Miss Pronunciation of Pattaya

[thailiketoo]

Never realized an American we rolled our "r's" which was implied. Can't roll my r's properly in Thai or Spanish.

Maybe calling it a roll was incorrect, but it's a lot different than the soft British "r". To illustrate this point, consider the way an Englishman pronounces "car" compared to an American.

Even the "new" is pronounced differently by an American - point being there isn't just one way to say New York as the other poster had suggested.

The best example, besides Pattaya, that I can think of to illustrate variance in City name pronunciation would be "New Orleans". How many ways do you hear that spoken?

There are a variety of Thai accents in Thailand. They all pronounce Pattaya the same way. There are a variety of English teachers in America they all teach how to say New York and New Orleans in the same way.

There is one correct way to pronounce New York and New Orleans and Pattaya. Sure you can find people with a dialect or accent that pronounce it differently.

There are still a few people left in New Orleans who speak Creole (Patois) or Cajun. It is from France.

They don't pronounce many French words correctly as any Frenchman will tell you. They don't pronounce many English words correctly either. Up to them.

The guiding rule is, when speaking English follow English rules of pronunciation. When speaking Thai follow Thai rules of Thai pronunciation.

How many native languages are spoken in Pattaya? One. Thai. How many native languages are spoken in New Orleans? At least three. So it is not a valid comparison.

Edited March 2, 2014 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

I have asked 36 Thai language instructors of many different nationalities and they all said there was only one correct way to pronounce Pattaya. Language pronunciation does not depend on where you are from.

Language pronunciation depends on the language you are trying to pronounce.

I realize there are many ways to pronounce Pattaya. There is however only one correct way. Pattaya does not have two accepted pronunciations like Germany and Deutschland. Because you speak English does not give you a license to mispronounce every word in another language because it feels better.

No skin of my nose if you want to pronounce it wrong. Thais don't think are very bright anyway, so it is no surprise to them either.

You contacted 36 Thai Language instructors. You've been a very busy lad. Why didn't you make it a round 40? Why stop at 36?

You make incorrect analogies to try to back up your point and fail, so now you tell us you've contacted 36 Thai language instructors.

Let's just agree that you're wrong and move on.

How many native languages Pattaya? One. How many native languages New Orleans? Three.

Your analogy, New Orleans and Pattaya is not the same .

I have more than 36 Thai languages teachers on my facebook page and they all use Line chat.

I have access to more than a hundred daily. High tech Thailand you know. Everybody is always using Line chat even when on a date or eating dinner.

Edited March 2, 2014 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

There are a variety of Thai accents in Thailand. They all pronounce Pattaya the same way. There are a variety of English teachers in America they all teach how to say New York and New Orleans in the same way.

There is one correct way to pronounce New York and New Orleans and Pattaya. Sure you can find people with a dialect or accent that pronounce it differently.

There are still a few people left in New Orleans who speak Creole (Patois) or Cajun. It is from France.

They don't pronounce many French words correctly as any Frenchman will tell you. They don't pronounce many English words correctly either. Up to them.

The guiding rule is, when speaking English follow English rules of pronunciation. When speaking Thai follow Thai rules of Thai pronunciation.

How many native languages are spoken in Pattaya? One. Thai. How many native languages are spoken in New Orleans? At least three. So it is not a valid comparison.

This is all wrong, but I'm not going to go over every point again as they've been made clearly in other posts above. If you disagreed with my points, you should have countered above when they were made.

If you hadn't have been so busy contacting 36 Thai language instructors you may have had the time to actually read my posts.

Let's move on.....

What's wrong? Or is changing the subject your way of admitting error?

[tropo]

What's wrong? Or is changing the subject your way of admitting error?

We're not discussing local languages and the way locals pronounce words. We're discussing the way foreigners choose to pronounce Pattaya.

Different foreigners choose to pronounce Pattaya in the best fit for their own tongues.

This is called communication. There is no correct or incorrect way for a foreigner to pronounce Pattaya.

New York and New Orleans are pronounced differently by different nationalities. My way is also correct but probably varies from yours, (not knowing where you come from).

Why are these concepts so hard for you to grasp?

