Spy me, spy you, sa-bai Thailand

[webfact]

REGIONAL PERSPECTIVE
Spy me, spy you, sa-bai Thailand
Kavi Chongkittavorn

BANGKOK: -- Last week's revelation that the US embassies in Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Phnom Penh, Yangon and Bangkok nested spying facilities produced were different reactions.

Indonesia raised hell and fire while other Asean countries were more discreet. The most interesting was Thailand's attitude towards the whole affairs.

Senior officials played dumb as if nothing happened. Lt Gen Paradorn Pattanatabutr, Secretary General of National Security Council, did not think the US would use Thailand as a spying base. Teerat Tatanasevi, the government spokesman, said that there was no intelligence reports about the US spying bases. Better still no comments came from the Thai military and Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Thais did not want to say too much for good reasons.

It is an open secret within the intelligence and diplomatic community that Thailand was and has been the hub of spying bases of foreign intelligent agencies for decades. During the Cold War, Thailand was the bulwark against communism as the closest ally in the mainland Southeast Asia of the US. The country housed the region's largest information-gathering base for Washington. When the American troops pulled out from Thailand in 1976, one of the contentious points was the ownership and operation of Ramasun spying facilities in Udorn Air Force base. The government under prime minister Kukrit Pramoj rejected the US request to continue the use of the facilities beyond the July 1976, the deadline of all American troop withdrawal from Thailand.

In the world without internet, Thailand's location was ideal. It bordered communist countries in Indochina - dispatching spies across the border and gathering information through electronic devices was easy. During the Vietnam War followed by the Cambodian conflict, Thailand served as the center of intelligence gatherings from all countries around the world. Beyond spooking, these spy communities also engaging in recruiting, kidnapping and undermining each other's capacity in obtaining classified information.

All that has changed after the tragedy of September 11, 2001, the whole Western spying operation in Thailand, led by the US, has been upgraded and running focusing on anti-terrorism campaign. The Bush administration minced no words and identified Southeast Asia as the second front for terrorism. It was later disclosed that Thailand and other Southeast Asian countries were used by terrorists in the Sept 11 attacks to map out their plans.

The apprehensive of Hambali in August 2003 was the accumulative efforts of the US and Thai intelligence agencies working together to track down the Southeast chief of Al Quida terrorist group. That helped to explain why throughout the past decade, Thailand was muted over the surveillance and anti-terrorism campaigned-related activities from the US.

In mid-2005, as the US government was paying more attention to halt the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the spying operation intensified along the Thai-Myanmar border including North Korea's activities in Thailand and the region. The growing ties between Myanmar and North Korea before the current reform took place in 2011 alarmed the US and the West. With the assistance from Thailand, mobile and fixed spying facilities set up and manned by American and Australian intelligent officials to gather information and intercept electronic signals.

The evidence gathered by the tripartite surveillance operation succeeded in pressuring Myanmar to halt missile technology's exchanges with North Korea. Before the normalization of US-Myanmar relations, Nayphidaw also pledged to abandon its much published nuclear ambition. The interceptions of North Korean ships in high sea carried sanctioned products and weapons including its plane in December 2009 at Don Mueang were their joint spying efforts.

Foreign citizens or agencies interested in Thailand and its leaders understand full well that lots of information and data are available in open sources. Mining confidential information can be done through person-to-person communications and media outlets which regularly publicized classified information. For instance, sensitive economic forecasts and data, treated as secret with jail terms in other countries, could be accessed openly. In addition, defense related matters including details of specific arms procurements and strategies could found their way on front pages of local newspapers.

Before the WikiLeaks's disclosure of confidential information on Thailand passing through the US embassy, Thai officials were very fond of talking to American diplomats over lunch and good wines. They gave information and opinions in casual manners. After they found their names and rare views being quoted in the thousands of cables dispatched from Bangkok, they were shocked and embarrassed. Now the whole Thai bureaucrats have become more circumspect in conversations, if at all, with the American and other diplomats.

Thailand has benefitted from the US surveillance operation, both inside and outside the embassy, on the need to know and a case by case basis. So, it is better to keep quiet.


