Senate may kill Thai amnesty bill

[webfact]

Senate may kill amnesty bill
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill spread across the country yesterday, as a diverse group of people and organisations joined a nationwide campaign against a bill that would absolve all law violators involved in political conflicts since 2004. That would include politicians convicted of corruption and serious criminal offences.

Given the rising opposition to the bill - rushed through the House of Representatives last Friday - most senators are now likely to vote against it goes to the Uppher House, Senator Paiboon Nititawan said yesterday.

The 149-member Senate is scheduled to begin its reading of the bill on Monday.

Paiboon, who claims to have sounded out many senators, estimates that as many as 90 senators are likely vote against the bill. He said 60 of them had "shown their intention to oppose the bill from the very beginning" and that 30 others agreed to "vote for the dignity of the Senate by rejecting the bill".

He said the number could exceed 100 if public opposition against the bill remains strong.

If the bill is passed by the Senate and becomes law, it would pardon all crimes related to politics and some corruption cases committed between 2004 and 2013.

Thousands of people took to the streets in Bangkok yesterday, joining a march led by the opposition Democrat Party along the politically significant Rajdamnoen Avenue, while a lunch-break rally attracted a large crowd of mostly businesspeople and office workers on Silom Road in the heart of the capital's business district.

Similar protests were held in many other provinces, including Nakhon Si Thammarat, Songkhla, Khon Kaen, Ranong, Phuket, Phang-nga, Yala and Phitsanulok.

Protest leaders of the Democrat-led rally yesterday decided to move their protest site from Samsen Railway Station to the Democracy Monument, sources said.

The large number of people who joined the rally was beyond expectations, a Democrat source said. The large number of protesters at Democracy Monument will also make the authorities have second thoughts about taking any action.

Officials gave contrasting information yesterday as to whether Democracy Monument was under the Internal Security Act, which was imposed by the Cabinet on October 9 and later extended to the end of this month. The National Security Council said it was, but Deputy Prime Minister Pracha Promnog, who is in charge of security affairs, said it was not.

The ISA has been in effect in eight sub-districts of the three Bangkok districts of Dusit, Phra Nakhon and Pom Prab Sattru Phrai.

Meanwhile, despite the loud opposition, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday continued supporting the bill. With tears in her eyes, Yingluck called on all sides to forgive and forget.

"We must lend our hands in helping the country. The first thing to be done is to forgive one another so we can move forward," she said. The prime minister made the call when members of 24 families whose relatives were killed during the 2010 political unrest came to meet her at Government House. This group expressed support for the government-backed amnesty bill.

The ruling Pheu Thai Party continued with its push for the law and remained confident that police would be able to keep the protesters under control. A Pheu Thai source said the strategy committee, led by party leader Charupong Ruangsuwan, had agreed yesterday to continue pushing for the blanket amnesty bill. Party MPs have been instructed to explain benefits of the law to their constituents, while some were tasked with lobbying senators to vote for the bill, the source said.

Many business organisations, as well as groups of academics, university students, social workers, medical professionals and lawyers expressed their opposition by issuing separate statements against the proposed law for blanket amnesty.

University presidents respond

The Council of University Presidents of Thailand issued a statement yesterday, signed by rectors from the country's 25 leading universities, expressing concern that the bill would create a bad precedent for Thai society. "There will be misunderstanding that corruption is not evil and the offenders may be absolved through an amnesty law. This bill will severely undermine Thailand's fight against corruption," the statement said.

A large group of anti-amnesty protesters at Urupong intersection, led by leaders of the yellow shirts, was considering whether to merge with the Democrat-led rally, another source said. Nitithorn Lamlua, a leader of the Urupong group, said yesterday that "in a day or two" the protesters would move out of the site, where they have been camping since early October, to an undisclosed location.

The business sector also came out against the contentious bill yesterday. And the sector would continue protesting over it, said Pramon Sutivong, chairman of the Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand (ACT). He said they would first seek cooperation from the Senate. If the Upper House passes the bill and a Constitutional Court judgement is sought, they would consider further action, he said.

The country's largest group of private businesses, the Joint Standing Committee on Commerce, Industry and Banking, issued a statement expressing concern. "We urge all parties to find a solution to end this as soon as possible, to maintain peace and confidence in the country's economic strengths and potential," it said.

