What Thai's Really Think

[johnlandy]

You would if you want a honest answer you need to break the question down as to whether half the village is being supported by the 'business' or whether it's a selected few.

It has been widely publicized in all corners of the world that the country is "the whorehouse of the world"

Those that benefit don't give a shyt what it's known as.

Those that are engaged in it don't give a shyt what it is known for.

The only ones who give a shyt are the females who have to go through the 3rd degree every time they go through arrivals immigration in the 1st worlds airports. Ask them how or what they think about the countries reputation.

And in any event it's not gonna change any time soon (not for the next 250 years anyway) so why do any of us give a shyt about it.

[Bikkii]

Its the same the world over. Education is the key.

If you were sexy enough to make good money selling your body. Would you do it if you were well educated and able to get a well paid professional job?

If you mean "would I be a gigolo?" Sure! Why not! ...but just on the side!

15 yrs ago I use to do it for free. should have charged though would have a couple of extra houses by now.

[benalibina]

Do you honestly believe the girls do it to support their families??

NO, they sell their bodies to get the latest iphone, the newest motorbike and hoping to meet the ultimate sucker, who is going to buy them a house and/or car!

A little harsh aint it ? Its IMO a combination of supporting the families, leading a relaxed holiday life at the beachresorts, away from the constraints in the villages (freedom), buying luxury stuff, saving money and looking for a rich hubby to pay for their, families, needs. In general the 1s ending up with a girl like that are the lucky 1s because they always have the most, financially, responsible girl of the family !!!

Relaxed holiday life!!???

Yes, as strange as it sounds. Ofcourse not applicable for all. Coming from the village, going to phuket, pattaya etc where they hardly know anybody. Any decent looking girll can almost do as she pleases. Customer up to her to go or not, alcohol, party, beaches and more money than where they came from. If you think its nonsense better think twice.

[lineofentry]

Prostitution is only a problem for stuck up prigs who are too stupid to realise how their moral compasses have been warped by the indoctrination and teachings of the totally bent church for the past 1600 years.

[ericthai]

Thanks for that, I know while it happens in Thailand the whole country is not involved in those activities

Time to quit blaming the entire country for the sex industry, Pattaya only became such during the Vietnam war. in the 1960-1970's

Cheers

yes, but there is prostitution all over Thailand. I have several Thai friends that a business men. When we travel around Thailand they always know where the massage place is that provides the fish bowl girls. Their wives know what is going on but don't care, so it's not just Tourist enjoying the sex services, but Thai men and women too.

I know a young Thai guy he is a prostitute for rich old ladies. Their husband don't care and run around so these older ladies have money and buy young guys.

As for the girls working in bars for a better life. I would say a good majority start out wanting to support their family and looking to marry a rich guy.

My friend has owned a go-go bar for over 25 years. Seen allot of girls come and go in his place. I have seen how the new girls change. They come in hoping to make good money and meet a nice guy. After they been lied to a few times and hearts broke they don't care anymore and just looking for the money. I known a few girls that came to BKK worked hard for a little over a year doing mostly short time. Made enough money to build a small house and money in the bank, bought some more farm land and moved back home. Some end up doing drugs and just spiral out of control.

However you can not just make a general statement about a population.

[Diablo Bob]

Thanks for that, I know while it happens in Thailand the whole country is not involved in those activities

Time to quit blaming the entire country for the sex industry, Pattaya only became such during the Vietnam war. in the 1960-1970's

Cheers

Not really accurate..... Pattaya did not emerge until the 70's, after the Vietnam war. During the war, service men would R&R at the JUSMAG bungalos in Pattaya, at that time a sleepy fishing village. We had an outdoor theatre, Tennis and basketball courts and rental ski boats and sailboats. Fishing boats could be chartered. Nightlife was a fire on the beach with lots of beer or the movies, no bar within walking distance (No taxi or Sontows back then).

For a night life you had to go to Bangkok (No Patpong, Nana Plaza or Soi Cowboy), Petchburi Road was the place at that time.

For those stationed at U-Tapao or Satahip there were local bars near the bases. Military buses provided transportation to Bangkok (4 Hrs.).

