ATMs on Bangkok's Wireless Road hacked, card users say

[Head Snake]

To say that covering your actions while inputting your PIN is the only way to protect you could be false. Thiefs most likely can put a keypad cover over the ATMs keypad.

For the person who says they can spot adhesion residue, maybe the thieves know this too and use a solvent to clean the adhesion residue.

Basically, you are going to have to inspect the whole ATM environment if you can. Save your receipts (always ask for one) for each transaction. And.. not be rushed.

My story of ATM theft involves the Bangkok airport. I tried to withdraw money; but, the machine did not spit out my money. It gave me a printed receipt but I stupidly did not read it and at that time never collected receipts - which was my mistake. All the bad vibes were there: rushed to make a flight, a person lines up behind me (maybe trying to get me to act rushed), flight home may cause failure to remember and loss of receipt. Anyways, I did see that 2 withdrawals were performed.

Did I pursue the matter? no. The bank in my resident country said I needed a police report. WHAT??? I'm supposed to fly back (paying more for airfare than the withdrawals). I could not pursue the matter. Luckily, my company pays for my vacation; therefore, I felt that I got stung but at least there was some money paid to me for my vacation so it eased the pain.

[pookiki]

Bangkok Bank uses a chip that would prevent this type of fraud. Why can't all banks in Thailand (and worldwide for that matter) adopt the same technology??

[caughtintheact]

Thai social media is on fire with this - we got a few warnings yesterday during the day. It seems like, based on the localization (Wireless Road, a few ATMs: Kasikorn and Bangkok Bank - a stone's throw from the Lumphini District Police Station ) that several ATMs were skimmed and PINs compromised, quickly sold/transferred to the Ukraine, where they were used at a potentially complicit bank.

lomatopo, did the reports specifically say that the culprits were using skimmers?

Seems to me that it is the responsibility of ATM users to check for cameras and skimmers before putting their cards in an ATM and pressing buttons. After all, it is our money. (flame away)

I have not been abler to find any indications that there are devices that can detect skimmers and shut down the ATM and notify the bank, though someone is probably working on making one...it would be a gold mine.. Until then here are a few tips on self-protection:

• There are many web sites that tell us how to manually detect an ATM skimmer, like this one. http://www.bbt.com/bbtdotcom/financial-education/protecting-your-identity/atm-skimming.page
• To block cameras from stealing PINs cover up the ATM keyboard as you press the PIN numbers. A camera is often used in conjunction with the skimmer, because most skimmers only grab the data on the magnetic strip of the credit/ATM card.
• Using a more secure ATM in a bank can help prevent getting "skimmed".
• It is far better to avoid getting skimmed than to worry about whether or not the bank will reimburse.

[banglassie]

This pisses me off, specially the story of the guy in Pattaya who went to 3 police stations + bank and got no help. Luckily I seldom encounter this attitude, but when I do it reminds me where I am... Seems the "bank will take responsibility" goes for Thais and Thais only. After all they are the best and smartest people in the world. And for sure the white fat ass got more money somewhere, so no need to bother about him/her...

I would have read up on the laws, print the pages saying they should refound money, called Bkk post, The Nation and even Thairat and others and then go to the police/bank again with some journalist. If no journalist would be willing, then I would ask a friend make a fake license for a TV station, news agency and then go visit them with a camera in their face.. If they don't have to care about the law then who says I have to...

BTW, Anyone know if it's possible to open an account in let's say Malaysia or Singapore without working there?

Would like to have an account closer to Thailand, but still not within Thailand.

Edited November 8, 2013 by banglassie

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Bangkok Bank uses a chip that would prevent this type of fraud. Why can't all banks in Thailand (and worldwide for that matter) adopt the same technology??

BKK bank offers two varieties of ATM/debit cards -- one with the chip technology, and the other with just the traditional magnetic strip.

The downside of the BKK Bank chip card is that it cannot be used with any other Thai bank ATMs at present, nor can it be used in many places outside Thailand.

But yes, it is arguably more secure.

[godden]

slightly off topic but well worth a mention, wife just told me her friend was traveling to Nan in north Thailand with her Thai husband when they stopped for gas, after leaving the gas station he noticed some plastic flapping from his filler cap, on inspection found it to be a bag of yaa baa which he threw away, 1 kilometer on was stopped by police road block and asked to open his filler cap, no yaa baa so searched the car. What are your thoughts?

[Scott]

My thoughts are that you are correct, it is off-topic.