I heard the American DJ on FM 103 pronouncing Pattaya the way I do. He made a choice, just as I do. If he slowed down to pronounce Pattaya the way Thais do, it would have sounded wrong.

The thing is most of us know the pure Thai way of saying it, but choose not to say it that way.

Relax and stop tying to correct everyone. Language scholars and professors no longer dictate how people speak.

Obviously you like to stay in touch with language scholars, so I understand why you have an inflexible attitude to these matters, but you're wasting your time. In these days of internet communication and world travel, things are no longer black and white.

[thailiketoo]

What's wrong? Or is changing the subject your way of admitting error?

We're not discussing local languages and the way locals pronounce words. We're discussing the way foreigners choose to pronounce Pattaya.

Different foreigners choose to pronounce Pattaya in the best fit for their own tongues.

This is called communication. There is no correct or incorrect way for a foreigner to pronounce Pattaya.

New York and New Orleans are pronounced differently by different nationalities. My way is also correct but probably varies from yours, (not knowing where you come from).

Why are these concepts so hard for you to grasp?

I heard the American DJ on FM 103 pronouncing Pattaya the way I do. He made a choice, just as I do. If he slowed down to pronounce Pattaya the way Thais do, it would have sounded wrong.

The thing is most of us know the pure Thai way of saying it, but choose not to say it that way.

Relax and stop tying to correct everyone. Language scholars and professors no longer dictate how people speak.

Obviously you like to stay in touch with language scholars, so I understand why you have an inflexible attitude to these matters, but you're wasting your time. In these days of internet communication and world travel, things are no longer black and white.

“People’s views of a person are shaped by the way they perceive him to speak” – Kofi K. Saah,

Tropo posted, "The best example, besides Pattaya, that I can think of to illustrate variance in City name pronunciation would be "New Orleans"."

What is difficult to believe is you know how to pronounce Pattaya and choose not to.

If I wanted to visit Kai runs where would I go? If I wanted to visit Kenz where would I go? If I wanted to visit Cairns where would I go?

Perhaps there are reasons for wanting Thai people to think you are a "Goober."

Edited March 2, 2014 by thailiketoo

[HooHaa]

Same people who go to Foo-khet for their holidays I guess.

or co-pan-yang

[tropo]

What is difficult to believe is you know how to pronounce Pattaya and choose not to.

Tropo and the majority of foreigners who live here don't pronounce Pattaya the way Thais do AND they know the "proper" Thai way. That includes foreigner public speakers here.

The reasons why have been well covered already, but you were probably too busy talking to your 36 Thai language instructors to read any of it. You could have saved yourself the trouble because the correct Thai way to say Pattaya was never up for debate here.

The only thing difficult to believe is that you just don't get it.

[thailiketoo]

What is difficult to believe is you know how to pronounce Pattaya and choose not to.

Tropo and the majority of foreigners who live here don't pronounce Pattaya the way Thais do AND they know the "proper" Thai way. That includes foreigner public speakers here.

The reasons why have been well covered already, but you were probably too busy talking to your 36 Thai language instructors to read any of it. You could have saved yourself the trouble because the correct Thai way to say Pattaya was never up for debate here.

The only thing difficult to believe is that you just don't get it.

I lived in Pattaya for four years in it's heyday. I thought then that the reason Farang pronounced Pattaya incorrectly was because they were goobers or noobs. A person knowing how to pronounce Pattaya and deliberately choosing to mispronounce it never occurred to me. It would also never occur to me to be Illeistic in normal conversation.

Another possibility would be that they had no respect for the culture and pronounced it incorrectly as a dig at the locals.

I live in Thailand and as a point of respect to Thai people I try and pronounce their language correctly. I find offensive if one knows better and does not.

Edited March 2, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Jackson86]

Me from singapore. I pronounce ' pa-ta-yaa '.

[thailiketoo]

Me from singapore. I pronounce ' pa-ta-yaa '.

Me too pa ta yaa.

[Jackson86]

Me from singapore. I pronounce ' pa-ta-yaa '.

Me too pa ta yaa.

Hey thanks. Only farangs pronounce ' patty ya ' I think.