You have to remember, Thailand was still pristene. Bangkok still had khlongs, Wireless road (Embassy Rd.) was 2 lane with Khlongs down each side and the road totally in shade from the trees lining the Khlongs banks....... Sukhumvitt was only paved to Soi 33. The floating market wasn't a tourist attraction but an actual floating market.

Then after the war, development started at Pattaya. You can't blame the US servicemen for developing the sex trade in Pattaya. Now the Philippines.......Guilty!

[elzach]

The double standards from some members here are glaring and laughable actually: "hey, there's nothing wrong with prostitution, it's a good job, they have no choice, support family, support Apple, blah blah blah..".

NOW, when was the last time any man here on TV really thought like that about his WESTERN gf or ex-gf or even acquaintance??

Edited November 5, 2013 by elzach

[DavidMavec]

IMHO Time for Thailand to clean it up!! Thailand's level of prosperity is a lot higher than during the Vietnam era, there are opportunities for young women outside the sex industry...it's all about greed, corruption, and laziness nowadays.

Clean it up if they don't want other countries to look down on them as they do now! The problem, again IMO, is that (generalizing) Thai people will do anything for money, no matter how shady or dishonest, it is deeply embedded in their national psyche, much more so than in other developing countries. That's why Thailand is the brothel of the world, no other reason.

I think you are wrong, the biggest majority of Thais are decent and honest, though I do have reservations about their mentality especially when they are riding or driving.

That is good, I am glad to meet someone who sees it this way (no sarcasm intended).

[SeabagsFull]

To be sure, there are those who would exploit young girls of any race for their own profits. One of the things that made Thaksin so popular in the eyes of the west is that he put a stop to bar-girl recruitment by "agents" in Pattaya & Phuket. Still, the question really begs that we approach prostitution from the position that it's morally wrong. But is it? How about we put this in perspective.

Every major religion other than Buddhism was born out of poverty & suffering at the hands of those with more. The wealthiest were flagrant, both showing off riches & their abilities to engage in sexual orgies. While the poor & suffering not only couldn't afford multiple-partner relationships, wives & daughters were often stolen from the family by those in power. It is no wonder that each religion began with rules about sexual monogamy.

Buddha saw the allure of sex as a distraction to enlightenment, especially considering that his father tried to use provocative women to keep him "engaged" & that, during his long fast, he had a vision of sexual beauties tempting him; all of this might explain why he too was skeptical of the benefits of unchecked sexual freedom. Ironically, the Koran's final writings took place several hundred years after Jesus died, which explains (i.e., more modern times than those surrounding the birth of Christianity) why Muslim men are allowed to not only take up to four wives but can also take a wife for a day when on travel (provided they have less than four already); unfortunately, gender equality was no better than when Jesus lived.

Is it possible that there is nothing wrong with prostitution? Is sex simply a body function that we have at our disposal, that it's up to each & every one of us to enjoy or get out of it what we want or need to? Affairs? Swinging? I guess it just depends on the attitudes & feelings of those involved. If someone gets hurt, then that's not good. I believe a solid relationship foundation would be one where both partners are on a similar journey.

If we can remove religious beliefs from all of our perceptions of reality, I believe we'll notice how much more life has to offer. Then there will be no more moral outrages about what someone is wearing or who someone is doing or what age differences exist between two people living together or what the specific genders are. Someone willing to pay you for sex? Great! Or not, "it's up to you."

[beautifulthailand99]

Buffalo are cheaper than I would have thought ! up to 10k for a beast.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/86950-price-of-buffalo/

[slipperylobster]

In my experience the girls enter the sex industry for nothing more than pure unudulterated greed.

Their greedy families are not content to work themselves so they send their "asset" off to work in bar.

Their fathers cease working when the girls are old enough to work the bar, and use the lame excuse that they will take care of the children for them, at a substantial fee.

After the girl pays off the family, I have heard of 10 - 14 thousand baht per month for the parents to care for a toddler, then there is the drug and alcohol addiction to contend with.

The family knows all about the girl, as no girl would dare disobey her father, but with their lack of morality they turn a blind eye as long as the money comes each month to maintain the families lifestyle.

I have heard it said by parents that the girl has to work in the sex industry because she has a p**ssy.

They learn all the tricks from the other girls, including drug use, in the end they return home with nothing, the lucky ones latch onto a punter and get out of the business, but soon return if the money stops and the families greed returns.

