One of the eight Afghan men who took part in the celebration the gang rape of a young Swedish woman in a refugee camp in Mariannelundguide 2011 to now to receive a large compensation.

Seven-hour non-stop gang rape by 12 Afghan Muslim refugees was the ‘most gruesome rape marathon in Sweden’s history,’ say prosecutors. The rape was oral, anal, and vaginal, with up to three rapists in her at the same time. Only 7 of the 12 rapists were convicted. But now, one who wasn’t convicted, but passively participated by masturbating next to the woman’s face while his comrades raped her, is going to get more than $20,000 in compensation because of a clerical error.

The man was acquitted although he passively participated in the gang rape and stood by and masturbated next to the woman’s face while his comrades raped her. Because of an error by the Prosecutor not entering the correct prosecution rubric, the accomplice was acquitted and now has been awarded damages of SEK 130,000 (US$20,000) for the time he was detained.

Damages, as well as the man’s other expenses for accommodation and security, asylum process, etc. are to be borne by the Swedish taxpayers. The compensation, according to the Chancellor of Justice, is higher than normal due to the man’s asylum seeker status.

The other Muslim onlookers were clapping and cheering and calling the woman a “whore” and a “slut,” how Muslim men describe unveiled women. The victim is now confined to a wheelchair, suffering severe mental distress. The Swedish media concealed the ethnicity of the perpetrators and quickly removed the story. Swedish socialists say it would be “racist” to deport the rapists.

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2013/10/13/the-most-brutal-gang-rape-in-swedish-history-by-you-know-who-takes-a-shocking-turn-of-events/

i think the article is mainly the Jews having a dig at Muslims, but you see a familiar story in the UK as well

The Swedish media concealed the ethnicity of the perpetrators and quickly removed the story. Swedish socialists say it would be “racist” to deport the rapists.

I think this fuels the issue, rather then hide it?

The article is taken from an Israeli right-wing source, agreed, but the lax attitude of the authorities in both Sweden and Norway, plus the PC policies of the mass-circulation newspapers in Scandinavia is producing an extreme right attitude among a growing number of people. In the UK the BNP is gaining no ground. In Scandinavia such parties are recruiting on a daily basis - all because of failed immigration policies, seen as being pro- peasant muslims.

i think the article is mainly the Jews having a dig at Muslims, but you see a familiar story in the UK as well

The Swedish media concealed the ethnicity of the perpetrators and quickly removed the story. Swedish socialists say it would be “racist” to deport the rapists.

I think this fuels the issue, rather then hide it?

I think you are about to set off on a well trodden path where an unpalatable truth is met by a set menu response from apologists for the most evil ideology ever to disgrace the planet. You preempted points one and two on the list.

1) Hush up the news

2) Criticize the source, as if doing so magically alters material facts.

3) Attempt to change the subject by straw man arguments, name calling.

4) Make misleading and inappropriate moral equivalence comparisons.

5) Well this is a payback for historic wrongs/ The people who did it were themselves victims of racism or discrimination.

6) Appeal to authority to censor debate - Go to 1 rinse spin repeat.

Here are the facts, let points 1 to 6 commence.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/10/sweden-a-new-hell-for-women/

The graph shows a near perfect correlation between number of rapes and numbers of new culture enrichers.

i think the article is mainly the Jews having a dig at Muslims, but you see a familiar story in the UK as well

The Swedish media concealed the ethnicity of the perpetrators and quickly removed the story. Swedish socialists say it would be “racist” to deport the rapists.

I think this fuels the issue, rather then hide it?

I think you are about to set off on a well trodden path where an unpalatable truth is met by a set menu response from apologists for the most evil ideology ever to disgrace the planet. You preempted points one and two on the list.

1) Hush up the news

2) Criticize the source, as if doing so magically alters material facts.

3) Attempt to change the subject by straw man arguments, name calling.

4) Make misleading and inappropriate moral equivalence comparisons.