[ThaiBob]

I get frustrated when supposedly educated foreigners in public positions (where they can lead by example), then take the easy way out and make zero attempt at pronouncing the simplest of Thai words. There is only one way to pronounce Pattaya if you are Thai and you learned that in school. We are not talking accents or regional dialects. For the rest of us peons, I am much more sympathetic, struggling with even an official transliteration system (RTGS) that leaves much to be desired.

[tropo]

What is difficult to believe is you know how to pronounce Pattaya and choose not to.

Tropo and the majority of foreigners who live here don't pronounce Pattaya the way Thais do AND they know the "proper" Thai way. That includes foreigner public speakers here.

The reasons why have been well covered already, but you were probably too busy talking to your 36 Thai language instructors to read any of it. You could have saved yourself the trouble because the correct Thai way to say Pattaya was never up for debate here.

The only thing difficult to believe is that you just don't get it.

I lived in Pattaya for four years in it's heyday. I thought then that the reason Farang pronounced Pattaya incorrectly was because they were goobers or noobs. A person knowing how to pronounce Pattaya and deliberately choosing to mispronounce it never occurred to me. It would also never occur to me to be Illeistic in normal conversation.

Another possibility would be that they had no respect for the culture and pronounced it incorrectly as a dig at the locals.

I live in Thailand and as a point of respect to Thai people I try and pronounce their language correctly. I find offensive if one knows better and does not.

LOL, now you think people who pronounce it differently are having a dig a locals or not respecting Thais?

You're so out of touch with reality it's hard to believe you can get by in daily life.

Edited March 2, 2014 by tropo

[thailiketoo]

Tropo and the majority of foreigners who live here don't pronounce Pattaya the way Thais do AND they know the "proper" Thai way. That includes foreigner public speakers here.

The reasons why have been well covered already, but you were probably too busy talking to your 36 Thai language instructors to read any of it. You could have saved yourself the trouble because the correct Thai way to say Pattaya was never up for debate here.

The only thing difficult to believe is that you just don't get it.

I lived in Pattaya for four years in it's heyday. I thought then that the reason Farang pronounced Pattaya incorrectly was because they were goobers or noobs. A person knowing how to pronounce Pattaya and deliberately choosing to mispronounce it never occurred to me. It would also never occur to me to be Illeistic in normal conversation.

Another possibility would be that they had no respect for the culture and pronounced it incorrectly as a dig at the locals.

I live in Thailand and as a point of respect to Thai people I try and pronounce their language correctly. I find offensive if one knows better and does not.

LOL, now you think people who pronounce it differently are having a dig a locals or not respecting Thais?

You're so out of touch with reality it's hard to believe you can get by in daily life.

I didn't say that. I said people (like you) who know how to pronounce Pattaya but mispronounce it on purpose I find offensive. Why is it that one would know the correct way but pronounce Pattaya the wrong way?

A. My culture is superior to Thai culture so I'll mispronounce Thai words to make it obvious I won't stoop to learning Thai.

B. I pronounce so many English words incorrectly that to be consistent I'll pronounce Thai words wrong also?

C. None of the people I consider important pronounce it correctly and I don't want to be different.

D. The ex pat crowd in Pattaya are such excellent fellows that I do everything they do.

[besth]

Have you ever read the signs on the way from Bangkok? Even those are not written consistently

[ThaiBob]

Have you ever read the signs on the way from Bangkok? Even those are not written consistently

Yes, I'm sure you meant the different transliterations, the Thai of course is always the same.

[tropo]

I didn't say that. I said people (like you) who know how to pronounce Pattaya but mispronounce it on purpose I find offensive. Why is it that one would know the correct way but pronounce Pattaya the wrong way?

I find grammar, spelling and pronunciation Nazis offensive, so it runs both ways.

The reason why most of us pronounce Pattaya differently to native Thais was explained in depth already. There's no need to go over that again. You really should pay attention instead of grasping at silly straws.

[thailiketoo]

I didn't say that. I said people (like you) who know how to pronounce Pattaya but mispronounce it on purpose I find offensive. Why is it that one would know the correct way but pronounce Pattaya the wrong way?

I find grammar, spelling and pronunciation Nazis offensive, so it runs both ways.