Or they become "brokers" for dating websites, taking in 30-60 thousand when the "target" shows up for the big "date" . Where is that Sin Sod honey...it's a tradition.

[benalibina]

To be sure, there are those who would exploit young girls of any race for their own profits. One of the things that made Thaksin so popular in the eyes of the west is that he put a stop to bar-girl recruitment by "agents" in Pattaya & Phuket. Still, the question really begs that we approach prostitution from the position that it's morally wrong. But is it? How about we put this in perspective.

Every major religion other than Buddhism was born out of poverty & suffering at the hands of those with more. The wealthiest were flagrant, both showing off riches & their abilities to engage in sexual orgies. While the poor & suffering not only couldn't afford multiple-partner relationships, wives & daughters were often stolen from the family by those in power. It is no wonder that each religion began with rules about sexual monogamy.

Buddha saw the allure of sex as a distraction to enlightenment, especially considering that his father tried to use provocative women to keep him "engaged" & that, during his long fast, he had a vision of sexual beauties tempting him; all of this might explain why he too was skeptical of the benefits of unchecked sexual freedom. Ironically, the Koran's final writings took place several hundred years after Jesus died, which explains (i.e., more modern times than those surrounding the birth of Christianity) why Muslim men are allowed to not only take up to four wives but can also take a wife for a day when on travel (provided they have less than four already); unfortunately, gender equality was no better than when Jesus lived.

Is it possible that there is nothing wrong with prostitution? Is sex simply a body function that we have at our disposal, that it's up to each & every one of us to enjoy or get out of it what we want or need to? Affairs? Swinging? I guess it just depends on the attitudes & feelings of those involved. If someone gets hurt, then that's not good. I believe a solid relationship foundation would be one where both partners are on a similar journey.

If we can remove religious beliefs from all of our perceptions of reality, I believe we'll notice how much more life has to offer. Then there will be no more moral outrages about what someone is wearing or who someone is doing or what age differences exist between two people living together or what the specific genders are. Someone willing to pay you for sex? Great! Or not, "it's up to you."

Prostitution morally wrong ?? I dont think that many on this forum consider prostitution like that. Everybody has a choice in life in order how to make money. No need to feel sorry for a prostitute.

[cms22]

Do you honestly believe the girls do it to support their families??

NO, they sell their bodies to get the latest iphone, the newest motorbike and hoping to meet the ultimate sucker, who is going to buy them a house and/or car!

Spot on. I have known several bar girls. Not one of them has worked in the bar for their families. They (at least the ones I have known) have been completely selfish. Clothes and Phones and Drinking and Gambling and Drugs and Sex. That's what is about.

[iamariva1957]

The original post got me thinking as well. I have lived here for a while now (some 4 years almost) and for the past 2 up here in the North West of the Kingdom. Here we do not have the flocks of farang tourists or the red-light areas of say most other large towns or cities here. The women who do ply that trade are all Burmese and not Thai at all and it is the local male population, that is to say Thai men, that are the customers.

But Thailand has been a 'sexual country' for a good deal longer than the '60s and 'Nam. So it seems to me that the rest of the world should not judge but rather understand the dynamics and the socioeconomic and cultural issues that are, and have been, at play here for a good deal longer than say, the US has been a country. There are many things about life here for your average 'local girl' that goes beyond our Western understanding and sense of propriety. Exporting our moral values is all very well and good, and even maybe well intentioned, but serves as nothing more than saying "We know better". For do we? I am not sure.

Yes, I agree, that it might be greed based and that the opportunity to get a new iPhone or whatever else is a factor and that the chance of "hooking" a nice rich guy that will take care of family and needs is a driving force. But is that not the case everywhere else? I lived in NYC for 15 years and saw it all the time. I also saw it in London and Paris and in LA (try going down Sunset or Santa Monica Blvds at night). Certainly Las Vegas, for that matter, is not just built upon gambling you know. It was originally the camp for the guys building the Hoover Dam and the brothels were there long before the casinos. So deosn't "Same same, but different" apply? I think so. For there is nothing in Thailand that one cannot find in Vegas or anywhere else (okay... so you might have to 'look' a bit harder to find it) if sex is on your 'shopping list' albeit at a far less cost .