5) Well this is a payback for historic wrongs/ The people who did it were themselves victims of racism or discrimination.

6) Appeal to authority to censor debate - Go to 1 rinse spin repeat.

Here are the facts, let points 1 to 6 commence.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/10/sweden-a-new-hell-for-women/

The graph shows a near perfect correlation between number of rapes and numbers of new culture enrichers.

Just to avoid your "well worn path" approach...

you claim that Fjordman's graph shows a "near perfect correlation". Well if you plotted over the same time period, for instance, the retail cost of petrol rather than the number of immigrant arrivals (which I presume is the bar chart element) you could also claim a near "perfect correlation" with the number of reported rapes.

I am not belittling or defending rape or rapists in any shape or form, but perhaps you jump too quickly to a perfect correlation scenario without actually proving the link.

As ever correlation does not prove causation.

Also I think many people would take offence at your line that Islam is the "most evil ideology ever to disgrace the planet".

Having recently returned from a trip to Israel, the Childrens' Memorial at Yad Vashem powerfully drives home the scale of the mass murder committed by the Nazis who slaughtered some 17 million civilians. Communism probably clocked up 85-100 million deaths. Pol Pot in Kampuchea, Japan and its Three Alls Policy in 1930's China etc.

Sense of perspective required perhaps...?

I must say I'm almost pleasantly surprised, avoiding points 1 to 6 makes you sound like an old school liberal instead of a progressive, as progressives refer to themselves.

Superficially you are right regarding the dangers of correlation and causation. I would observe however that if it were petrol prices that were the driver for rape statistics you would not be seeing Swedish women in areas such as Rinkeby dying their hair black to avoid so much unwanted attention.

In 2005, the ethnologist Maria Bäckman in her study “Whiteness and gender” followed a group of ethnic Swedish girls in the suburb of Rinkeby near Stockholm. Natives there are now a minority of the inhabitants due to mass immigration. Several natural blondes stated that they had dyed their hair to avoid unwanted attention and sexual harassment. Being called “whore” is so common for white girls in certain schools that teachers no longer react to this. The problem certainly hasn’t become smaller in the years that have passed since this study.

I did say I was 'almost' pleasantly surprised, you did fall down a bit at the last. Where I stated 'the most evil ideology on the planet' you automatically filled in the gap and placed Islam as the subject. As we well know talking about Islam is like talking about light, the latter can be energy, can be a wave can be a particle, the former can be a religion it can be an ideology, it can be it's own legal system. We use a whole lexicon of moving target style prefixes to describe an abstract form. Moderate Islam, Islamist, fundamentalist, Salafist.

As this forum is supposed to allow a little more latitude for deviation from topic I will this once elaborate. The Islam of most Sufis, all Ahmadiya Muslims, those who abrogate (explicitly or otherwise) the violence, racism, misogyny and homophobia found in some interpretations of Islam are obviously not included in my characterization. Salafism would be a much better fit, but so too would the amoral and nihilistic street gangs who sail under the same flag of convenience.

One final piece of clarification, Muslims as people are not all represented by the negative traits attached to some forms of Islam, there is no such thing as original sin, I wouldn't for instance have lived in Germany had I believed in original sin.

Finally, the holocaust was obviously an even greater evil, but it does not lessen what the Swedes have had inflicted on them by their political elites. Of course there were Muslims in Albania who hid the Jews living amongst them from the Nazis, I don't know whether religious belief or humanity was the driver for this, but it is noted. Conversely the Mufti of Jerusalem was responsible for leading Balkan SS divisions who murdered half a million Jews.

Anyway enough of the detours, I agree 100% with Boater that denial and political correctness in the face of overwhelming evidence will lead to a massive outpouring of anger in Europe when the dam bursts, this by the way is a prediction not my hope.

The grey bar chart in your graph shows the number of residence permits granted that year; not just those granted to Muslims.