[Pib]

Always remember banking consumer protection in Thailand may not (probably won't) meet your expectations....expectations based on your home country consumer protection...but you ain't in your home country. TIT

[pookiki]

Bangkok Bank uses a chip that would prevent this type of fraud. Why can't all banks in Thailand (and worldwide for that matter) adopt the same technology??

BKK bank offers two varieties of ATM/debit cards -- one with the chip technology, and the other with just the traditional magnetic strip.

The downside of the BKK Bank chip card is that it cannot be used with any other Thai bank ATMs at present, nor can it be used in many places outside Thailand.

But yes, it is arguably more secure.

Though the chip technology provides a bit of inconvenience, the inconvenience is worth the security of knowing I am preventing this type of fraud. I don't know why people in Thailand would not lobby their banks to do the same as Bangkok Bank. Bangkok Bank also has an sms service that will notify you of any transaction on your account in excess of 200 baht. Cost - 10 baht per month. I understand that other banks offer the same service. In addition, I have two credit cards from banks in the US along with internet banking. I am notified by email for every transaction made with these cards. You can also get an extra level of security when using a Visa credit card to verify your transactions on the internet. To the greatest extent possible, I avoid using my credit cards. With the chip in my Bangkok Bank ATM/debit card, I feel secure.

[pookiki]

Bangkok Bank uses a chip that would prevent this type of fraud. Why can't all banks in Thailand (and worldwide for that matter) adopt the same technology??

BKK bank offers two varieties of ATM/debit cards -- one with the chip technology, and the other with just the traditional magnetic strip.

The downside of the BKK Bank chip card is that it cannot be used with any other Thai bank ATMs at present, nor can it be used in many places outside Thailand.

But yes, it is arguably more secure.

Though the chip technology provides a bit of inconvenience, the inconvenience is worth the security of knowing I am preventing this type of fraud. I don't know why people in Thailand would not lobby their banks to do the same as Bangkok Bank. Bangkok Bank also has an sms service that will notify you of any transaction on your account in excess of 200 baht. Cost - 10 baht per month. I understand that other banks offer the same service. In addition, I have two credit cards from banks in the US along with internet banking. I am notified by email for every transaction made with these cards. You can also get an extra level of security when using a Visa credit card to verify your transactions on the internet. To the greatest extent possible, I avoid using my credit cards. With the chip in my Bangkok Bank ATM/debit card, I feel secure.

[walkerun]

I had an account with Bangkok Bank in Thapae Road, Chiang Mai. Seven illegal skims of the ATM machine I used reduced my account by 315,000 baht.

The Bank gave me no advice other than, "Report to the police"

The Bank did not know if my loss was covered by the Bangkok Bank.

The Bank eventually allowed me to see 4 of the 7 CCTV camera records (three different people).

The police did not record my report

The police lawyer eventually forced the police to record my case and act on my report. They sent one letter

The Bank did not reply

The lawyer did not reply to my requests to take further action. The Police said they have to wait for the reply

Another lawyer told me to go to the Tourist Police: they had relocated several times

When the Tourist Police were located, most were sleeping over clear desks

The Tourist Police told me to report the case to the City Police - back to square one!

The Bank Manageress and Deputy rudely avoided me and put me on to a new girl who had been in the bank only two weeks. She wanted me to start the process again by filling in the form I had completed months earlier!

Please advise me. Is there anything else I can do to regain my 315,000 baht (£7,000)?

walkerun

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't know why people in Thailand would not lobby their banks to do the same as Bangkok Bank.

Or the better question might be... why hasn't the banking industry in Thailand, including their governing agency at the Bank of Thailand, adopted or pushed for a national, unified secure ATM card system that would work across all the Thai retail banks???

In many other areas, they seem to have no difficulty colluding together. But ATM and card security doesn't seem to be a very high priority here... Perhaps because most of the time, it's the cardholders (and not the banks) that get stuck for the losses.

Edited November 8, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I had an account with Bangkok Bank in Thapae Road, Chiang Mai. Seven illegal skims of the ATM machine I used reduced my account by 315,000 baht.

The Bank gave me no advice other than, "Report to the police"

The Bank did not know if my loss was covered by the Bangkok Bank.

The Bank eventually allowed me to see 4 of the 7 CCTV camera records (three different people).

