Thailand ranks near bottom in English proficiency: survey

[Johnnie99]

EF, English First - one of the least effective teachers of English in Thailand. No surprise that their survey showed poor results - they must have surveyed their own 'graduates'.

Some of us, with considerable experience, are getting fed up with the way in which education here (yes, with all its undoubted faults) is constantly denigrated.

How about a deal of publicity praising the results of those who work hard to improve English standards?

[ginjag]

Thailand really deserves to be at the bottom of the list. It's not like Kazakhstan or Algeria are filled with English-speaking foreigners. The easiest way to fix this problem would be to stop threatening English teachers with jail for tutoring or volunteering without a work permit. Thailand is squandering a huge resource--many foreigners like myself have TESL qualifications that they are not using because they don't want to work full-time and they don't want to go to jail. Many others at least speak English fluently. I suppose the rationale for this is to protect Thai jobs, but that's not working. While it may be saving the jobs of a few Thai English teachers who don't know what they're doing, it is seriously undermining the entire business community. Will they get it in 2015?

How can Westerners be taking Thai job positions ??? when there is ZERO unemployment. So this BS attitude makes me more sure that Thai authorities try to keep kids English skills to a basic minimum.

[tetleythedog]

...and they will be the red light at the end of the train called ASEAN. Thailand is not really compatible to join the club. It is just amazing how they manage to ignore the writing on the wall. Oh I forgot- it's about not loosing face and if anything goes wrong they blame it on evil spirits. If it only were that simple...

Not the evil spirits mate ! They will (as you say) blame someone. They will put rhe blame on the Farang English teachers !!! They will never can accept the fact that they are also rans, they have no concept of practicality and logic !

[sprq]

Wouldn't the world be better if People (Native English Speakers) coming to a foreign land tries to learn their native language to communicate rather than expecting that the natives learn English and then ridicule them if they cannot speak english correctly.

It is a FOREIGN language... They are not supposed to know it at the first place. If they are trying to learn don't ridicule them. Think about how well can you speak their language.

I would love to see the statistics on how many different languages can a "Native English Speaker" would know compared to the Non-Native English Speaker in average.

Yes learning English is an advantage but doesn't mean that it is "Embarrassing" if you cannot speak english. It is already so easy for the native english speakers to travel around the world and communicate and yet in some countries, if they have to learn a slight bit of new words of a new language, they complain their @$$ out and ridicule them.

Is that the attitude all over the English Speaking countries or just the ThaiVisa Members? People are relating ones Inability to speak English as ignorance. Well that thought itself is Ignorance at its Best.

I agree. I taught English in Bangkok for two years. The differences between the two languages are enormous, especially with pronunciation, but really everything: phrasal verbs, compound nouns, the past tense of verbs is especially difficult because since verb change form in English but not in Thai. These together make it very difficult. Often, I think people get caught up in the strong accent of Thais and interpret it as poor English. I've met numerous professional Thais who've studied English for years, but don't speak well because they don't get the opportunity. OTOH, if you 'listen past' the accent and missing articles and verb forms, they are quite understandable.

It is not ATROCIOUS that the PM speaks broken English, it's hard for all of them.

It works both ways, I found. English speakers learning Thai are difficult for Thais to understand. Why, because of the pronunciation, compound noun usage, phrasal verbs, etc. It's difficult for both sides.

Yet other peoples with the same challenges do better than Thais. The fundamental facts are that Thais do not try to learn properly and they do not respect English. Even the most educated Thais are happy with just getting by in English, instead of really getting hold of the language, as so many other peoples try to do, the Arabs and the Gernans being prominent examples in my experience. It's a cultural attitude problem much more than a linguistic problem.

Edited November 7, 2013 by sprq

[keithcresswell]

Schoolclasses are too full... sometimes one teacher with fourty kids. Most of the education is merely reproducing. Improving the teacher's education would do much good. Facilitate it and challenge the teachers to improve themselves. The taxanomy of Bloom f.i. will not mean anything to the average teacher in Thailand.

The heaps and heaps of English courses often are done by unskilled staff.

FYI. Whilst on the subject of English 40 is spelt forty, not fourty. 5555

[sirchai]

I was at a bank recently and only 1 person there spoke a bit of English. The manager? None. This bank is located right in the middle of one of the largest populations of foreigners here in Thailand. Terrible.

Did you apply for a job there?-

[freebyrd]

Been to Cambodia three times recently. On average, their English is much better than Thai's. And to boot, they all seem to be attending classes after work. In general they are studying English, French, Thai and World History. All while working, all on their own Nickle.