The red line in your graph is the total number of reported rapes; not the number of rapes committed by Muslim men.

Your graph shows a large increase in immigration in 1994, without a similar increase in rapes. The sharp increase from 2005 is explained by changes in the way the Swedish police deal with sex crimes and the widening of the legal definition of rape which happened in that year.

Sweden's rape rate under the spotlight

In Sweden there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics," she (Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm) says.

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

Also, in Sweden as everywhere else, most rapists are known to their victims.

Before using statistics such as these to 'prove' your allegations, you should check the facts behind them first.

Rape is a heinous crime, and I am not wanting to belittle the victims nor excuse the rapist in any way shape or form; no matter the race or religion of either.

I must say I'm almost pleasantly surprised, avoiding points 1 to 6 makes you sound like an old school liberal instead of a progressive, as progressives refer to themselves.

Superficially you are right regarding the dangers of correlation and causation. I would observe however that if it were petrol prices that were the driver for rape statistics you would not be seeing Swedish women in areas such as Rinkeby dying their hair black to avoid so much unwanted attention.

In 2005, the ethnologist Maria Bäckman in her study “Whiteness and gender” followed a group of ethnic Swedish girls in the suburb of Rinkeby near Stockholm. Natives there are now a minority of the inhabitants due to mass immigration. Several natural blondes stated that they had dyed their hair to avoid unwanted attention and sexual harassment. Being called “whore” is so common for white girls in certain schools that teachers no longer react to this. The problem certainly hasn’t become smaller in the years that have passed since this study.

I did say I was 'almost' pleasantly surprised, you did fall down a bit at the last. Where I stated 'the most evil ideology on the planet' you automatically filled in the gap and placed Islam as the subject. As we well know talking about Islam is like talking about light, the latter can be energy, can be a wave can be a particle, the former can be a religion it can be an ideology, it can be it's own legal system. We use a whole lexicon of moving target style prefixes to describe an abstract form. Moderate Islam, Islamist, fundamentalist, Salafist.

As this forum is supposed to allow a little more latitude for deviation from topic I will this once elaborate. The Islam of most Sufis, all Ahmadiya Muslims, those who abrogate (explicitly or otherwise) the violence, racism, misogyny and homophobia found in some interpretations of Islam are obviously not included in my characterization. Salafism would be a much better fit, but so too would the amoral and nihilistic street gangs who sail under the same flag of convenience.

One final piece of clarification, Muslims as people are not all represented by the negative traits attached to some forms of Islam, there is no such thing as original sin, I wouldn't for instance have lived in Germany had I believed in original sin.

Finally, the holocaust was obviously an even greater evil, but it does not lessen what the Swedes have had inflicted on them by their political elites. Of course there were Muslims in Albania who hid the Jews living amongst them from the Nazis, I don't know whether religious belief or humanity was the driver for this, but it is noted. Conversely the Mufti of Jerusalem was responsible for leading Balkan SS divisions who murdered half a million Jews.

Anyway enough of the detours, I agree 100% with Boater that denial and political correctness in the face of overwhelming evidence will lead to a massive outpouring of anger in Europe when the dam bursts, this by the way is a prediction not my hope.

Heavens above we are almost being civil...this will have to cease forthwith!

Personally, if pushed, I would label myself as a classical liberal with the Economist as my weekly scripture.

Always tiresome that correlation/causation dilemma as it does tend to crush endless wonderful theories on the anvil of applicable evidence.

Very glad that you recognize that not all muslims are the devil incarnate. Even a "leftish liberal/jumped up meglo etc" would conceed that islam has some very dark corners. Sadly the " massive outpouring of anger" is being carefully orchestrated based on large doses of myth and fable to achieve this very end. Don't know if you have visited Yad Vashem but it does a brilliant job of highlighting the background and progression towards the Shoah. What is a major takeaway is how easy it is to demonize an entire social group as a focus of frustration, bitterness and thus as victims in waiting. Both Jews and muslims have long been the focus of bigotry and discrimination in Europe, has much changed today?