The reason why most of us pronounce Pattaya differently to native Thais was explained in depth already. There's no need to go over that again. You really should pay attention instead of grasping at silly straws.

You wrote, "I find grammar, spelling and pronunciation Nazis offensive." I believe that applies to posting on internet forums and not real life. I doubt you would tell a Thai teacher that he was a grammar, spelling and pronunciation nazi when that is what he is getting paid to do. My Thai teacher told me to pronounce ice cream, "I keem" if I wanted to be understood in Thailand.

You know how to pronounce Pattaya in Pattaya in real life but pronounce it wrong because?

It's my recollection you said it is more important to talk like your Farang friends than speak correct Thai.

I think you said something like, speaking Thai correctly sounds funny and you would rather pronounce Pattaya incorrectly because some other non Thai speaking friends pronounce it that way.

Fell free to let me know if my memory is not correct.

[HooHaa]

wow, didn't somebody go and open up a whole can of whogivesashit.

[tropo]

I didn't say that. I said people (like you) who know how to pronounce Pattaya but mispronounce it on purpose I find offensive. Why is it that one would know the correct way but pronounce Pattaya the wrong way?

I find grammar, spelling and pronunciation Nazis offensive, so it runs both ways.

The reason why most of us pronounce Pattaya differently to native Thais was explained in depth already. There's no need to go over that again. You really should pay attention instead of grasping at silly straws.

You wrote, "I find grammar, spelling and pronunciation Nazis offensive." I believe that applies to posting on internet forums and not real life. I doubt you would tell a Thai teacher that he was a grammar, spelling and pronunciation nazi when that is what he is getting paid to do. My Thai teacher told me to pronounce ice cream, "I keem" if I wanted to be understood in Thailand.

You know how to pronounce Pattaya in Pattaya in real life but pronounce it wrong because?

It's my recollection you said it is more important to talk like your Farang friends than speak correct Thai.

I think you said something like, speaking Thai correctly sounds funny and you would rather pronounce Pattaya incorrectly because some other non Thai speaking friends pronounce it that way.

Fell free to let me know if my memory is not correct.

You're living in the dark ages where language professors used to (try to) rule the written and spoken language.

Internet forums are real life. It's the new reality. Don't bet I wouldn't tell a grammar Nazi where to go in real life. I'd certainly tell you everything I'm saying there to your face if we met. I'm not hiding at all.

You're just coming across as yet another Farang full of themselves over their Thai language speaking skills. I don't speak Thai, I don't study Thai. That's one of the reasons why I live in Pattaya - It's not a necessity. I choose to study other languages instead.

I don't pronounce Pattaya wrong, that's the point you don't grasp. I pronounce it differently from the natives, but it's still correct. It's a very common pronunciation spoken by a large percentage of foreign residents. Everyone understands it including the local Thais. I'd say you'd be one of the very few people taking offense, if not the only one. If things this petty get you upset, then you're far too sensitive for your own good.

Maybe you don't have a bad memory, but you do have a problem comprehending what you read.

[thailiketoo]

I didn't say that. I said people (like you) who know how to pronounce Pattaya but mispronounce it on purpose I find offensive. Why is it that one would know the correct way but pronounce Pattaya the wrong way?

I find grammar, spelling and pronunciation Nazis offensive, so it runs both ways.

The reason why most of us pronounce Pattaya differently to native Thais was explained in depth already. There's no need to go over that again. You really should pay attention instead of grasping at silly straws.

You wrote, "I find grammar, spelling and pronunciation Nazis offensive." I believe that applies to posting on internet forums and not real life. I doubt you would tell a Thai teacher that he was a grammar, spelling and pronunciation nazi when that is what he is getting paid to do. My Thai teacher told me to pronounce ice cream, "I keem" if I wanted to be understood in Thailand.

You know how to pronounce Pattaya in Pattaya in real life but pronounce it wrong because?

It's my recollection you said it is more important to talk like your Farang friends than speak correct Thai.

I think you said something like, speaking Thai correctly sounds funny and you would rather pronounce Pattaya incorrectly because some other non Thai speaking friends pronounce it that way.

Fell free to let me know if my memory is not correct.

You're living in the dark ages where language professors used to (try to) rule the written and spoken language.