The police did not record my report

The police lawyer eventually forced the police to record my case and act on my report. They sent one letter

The Bank did not reply

The lawyer did not reply to my requests to take further action. The Police said they have to wait for the reply

Another lawyer told me to go to the Tourist Police: they had relocated several times

When the Tourist Police were located, most were sleeping over clear desks

The Tourist Police told me to report the case to the City Police - back to square one!

The Bank Manageress and Deputy rudely avoided me and put me on to a new girl who had been in the bank only two weeks. She wanted me to start the process again by filling in the form I had completed months earlier!

Please advise me. Is there anything else I can do to regain my 315,000 baht (£7,000)?

walkerun

This post sounds like the more normal, common response to cases of alleged ATM and bank fraud by the authorities here...

For the poster, you'd want to contact this Thai government organization to pursue your complaint:

http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialLiteracy/Pages/FCC%20Strategy.aspx

It's a relatively brand new agency... Little in the way of any reports I've seen thus far about just how effective they have been/will be in such cases.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank also has an sms service that will notify you of any transaction on your account in excess of 200 baht. Cost - 10 baht per month. I understand that other banks offer the same service.

For the Bangkok Bank SMS service mentioned called, SMS Account Alert, for amounts of at least Bt500, it is only available on accounts in one person's name; this particular SMS service is not available on joint accounts. Would be nice if it was available for joint accounts but something about Thai laws/Bank of Thailand regulations supposedly don't allow it on joint accounts...or that is what a Bangkok Bank POC once said on ThaiVisa. May be the same for other joint accounts at other Thai banks. But other Bangkok Bank SMS services like the "SMS Remittance Alert" for "incoming wire transfers" will work on joint accounts. See this Bangkok Bank webpage for more info, Terms & Conditions, etc., on their various SMS alerts available.

[don123123]

So all these people got their money back did they??

I hope so

[Bpuumike]

There is one rule that any ATM user must adhere to so as to minimise "Skimming". For the hundreth time please note:- "Cover the key pad when entering your PIN number" (

(Edit spelling)

Always, and try to use an ATM outside a bank branch.

[steelepulse]

I just got an online alert about possible fraudulent activity on my overseas debit card, and checking my statement, sure enough the Ukranian gang was hard at work draining my account. The only time I used this card in the last few months was a week ago at the kbank atm next to 7/11. I mentioned this to Mrs SP and she said she just saw on the Thai morning news that the Ukranian guys have hit a lot of Thai kbank customers and that kbank was reimbursing the fraudulent activity. My overseas bank is also going to reimburse.

( I posted the above in the Phuket forum before this thread had started).

[Pib]

When I use an ATM I look around for anything suspicious with the ATM and then get real, real close to the ATM when entering my PIN in addition to using one hand to partially block the downward view of the numbers I'm entering with the other hand....I get so close I need to push my fat belly off the keypad to enter my PIN.

[xavierr]

I was alarmed when I saw this news on Thai TV this morning. I checked my account just in case.

[Motoon]

There are new ultra thin skimmer cards coming out of Europe. But they also need a camera to see the pin number.

http://gizmodo.com/5928513/you-cant-even-see-the-latest-atm-card-skimmers

Not necessarely...

[umbanda]

clever are those theft. they can become rich in their doings. they are more hi-tech than banks

You are right, and I explained that in other posting about debit/credit cards scams. I advise people to check their present and past banks and credit cards statement, and do not feel so bad is they find small debits for years.....and they are just waiting for the chance to make the BIG debit.

For those people scamming using a computer is their 24 hours job!..and they are masters in doing that!

[truckerjoe]

He tried to allay concerns, by saying: "People can use their ATMs as usual. If any suspicious transaction is detected, banks will take immediate attention. Besides, banks are responsible for any damages caused by skimming."

Really? Thats not what they told me....

I has 42,000 baht removed from my account in Pattaya after being distracted by a guy from Eastern bloc area- might be same team. anyway, I ended up going to 3 separate Police stations and none of them would complete a Police Report. also Siam Commercial Bank said that I would not get any money back so just dropped it. so this guy who says the banks will return should fight on our behalf because I am so tired at the laziness and uncaring attitude of the whole system.

Yeah good luck trying to get reimbursed from a Thai bank after being skimmed. After blaming you for forgetting you had actually withdrawn the missing money, then suggesting it might have been withdrawn by your girlfriend or wife, they will usually give you a number to call at head office, only problem is nobody answers the phone.... This is what happened to a friend of mine who lost B50.000, he eventually gave it up as a lost cause!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As I mentioned above...but it bears repeating...

