Excessive Charges For Bottled Water In Restaurants

[Jingjok]

Since the current ‘Good restaurants on Phuket’ thread appears to have mutated into a slagging-off forum, I’ll add my current rant: *excessive charges for bottled water*

By way of illustration, here’s a recent example, from Wildfire in Karon.

I was there with three friends. We’d ordered plenty of food, cocktails and beers. I also wanted some plain water. At home I drink tap water or at most, the 5-Baht per bottle stuff, which is sterile and perfectly fine.

The waitress at Wildfire said that they ONLY have Evian, at something like Baht 100 per small bottle. I ordered one bottle and determined never to return. Plus the food order came wrong and a friend’s crab was totally uncooked. Horrible.

So what’s this all about? It leaves a bad taste in the mouth to be ripped off for a staple like water. This is becoming more common in Phuket.

I had the same issue at Joe’s (Part of the Baan Rim Pa group). The manager told me that they do not serve ‘ordinary’ bottled water because guests have complained that it gave them a bad stomach. What utter rubbish!

In my experience, the more ‘high-class’ an establishment (worldwide) the more likely it is that you can get a simple glass of water (alongside expensive alcoholic drinks – that’s fine) without being ripped off. In my opinion it is the sign of a ‘mickey-mouse’ restaurant to screw the captive (and thirsty) customer for few Baht extra on unnecessarily expensive water.

I did a bit of research on the Evian phenomenon. Apparently waiting staff are given five Baht for each Evian bottle cap they return. Sometimes even the management don’t know that. Maybe this is why suddenly Evian is the ‘only’ water they can serve. Well, typically, that makes five Baht and loses tens of thousands of Baht by annoying a local customer, who eats out most nights but will never return there. How very Thai!

Discuss

[ToTheBeach]

'Normal' drinking water should be free when requested and when guests are actually spending baht on food and other beverages...

It only shows the greed to make a few quick baht out of a tourist. They never realise they might loose a long tern guest this way.

Time to move on to better places....

[donna]

and i bet it was in one of those tiny little 250ml bottles too!

i agree that water should be supplied with a meal. one glass is enough. after that, payment is fine as long as its not over the top.

when a big bottle of water costs about 15 or 20 baht, and this contains 20 litres, to give it away for good will isnt such a burden on the restaurant. whack a bit of ice in it and off you go.

stingy. thats all it is.

[markuk]

I dont know - complaining over a bottle of water!!

If you dont like it dont pay it and as you have said you will not go back there.

I keep hearing comparisons like this - water/beer / food, its cheaper in 7 eleven, why is the bar charging 100 baht, water is only 10 baht why is the bar charging 100 etc etc - remember bars and restaurants have overheads, staff, A/C to pay etc - it has to be more expensive..especially when in the tourist areas.

Just my opinion - no one forces you to pay it.

[terdsak_12]

I have the same issues in Bangkok, go to a bar/restaurant, order expensive food and drinks and then ask for a glass of water, the waitress comes back with a 80 Baht bottle.

All I want is a glass of water, they can't give it for free????

[donna]

i dont think that he is complaining about having to pay for the water. i think hes complaining that the bottle is 100 baht.

thats a lot for some plain old water.

as i said before - i think that a glass with a meal is fine. after that, buy it.

i mean if people come in and get water automaticaly, they will sit there for hours just drinking the free water and nothing else. bums on seats is good, but they must be paying for the privelige.

sure, they have overheads. and i suspect that if the water was 100baht that the restaurant wasnt cheap in the first place so there you go.

[terdsak_12]

Then there'sthe restaurants that automatically open the water bottle after bottle and you didn't even ask for it!!! But it'll be on your tab.

[donna]

yeah, see, thats smart.

if its there youre gonna drink it arent you.

and when its on your bill you cant dispute the fact that you drank it.

[Master Chief]

Evian is the most expensive water in Thailand, imported as it is in the original bottle. Some fine wines are also imported and bottled here. But Evian is a water sort of its own, expensive.

[donna]

i dont get the whole evian thing myself. water is water to me. of course theres clean water and dirty water. but clean water is clean water. it goes in the same way and comes out the same way.

i went to the movies a while ago in bkk and wanted some water. they only had perrier or evian. at 90 and 110 baht a bottle, i asked the boy behind the counter if i got a massage in the price! needless to say, he didnt get it!

[dive_mistress]

So what is the correct way to ask for the water that comes from the big white jugs? LIke the kind the employees drink? In thai what can we day if we dont want bottled water. ANyone?

[Jingjok]

So what is the correct way to ask for the water that comes from the big white jugs? LIke the kind the employees drink? In thai what can we day if we dont want bottled water. ANyone?

As I understand it from dining with a particular Thai friend who is equally annoyed by expensive water, it’s best to ask for ‘Naam tamada’ (ordinary water). ie, if asked what sort or water you want, reply “Naam tamada ko day” (ordinary water will do).