-- The Nation 2013-11-04

[Somtamnication]

"The apprehensive of Hambali". Arai wa?

Apprehension?

Is anything new in this article, or just a re-visit of old news?

[aussieinthailand]

SPYING, both political and cooperate, guy's it's been going on for millennia and more and will continue, But I do believe that governments spying on people for NO just cause is an invasion of privacy and is wrong this should never be allowed to happen again, also employers demanding passwords to facebook accounts should not be allowed as I feel it falls under a privacy issue not and employment condition.

[RickeyParkany]

Spy hub... ;-} rap.

[Jim walker]

Thais don’t need to spy because they know everything anyway so it won’t be a problem.

[NongKhaiKid]

Senior officials played dumb ! Now this is something Thai officialdom excels at par excellence only thing is they're not playing.

[Artisi]

Senior officials played dumb ! Now this is something Thai officialdom excels at par excellence only thing is they're not playing.

Played dumb, well that is really something new for a senior official, isn't it? And it was so easy, didn't ever have to try or ever pretend.

[winstonc]

SPYING, both political and cooperate, guy's it's been going on for millennia and more and will continue, But I do believe that governments spying on people for NO just cause is an invasion of privacy and is wrong this should never be allowed to happen again, also employers demanding passwords to facebook accounts should not be allowed as I feel it falls under a privacy issue not and employment condition.

asking for passwords for facebook.....never heard of that b4...wouldnt it be easy to say im over 17 and therefore dont do facebook.... i thought it was just for young kids...

[noitom]

Some f the investigative Thai journalists should do an analysis of foreign intelligence investments in Thailand.

[jaltsc]

"It is an open secret within the intelligence and diplomatic community that Thailand was and has been the hub of spying bases of foreign intelligent agencies for decades."

Conclusions drawn from U.S. spying operations in Thailand:

1. General belief that they are more advanced than any nation in the world and don't have to change anything.. Thus there is no motivation to improve services and technology beyond what the west had in 1885.

2. Even if they steal any technology from more advanced nations, nothing will work unless it can be run on a two pronged, non grounded outlet.

3. People in power are no threat since they are too busy spending time with their second, third and fourth wives (Known as mia nois).

4. When not spending time with their wives, their time is devoted to collecting "tea money", or as we call it in the west, bribes. Thus they have no time to run their government

5. If invaded, their first reaction will be to put up toll booths so they can collect as much money as posssible from the invaders.

6. To close down the government, just give the PM a gift certificate to Bloomingdale's. That should keep her out of the country for a few months.

7. Actually, there is no need to have a spying cell in Thailand, because any westerner who has lived there for more than one month would be happy to give you this same information for free...or at least for enough money to pay for a bar fine, which seems strange since the government says prostitution is illegal and doesn't exist in Thailand.

Edited November 4, 2013 by jaltsc

[bigbamboo]

I'm sure there is no spying in Thailand, just as there is no prostitution and no corruption etc.

This is the Land of Smiles where everyone and everything is just amazing.

[slipperylobster]

SPYING, both political and cooperate, guy's it's been going on for millennia and more and will continue, But I do believe that governments spying on people for NO just cause is an invasion of privacy and is wrong this should never be allowed to happen again, also employers demanding passwords to facebook accounts should not be allowed as I feel it falls under a privacy issue not and employment condition.

Right. The real idea of spying is not to get caught. But America is caught all the time. Must mean we are not spying. Huh?

[sgtsabai]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! Apparently the Aussies have been exposed doing the same in much of SE Asia. Utterly shocking I tell you. Uh huh and there were no black prison sites in Thailand either because the government said there weren't. And there are no 'initials' i.e. CIA, DEA, FBI, NSA etc. people running around up here in Udon either nor is there a building to house them. And of course we all know the Corporate Police State of Amerika never spies on it's own people either, no never. Ah, if you believe all that I have a bridge from California to Thailand I'd like to sell you, cheap.

[Suradit69]

"The apprehensive of Hambali". Arai wa?

Apprehension?

Is anything new in this article, or just a re-visit of old news?

It reads like it was translated by Google.