Internet forums are real life. It's the new reality. Don't bet I wouldn't tell a grammar Nazi where to go in real life. I'd certainly tell you everything I'm saying there to your face if we met. I'm not hiding at all.

You're just coming across as yet another Farang full of themselves over their Thai language speaking skills. I don't speak Thai, I don't study Thai. That's one of the reasons why I live in Pattaya - It's not a necessity. I choose to study other languages instead.

I don't pronounce Pattaya wrong, that's the point you don't grasp. I pronounce it differently from the natives, but it's still correct. It's a very common pronunciation spoken by a large percentage of foreign residents. Everyone understands it including the local Thais. I'd say you'd be one of the very few people taking offense, if not the only one. If things this petty get you upset, then you're far too sensitive for your own good.

Maybe you don't have a bad memory, but you do have a problem comprehending what you read.

You wrote, "You're living in the dark ages where language professors used to (try to) rule the written and spoken language."

Language professors teach languages now and Language professors taught languages 1000 years ago. Nothing has changed.

You wrote, "I don't pronounce Pattaya wrong, that's the point you don't grasp. I pronounce it differently from the natives, but it's still correct."

The Thais determine the correct pronunciation of place names in Thailand not Farang. I may say

"Pat tie a" or "Briz bane." But the correct pronunciation is Pat ta ya and Brisbin.

But here we have the age old TV argument. The boys in the pub are brighter and more authoritative than university scholars. The boys in the pub can pronounce anything any way they want and be darned what books or colleges say is correct.

I came to Thailand 40 years and my employer paid for me to learn Thai. He said I would be useless in Thailand unless I spoke Thai. I know the boys in the pub don't agree.

Do a lot of folks go to Australia and tell Aussies how to pronounce Melbourne?

Edited March 3, 2014 by thailiketoo

[tropo]

You wrote, "You're living in the dark ages where language professors used to (try to) rule the written and spoken language."

Language professors teach languages now and Language professors taught languages 1000 years ago. Nothing has changed.

You wrote, "I don't pronounce Pattaya wrong, that's the point you don't grasp. I pronounce it differently from the natives, but it's still correct."

The Thais determine the correct pronunciation of place names in Thailand not Farang. I may say

"Pat tie a" or "Briz bane." But the correct pronunciation is Pat ta ya and Brisbin.

But here we have the age old TV argument. The boys in the pub are brighter and more authoritative than university scholars. The boys in the pub can pronounce anything any way they want and be darned what books or colleges say is correct.

I came to Thailand 40 years and my employer paid for me to learn Thai. He said I would be useless in Thailand unless I spoke Thai. I know the boys in the pub don't agree.

Do a lot of folks go to Australia and tell Aussies how to pronounce Melbourne?

LOL, your comparisons serve well to strengthen my position - thanks! You're a champ!

Melbourne and Brisbane can be pronounced different ways - all correct. There's a Brisbane in California and a Melbourne in Florida, pronounced quite differently to the same cities in Australia.

I can guarantee that if an American visits Brisbane or Melbourne in Australia they won't be offending anyone by using their native pronunciations of these two cities, just as they won't be offended if I pronounce their fine cities with an Australian accent.

You really are clueless. You've also shown that you have an inner resentment to Pattaya expats, as is evidenced by your referral to "boys in the pub".. what is this really about? Not all Pattaya expats hang out in pubs - I never do.

Bear in mind when trying to come up with more comparisons that some words (City names) have more possible variations than others. Pattaya is one of them.

Edited March 4, 2014 by tropo

[thailiketoo]

You wrote, "You're living in the dark ages where language professors used to (try to) rule the written and spoken language."

Language professors teach languages now and Language professors taught languages 1000 years ago. Nothing has changed.

You wrote, "I don't pronounce Pattaya wrong, that's the point you don't grasp. I pronounce it differently from the natives, but it's still correct."

The Thais determine the correct pronunciation of place names in Thailand not Farang. I may say

"Pat tie a" or "Briz bane." But the correct pronunciation is Pat ta ya and Brisbin.

But here we have the age old TV argument. The boys in the pub are brighter and more authoritative than university scholars. The boys in the pub can pronounce anything any way they want and be darned what books or colleges say is correct.