Interesting your idea re original sin. Have a read the link below re anti-semitism in Germany today (and no it is not just a function of muslim communities) and the chilling question that always struck me on leaving such harrowing places as Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen or Dachau...what other European nation could have conceived, organized and executed the mass murder of civilians, both Jew and non-Jew, on the industrial scale that was required to meet their repellent objectives?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24852131

Sadly there has to be a sting in the proverbial tale and this comes with your "interesting" opinions re Amin al Husseini, the ex Mufti of Jerusalem as of 1937. The Nazis used him as a recruiter and propagandist, but he never "led Balkan SS divisions". What you are referring to are the Croat and Albanian Waffen SS formations which were supposed to be muslim divisions but Husseni failed to deliver and both were chronically understrength and the numbers were made up with Catholic/Orthodox recruits instead. The slaughterers of some 30,000 Jews in Serbia and Greater Croatia were largely the brutal puppet local regimes of the Ustase under Pavelic in Croatia and Nedic in Serbia. It was these largely Catholic and Orthodox "Christians" who were responsible for the murder of up to a million civilians, including Jews, during WW2. The muslim units within the Waffen SS, while undoubtedly responsible for murderous activities involving civilians, were largely employed by the Nazis to take on Tito's Partisans thus freeing up regular German formations.

Taliking of the Waffen SS it should be noted that of the approx. 1/2 million non-German recruits and conscripts, the single largest contingent, to their enduring shame, came from the Netherlands, where over 55,000 took up the call of the Waffen SS. Not many muslims in 1940's Holland....

Just to take up your last sentence - remember that the Netherlands was a colonial power pre-1939, ruling over the largest (by population) Muslim nation - Indonesia.

Colonialism tends to bring out a class of hatred that other nations cannot understand - the Belgians have a hatred of Congolese that seems irrational, so on. Obviously this is only a small part of the population, but it is specific between the colonial power and the colony.

(Probably didn't surface so much in the UK because we had so many colonies, so we just despised everyone)

I can't really explain why but when I read such stories, I wish those boys had a chance to meet me. I strongly doubt that they would continue celebrating and would dare to say that this woman was asking for what happened. I do not believe in 'an eye for an eye' but when I see b....es like these hurting women, I somehow feel the need to show them what it's like to be a helpless victim.

The grey bar chart in your graph shows the number of residence permits granted that year; not just those granted to Muslims.

The red line in your graph is the total number of reported rapes; not the number of rapes committed by Muslim men.

Your graph shows a large increase in immigration in 1994, without a similar increase in rapes. The sharp increase from 2005 is explained by changes in the way the Swedish police deal with sex crimes and the widening of the legal definition of rape which happened in that year.

Sweden's rape rate under the spotlight

In Sweden there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics," she (Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm) says.

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

Also, in Sweden as everywhere else, most rapists are known to their victims.

Before using statistics such as these to 'prove' your allegations, you should check the facts behind them first.

Rape is a heinous crime, and I am not wanting to belittle the victims nor excuse the rapist in any way shape or form; no matter the race or religion of either.

1st January 1994 was the day Swedish immigration controls fell in line with the EEA agreement. A large number of residency permits were granted that year as a result, presumably catching up with an existing backlog of people from EU/EEA nations - and as you point out no corresponding increase in the number of rapes was reported that year.

As for residence permits granted, sure they apply to everyone, but the demographics of Sweden have changed markedly due to immigration since 1970 so though not a perfect measure they do correpond to net immigration plus the birth - death rates, immigrant communities furthermore have higher birthrates.

Finally the change in the way Sweden records rape stats in 2005 would heavily skew the figures in favour of rape by someone known to the victim, which would (conveniently) correspondingly reduce the percentage of rapes by strangers. I would also observe that partner rapes may be less likely reported in immigrant communities than native Swedish ones due to factors such as language difficulties and so called 'honour' related violence.