[HUAHIN62]

The spies today can be glad they don't live a 100 years ago as they would have been shot.

[JulesMad]

Read the news: The USA is spying on everyone everywhere... Friends, enemies, anyone....

As always these days, their 'excuse' is national security (of course, only their own...)

They are very good in the 'policy of fear'

[Nemesis7]

Read the news: The USA is spying on everyone everywhere... Friends, enemies, anyone....

As always these days, their 'excuse' is national security (of course, only their own...)

They are very good in the 'policy of fear'

So VERY TRUE

[MJP]

The US Government seems to waste a lot of American people's hard earned tax dollars.

[khunken]

For as long as I've visited & lived in Thailand there has been a facility called JUSMAGTHAI situated on Sathorn. JUSMAG stands for Joint US Thai Military Advisory Group. It looks like a bunker.

What it's activities are is fairly obvious and is rarely mentioned by any Thai government. No doubt what we are writing here is monitored too. Here's a middle finger to them:

[sgtsabai]

JUSMAGTHAI serves multiple purposes. I've never been, nor do I pretend to know what all it actually does. Getting in is like gettin in the US Embassy. It's mostly for retirees and 'co-ordination' with active duty. Visit their website. I didn't retire, quit after an eye opening tour in Vietnam courtesy Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, turning down a 10,000 USD re-enlisment bonus and a S/Sgt (E-6) stripe (I was already on the Staff list) they wouldn't give me unless I re-enlisted, that kinda' pissed me off. I know from a lot of retirees they help them a lot. I also know I wouldn't want to cross them and yea, I'm guessing somebody from there checks out this site from time to time. Just remember, all the 'bad guys' from the US aren't always bad guys.

[bangon04]

Read the news: The USA is spying on everyone everywhere... Friends, enemies, anyone....

As always these days, their 'excuse' is national security (of course, only their own...)

They are very good in the 'policy of fear'

The US scans for Intelligence in Thailand every now and then. So far they haven't found any worth worrying about....

[thatswhatuthought]

For as long as I've visited & lived in Thailand there has been a facility called JUSMAGTHAI situated on Sathorn. JUSMAG stands for Joint US Thai Military Advisory Group. It looks like a bunker.

What it's activities are is fairly obvious and is rarely mentioned by any Thai government. No doubt what we are writing here is monitored too. Here's a middle finger to them:

One right back at ya buddy. Am i gonna be detained as a spy as I'm a regular visitor to JUSMAG? Only fools speak of things they know nothing about.

]\

Edited November 4, 2013 by thatswhatuthought

[XINLOI]

Read the news: The USA is spying on everyone everywhere... Friends, enemies, anyone....

As always these days, their 'excuse' is national security (of course, only their own...)

They are very good in the 'policy of fear'

This exactly why Facebook is alive and well. This is also why they are pushing everyone, to get a facebook account, so they have free access to all your information. The Gov't and FB have been butt buddies since day one........lol

[RubbaJohnny]

Ask for Khvn James Blond ,hansum man,He copy Thai psyche

Shaken not stirred,while there is fish in the water,rice in the fields ,whisley in the jar why adapt to pathetic westerners.

Always amazed those who decry the locals as of inferior intelligence them with the land rights votes nice weather, yet they choose to live here while not enjoying the entertaining coups,fake monks balcony diving tournaments.

[Sunisalom]

I'll just re-write this, in order that you can understand it better:

Indonesia raised hell and fire while other Asean countries were more discreet. The most interesting was Thailand's attitude towards the whole affairs.

Senior officials played dumb, as if nothing had happened. Lt Gen Paradorn Pattanatabutr, Secretary General of National Security Council, did not think the US would use Thailand as a spying base. Teerat Tatanasevi, the government spokesman, said that there wereas no intelligence reports about the US spying bases. Better still, no comments came from neither the Thai military norand the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Thais did not want to say too much, and for good reason.