Lived around the region last 30 years, would rate as follows:

1. Philippines - No surprises there

2. Cambodia - Living here now, working in a small small business, 95% of staff speak English. Industrious people, willing to work hard and learn.

3. Hong Kong

4. Vietnam

5. Thailand - I couldn't have communicated with 70% of my staff if i hadn't learned Thai. Thais on the whole are lazy, perhaps born of their apparent snobbery and the fact that they look down on their neighbours.

[bigbamboo]

Don't believe every study you see. The study is done by a company which promotes English training overseas, so they have an agenda and a product to sell. Thus their numbers do not have as much credibility as if the study had been done by an unbiased source.

I also question their numbers. Infoplease says there are 190 countries in the world. Wikipedia lists 88 English speaking states, 60 sovereign states and 28 non-sovereign states , leaving 102 non-English speaking countries, not the 60 cited in the study.

Some years ago the Bangkok Post showed that in most of the ASEAN countries the ethnic Chinese controlled most of the wealth (over 80% in Thailand), so, while English is very important the weakness in Thailand may not be that significant. China is a huge expanding country, so why not learn Chinese?

Starting in about 2016 Thailand can bring in all the English speakers that are willing to come here and that the companies in the country can afford to pay, so globalization works two ways. There are many companies that do not require a high level of English.

It would be better if the Thai had more fluent English speakers, but, as much of the English training is done by Thai teachers who use Thai to teach English (especially in elementary schools) and for the most part in environments where practice with a native speaker is not possible or impractical, getting a high level of fluency will take a long time, especially up country. Then again, shouldn't the measure be how many companies require how many good English speakers and what is the shortfall? Then try to train people with skills or potential to work in those companies?

"There are many companies who do not require a high level of English."

You may have a point there.

There's SC Asset for a start.

[Emdog]

I recall watching X Files here long time ago, dubbed into Thai. Scully, the strong female character, was given a soft Thai voice like one at immigration announcing next number. I taught myself Thai (with help from locals, not school) and my Thai is passable, probably similar to Yingluks. There are so many long term residents from foreign countries that can't speak a lick of Thai, then complain locals don't speak English. Hey, learn the local language! Yes ed system here sucks, and they do need to learn English if to raise themselves up internationally. If posters are living here and don't learn Thai (for which I would think there would be a strong motivation) don't knock Thais too harshly who would probably have less of a motivation in day to day life.

[ginjag]

Schoolclasses are too full... sometimes one teacher with fourty kids. Most of the education is merely reproducing. Improving the teacher's education would do much good. Facilitate it and challenge the teachers to improve themselves. The taxanomy of Bloom f.i. will not mean anything to the average teacher in Thailand.

The heaps and heaps of English courses often are done by unskilled staff.

FYI. Whilst on the subject of English 40 is spelt forty, not fourty. 5555

Same same---tonight-tonite..............honour- honor.....favour-favor............ Americans will make their own language, Gimme 5 gimme 10, you know what I mean man, OK Dude.

Again what spelling do Americans use English or THEIRS. No slant on the Americans only the twist on English.

[chooka]

Schoolclasses are too full... sometimes one teacher with fourty kids. Most of the education is merely reproducing. Improving the teacher's education would do much good. Facilitate it and challenge the teachers to improve themselves. The taxanomy of Bloom f.i. will not mean anything to the average teacher in Thailand.

The heaps and heaps of English courses often are done by unskilled staff.

FYI. Whilst on the subject of English 40 is spelt forty, not fourty. 5555

Depends where you come from. American English and English are different. I am constantly putting a line through the homework teachers send home for my son and correcting their American spelling. ( he has a teacher from the U.S which is corrupting him) I want my son to be able to spell in the real English style which is universal.

[bunuel]

If you had any contact with Japanese or Korean students, you would not be so surprised. As a professor of English composition in New York for 10 years at Fashion Institute of Technology, and the Japanese wrote better English compositions than their American colleagues. The explanation? Their previous education.

No matter avant-garde their appearance, the Japanese students always did their homework and came to class on time. They also didn't hang out with other Japanese, which meant they had to speak a lot more English.

The Koreans were good, but a lot more clannish, which impeded their development, for obvious reasons. By the way, the Chinese were almost as good as the Japanese. What impressed me was the capacity for individiual expression and thought in the Japanese and Chinese - i did not expect that in cultures where, as they say, rhe nail that sticks up gets hammered down!

Admittedly, both Japanese and Koreans have a hard time with,English phonetics, and do need encouragement to overcome their shyness!