The committee consists of the Federation of Thai Industries, the Thai Chamber of Commerce and the Thai Bankers Association.

In a separate statement, the Thai Chamber of Commerce said the bill - particularly Article 3, which extends amnesty to criminal offences and corruption cases, aside from those related to political demonstrations - is against international standards and would severely damage the country. The chamber urged politicians, the government and political parties to thoroughly consider a solution that honours mutual benefits.

"If the bill becomes law, it would affect the country's sovereign rating and credibility, which will hurt investment. Meanwhile, the bill contains content that may contradict the UN Convention Against Corruption, ratified by Thailand in 2011. This could damage confidence in the international community," it said.

The chamber, which comprises provincial trade chambers nationwide, warned that foreign investors could shift to other countries, which would exacerbate the weak economy and the tourism industry. Meanwhile, as corruption cases are included, the bill would deepen social division and ruin social values, it said.

In a related development, a survey of residents of 20 northeastern provinces - the main bastion of support for the ruling Pheu Thai Party - found that 46.6 per cent of the 1,190 eligible voters disagreed with a blanket amnesty, according to the results of Khon Kaen University's Isaan Poll released yesterday.

Another 31.6 per cent of the respondents said they agreed with a blanket amnesty, and the remaining 21.8 per cent said they were unsure.

A northeastern academic, Uaychai Watha, said yesterday that a recent survey of the radio audience in the region found that as many as 90 per cent of the respondents opposed blanket amnesty.


-- The Nation 2013-11-05

[NongKhaiKid]

Many TV posters have understandably expressed hopes that Mr. T's government will pull back from this potentially destructive bill but he has he has one foot in the door and is supposed to have said last week he doesn't know how to spell ' lose '.

The importance of face in Thai culture makes it difficult for the simplest of U-turns as even a ' for the good of the country ' excuse will be seen as defeat and that's not something he will be able to take. I am afraid that DL has staked too much on this and will happily let the country descend into all sorts of chaos no matter the disasterous effect on the people that he professes to love so much, well if they support and vote for him that is.

No matter what happens here he is above it all, he can sit in Dubai and enjoy his money, travel at will and deny stiff that it had anything to do with him.

[klubex99]

This is by far the best story to have been posted in the news section for the past year.

Come on people of Thailand, protest until your last breath and keep the heat turned up. Because if this bill fails, then Thaksin has nothing left.

[ramrod711]

I wonder if it is a revelation to the PM just how many millions of people detest her brother. To suggest that bringing her brother home, clear of all convictions, is helping the country is ridiculous and disgusting.

[Stradavarius37]

Many TV posters have understandably expressed hopes that Mr. T's government will pull back from this potentially destructive bill but he has he has one foot in the door and is supposed to have said last week he doesn't know how to spell ' lose '.

The importance of face in Thai culture makes it difficult for the simplest of U-turns as even a ' for the good of the country ' excuse will be seen as defeat and that's not something he will be able to take. I am afraid that DL has staked too much on this and will happily let the country descend into all sorts of chaos no matter the disasterous effect on the people that he professes to love so much, well if they support and vote for him that is.

No matter what happens here he is above it all, he can sit in Dubai and enjoy his money, travel at will and deny stiff that it had anything to do with him.

Difficult to U Turn? Do you actually follow Thailand news? Every day there is a politician or bureaucrat doing a U turn from a previous days statement or program proposal. Thailand is the HUB of U turns...lol

[NongKhaiKid]

Many TV posters have understandably expressed hopes that Mr. T's government will pull back from this potentially destructive bill but he has he has one foot in the door and is supposed to have said last week he doesn't know how to spell ' lose '.

The importance of face in Thai culture makes it difficult for the simplest of U-turns as even a ' for the good of the country ' excuse will be seen as defeat and that's not something he will be able to take. I am afraid that DL has staked too much on this and will happily let the country descend into all sorts of chaos no matter the disasterous effect on the people that he professes to love so much, well if they support and vote for him that is.

No matter what happens here he is above it all, he can sit in Dubai and enjoy his money, travel at will and deny stiff that it had anything to do with him.

Difficult to U Turn? Do you actually follow Thailand news? Every day there is a politician or bureaucrat doing a U turn from a previous days statement or program proposal. Thailand is the HUB of U turns...lol

Thaksin do a U-turn ? Do you follow the news ?