It is an open secret within intelligence, and the diplomatic community, that Thailand was, and has been, the hub of spying bases for foreign intelligent agencies for decades. During the Cold War, Thailand was the bulwark against communism as the closest ally in the mainland Southeast Asia of the US. The country housed the region's largest information-gathering base for Washington. When the American troops pulled out from Thailand in 1976, one of the contentious points was the ownership and operation of Ramasun spying facilities, at the Udorn Air Force base. The government, under prime minister Kukrit Pramoj, rejected the US request to continue the use of the facilities beyond the July 1976, the deadline of all American troop withdrawal from Thailand.

In the world without internet, Thailand's location was ideal. It bordered communist countries in Indochina - dispatching spies across the border. Gathering information through electronic devices was easy. During the Vietnam War and followed by the Cambodian conflict, Thailand served as a center of intelligence gatherings from many countries around the world. Beyond spooking, these spy communities also engaged in recruiting, kidnapping; undermining each other's capacity by obtaining classified information.

All that has changed after the tragedy of September 11, 2001. The whole Western spying operation in Thailand, led by the US, was upgraded to focus upon anti-terrorism campaigns. The Bush administration minced no words, and identified Southeast Asia as a possible second front of terrorism. It was later disclosed that Thailand, amongst other Southeast Asian countries, was used by terrorists to map out their plans for the Sept 11 attacks.

The apprehension of Hambali, in August 2003, was an accumulative effort of both the US and Thai intelligence agencies working together, in order to track down the Southeastern Chief of the Al Quida terrorist group. That helped to explain why Thailand had been muted in surveillance and anti-terrorism campaign-related activities by the US for the previous decade.

In mid-2005, as the US government was paying more attention to halt the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the spying operation intensified along the Thai-Myanmar border, including North Korea's activities in Thailand. The growing ties between Myanmar and North Korea, before the current reform took place in 2011, alarmed the US and the West. With the assistance of Thailand, mobile and fixed spying facilities were set up and manned by American and Australian intelligence officials to gather information, and to intercept electronic signals.

The evidence gathered by the tripartite surveillance operation succeeded in pressuring Myanmar to halt missile technology exchanges with North Korea. Before the normalization of US-Myanmar relations, Nayphidaw also pledged to abandon its much publicised nuclear ambition. The interceptions of North Korean ships, in high seas, car I stopped editing here - it's a joke of a write !!ried sanctioned products, and weapons, including its plane in December 2009 at Don Mueang were their joint spying efforts.

Foreign citizens or agencies interested in Thailand and its leaders understand full well that lots of information and data are available in open sources. Mining confidential information can be done through person-to-person communications and media outlets which regularly publicized classified information. For instance, sensitive economic forecasts and data, treated as secret with jail terms in other countries, could be accessed openly. In addition, defense related matters including details of specific arms procurements and strategies could found their way on front pages of local newspapers.

Before the WikiLeaks's disclosure of confidential information on Thailand passing through the US embassy, Thai officials were very fond of talking to American diplomats over lunch and good wines. They gave information and opinions in casual manners. After they found their names and rare views being quoted in the thousands of cables dispatched from Bangkok, they were shocked and embarrassed. Now the whole Thai bureaucrats have become more circumspect in conversations, if at all, with the American and other diplomats.

Thailand has benefitted from the US surveillance operation, both inside and outside the embassy, on the need to know and a case by case basis. So, it is better to keep quiet.

I've never seen such an ill-witted piece of writing. If I highlighted all the changes I made before writing 'I stopped here' then the whole piece would be 'RED'.

What ever happened to proofing editiors??

So so difficult to read, was this article.

[thatswhatuthought]

I agree that it was a poor piece of writing but why be so pedantic with the editing? Have you ever seen a decent piece of writing from The Nation? If this is the worst you've seen I would have to guess you don't read many articles shared on TV.

I'll just re-write this, in order that you can understand it better:

Indonesia raised hell and fire while other Asean countries were more discreet. The most interesting was Thailand's attitude towards the whole affairs.

Senior officials played dumb, as if nothing had happened. Lt Gen Paradorn Pattanatabutr, Secretary General of National Security Council, did not think the US would use Thailand as a spying base. Teerat Tatanasevi, the government spokesman, said that there wereas no intelligence reports about the US spying bases. Better still, no comments came from neither the Thai military norand the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Thais did not want to say too much, and for good reason.

