds like the wear and the traction in the rain wont be big issues, but maybe the tires are a bit too much for my riding level. Especially since I am just going around the streets in Bangkok most of the time. What really attracts me though is knowing that these tires will perform much better though than regular street tires. They will be much stickier and hold the road much better. That is a big draw for me. It would be great if the tires I end up putting on make me feel more in control and safer on the road when taking turns. So this is what has me still interested in these tires. I am wondering really how much of a learning/getting used to curve I would have to deal with after putting these tires on?

Yes, thanks, the Pirelli Sport Demons are another option for the same price per pair as the IZ003 tires it seems. I have really only heard the performance of the Pirelli Rosso 2 being talked about though. How do the Sport Demons compare to the Rosso 2 and what are the major differences? How do they compare overall? What advantages might the Rosso 2 have over the cheaper Sport Demons?

It would be nice to have a tire that is easy to ride right out of the box and which doesn't require a leaning curve to get used to, yet reduces slipping in the turns, but also increases performance, stickiness, and overall safety on the road.

I guess I am still a bit confused sadly on which would be the best tire for me. Cheers...

[ll2]

^

You are describing rosso2s.

If you are confused, pay 3 k more and get rosso2s as you cannot go wrong with them.

Ircs are for track and you need time to warm them up and you need to know what you are doing.

Used michelin sports too. But they are economy minded a little.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Gsxrnz]

Wingnut - when you say your tyre is slipping, can you describe what it's doing and what sort of speed/lean angle/road surface/riding position you're in at the time? Also, what are the tyre pressures?

Because from what you're saying about your riding ability and style, it really shouldn't be happening. I hope that doesn't sound condescending or anything, but even a Chinese no-name brand shouldn't slide under normal city driving conditions as you'd experience in BKK.

Is it possible that your rear wheel is not mounted straight? Or the chain is too tight, or the tyre is under/over inflated, or the rear suspension is faulty or badly set? Just investigating possibilities as a slide or a skip (on a good road surface) should only happen under heavy acceleration on the lean, or on a lean beyond say 25-30 degrees. If you aren't getting beyond 20 degree of lean, there may be something else wrong.

I know the flat spot we talked about earlier is contributing to poor handling but even this shouldn't promote a slip in its own right. Another possibility is that you're getting into new territory on your tyre surface because you're leaning more due to that flat spot tipping you over, and the unworn surface is just doing the traditional "new tyre" slide. Your tyre has 10,000 k's on it, so it's well weathered and the factory gloss will be gone - but if that piece of rubber has never met the road before it will only have 75% of the grip of it's specs, despite the age of the tyre.

[WingNut]

Gsxrnz, many thanks for your thoughts. You raise a lot of good questions. I haven't checked my tire pressure in a couple of months, which is maybe too long, but I always set them up with 30 in the back and 29 in the front. As for the back wheel, it is the original wheel and mount from the factory. So I don't know if it has changed. I had the bike serviced fairly recently when it hit 9,000km and the Honda technician tightened the chain a bit I think, but I didn't notice anything different from that. I also doubt I am leaning too far. I still got the chicken strips on the back tire. So I wouldn't say I lean that hard at all most of the time. I never can seem to quite figure out where the g-force breaking point is so I tend not to lean that hard as I am fearful in going down. But what you said a couple of times about the side of the tire still being too new makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, the best example I can give you was the other night. I am not sure how familiar you are with Bangkok roads, but if you come down Vibhavadi Rangsit Road coming from the Din Daeng direction and you take the left hand turn off at the Phaholyothin intersection by Chatuchak Park there is a very tight, almost hair pin turn to make that left. Since I usually ride at night, and the turn is pretty dark, I slow down a lot before I hit it since you cannot see the exit of this turn as you are entering into it. So I am usually going quite slow when I actually enter the turn and start to come out of it.

The other night, as I was coming out of the end of the turn, I had just started to accelerate a bit when all of a sudden I felt a bit of wobble. So I immediately stood the bike up as quick as I could, which then pushed me out towards the merging traffic lane, which I didn't want to do in case there was a car approaching, but I felt I had no choice to take that chance or I might have gone down. This wasn't a slip this time, but a wobble.

The reason it is important to take this turn tight though is that if you don't take it slow and lean enough into it then as you come out of the turn you enter the lane of the merging traffic as I had to do when the bike started to wobble a bit and you can easily get into an accident with merging traffic if it is moving fast. So this is why I try and stay tight and in my lane when I take that turn and not come out of it wide. If you know the turn this might make more sense, but that is the most recent event I can recall.

Maybe this doesn't have so much to do with the tires. I don't know. But a stickier tire might have held better to that tight turn I am thinking and not caused such a wobble in the back tire perhaps.

[WingNut]

I just watched a Pirelli tire video on Revzilla and it seems the Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa might be a better choice than the Pirelli Diable Rosso 2. The Corse seems to be a better mix of compounds.