[klubex99]

They don't do U-turns so much as they just turn their back on something and never mention it again and hope it goes away. Then come out with something equally bizarre to take the spotlight.

Or they deny having anything to do with it... Look at the poster campaign forcing provinces to put up pro amnesty bill notices. It gets pulled and Yingers denies having anything to do with it... So please name the culprit then. It's your party that you are supposed to be head of.... don't you know who it was???

Thought not.

[Robby nz]

Has been reported elsewhere that Thaksin has used a phrase in Thai that is used in gambling that apparently translates to 'bet everything on this card or throw of the dice'

It seems however he has the back up position of calling a new election to try to get another 4 years but with reports of his support slipping, even in his heartland a win may not be assured.

[Gonzo the Face]

Many TV posters have understandably expressed hopes that Mr. T's government will pull back from this potentially destructive bill but he has he has one foot in the door and is supposed to have said last week he doesn't know how to spell ' lose '.

The importance of face in Thai culture makes it difficult for the simplest of U-turns as even a ' for the good of the country ' excuse will be seen as defeat and that's not something he will be able to take. I am afraid that DL has staked too much on this and will happily let the country descend into all sorts of chaos no matter the disasterous effect on the people that he professes to love so much, well if they support and vote for him that is.

No matter what happens here he is above it all, he can sit in Dubai and enjoy his money, travel at will and deny stiff that it had anything to do with him.

Difficult to U Turn? Do you actually follow Thailand news? Every day there is a politician or bureaucrat doing a U turn from a previous days statement or program proposal. Thailand is the HUB of U turns...lol

In Thai politics it is not a " U " Turn as they speak out of both sides of their mouths, meaning they are going both ways anyhow, depending on who they are addressing.

[GeorgeO]

We are at a point where, in any other country, there would be a vote of no confidence in the government, leading to dissolution of Parliament and a new General Election.

However, this is not any other country, and this stubborn, misguided government seems to be prepared to allow the country to sink into a period of extreme civil unrest, all for the sake of that cowardly fugitive criminal...!

He has indeed put everything on this "one throw of the dice", but I believe this will prove to be his biggest mistake ever. He will not see this Bill pushed through as there are too many of the Senators who are now running scared of what may transpire if it is passed.

The defeat of this Bill will also underline the huge gap that has emerged between Khun T and his government and the support that they previously enjoyed from their up-country faithful.

I suspect there may be a new political party emerging very soon comprising of those former PTP supporters who have now become disillusioned with the leadership. One can only hope that Jatuporn and the like don't force themselves into strong positions within such a party...!

Edited November 5, 2013 by GeorgeO

[Gonzo the Face]

We are at a point where, in any other country, there would be a vote of no confidence in the government, leading to dissolution of Parliament and a new General Election.

However, this is not any other country, and this stubborn, misguided government seems to be prepared to allow the country to sink into a period of extreme civil unrest, all for the sake of that cowardly fugitive criminal...!

He has indeed put everything on this "one throw of the dice", but I believe this will prove to be his biggest mistake ever. He will not see this Bill pushed through as there are too many of the Senators who are now running scared of what may transpire if it is passed.

The defeat of this Bill will also underline the huge gap that has emerged between Khun T and his government and the support that they previously enjoyed from their up-country faithful.

I suspect there may be a new political party emerging very soon comprising of those former PTP supporters who have now become disillusioned with the leadership. One can only hope that Jatuporn and the like don't force themselves into strong positions within such a party...!

I would not doubt for a minute that the foundation for such a new party is not already in place. After all how many times has this same group changed their skin already. From TRT to the current skin.

[coma]

As senaters of this country it is their duty to block this bill for the sake of peace and security. The people are speaking and politicians need to start listening.

[Local Drunk]

"Article 3, which extends amnesty to criminal offences and corruption cases, aside from those related to political demonstrations"

You've really got to wonder how many people this lets off the hook.

[Nickymaster]

Many TV posters have understandably expressed hopes that Mr. T's government will pull back from this potentially destructive bill but he has he has one foot in the door and is supposed to have said last week he doesn't know how to spell ' lose '.