In the UK, if asked the same question by a pompous waiter, I reply “The wet sort”, or, “The sort that comes out of a tap’. Popular in restaurants, I am

The point about the employees having to drink something is very important. I use that fact as a counter when I’m told that there is absolutely no water on the premises apart from Evian, Perrier or whatever. You can be quite sure the management don’t let the staff drink their precious Evian.

[slackula]

So what is the correct way to ask for the water that comes from the big white jugs? LIke the kind the employees drink? In thai what can we day if we dont want bottled water. ANyone?

When you ask for water specify that you want "drinking water". In Thai it is nam bplao (plain water), mineral water is called nam raer (sorry about my Thai spelling, perhaps one of the Thai speakers can correct it for me)

In most places the staff are trained to try and upsell by offering mineral water (which can be anything from Minere to San Pellegrino) but by specifying drinking water you will normally get the stuff out of the big plastic containers.

[Jingjok]

Many thanks for the (almost) unanimous support: I was concerned I might have been becoming a misanthropic old git before my time

And yes, Donna, it *was* a ‘tiny little 250ml bottle’. But I don’t believe anyone would ‘sit there for hours just drinking the free water and nothing else’ in any restaurant or bar. That would be deeply uncool, and the restaurant would have every right to ask such customers to leave.

Ts, if a waiter automatically opens a water bottle just wave it away. ‘Mai day sang’ (I didn’t order that). Soon puts a stop to that nonsense. But it can mean you have to sit there thirsty just to make the point!

They used to do that at Twin Palms in Surin. As soon as you sat down, water was opened and poured. Then it was on the bill whether you wanted it or not, or even drank it at all. But at a reasonable Baht 40, it wasn’t enough to get me worked up into rant mode, it just felt a bit naff, that’s all.

Now here’s the interesting bit - I happened to mention to un-coolness of the practice to the manager the other day, and he was astounded. He said that ordinary water is available with any meal. No, it’s not, I said, I’ve asked on several occasions to be told they don’t serve it. He investigated, and later reported that the staff had taken it on themselves to automatically serve water, in order to increase the restaurant’s takings and hence their service charge. The practice has now been stopped. Well done Twin Palms, I heartily recommend your place to everyone.

The point about all this, UK Mark, is not my unwillingness to pay anything at all. Although I do consider it the mark of a quality restaurant to serve a glass of water when asked without using it as a profit opportunity.

Ordinary water is an absolute staple. Effectively part of the overheads. Several hundred litres would cost less than one night’s air-conditioning costs in many restaurants, but no one has yet tried to charge for the cooled oxygen one consumes whilst dining. What’s the difference?

Perhaps I spent too long in the Sahara desert once, where I learned that no one, as a matter of honour, would refuse a drink of water to a thirsty person even were he one’s greatest enemy. It was a nice feeling and has stuck with me.

My specific gripe with Wildfire was the insistence that NO OTHER water at all was available anywhere on the premises except for Evian. Then my investigations revealed that this assertion was probably linked to alleged corrupt payments to the staff.

BTW, Slackula, I find that naam duum / naam bplao can easily elicit expensive small bottles of water. ‘Khoo naam bplao nung khuat’ or even -- khuat nung is a perfectly correct construction when ordering say, Minere. That’s why I prefer naam thamada, to be absolutely clear I don’t mean a small bottle served at table.

[kasi]

100 baht for a small Evian seems exorbitant.

Evian in Thailand is a rip-off. The singha water tastes better anyway.

There's nothing wrong with the water served at he open stall restaurants. They buy the big 20 liter bottles for 8-12 baht each.

[kasi]

BTW the only really descent place to eat in Karon is the "Karon Cafe".

[Thaipwriter]

Can somebody tell me?

Is the place in question a dirt cheap hovel with dirty everything or is it a quality establishment with ambience and fine food to match.

Does the Op want tea at the ritz for the price of a chip butty in Blackpool?

Is 100 baht an excessive price for anything in Thailand?

Is this thread even Thai related?

As for the 20 gallon water bottles...has anyone seen them being cleaned out at the refilling location with a Karcher jet wast connected to the normal water mains?

Thats a real nice touch!

[wolf5370]

Can't remember if it LoS of the Phillipines, but I remember being told that there is a law that free drinking water must be supplied at all eating establishments on request. This can be straight from the tap of course, but they must give it to you if you ask (assuming they follow or even know the law that is - and that it is Thailand and not Phi I'm thinking of).

I always ask for a bottle of Mekong with water and allways get the Thai plastic bottles. Costs about 20b for the water. Never been given Evian or any other expensive water before. Once or twise was given a jug of water which I sent back for a bottle - but still always got the plastic bottles of the Thai stuff.

Even noticed that Hotels oftebn have both types of water in the mini-fridge. 10b (or free) for the ordinary Thai water, 80b for the foreign mineral stuff. If I only get the mineral in the fridge, it stays there and I got 7-11 shopping (put it in the mini-fridge in a plastic carrier bag tied off so I don't get charged for it by the hotel.