So you now accept that your previously posted 'evidence' that the increase in reported rapes in Sweden was due to an increase in the Muslim population is completely untrue?

If not, provide real evidence to the contrary; not figures which the provider hopes no one will notice don't 'prove' what the provider says they do!

Just to take up your last sentence - remember that the Netherlands was a colonial power pre-1939, ruling over the largest (by population) Muslim nation - Indonesia.

Colonialism tends to bring out a class of hatred that other nations cannot understand - the Belgians have a hatred of Congolese that seems irrational, so on. Obviously this is only a small part of the population, but it is specific between the colonial power and the colony.

(Probably didn't surface so much in the UK because we had so many colonies, so we just despised everyone)

Bit lost here...do you mean colonialism breeds /enhances racism in the colonizers? Which is probably not that controversial a statement.

The 55,000 Dutch volunteers that joined the Waffen SS, or the 40,000 Belgians or 20,000 French, were not joining up to fight Muslims or people from the future Indonesia or Algeria or Congo, or Buddhists from Indochina. They were largely motivated by a fear of communism, often created by their religious leaders, similar to the role the Catholic church played in Spain during the Civil War to drum up support for Franco.

So you now accept that your previously posted 'evidence' that the increase in reported rapes in Sweden was due to an increase in the Muslim population is completely untrue?

If not, provide real evidence to the contrary; not figures which the provider hopes no one will notice don't 'prove' what the provider says they do!

Do you now accept that the 1994 increase in residence permits was due to EU/EEA immigration, not prime culture enriching territories such as Somalia, Pakistan and Afghanistan? This actually strengthens my evidence rather than weakens it as it suggests EU nationals are less likely to behave like animals. I suggest you examine the net birth rates minus death rates for Sweden and then work out the contribution of immigration to overall population growth to get a handle on how significant a factor immigration is on population growth.

Hint, the Muslim population has doubled in the last 14 years.

In Sweden, the Muslim population has doubled in the last 14 years, with Muslims now accounting for over 41 percent of Sweden’s total population growth. The growth reflects not only increasing Islamic immigration but also a disproportionately high birth rate in a nation in which the native birth rate is trending toward zero-growth.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/youth-rioting-in-sweden-its-the-muslims-stupid/#gt32lyEB9RAlO6Ky.99

So that's 41% of the residency permits in the graph. Consider that the remaining 59% many from the EU failed to go on a raping and pillaging spree in 1994 when there was a big influx as previously mentioned.

So you now accept that your previously posted 'evidence' that the increase in reported rapes in Sweden was due to an increase in the Muslim population is completely untrue?

If not, provide real evidence to the contrary; not figures which the provider hopes no one will notice don't 'prove' what the provider says they do!

Do you now accept that the 1994 increase in residence permits was due to EU/EEA immigration, not prime culture enriching territories such as Somalia, Pakistan and Afghanistan? This actually strengthens my evidence rather than weakens it as it suggests EU nationals are less likely to behave like animals. I suggest you examine the net birth rates minus death rates for Sweden and then work out the contribution of immigration to overall population growth to get a handle on how significant a factor immigration is on population growth.

Hint, the Muslim population has doubled in the last 14 years.

In Sweden, the Muslim population has doubled in the last 14 years, with Muslims now accounting for over 41 percent of Sweden’s total population growth. The growth reflects not only increasing Islamic immigration but also a disproportionately high birth rate in a nation in which the native birth rate is trending toward zero-growth.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/youth-rioting-in-sweden-its-the-muslims-stupid/#gt32lyEB9RAlO6Ky.99

So that's 41% of the residency permits in the graph. Consider that the remaining 59% many from the EU failed to go on a raping and pillaging spree in 1994 when there was a big influx as previously mentioned.