As for the Thais - well, Thai students on a university level have poor work habits, and have clearly not learned a damned thing prior ro coming to university. I had only 2 Thai students in more than 1000 in 10 years in New York, but they had studied elsewhere , so they were a bit better. But i have taught in Thailand, and found it very depressing indeed. The students are neither proactive nor motivated, which means they have no interest in learning. I don't blame them - they were all generally polite and pleasant individuals, who are victims of an insular and backward culture which has no respect for education or the humanties in general.

Long term, Thailand is going to have big problems keeping up.

My RX: have Japanese PM Abe come to Thailand with a team of Japanese educators to revamp the Thai education from primary school on up. All deadwood has to go - which means all the university bosses and educational bureaucrats who have failed their country and the students. If the Japanese, Chinese and Koreans can do it, so can the Thais!/)

quote name="kevozman1" post="7009177" timestamp="1383780050"]

South Korea and Japan ahead of Thailand on this list? That does surprise me tbh.

[Hawkman]

55 and on the way to 60. The DECLINE over the past 20 years is staggering.

And yet...there are so many English teachers here now. Hmm.

And you're implying ....?

It's sure a profession that attracts some idiots, however, there are many quality teachers here, some fully qualified, some not. The best teacher we ever had, had to be let go as he didn't have a degree. Other teachers who have excellent credentials are hard to get due to the salary.

At the same time the Educational system of all grammar and nothing else doesn't help; the bad content in some English exam papers, the fact you have classes with 50 rowdy kids, who would rather be anywhere but your class and poor English pronunciation taught by some Thai teachers that are passed onto the students doesn't help.

The whole thing needs a shake up, but blaming all the farang teachers is pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[rotorbreeze]

IMO, some of the best english language speakers are bar girls......

Don't know any so I can't argue with you on that one.

Again..MONEY TALKS ENGLISH...seem the incentive is hungar to learn english..where the unversity groups are in the upper rich Thai society are not interested in learning English...as a English teacher in ABAC, the university student gather in their CONFORT Zone...where they share the learning of english...english at a grade 10 level...Thai language is the world language within Thailand....the super rich do not want the masses to be educated or realize their future depends on EDUCATION...the sun does revolve around Thailand...the rich want the poor to believe...while their families all attend European Universites to keep the power in the family...

All I can say this is positive for US here..the lovely girls of ISSAN learn english quickly...my new lady "CAT" can speak English and German well...she learned from her sister whom knows the Value of a second..even a third language..my hats off to her sister whom took the time to teach her sister...thank you...CAT wears no make-up or want to be portrayed as a Bar girl..her sister like a mother did screen me on my background...seems I do not spend my time in bars... rather in sports center and evenings in healthy meals creations.

How did I meet such a catch...networking with a english speaking sales lady at sports club whom she likes women also.FYI .. gay women do find women whom are whom are shy in meeting men...

[sirchai]

They need more Tony Blairs and some university students to teach English in six weeks. More agencies, where money's the only reason for both sides. They ( agencies, as well as corrupt school directors) don't give a flying one about the kids at all.

More cheap labor from the Philippines, as some superiors at Thai schools might think they speak a good English. Here's my own personal opinion I've formed after more than eight years working with Filipinos. Maybe one out of ten understands a native English speaker fully.

And they're only in for the money, which is really changing everything. I've met one I'd worked with seven years ago. When I was asking her: " How's it going?" she said: " I go eat steak." (Sorry no Filipino bashing here, was too often a topic on this forum, just my opinion.)

Then send those who'd like to become English teachers to an English speaking country to study for four years.

Let the students fail, teachers have to pass at least a TOEIC to be able to teach English here. Why do flight attendants have to obtain such a certificate, but not those who teach English???

Once they come back after four years, constantly using English, they do speak English well and they won't lose face anymore.-

Edited November 7, 2013 by sirchai

[newermonkey]

You Jane.. Me KHON Thai.

[stuartd1]

I think this survey is basically flawed, having lived / worked in both Malaysia and Singapore I cannot believe that Malaysia is no. 1!

[sirchai]

IMO, some of the best english language speakers are bar girls......

Don't know any so I can't argue with you on that one.

Again..MONEY TALKS ENGLISH...seem the incentive is hungar to learn english..where the unversity groups are in the upper rich Thai society are not interested in learning English...as a English teacher in ABAC, the university student gather in their CONFORT Zone...where they share the learning of english...english at a grade 10 level...Thai language is the world language within Thailand....the super rich do not want the masses to be educated or realize their future depends on EDUCATION...the sun does revolve around Thailand...the rich want the poor to believe...while their families all attend European Universites to keep the power in the family...