It is an open secret within intelligence, and the diplomatic community, that Thailand was, and has been, the hub of spying bases for foreign intelligent agencies for decades. During the Cold War, Thailand was the bulwark against communism as the closest ally in the mainland Southeast Asia of the US. The country housed the region's largest information-gathering base for Washington. When the American troops pulled out from Thailand in 1976, one of the contentious points was the ownership and operation of Ramasun spying facilities, at the Udorn Air Force base. The government, under prime minister Kukrit Pramoj, rejected the US request to continue the use of the facilities beyond the July 1976, the deadline of all American troop withdrawal from Thailand.

In the world without internet, Thailand's location was ideal. It bordered communist countries in Indochina - dispatching spies across the border. Gathering information through electronic devices was easy. During the Vietnam War and followed by the Cambodian conflict, Thailand served as a center of intelligence gatherings from many countries around the world. Beyond spooking, these spy communities also engaged in recruiting, kidnapping; undermining each other's capacity by obtaining classified information.

All that has changed after the tragedy of September 11, 2001. The whole Western spying operation in Thailand, led by the US, was upgraded to focus upon anti-terrorism campaigns. The Bush administration minced no words, and identified Southeast Asia as a possible second front of terrorism. It was later disclosed that Thailand, amongst other Southeast Asian countries, was used by terrorists to map out their plans for the Sept 11 attacks.

The apprehension of Hambali, in August 2003, was an accumulative effort of both the US and Thai intelligence agencies working together, in order to track down the Southeastern Chief of the Al Quida terrorist group. That helped to explain why Thailand had been muted in surveillance and anti-terrorism campaign-related activities by the US for the previous decade.

In mid-2005, as the US government was paying more attention to halt the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the spying operation intensified along the Thai-Myanmar border, including North Korea's activities in Thailand. The growing ties between Myanmar and North Korea, before the current reform took place in 2011, alarmed the US and the West. With the assistance of Thailand, mobile and fixed spying facilities were set up and manned by American and Australian intelligence officials to gather information, and to intercept electronic signals.

The evidence gathered by the tripartite surveillance operation succeeded in pressuring Myanmar to halt missile technology exchanges with North Korea. Before the normalization of US-Myanmar relations, Nayphidaw also pledged to abandon its much publicised nuclear ambition. The interceptions of North Korean ships, in high seas, car I stopped editing here - it's a joke of a write !!ried sanctioned products, and weapons, including its plane in December 2009 at Don Mueang were their joint spying efforts.

Foreign citizens or agencies interested in Thailand and its leaders understand full well that lots of information and data are available in open sources. Mining confidential information can be done through person-to-person communications and media outlets which regularly publicized classified information. For instance, sensitive economic forecasts and data, treated as secret with jail terms in other countries, could be accessed openly. In addition, defense related matters including details of specific arms procurements and strategies could found their way on front pages of local newspapers.

Before the WikiLeaks's disclosure of confidential information on Thailand passing through the US embassy, Thai officials were very fond of talking to American diplomats over lunch and good wines. They gave information and opinions in casual manners. After they found their names and rare views being quoted in the thousands of cables dispatched from Bangkok, they were shocked and embarrassed. Now the whole Thai bureaucrats have become more circumspect in conversations, if at all, with the American and other diplomats.

Thailand has benefitted from the US surveillance operation, both inside and outside the embassy, on the need to know and a case by case basis. So, it is better to keep quiet.

I've never seen such an ill-witted piece of writing. If I highlighted all the changes I made before writing 'I stopped here' then the whole piece would be 'RED'.

What ever happened to proofing editiors??

So so difficult to read, was this article.

Edited November 4, 2013 by thatswhatuthought

[KhunOr]

What ever happened to proofing editiors??

Seems we all make mistakes.

[Thai at Heart]

If they admit anything, then they have to explain to the Chinese what exactly is going on here.

[thatswhatuthought]

What ever happened to proofing editiors??

Seems we all make mistakes.

hahaha. I guess with all the edits he had to make he forgot proofread his own writing.