So I say deal with it and look at it from another POV rather than your own. We can judge but that does not mean that we would be right. Life here has been different for centuries and will remain that way for a while longer (we will have to see what the ASEAN bit will bring). But until then... life here for everyone is what it is and needs are what they are. The fact that Thailand has recognized that there are 3 sexes (male, female, and those in between) speaks volumes. We in the West are still trying to get our minds around that one at home. So are we 'better' (that is not the right word I know... but for the lack of something else it will have to do for now)?

Time to stop pointing fingers and thinking that we might know better. That prosumes that we have all the answers. The fact is that we do not and in many ways we are lagging behind. But I am not saying that the sex trade is a 'good thing' or one that should be promoted. The lives that are involved in that 'service' are far from easy or, for that matter, always good. But is it a trade? A way by which you can improve your life, money, and/or ability to support your family? I think that you have to look at it as if it is. Is it right? Now that is one of the questions that needs to be examined. Is it cultural, is another. As is whether Thailand is fundamentally any different in than any other city in the US, the UK, Germany, France, or Russia (to name but a few)? Or is that Thailand is just more able to see something that we in the West have failed to see? I have no idea. But, I suspect that the latter is true.

[charmonman]

I am an aficionado of Thai movies made the the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It is surprising in how many of these movies, particularly of the action and sometimes comedy genres, the leading man ends up in a massage parlor or a go-go bar of some sort. In these movies this is generally depicted as somewhat glamorous, or at least with little to no moral judgement towards either the male customer or the female employee - just a normal part of daily life. On the other hand there are a few more serious movies in which a more negative side of prostitution is portrayed, again with little moral judgement against the women involved.

In my younger days, in the 90s I would sometimes go out on the town with my male Thai coworkers and we would inevitably end up in some establishment in which female entertainers were involved. The interaction between my coworkers and the women always seemed quite friendly and respectful. In more recent years, in the 2000s, I would sometimes go out to dinner with my former boss and again, it would often end up in somewhat high-end establishments where the paid company of women was involved. As before it all seemed fairly friendly and respectful, but I do not doubt that there are corners of the industry in Thailand I was not exposed to that are much uglier.

As for the Thai middle class women I have known, their reaction to such things ranged from complete denial to a pretty non-judgmental acceptance of the reality of it. In my personal experience I never really met any Thai woman who was completely outraged by it, though I am sure they are out there.

I think Thais in general are more bothered by all the stupid jokes and poorly researched media representations of this aspect of their country than by the actual sex "industry" itself. I was given an interesting perspective when I went on a business trip with a Thai colleague to a city in the West. After walking up and down the main street of this city, in which there were a few strip clubs and several sex shops, he said he was surprised at how much "sex for sale" there was.

Anyway, that's my experience of the subject over several decades. I think attitudes among Thais vary widely, but I think the most common attitude is they don't see it as a big deal.

[mmh8]

hell if I could walk aroound with rose tinted glases on I would, but I don't like lying to myself

[cbluck58]

Same old chestnut rehashed and put on line yet again......

[benalibina]

I am an aficionado of Thai movies made the the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It is surprising in how many of these movies, particularly of the action and sometimes comedy genres, the leading man ends up in a massage parlor or a go-go bar of some sort. In these movies this is generally depicted as somewhat glamorous, or at least with little to no moral judgement towards either the male customer or the female employee - just a normal part of daily life. On the other hand there are a few more serious movies in which a more negative side of prostitution is portrayed, again with little moral judgement against the women involved.

In my younger days, in the 90s I would sometimes go out on the town with my male Thai coworkers and we would inevitably end up in some establishment in which female entertainers were involved. The interaction between my coworkers and the women always seemed quite friendly and respectful. In more recent years, in the 2000s, I would sometimes go out to dinner with my former boss and again, it would often end up in somewhat high-end establishments where the paid company of women was involved. As before it all seemed fairly friendly and respectful, but I do not doubt that there are corners of the industry in Thailand I was not exposed to that are much uglier.

As for the Thai middle class women I have known, their reaction to such things ranged from complete denial to a pretty non-judgmental acceptance of the reality of it. In my personal experience I never really met any Thai woman who was completely outraged by it, though I am sure they are out there.