Still unconvincing on the stats. see below for breakdown of parents of children in Sweden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Number_of_persons_by_foreign_Swedish_background_in_2002-2011.jpg

We have been here several times before and the demographics don't change. There is little likelihood of Sweden having a "tidal wave" of muslims with projections for 2030 putting a muslim population of Sweden at 9.9%

Fertility rate currently 2.5 muslim to 1.8 non-muslim, by 2030 2.3 muslim to 1.8 non-muslim, so that does not work either.

Have another read of this excellent report from the Pew Centre:

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/future-of-the-global-muslim-population-regional-europe/

Wishful thinking and fun-filled correlations can't wish away solid data. Sorry!

And here is one for you from your favored Economist magazine. It demonstrates the high rates of unemployment among non-EU immigrants is rapidly creating an underclass, with all it's attendant problems. The idea of expanding the workforce to pay for social welfare just does not add up, but the Swedish government is in denial over this.

http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21570836-immigration-and-growing-inequality-are-making-nordics-less-homogeneous-ins-and

Mass immigration is posing serious problems for the region. For the Nordic countries to be able to afford their welfare states they need to have 80% of their adults in the workforce, but labour-force participation among non-European immigrants is much lower than that. In Sweden only 51% of non-Europeans have a job, compared with over 84% of native Swedes. The Nordic countries need to persuade their citizens that they are getting a good return on their taxes, but mass immigration is creating a class of people who are permanently dependent on the state.

It is now a few years since I lived in Sweden,however I still correspond with several Swedes and Danes living in the Skana region, which is th area most inhabited by the immigrants from beyond the EU.

There are areas of Malmo that are 'no-go' areas for the blond and pink skinned - block after block of high-rise apartments that were empty when I lived there. Now as bad as any of the London sink estates.

The immigrants come looking for a better life but very few make it. Most end up as being benefit-dependent, not because they want that life, but because they are unemployable in our society.

Take in skilled immigrants who stand a chance of having a job and a good life-style, but don't bring our standards down by allowing the poor third world immigrants in - rather help improve their own home countries.

I know nothing of Swedish immigration rules as they apply to non EEA nationals, nor the Swedish welfare system.

I do know that in a different topic when someone quoted figures for 'unemployed' immigrants in the UK they counted all non workers; which included schoolchildren, students, non working partners of workers and retired people!

Maybe the 'unemployed' figure for immigrants in Sweden is similar?

Whether that is the case or not, none of the 'evidence' provided by anyone shows that the increase in reported rapes has anything to do with immigration.

As shown earlier, it is simply down to the way rapes are reported in Sweden and the broadening of the Swedish legal definition of rape.

All else is pure conjecture by the prejudiced, desperate to justify their prejudice.

Two woman close to me have been raped, one by a family member, one by a stranger, and the effect on them was devastating. Years have passed, but they still suffer.

That small minded people are twisting some facts and ignoring others so they can use this most heinous crime to justify their small minded prejudice disgusts me.

I know nothing of Swedish immigration rules as they apply to non EEA nationals, nor the Swedish welfare system.

I do know that in a different topic when someone quoted figures for 'unemployed' immigrants in the UK they counted all non workers; which included schoolchildren, students, non working partners of workers and retired people!

Maybe the 'unemployed' figure for immigrants in Sweden is similar?

Whether that is the case or not, none of the 'evidence' provided by anyone shows that the increase in reported rapes has anything to do with immigration.

As shown earlier, it is simply down to the way rapes are reported in Sweden and the broadening of the Swedish legal definition of rape.

All else is pure conjecture by the prejudiced, desperate to justify their prejudice.

Two woman close to me have been raped, one by a family member, one by a stranger, and the effect on them was devastating. Years have passed, but they still suffer.

That small minded people are twisting some facts and ignoring others so they can use this most heinous crime to justify their small minded prejudice disgusts me.