[Jingjok]

Can somebody tell me?

Is the place in question a dirt cheap hovel with dirty everything or is it a quality establishment with ambience and fine food to match.

Does the Op want tea at the ritz for the price of a chip butty in Blackpool?

Is 100 baht an excessive price for anything in Thailand?

Is this thread even Thai related?

As for the 20 gallon water bottles...has anyone seen them being cleaned out at the refilling location with a Karcher jet wast connected to the normal water mains?

Thats a real nice touch!

In my opinion Wildfire has fine ambience and looks very good from the outside. It affects to be a quality establishment, but the food and service was horrible.

No I don’t want tea at the Ritz. I haven’t been to tea there for years: it’s full of US and Jap tourists who have read about in a book. It’s OK if you need a shot of Palm Court Rococo excess, but there are too many people taking pictures for my liking. That said the main restaurant and Rivoli bar is still good and their House Champagne is excellent at forty quid a throw, which is cheap considering the ambience and faultless service. A lot cheaper than in Thailand. Four Seasons on Park Lane or Claridges are much better for tea, and serve an excellent selection with the correct scones and clotted cream for a very reasonable price; and you can have a free glass of water as well. That’s what I mean by quality. I have some of Four Season’s ‘Anniversary tea’ here in Kamala, it’s one of the few reminders of home I couldn’t do without

I have no experience of chip butties in Blackpool so I defer to your greater experience.

[taxexile]

taxexiles tightwad tip no. 1

fill up an empty glass from the ice bucket and wait for it to melt.

[Master Chief]

Bottled Water Types In Thailand

What are the different types of bottled water?

There are several different varieties of bottled water. The product may be labeled as bottled water, drinking water or any of the following terms. Product definitions for bottled water are:

Artesian Water / Artesian Well Water: Bottled water from a well that taps a confined aquifer (a water-bearing underground layer of rock or sand) in which the water level stands at some height above the top of the aquifer.

Spring Water: Bottled water derived from an underground formation from which water flows naturally to the surface of the earth. Spring water must be collected only at the spring or through a bore hole tapping the underground formation and the spring. Spring water collected with the use of an external force must be from the same underground stratum as the spring and must have all the physical properties, before treatment, and be of the same composition and quality as the water that flows naturally to the surface of the earth.

Well Water: Bottled water from a hole bored, drilled or otherwise constructed in the ground which taps the water of an aquifer.

All local water is from this type of water sources, unsafe if not purified

Drinking Water: Drinking water is another name for bottled water. Accordingly, drinking water is water that is sold for human consumption in sanitary containers and contains no added sweeteners or chemical additives (other than flavors, extracts or essences). It must be calorie-free and sugar-free. Flavors, extracts or essences may be added to drinking water, but they must comprise less than one-percent-by-weight of the final product or the product will be considered a soft drink. Drinking water may be sodium-free or contain very low amounts of sodium.

Mineral Water: Bottled water containing not less than 250 parts per million total dissolved solids may be labeled as mineral water. Mineral water is distinguished from other types of bottled water by its constant level and relative proportions of mineral and trace elements at the point of emergence from the source. No minerals can be added to this product.

Minéré

Purified Water: Water that has been produced by distillation, deionization, reverse osmosis or other suitable processes and that meets the definition of purified water in the United States Pharmacopoeia may be labeled as purified bottled water. Other suitable product names for bottled water treated by one of the above processes may include "distilled water" if it is produced by distillation, "deionized water" if the water is produced by deionization, or "reverse osmosis water" if the process used is reverse osmosis. Alternatively "_____________ drinking water" can be used with the blank being filled in with one of the terms defined in this paragraph (e.g. "purified drinking water" or "distilled drinking water").

Water from the big white bottles, only water and no nutrients

Singha water and all other claimed Thai mineral water brands

Sparkling Water: Water that after treatment and possible replacement with carbon dioxide contains the same amount of carbon dioxide that it had at emergence from the source. (An important note: soda water, seltzer water and tonic water are not considered bottled waters. They are regulated separately, may contain sugar and calories, and are considered soft drinks.)

Perrier

Spring Water: Bottled water derived from an underground formation from which water flows naturally to the surface of the earth. Spring water must be collected only at the spring or through a bore hole tapping the underground formation and the spring. Spring water collected with the use of an external force must be from the same underground stratum as the spring and must have all the physical properties, before treatment, and be of the same composition and quality as the water that flows naturally to the surface of the earth.

Evian

[Heng]

Just like complaining that if you pay 5-25,000 a night for a hotel room, all the items in the mini bar should be free. No, they still charge you, and rightfully so.

[Jingjok]

Just like complaining that if you pay 5-25,000 a night for a hotel room, all the items in the mini bar should be free. No, they still charge you, and rightfully so.

Not sure what curency you're talking here. If you mean Baht 25,000 I agree, the items in the mini bar of course are charged for, but I bet there's a couple of bottles of water in the bathroom which are free.

Suggest a hotel, and I'll check.