All I can say this is positive for US here..the lovely girls of ISSAN learn english quickly...my new lady "CAT" can speak English and German well...she learned from her sister whom knows the Value of a second..even a third language..my hats off to her sister whom took the time to teach her sister...thank you...CAT wears no make-up or want to be portrayed as a Bar girl..her sister like a mother did screen me on my background...seems I do not spend my time in bars... rather in sports center and evenings in healthy meals creations.

How did I meet such a catch...networking with a english speaking sales lady at sports club whom she likes women also.FYI .. gay women do find women whom are whom are shy in meeting men...

All I can say this is positive for US here..the lovely girls of ISSAN learn english quickly...my new lady "CAT" can speak English and German well...she learned from her sister whom knows the Value of a second..even a third language..my hats off to her sister whom took the time to teach her sister...thank you...CAT wears no make-up or want to be portrayed as a Bar girl..her sister like a mother did screen me on my background...seems I do not spend my time in bars... rather in sports center and evenings in healthy meals creations.

How did I meet such a catch...networking with a english speaking sales lady at sports club whom she likes women also.FYI .. gay women do find women whom are whom are shy in meeting men..

Cat must have a lot of experience then. Hope it isn't the same "Cat" my friend's dating.-

[maxx58]

Thailand really deserves to be at the bottom of the list. It's not like Kazakhstan or Algeria are filled with English-speaking foreigners. The easiest way to fix this problem would be to stop threatening English teachers with jail for tutoring or volunteering without a work permit. Thailand is squandering a huge resource--many foreigners like myself have TESL qualifications that they are not using because they don't want to work full-time and they don't want to go to jail. Many others at least speak English fluently. I suppose the rationale for this is to protect Thai jobs, but that's not working. While it may be saving the jobs of a few Thai English teachers who don't know what they're doing, it is seriously undermining the entire business community. Will they get it in 2015?

I agree. Thailand should eliminate the volunteering restriction on those that want to help teach English.

Actually, if they were smart they would incentivise those that want to volunteer, like waiving or extending the 90 day reporting, lowering the monetary requirements or fast-tracking yearly reporting to immigration, etc. There are plenty of creative ideas that could be implemented to expand the pool of willing English teachers.

[Bangel72]

More people should have access to an old farang dictionary.

Okay before people put 2 and 2 together and get a deviant 5, keep focus on the goals and just one of many solutions.

In Thailand we have many westerners often on early retirement visa's, some of them will have been teachers before, many will be very well educated and more still will be able to tell stories in English having had years of experience in this with their own children.

Often they will not want to work full time but they may want to supplement their income and contribute to their local community with a few afternoons here and there but are blocked by work permit requirements.

I am suggesting free teaching work permits (attached to a school or even the Thai government as a company) in exchange for say one afternoon a week at a local school allowing them to also legally provide private English tutoring as fits their lifestyle.

Maybe this already exists, but their is a potential vast resource pool already here that could be actively targeted.

Of course they would need to vet people to make sure they are suitable but that applies to everything especially when children are involved.

*Edit. Just Noticed some other comments along the same lines, but leaving my thoughts even though they are duplicates of earlier comments.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Bangel72

[somtampet]

Thailand beats only Kazhakistan in English proficiency. Wow! What a travesty of Thai leadership and educators for all these years and all these tourists. The best that Thais can do is beat Kazhakistan. What a squandering of resources, leadership and energy in Thailand. Unimanageable waste and lack of concern for its own people.

Dont forget that the english teachers must be very poor also

[razer]

EF is a for profit English language school and there could be a bias built into the test for commercial reasons. The test is virtually unknown except for news articles like this one, and I don't think it is academically recognized internationally. HOWEVER ... the numbers are in line with the OECD's English proficiency testing.

[sprq]

Schoolclasses are too full... sometimes one teacher with fourty kids. Most of the education is merely reproducing. Improving the teacher's education would do much good. Facilitate it and challenge the teachers to improve themselves. The taxanomy of Bloom f.i. will not mean anything to the average teacher in Thailand.

The heaps and heaps of English courses often are done by unskilled staff.

FYI. Whilst on the subject of English 40 is spelt forty, not fourty. 5555

Depends where you come from. American English and English are different. I am constantly putting a line through the homework teachers send home for my son and correcting their American spelling. ( he has a teacher from the U.S which is corrupting him) I want my son to be able to spell in the real English style which is universal.