I think Thais in general are more bothered by all the stupid jokes and poorly researched media representations of this aspect of their country than by the actual sex "industry" itself. I was given an interesting perspective when I went on a business trip with a Thai colleague to a city in the West. After walking up and down the main street of this city, in which there were a few strip clubs and several sex shops, he said he was surprised at how much "sex for sale" there was.

Anyway, that's my experience of the subject over several decades. I think attitudes among Thais vary widely, but I think the most common attitude is they don't see it as a big deal.

Unless their own daughter would be working in the clubs you visited !

But that would have been a failure of their own parenting.

Being brought up poor with no education leaves 2 choices;

Work hard, gain experience and thus create opportunities later on.

Work easy because hard work brings not much and thus, pressured by familyobligations ??, become a prostitute and make easy money.

For the latter, again nothing wrong with it but no need to feel sorry.

How society looks upon them differs. Same as everywhere else in the world.

[minikev]

Why should Thai's or Farangs look down on bargirls? Perhaps we should look down on the customers more. Anyway I for one enjoy the fact they are there. It provides a welcome escape from the hum drum and boredom of a normal life. Always fun, For whatever reason they are doing it, if you are polite and pleasant with them they are the same in return and therefore they enjoy your company as much as we enjoy theirs.

[willyumiii]

I find it interesting that the farang oriented services available that started as a result of R&R for those who took part in the attempted invasion of Vietnam by the U.S and her allies is most criticized by those from those same western countries.

They helped create the industry.

They partake and keep it going.

And yet, they are the ones who call t dirty and shameful!

In their countries, the girls selling it are usually diseased drug addicts and criminals supporting their habits and high risk life style.

Here there are no doubt some with the same problems.

But I think the vast majority are supporting family and an above poverty life style...not a drug problem.

Is it a western catholic type attitude?

The more you enjoy something the more guilt you should feel?

And don't forget to shift that guilt to others.

You couldn't possibly be the bad guy..it's their fault for being available!

[tetleythedog]

What Thais think:

No there isn't something like that.

There are conservative Thais, there are liberal Thais, there are right wing Thais, there are communist Thais, etc etc.

Would you ask: What does Americans think about ......?

Americans ? Think? That's a shock ! By the way it's 'What do' not "What does",

[penwithcris]

I asked a bar girl if she ever got 'sore" when she returned to the bar having serviced her seventh customer that evening. Of course I do she said 'my feet are killing me walking to and from different hotels'!!

On Pattaya Beach Road I asked a little cutie how much for sex with her? She said 250 baht against the nearby tree or 500 baht back at my hotel. I gave her 500 baht and she started walking off in the direction of my hotel. Where the hell are you going I shouted I want it twice up against that tree!!

What do you call a prostitute with a runny nose? FULL!!

What is the best definition of ETERNITY? The time between your orgasm and the working girl leaving your room!

I asked a working girl how much she'd earned that night? 1005 baht she said. Who on earth gave you five baht I asked? THEY ALL DID she answered!!

The reason that many Thai girls ending up working as prostitutes is because they wouldn't understand any of the above jokes(and Americans I find are not far behind)

[prvtdetdave]

IMHO Time for Thailand to clean it up!! Thailand's level of prosperity is a lot higher than during the Vietnam era, there are opportunities for young women outside the sex industry...it's all about greed, corruption, and laziness nowadays.

Clean it up if they don't want other countries to look down on them as they do now! The problem, again IMO, is that (generalizing) Thai people will do anything for money, no matter how shady or dishonest, it is deeply embedded in their national psyche, much more so than in other developing countries. That's why Thailand is the brothel of the world, no other reason.

RUBBISH!

[ChrisB87]

I disagree. Sorry.

I don't think they really need that sort of money. THEY WANT IT. (big difference)

Some families want a better life. They are happy to turn a blind eye as to where the money comes from.

I understand prostitution makes more than many other jobs, but they don't NEED that kind of money (except in abnormal circumstances), and i don't think it is worth what their daughters have to do. Most prostitutes don't seem that happy.