I came to Thailand 40 years and my employer paid for me to learn Thai. He said I would be useless in Thailand unless I spoke Thai. I know the boys in the pub don't agree.

Do a lot of folks go to Australia and tell Aussies how to pronounce Melbourne?

LOL, your comparisons serve well to strengthen my position - thanks! You're a champ!

Melbourne and Brisbane can be pronounced different ways - all correct. There's a Brisbane in California and a Melbourne in Florida, pronounced quite differently to the same cities in Australia.

I can guarantee that if an American visits Brisbane or Melbourne in Australia they won't be offending anyone by using their native pronunciations of these two cities, just as they won't be offended if I pronounce their fine cities with an Australian accent.

You really are clueless. You've also shown that you have an inner resentment to Pattaya expats, as is evidenced by your referral to "boys in the pub".. what is this really about? Not all Pattaya expats hang out in pubs - I never do.

What is the correct way of pronouncing Melbourne and Brisbane in Australia?

What is the correct way of pronouncing Pattaya in Thailand?

http://www.forvo.com/word/pattaya/

[tropo]

As usual you're asking the wrong questions:

You should be asking: How does and Australian pronounce the city name? How does an American pronounce the city name?

How does a local pronounce Pattaya? How does an American pronounce Pattaya? How does a Brit pronounce Pattaya etc etc.

.. and so on and so forth for every city name in the world.

I'm done.

Have a nice day in Pat-e-ya and give my regards to Miss Pronunciation, Mr Spelling and Mrs Grammar. .. and your 36 Thai language instructors.

[hanno]

Amazing: 5 pages on, what to me, is a very simple topic.......

[tropo]

Amazing: 5 pages on, what to me, is a very simple topic.......

Yes, that was a surprise.

[thailiketoo]

As usual you're asking the wrong questions:

You should be asking: How does and Australian pronounce the city name? How does an American pronounce the city name?

How does a local pronounce Pattaya? How does an American pronounce Pattaya? How does a Brit pronounce Pattaya etc etc.

.. and so on and so forth for every city name in the world.

I'm done.

Have a nice day in Pat-e-ya and give my regards to Miss Pronunciation, Mr Spelling and Mrs Grammar. .. and your 36 Thai language instructors.

You wrote, "How does a local pronounce Pattaya? How does an American pronounce Pattaya? How does a Brit pronounce Pattaya etc etc."

The answer is, some pronounce it correctly and some pronounce it incorrectly.

Words are means of communication. There are correct and incorrect ways of pronouncing them dependent on speakers/authorities in the language spoken. I pronounce words differently depending on the country I am in. "Schedule" I would say one way in America and another way in Britain for ease of communication. Pattaya is not a word like schedule. It only has one correct way to pronounce it.

Glad to be of help.

Edited March 4, 2014 by thailiketoo

[tropo]

Words are means of communication.

If you actually believed that we wouldn't be having this conversation. For most of us they are a means of communications, but for you they are a source for endless debate and worthless discussion in your world of black and white.

The problem is you're rather useless at debate and making any valid points despite your claim you're educated and hang out with educated people.

Enough already.

[thailiketoo]

Words are means of communication.

If you actually believed that we wouldn't be having this conversation. For most of us they are a means of communications, but for you they are a source for endless debate and worthless discussion in your world of black and white.

The problem is you're rather useless at debate and making any valid points despite your claim you're educated and hang out with educated people.

Enough already.

I had a young student in a class who spoke perfect French. However, when called upon to speak she stuttered and hesitated and mispronounced words. After class, alone I asked the student why.

So Mr, tropo, yu no how ta say Pattayha. Why yu no pronouncit righjt? Are you afraid the other expats will think you too smart?

[tropo]

I had a young student in a class who spoke perfect French. However, when called upon to speak she stuttered and hesitated and mispronounced words. After class, alone I asked the student why.

So Mr, tropo, yu no how ta say Pattayha. Why yu no pronouncit righjt? Are you afraid the other expats will think you too smart?

Now I get it - you're a teacher. If I'd known that at the start I wouldn't have bothered. There's nothing worse than trying to argue with teachers as they know it all. (and by all accounts you're a lousy one too)