You need to realise a few things about English. Firstly, there are two main forms, called British English and American English. Secondly, on the international stage, the two forms are equally valid. Thirdly, some countries and some institutions prefer one form above the other. Fourthly, most of the world doesn't know the difference between the two forms and doesn't care. Fifthly, it's up to you to choose which form you prefer, but you should not tell your son that American English is wrong, only that you yourself prefer British English.

[jojathai]

For those Fahrang who are being sarcastic, insulting and making fun of my country, if you don't like it here, get the F out, go back to your country. Why are you here?. I admit the fact that Thai people are not good at English. But there must be a lot of things here in Thailand that you Farang must like and appreciate besides those bar girls. So BE RESPECTFUL ! or go home. I have lived oversea for 25 years and traveled a lot so I know my country is one of the best place on earth.

[proovms]

the kids are brainwashed at an early age and all though there school days, they are tought that thailand is the center of the universe and there is not much of interest outside thailand show a thai child a map of the world and ask him to show you thailand and see what happens!!!!

They will point to England, the actual centre of the universe, hence the need to learn English.

[somtampet]

For those Fahrang who are being sarcastic, insulting and making fun of my country, if you don't like it here, get the F out, go back to your country. Why are you here?. I admit the fact that Thai people are not good at English. But there must be a lot of things here in Thailand that you Farang must like and appreciate besides those bar girls. So BE RESPECTFUL ! or go home. I have lived oversea for 25 years and traveled a lot so I know my country is one of the best place on earth.

I agree with u,if u arent a troll lol.

YOUR english is good,even bad swear words are known.

Thailand is a far nicer country to live than England, for me.The amount of guys that moan about thais are no good at english,but they wont learn thai.

[Anon999]

Thai's can learn English very quickly if the incentive is there. I know many Thai's in England going back to the 1980's and most of them soon became proficient very quickly. I also find that many up here in Isaan can speak reasonable English regardless of their job. However, you do get the comment when they misunderstand that, "English is not my 1st language". Having said that, native English speakers often get asked to teach them but only English English! They do not want to learn US English.

[newermonkey]

For those Fahrang who are being sarcastic, insulting and making fun of my country, if you don't like it here, get the F out, go back to your country. Why are you here?. I admit the fact that Thai people are not good at English. But there must be a lot of things here in Thailand that you Farang must like and appreciate besides those bar girls. So BE RESPECTFUL ! or go home. I have lived oversea for 25 years and traveled a lot so I know my country is one of the best place on earth.

So if you are so "worldly" why don't you understand English black humor and the English sense of sarcasm ?

Most of the Farang posts that say bad things about or joke about Thais are just poking fun at them.

Why would you want them to "go home"? they are having so much fun with such an "asking for it" target.

Edited November 7, 2013 by newermonkey

[proovms]

For those Fahrang who are being sarcastic, insulting and making fun of my country, if you don't like it here, get the F out, go back to your country. Why are you here?. I admit the fact that Thai people are not good at English. But there must be a lot of things here in Thailand that you Farang must like and appreciate besides those bar girls. So BE RESPECTFUL ! or go home. I have lived oversea for 25 years and traveled a lot so I know my country is one of the best place on earth.

Interesting hypocrisy. If you could stop differentiating us on race, that would be more respectful and we could all get along.

[sprq]

IMO, some of the best english language speakers are bar girls......

Don't know any so I can't argue with you on that one.

Again..MONEY TALKS ENGLISH...seem the incentive is hungar to learn english..where the unversity groups are in the upper rich Thai society are not interested in learning English...as a English teacher in ABAC, the university student gather in their CONFORT Zone...where they share the learning of english...english at a grade 10 level...Thai language is the world language within Thailand....the super rich do not want the masses to be educated or realize their future depends on EDUCATION...the sun does revolve around Thailand...the rich want the poor to believe...while their families all attend European Universites to keep the power in the family...

All I can say this is positive for US here..the lovely girls of ISSAN learn english quickly...my new lady "CAT" can speak English and German well...she learned from her sister whom knows the Value of a second..even a third language..my hats off to her sister whom took the time to teach her sister...thank you...CAT wears no make-up or want to be portrayed as a Bar girl..her sister like a mother did screen me on my background...seems I do not spend my time in bars... rather in sports center and evenings in healthy meals creations.

How did I meet such a catch...networking with a english speaking sales lady at sports club whom she likes women also.FYI .. gay women do find women whom are whom are shy in meeting men...

In this garbled rant, I see the phrase "as a English teacher in ABAC". Does that mean you? Please god no.