So you even doubt the data compiled by the Economist, I can hardly see them including school children and the retired in unemployment statistics. I do see how you have to figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and shout la la la in order to drown out such a devastating indictment of Sweden's immigration policy.

As for disgust, I guess our moral compasses work differently. Yes, I'm disgusted with those who carried out the rape in the op, they should be put down like rabid dogs. My main contempt lies with those who have brought about a situation where there is clearly a major problem but it is hushed due to a political correctness bordering on the totalitarian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ

To pick up one one point, Jews are leaving Malmo in droves due to antisemitism by the usual suspects. When questioned about attacks on Jewish people the mayor of Malmo washed his hands of the matter stated they should not dress in a manner that identifies them as such and should distance themselves from the actions of Israel. Meanwhile a Muslim women allegedly had her head covering removed by a man assaulting her, low and behold sundry Swedish celebs dress in Muslim headscarves out of solidarity. Meanwhile a Swedish woman traumatised and left in a wheelchair due to being raped by immigrants watches as one of her attackers gets awarded a large sum of money courtesy of the Swedish taxpayers, which presumably include her own family.

Indeed disgust does not even begin to cover it.

I have not cast doubt upon The Economists data, but on the way you have presented it to suit your agenda.

One also has to ask why there is such high unemployment amongst this particular group; their unwillingness to work, or the unwillingness of employers to give them jobs?

Speak to any first generation immigrant from South Asia or the Caribbean who came to the UK in the 1950's and 60's and you will have your answer.

According to you;

• some Muslims are rapists, therefore all Muslims are rapists;
• some Muslims are terrorists, therefore all Muslims are terrorists;
• some Muslims oppress women, therefore all Muslims oppress women;
• those who argue differently are ignoring the truths;
• etc., etc.

As a student of twentieth century history, such rants are depressingly familiar.

This topic is turning into a cess pit of hate; so I will now leave it for you and your fellows to fester in.

If the culprits had not been Muslims, would this topic have been posted?

I merely ask.

If the culprits had not been Muslims, would this topic have been posted?

I merely ask.

Of course it wouldn't.

If the culprits had not been Muslims, would this topic have been posted?

I merely ask.

Funnily enough I find myself asking a similar question when it comes to the numerous threads concerning Israel. Coming to think of it there were a couple of threads concerning rapes in India, which if memory serves attracted quite a bit of attention due to their horrific nature.

If the culprits had not been Muslims, would this topic have been posted?

I merely ask.

Funnily enough I find myself asking a similar question when it comes to the numerous threads concerning Israel.

Links?

I have not cast doubt upon The Economists data, but on the way you have presented it to suit your agenda.

One also has to ask why there is such high unemployment amongst this particular group; their unwillingness to work, or the unwillingness of employers to give them jobs?

Speak to any first generation immigrant from South Asia or the Caribbean who came to the UK in the 1950's and 60's and you will have your answer.

According to you;

• some Muslims are rapists, therefore all Muslims are rapists;
• some Muslims are terrorists, therefore all Muslims are terrorists;
• some Muslims oppress women, therefore all Muslims oppress women;
• those who argue differently are ignoring the truths;
• etc., etc.

As a student of twentieth century history, such rants are depressingly familiar.

This topic is turning into a cess pit of hate; so I will now leave it for you and your fellows to fester in.

As expected, a whistlestop tour of tactics listed 1 to 6 in my first post, though I must commend you on a particularly fine example of point 3, straw man burning and name calling.

You assertions bullet pointed above claiming some equates to all has no basis in fact whatsoever and is directly contradicted by my post number six in this very thread. Sweden by it's very nature adopts similar 'debating' tactics to those you use; of course there is no clear individual source of data that proves my suspicions, because the information is deliberately not kept that would do so, a case in point is prison populations. I can amply demonstrate a large over representation of Muslims in prison for France, Belgium, Spain the UK and sundry other Countries. It is quite reasonable to suspect Sweden is no different and hence for many types of crime there is also an over representation.