Anyone who's a victim of ATM or bank fraud should contact:

--the head office of the bank involved

--the local Thai police station with jurisdiction

--and perhaps most importantly, the new Financial Consumer Protection Center that's been created by the Bank of Thailand, and is supposed to act as an advocate for victims in such situations.

http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialLiteracy/Pages/FCC%20Strategy.aspx

Edited November 8, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[NRGF]

My British and two Dutch cards all require that I inform them on line in advance of the countries I am going to visit and the expected dates.

Maybe not fool proof but its got to help.

[Gil]

He tried to allay concerns, by saying: "People can use their ATMs as usual. If any suspicious transaction is detected, banks will take immediate attention. Besides, banks are responsible for any damages caused by skimming."

Really? Thats not what they told me....

I has 42,000 baht removed from my account in Pattaya after being distracted by a guy from Eastern bloc area- might be same team. anyway, I ended up going to 3 separate Police stations and none of them would complete a Police Report. also Siam Commercial Bank said that I would not get any money back so just dropped it. so this guy who says the banks will return should fight on our behalf because I am so tired at the laziness and uncaring attitude of the whole system.

Same happened to me: Eastern bloc, distraction technique, almost same amount in purchases from my account..

But I was in Canada and the bank did not charge me. anything.

[caughtintheact]

Always, and try to use an ATM outside a bank branch.

At 3 am there is no reason to think that an ATM outside a bank branch (or the head office for that matter) is completely secure. Why would anyone think that no one would install a skimmer or camera at any time if they can remain unobserved long enough?

[Bpuumike]

My British and two Dutch cards all require that I inform them on line in advance of the countries I am going to visit and the expected dates.

Maybe not fool proof but its got to help.

My UK bank has recently stopped that requirement but they do repay any fraudulence.

[gk10002000]

Just have to be careful and not keep too much money in that account. Of course 100,000 Thai Baht is less than $3,000 USD which is about what I start my Thailand vacations off with. I move money over to that account later if I need it. In case of theft or "kidnapping" I will gladly give them the PIN and the money and hopefully that calls it quits for the night. My bank does not allow me to use ATMs to transfer money into my checking account so they can only get what I have in there.

[build6]

One has to assume that the ATM machine in Kiev, or wherever, needs to perform a communication to 'Visa Central' or somewhere distant, to determine that there are funds available and a valid PIN has been entered.

Surely a transaction 20 minutes earlier, some 10,000 km (or less) distant, should raise a flag and block the secondary withdrawal attempt.

Or is the system so dumb as to not treat such occurrences as odd, or it doesn't even bother checking anything.

( I know for a fact they seem quick to block withdrawals if you make too many in a day or there are insufficient funds..... is it a case of the banks protecting themselves more than the customers?)

I should be able to supply my bank with a yes/no list of countries where I may or may not use my ATM card.

No, I doubt if I will be going to Afghanistan or Pakistan any-time soon!

My Singapore bank requires that I inform them in advance if I want to use my Singapore ATM card outside Singapore. If I don't do that, it won't work.

Yes, where 'anything' is concerned, the Singaporeans are far smarter than the Thais, except of course when the RTP are involved.

This wasn't pre-emptive. There was a major incident about a year back in Singapore (ATM skimmers installed in Singapore; withdrawals made in Malaysia). The bank had to swallow the loss (no blame could be pinned on the cardholders - it's not like they lost their cards and failed to report it, after all). After that all the banks rolled out various protective measures.

That's what's made the difference here (that the banks had to swallow the loss).

From the earlier post it looks like at least one Thai bank is trying to dodge this (though with enough media attention this may not work?). If any Thai bank takes the initiative to implement consumer-protection measures, should seriously consider moving your money over to them! If that happens they'd probably all start doing it (which is what is needed)

Edited November 11, 2013 by build6

[build6]

slightly off topic but well worth a mention, wife just told me her friend was traveling to Nan in north Thailand with her Thai husband when they stopped for gas, after leaving the gas station he noticed some plastic flapping from his filler cap, on inspection found it to be a bag of yaa baa which he threw away, 1 kilometer on was stopped by police road block and asked to open his filler cap, no yaa baa so searched the car. What are your thoughts?

wow

(a) well done to their friend that they noticed it, and just in time! they really dodged a bullet there (perhaps literally!!)

( which part of north thailand? I might be heading north... and I doubt I'd have noticed something like that myself.