Features:

Three zone ultra high performance tires

Delivers track performance on and off the track

Positioning of grooves optimized for use on road and racetrack

Profiles and structures set the new benchmark of the segment ensuring high support while leaning and fast stand up while accelerating out of the corner

Pirelli patented EPT (Enhanced Patch Technology) optimizes the contact patch for the best grip on the road and on the track

By adopting Enhanced Patch Technology (EPT), DIABLO ROSSO Corsa ensures quick warm-up and a consistent hi-performance level lap after lap together with excellent performance recovery after stop & go

Pure racetrack performance combined with the comfort and predictability you expect from a high-performance street tire

World Superbike development technology improves structure and compounding

Continues with the aggressive Rosso tread design

W speed rating for speeds of 168+ mph

[EBF]

Just a note - not checking your tyre pressures for a month is a big no no. At an absolute minimum, check them once a week. Daily is better but not entirely practical. Pressure has a huge impact on handling and general wear.

[Gsxrnz]

Wingnut - I can't explain the wobble as you have described it. Possibly a bad bit of road surface or something, and you over accelerated, who knows. Anyway, good luck with your getting some new tyres and no doubt they will enhance your riding experience.

Just a point on cornering as you described it - your exit point is largely controlled by your point of entry. If your exit point is pushing you wider than you like, enter the corner from a wider point to correct it. This is basically late apexing. You can maintain a higher speed, and exit the corner on a narrower angle at a higher speed. From your description you are slowing down too much, entering the corner at too acute an angle, and accelerating out.

Google it, there are lots of really good articles on cornering and you can learn a lot from them.

Cheers

[KRS1]

try adjusting your rear shock, in your tool kit there is a hook shaped tool and a separate extension sleeve you slip over it.

the hook goes around the bottom of the shock, access the shock on the bottom left side of the bike, youll have to make contact with the chain to access it.

once the tool is in the ridges of the shock, turn it towards the front of the bike 1 notch. The actual resting point can be seen on the right side of the shock.

go for a ride and test it, if it dont feel right return it back.

...and downshift before you enter the corner, not while your in it or about to enter it.

Edited November 4, 2013 by KRS1

[AndersM]

I just watched a Pirelli tire video on Revzilla and it seems the Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa might be a better choice than the Pirelli Diable Rosso 2. The Corse seems to be a better mix of compounds. Features: Three zone ultra high performance tires Delivers track performance on and off the track Positioning of grooves optimized for use on road and racetrack Profiles and structures set the new benchmark of the segment ensuring high support while leaning and fast stand up while accelerating out of the corner Pirelli patented EPT (Enhanced Patch Technology) optimizes the contact patch for the best grip on the road and on the track By adopting Enhanced Patch Technology (EPT), DIABLO ROSSO Corsa ensures quick warm-up and a consistent hi-performance level lap after lap together with excellent performance recovery after stop & go Pure racetrack performance combined with the comfort and predictability you expect from a high-performance street tire World Superbike development technology improves structure and compounding Continues with the aggressive Rosso tread design W speed rating for speeds of 168+ mph

I know a few guys that swear by the Bridgestone battle ax tires. Maybe worth a look. They all ride bigger bikes but a good tire should be good on any size bike.

[yankee99]

try adjusting your rear shock, in your tool kit there is a hook shaped tool and a separate extension sleeve you slip over it.

the hook goes around the bottom of the shock, access the shock on the bottom left side of the bike, youll have to make contact with the chain to access it.

once the tool is in the ridges of the shock, turn it towards the front of the bike 1 notch. The actual resting point can be seen on the right side of the shock.

go for a ride and test it, if it dont feel right return it back.

...and downshift before you enter the corner, not while your in it or about to enter it.

Bad advice to blindly adjust your shock. Especially when having issues in cornering.

[KRS1]

try adjusting your rear shock, in your tool kit there is a hook shaped tool and a separate extension sleeve you slip over it.

the hook goes around the bottom of the shock, access the shock on the bottom left side of the bike, youll have to make contact with the chain to access it.

once the tool is in the ridges of the shock, turn it towards the front of the bike 1 notch. The actual resting point can be seen on the right side of the shock.

go for a ride and test it, if it dont feel right return it back.

...and downshift before you enter the corner, not while your in it or about to enter it.

Bad advice to blindly adjust your shock. Especially when having issues in cornering.

we have the same bike, i adjusted mine and the cornering improved...but i dont know his weight, and his bike only has 10k on it so the forks would probably match up, where as my forks are shot.

plus, i said if it dont feel right - return it back.

[WingNut]

Sorry to have gone quiet on this thread for a few days. Was a bit busy. Anyway, thank you everyone for all your good feedback. I will probably buy a pair of the Pirelli Rosso 2 tires if I replace them. With the announcement of the new CBR650R I am thinking about buying one of those. Which means I may not want to dump anymore money into my CBR250R at this point. So I am putting this on hold for a little while until things develop more with the CBR650R.

For what it is worth, I am attaching a quick snap I took of my current back tire to show the condition of it after 10,000KM. It is the stock IRC tire that came on the bike.