A girl i knew from Indonesia had a normal sized family. Nobody really worked. Nobody left the village in Java (to go to Bali or the capital Jakarta) to try to find more money, like she did. Even the in-laws didn't work. They just called her up begging for money to have a more luxurious life. They made her life absolutely miserable. She wasn't a prostitute (at least not openly), but she forced herself to "be" with other guys to get support from them. She was a gold-digger, but only because her family pressured her for money, which they didn't actually need, but only wanted. They always turned a blind eye as to where the money came from (spending time with guys she didn't like, pretending to be in "real relationships" with them and having sex with them, just so she could get to their money). She juggled more guys than she could keep track of. The guys got screwed (for their money). She suffered too. No one was happy except her lazy family.

There is probably a lot of this here too.

Fortunately, my Thai fiancee's family have a lot of dignity and never treated her badly like this. She has never had to do this.

Edited November 6, 2013 by ChrisB87

[slipperylobster]

I asked a bar girl if she ever got 'sore" when she returned to the bar having serviced her seventh customer that evening. Of course I do she said 'my feet are killing me walking to and from different hotels'!!

On Pattaya Beach Road I asked a little cutie how much for sex with her? She said 250 baht against the nearby tree or 500 baht back at my hotel. I gave her 500 baht and she started walking off in the direction of my hotel. Where the hell are you going I shouted I want it twice up against that tree!!

What do you call a prostitute with a runny nose? FULL!!

What is the best definition of ETERNITY? The time between your orgasm and the working girl leaving your room!

I asked a working girl how much she'd earned that night? 1005 baht she said. Who on earth gave you five baht I asked? THEY ALL DID she answered!!

The reason that many Thai girls ending up working as prostitutes is because they wouldn't understand any of the above jokes(and Americans I find are not far behind)

and you are a moron for posting stupid bargirl jokes....

[Jackson86]

I believe most girls do it to support family, only a minority are materialistic. Just enjoy their services in a peaceful and respectful way and don't call them names or whatsoever. I as a foreigner don't like to go to other people's country and dirty their women.

[wwest5829]

Thanks for that, I know while it happens in Thailand the whole country is not involved in those activities

Time to quit blaming the entire country for the sex industry, Pattaya only became such during the Vietnam war. in the 1960-1970's

Cheers

Pattaya, yeah, but in case you are thinking that prostitution in Thailand was invented by foreigners, you'd be very wrong. The domestic sex industry dwarfs the one for foreigners - it is just much more discrete, without neon and spread all over the place, not so much concentrated on single streets. Thailand has had large-scale prostitution for a very long time. And at least in the foreigner sex zones, the girls are somewhat independent and not held prisoner.

True. 'Don't understand why the it-all-started-with-Americans-during-the-war chorus can never get this. The empty-headed USA hating thing just has an irresistable lure to it I guess.

They take this tack because they have not read or do not believe the history.

[slipperylobster]

Time to quit blaming the entire country for the sex industry, Pattaya only became such during the Vietnam war. in the 1960-1970's

Oh come on. I mean, really? So what ! That was fifty years ago, man. Lets get up to date. How many Americans own girlie bars "Today"??? Is it your parents fault that you are now writing comments here on ThaiVisa?

[morocco]

I agree with the OP.

I am in rural Isaan and I know a few girls who work in the south and send/ bring the money home for family.

They don't advertise what they do for the money and don't do it at home.

People know what's going on and do not disrespect the girls for doing it.

Many would be very poor families now do pretty well. Nicer house, nicer clothes for the children, maybe a truck or tractor to make the farm more profitable.

It's all good.

Good merit

If I were an attractive young woman with a needy family, in Thailand, I would have no problem with helping the family like this!

In the west...forget it!

P.S. Hanging out, partying in bars and getting rubbed for a l good money, expensive gifts and sponsorship doesn't sound like an unpleasant occupation! to me!

The occupation is called prostitution.

[flyingdoc]

By and large I have read all the replies, and most are very sensible. I am writing a book on the subject, 'Teardrops in Siam', and I have interviewed many girls who have looked me straight in the eye, and assured me that Buddha smiles on their efforts to send money back to their families in Isaan or elsewhere, and without it there would not be enough money to pay for medical treatment for one or other of their parents etc. With Lao, Burmese and Cambodian girls, the lure is usually money and far greater opportunity in LOS than in their own country. The domestic Thai market, I agree, far outstrips any far more widely publicized 'farang' clientele!