The importance of face in Thai culture makes it difficult for the simplest of U-turns as even a ' for the good of the country ' excuse will be seen as defeat and that's not something he will be able to take. I am afraid that DL has staked too much on this and will happily let the country descend into all sorts of chaos no matter the disasterous effect on the people that he professes to love so much, well if they support and vote for him that is.

No matter what happens here he is above it all, he can sit in Dubai and enjoy his money, travel at will and deny stiff that it had anything to do with him.

Difficult to U Turn? Do you actually follow Thailand news? Every day there is a politician or bureaucrat doing a U turn from a previous days statement or program proposal. Thailand is the HUB of U turns...lol

Yes this twisting and turning will never end but things are not good for the Shins at the moment. The have created a huge mess, economically and politically.

Meanwhile....Chalerm has stated that he has a "substitue" amnesty bill covering only "victims" like protesters and TS, not "murderers".

Seriously!

[GentlemanJim]

"Article 3, which extends amnesty to criminal offences and corruption cases, aside from those related to political demonstrations"

You've really got to wonder how many people this lets off the hook.

It lets off as many rich and influential people as you care to imagine. In fact it is so obvious what PTP are intent on doing I am surprised it doesn't actually say in the bill that you need to have a minimum level of income and assets to qualify for amnesty.

[Artisi]

Many TV posters have understandably expressed hopes that Mr. T's government will pull back from this potentially destructive bill but he has he has one foot in the door and is supposed to have said last week he doesn't know how to spell ' lose '.

The importance of face in Thai culture makes it difficult for the simplest of U-turns as even a ' for the good of the country ' excuse will be seen as defeat and that's not something he will be able to take. I am afraid that DL has staked too much on this and will happily let the country descend into all sorts of chaos no matter the disasterous effect on the people that he professes to love so much, well if they support and vote for him that is.

No matter what happens here he is above it all, he can sit in Dubai and enjoy his money, travel at will and deny stiff that it had anything to do with him.

Difficult to U Turn? Do you actually follow Thailand news? Every day there is a politician or bureaucrat doing a U turn from a previous days statement or program proposal. Thailand is the HUB of U turns...lol

Yes this twisting and turning will never end but things are not good for the Shins at the moment. The have created a huge mess, economically and politically.

Meanwhile....Chalerm has stated that he has a "substitue" amnesty bill covering only "victims" like protesters and TS, not "murderers".

Seriously!

You can bet TS is No1 on the list as would be expected from brown nose C, the others aren't quite so important, don't forget - all animals are created equal just that some are more equal than others and 2 legs good, 4 legs better.

[fab4]

Has been reported elsewhere that Thaksin has used a phrase in Thai that is used in gambling that apparently translates to 'bet everything on this card or throw of the dice'

It seems however he has the back up position of calling a new election to try to get another 4 years but with reports of his support slipping, even in his heartland a win may not be assured.

Is this news as reliable as your "reported elsewhere" story yesterday that Yingluck was sitting in a helicopter with two planes on standby waiting to fly her off if the situation got untenable?

Any luck with that link to the facebook page with the photographic proof?

[kblaze]

Huge mess-up by the Nation;

the Senate CANNOT kill the bill. If they vote it down, it goes back to the House and then a joint committee is to be set up to amend it, it does not get killed. They can only delay it. If it is sent back to the House, they have to wait 180 days before they can amend it.

The only ways this bill can be killed now are through the Constitutional Court and the Royal family

[fab4]

"Article 3, which extends amnesty to criminal offences and corruption cases, aside from those related to political demonstrations"

You've really got to wonder how many people this lets off the hook.

It lets off as many rich and influential people as you care to imagine. In fact it is so obvious what PTP are intent on doing I am surprised it doesn't actually say in the bill that you need to have a minimum level of income and assets to qualify for amnesty.

One very interesting person to be the beneficiary of the bill will be a certain Sondhi Limthongkul currently on bail for the 5th? time for a 20 year sentence for corruption. If there's one person that has no need for an amnesty bill to avoid spending any time in prison, it's Sondhi. It must have really peed Thaksin off to accept that ironic event as a result of the amnesty bill.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I wonder if it is a revelation to the PM just how many millions of people detest her brother. To suggest that bringing her brother home, clear of all convictions, is helping the country is ridiculous and disgusting.