Anyway I too get sick and tired of this same merry-go-round, but will round up with a quote from Conservative Muslim Baroness Warsi.

"Some Pakistani Muslims see white girls as fair game and third class citizens".

I'm done for this thread, but would observe that by silencing debate and excessive political correctness make a backlash affecting the innocent actually more rather than less likely.

They say, No news is good news. At the same time

Good news is NO news. (That one took a lot of thought.)

Human nature seems to need someone to demonise. The Jews were demonised for hundreds of years, and some of that still hangs on. More recently it's the Muslims.... and, if you believe some of the posters on this forum, the Catholic Church.

I can live with it, and so, I'm sure, can Dan..... but can the Muslims?

.....

Speak to any first generation immigrant from South Asia or the Caribbean who came to the UK in the 1950's and 60's and you will have your answer.

.....

The West Indian immigrants came to work - by invitation.

The first large influx of Indian immigrants that I recall were the Ugandan Asians, fleeing Idi Amin. They went the classic route, runnung the little corner shop all the hours available.

They all improved British society, they were not interested in social hand-outs. Unfortunately this gave a misleading misconception of immigrants to our left-leaning do-gooders.

As a left-leaning do-gooder I take exception to that. I lived in Derby in the 60s when the first tranche of immigrants arrived. I lived in what is now the immigrant area of town. The reason it is now the immigrant area of town is that all the white folks ran away.

Up until recently my job took me into corner shops and sub post offices. I remember visiting one where the lady behind the counter apologised that her hubby was away taking the kids to after school maths classes while on the other side of the counter was a great white whale with 3 brats hanging off her waiting for her child benefits. I'll leave you to guess the ethnic origin of the postmistress.

As far as Afghanistan is concerned it's been invaded (and deserted) by Alexander, Genghis, Timur, Britain (twice or maybe 3 times), Babur, the Soviets and latterly the US.

All invasions previous to the latest failed. You'd think we'd have learnt our lesson by now.

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Speak to any first generation immigrant from South Asia or the Caribbean who came to the UK in the 1950's and 60's and you will have your answer.

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The West Indian immigrants came to work - by invitation.

The first large influx of Indian immigrants that I recall were the Ugandan Asians, fleeing Idi Amin. They went the classic route, runnung the little corner shop all the hours available.

They all improved British society, they were not interested in social hand-outs. Unfortunately this gave a misleading misconception of immigrants to our left-leaning do-gooders.

If I may inject a few historical facts:

during WW2 British India (ie today's India, Pakistan and Bangladesh) provided 2.5 million volunteers who fought in every major campaign. Indeed the liberation of Thailand was conducted by the 9th Indian Division.

Just as West Indians were incentivised to come to the UK, so Pakistanis were to work in the textile factories of the NW (Bradford, Manchester etc), the food processing plants in Slough and car assembly plants in Luton. Professionals from Pakistan flocked to work in the NHS in the 1960's.

Bangladeshis largely come from the Sylhet reegion and moved in the 1970's post the bloody Bangladesh War and the poverty and overcorowding of their home areas. The next time you settle down for an Indian meal in the UK take the time to talk to the staffa nd there is a very high probability that it is Bagladeshi-owned and run.

No one is suggesting that all immigrants are good and make a contribution (just look around Thailand), but most migrants move to better themselves and the prospects for their children , and often deliver tangible benefits to their host nations. Where would the UK be today without the chance to "go for an Indian"?

They also came to work in the mill towns of W. Yorkshire. To work in an industry that was already in it's death throes, but the capitalist mill owners were too greedy to see that. My paternal grandmother was from a mill owning family, she was disowned by them when she married her working class boyfriend. Most Hindus who arrived in Dewsbury did not stay long, and any Thornhiller drinking in town better have enough for the taxi home, if he wants to do the 2.5 mile walk unscathed. Police attitude is to not make "a fuss,"