Its good that he ain't coming home then - if the senate doesn't pass the bill as seems likely now then if fails at the second hurdle but if the senate does foolishly pass it then the courts will nullify it for sure!!!

Edited November 5, 2013 by SICHONSTEVE

[webfact]

Some Senators voicing opposition to Amnesty Bill
By English News



BANGKOK, Nov 5 – Many senators are openly opposed to the Amnesty Bill which is scheduled for deliberation in their chamber next Monday.

In yesterday's Senate meeting, Uttaradit senator Naruemol Siriwat asked the House speaker if the bill would be debated in three straight readings in a single day as widely reported.

She urged senators to act with dignity, neutrality and independence on the fate on the seven-article Amnesty Bill.

The controversial legislation was passed in the third or final reading by the House of Representatives last week, sparking widespread furious reactions among some Thai people across the country, particularly in Bangkok where several civil society groups have rallied against it.

Some senators took the floor yesterday to speak against the bill granting blanket amnesty to offenders in criminal and corruption cases. Many said they preferred the original bill, proposed by Pheu Thai MP Vorachai Hema.

The original version was changed in various sections for the second reading.

Petchaburi senator Sumon Sutaviriyawat said she strongly believed the bill would stimulate more protest, and that the people are looking for a Senate reversal of the Lower House resolution.

Senators Charin Harnsuebsai from Tak and Singchai Thungthong from Uthai Thani said they intended to vote for the original bill, proposed by Mr Vorachai, but changed their mind.

Appointed senator Vicharn Sirichai-ekawat shared the pair’s opinions and said next week’s debate would determine if senators act independently.

The Senate speaker said the Upper House whip would discuss the bill's deliberations tomorrow, but he believed it would not pass three readings in one sitting. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-11-05

[GrantSmith]

Has been reported elsewhere that Thaksin has used a phrase in Thai that is used in gambling that apparently translates to 'bet everything on this card or throw of the dice'

It seems however he has the back up position of calling a new election to try to get another 4 years but with reports of his support slipping, even in his heartland a win may not be assured.

Is this news as reliable as your "reported elsewhere" story yesterday that Yingluck was sitting in a helicopter with two planes on standby waiting to fly her off if the situation got untenable?

Any luck with that link to the facebook page with the photographic proof?

Agreed, c'mon Robby nz show us the FB link with pics? Restore your credibility!

[drdoom6996]

This is by far the best story to have been posted in the news section for the past year.

Come on people of Thailand, protest until your last breath and keep the heat turned up. Because if this bill fails, then Thaksin has nothing left.

Did you not read last wee that "the Senate will Pass the Bill". It was just as long with an equal amount of rhetoric as to why the PTP controlled Senate will vote Yingluck and screw the people, Red or whatever color as she has her entire, if not short, political life?

[hellodolly]

I wonder if it is a revelation to the PM just how many millions of people detest her brother. To suggest that bringing her brother home, clear of all convictions, is helping the country is ridiculous and disgusting.

Much as I would like to see Thaksin permanently off the scene. I would have to agree that amnesty for all involved since 2006 be given.

Giving Thaksin amnesty for his instigating the turmoil in the red shirt attempted coup in 2010 goes against my grain but if that is what it takes so be it.

In no way should he be given amnesty for his crimes while in the PM office. Those he must face or it would just make the rule of law meaningless.

It would send the message that the Prime Minister is above the law. The PTPredshirts must learn that they also are subject to the law. the Amnesty would only concern the actions since 2006.

I believe it to be the only way and yet I want to throw up at the thought of that piece of-----------getting away with his actions in 2010.

[newermonkey]

"If the bill is passed by the Senate and becomes law, it would pardon all crimes related to politics and some corruption cases committed between 2004 and 2013."

Correction : One particular corruption case

[Magenta2013]

As senaters of this country it is their duty to block this bill for the sake of peace and security. The people are speaking and politicians need to start listening.

Trouble is the coup leaders only managed to get a minority of senators to be "appointed" and not elected.

They wanted (as does the Dems and Yellows) for a fully appointed undemocratic senate - such that any government in power actually had zero power as they (the ammart/Yellows) could use the appointed senate to block everything they did not like.

However - that failed.

PTP openly want to oust the appointed senators (read that Dem and Yellow friendly appointed senators who were NOT ELECTED). PTP want a fully elected, democratic senate.

So yes, there is a wedge of "appointed not elected" senators who will vote against anything PTP want to do. That will never change.

Everything hinges on the other proper real elected senators - and of course what they do nobody knows.

Thats why for all the grand standing and loud mouted shouting in the article.......... the headline says it all with one simple word.

That word is of course "MAY".

Because equally they likely "MAY NOT".

Not many people oppose the amnesty bill - so far less than 0.01% of the Thai population is protesting............. and with 99.99% not protesting - says the majorty are quite ok with it.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Magenta2013

[whybother]

As senaters of this country it is their duty to block this bill for the sake of peace and security. The people are speaking and politicians need to start listening.

Trouble is the coup leaders only managed to get a minority of senators to be "appointed" and not elected.

They wanted (as does the Dems and Yellows) for a fully appointed undemocratic senate - such that any government in power actually had zero power as they (the ammart/Yellows) could use the appointed senate to block everything they did not like.

However - that failed.

PTP openly want to oust the appointed senators (read that Dem and Yellow friendly appointed senators who were NOT ELECTED). PTP want a fully elected, democratic senate.

So yes, there is a wedge of "appointed not elected" senators who will vote against anything PTP want to do. That will never change.

Everything hinges on the other proper real elected senators - and of course what they do nobody knows.

Thats why for all the grand standing and loud mouted shouting in the article.......... the headline says it all with one simple word.

That word is of course "MAY".

Because equally they likely "MAY NOT".

Not many people oppose the amnesty bill - so far less than 0.01% of the Thai population is protesting............. and with 99.99% not protesting - says the majorty are quite ok with it.

If the appointed senators are all yellow / democrat friendly, and there are some elected senators that are yellow / democrat friendly, that would indicate that they should already have no problem blocking anything that the government put up to them.

Do you want to try again?

[webfact]

Protesters urged to wait for Senate’s vote on Amnesty Bill
By English News



BANGKOK, Nov 5 – Deputy House speaker Charoen Chankomol today called on the public to be patient and wait for a decision by the Senate which is due to debate the Amnesty Bill next Monday.

He said he could not predict the Upper House’s resolution on the bill but believed every senator would discuss it carefully.

The Senate could vote either for or against the bill, he said, adding that a committee would be set up to scrutinise the bill within seven days in case it passes the first reading while the deliberations in the second and third readings must be completed in 90 days.

If the Upper House rejects the bill in the first reading, it would be sent back to the House of Representatives which would leave it for 180 days before reconsidering it, he explained.

Mr Charoen admitted that the protests against the Amnesty Bill, with an ultimate goal to topple the government, would affect the government’s stability.

However, their goal will not be achieved and there is no reason for the prime minister to dissolve Parliament, he said.

Opposition Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said the protests against blanket amnesty would be strengthened every day, calling on Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and the government to take heed of the people’s voice.

Describing the widespread protests as a historic show of force, he said people have understood that the controversial bill would be beneficial to people in and close to the government.

He said the Democrat-led demonstration was merely against the Amnesty Bill, and not to topple the government, and hoped that the Senate would vote against the bill.

The Senate’s rejection will cool down the political tension to a certain level and the Lower House will have six months before the bill is resubmitted for debate, he said.

Jurin Laksanavisit, chief of opposition whips, said people have looked up to the Upper House in voting down the Amnesty Bill.

“The bill can, however, be reintroduced to the Lower House despite the Senate’s rejection. The prime minister should clearly announce her stand on this issue,” he said.

He said the prime minister could not ignore the problem with a repeated claim that the decision on the Amnesty Bill belongs to the legislative branch. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-11-05

[whybother]

<snip>

Not many people oppose the amnesty bill - so far less than 0.01% of the Thai population is protesting............. and with 99.99% not protesting - says the majorty are quite ok with it.

Given that statistic, it would mean that a 99.99% supported the Abhisit government, given that the red shirts only got 100,000 out at their protests.

[EvilDrSomkid]

It is just incredible that a PM refuses to commit publicly whether she supports the bill or not. Those crocodile tears on TV asking people to forgive and forget does not count. Forget? Might as well try to forget the Floods of 2011.

Instead, Cinderella keeps running away and occupying herself with fluff.