Singapore, Malaysia tough rivals to Thailand's quest to be medical hub

[webfact]

MEDICAL TOURISM
Singapore, Malaysia tough rivals to Thailand's quest to be medical hub
BAMRUNG AMNATCHAROENRIT
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THAILAND SHOULD prove itself more if it wants to become a regional hub for medical tourism in the long term, competing with arch-rivals Singapore and Malaysia.

One major barrier to this quest is politics. If political demonstrations become chaotic to the point of closing airports, this will undermine patients' confidence, and they might decide to go elsewhere, said Pongsakorn Chindawatana, a professional doctor and also senior director of communication at Bangkok Dusit Medical Services.

So far, there have been no cancellations of trips to the company's hospitals. The political scenario at present is still considered acceptable. However, the company will have to keep monitoring the situation closely over the next few months, he said.

Speaking after a seminar on "Business Power for the Future of Thai Tourism" held by the Department of Tourism, he said Thailand was second to no other country in the region for the quality of its medical services. The country's medical advancement is also internationally recognised for its high standards. It is essential for the government and private sectors to make a joint effort to promote this service on the global stage.

It is already true Thailand is a hub, but only geographically. So far, there is no clear evidence to show that any country in the region, whether Singapore, Malaysia or Thailand, will succeed in the goal of becoming such a hub permanently. All three nations are still scrambling to adopt marketing strategies to publicise their services and claim status as the regional medical-service destination.

Singapore has a competitive edge as a Chinese-speaking nation, which makes it attractive to the large number of affluent mainland Chinese. Also, the island nation has earned a reputation for its medical services founded by Britain during its colonial period, boosting patients' confidence. Most important, it has marketed these services aggressively.

Also, Singapore is a rich country. Pongsakorn said it was most likely that the country would expand its service regionally, especially into Thailand, by establishing hospital networks or other forms of medical services, after the opening of the Asean Economic Community (AEC) in 2015.

Meanwhile Malaysia, as a Muslim nation, has kept in touch with Arab patients. These two examples, he said, show that cost may not be a key factor for some foreign tourist groups when they decide where to go. They will choose to go to the country where they feel most comfortable, especially in terms of culture and language. But Thailand has its own attractions. The Kingdom is rich in natural tourism resources, from beach to mountainous destinations, where patients can recuperate after their treatments. Friendly service and good hospitality are also magnets.

Beyond Bangkok, provincial choices include Chiang Mai and Phuket.

In terms of cost, Thailand is also 10-15 per cent cheaper than those other two nations. More important, 35 private hospitals here have been certified by The Joint Commission, a US-based accreditation organisation for healthcare services. This will help strengthen confidence among patients, especially from the United States and Europe.

Pongsakorn said Thailand should keep its focus on the Asean market, which shows big potential, especially after the AEC opening. Because of their less advanced medical development, the number of people from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia coming to Thailand for treatment is on the rise."We have no need to adjust ourselves much to serve people from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia because they share similarities with Thai culture," he said.

-- The Nation 2013-11-11

[clockman]

The Thai nurse, does not have the language skills, Also there is a short fall of nurses in Thailand. About 30,000! So they are just dreaming!

[NongKhaiKid]

What chance the call for Thailand to prove itself will fall on deaf ears as the general attitude is the country doesn't have anything to prove to anyone, it's the rest of the world that's out of step.

Roll on the AEC day of awakening.

[jackr]

Yes, good medical services (albeit doctors that won't be questioned), that's not the issue... it's the baggage that drags Thailand down, and it probably wouldn't be where it is now, medically, minus the dodgy totty and beaches.

[RickeyParkany]

The Thai nurse, does not have the language skills, Also there is a short fall of nurses in Thailand. About 30,000! So they are just dreaming!

Excellent point, clockman...important fact, indeed; but a vast majority of *Quality Medical-Tourists* will be priced out of the S'pore services: as compared w/USA from where I have become exiled, the choice for Thailand vs. S'pore is a *no-brainer*...I predict Thailand to be Med-Tourism Hub IF the political scene can settle... ;-} rap.

Edited November 11, 2013 by RickeyParkany

[Etherus]

I have been treated in both Thailand and Malaysia and Malaysia (Penang) would win hands down for service and most importantly, they largely all speak excellent English.

[jaltsc]

"...he said Thailand was second to no other country in the region for the quality of its medical services. The country's medical advancement is also internationally recognised for its high standards. It is essential for the government and private sectors to make a joint effort to promote this service on the global stage."

The lack of an adequately educated medical staff will deter many from seeking medical attention in Thailand.

Not only are the nurses and many of the doctors not versed in the English language, but they are not versed in "medical" language. In the United States, when nurses from overseas apply for a job, they are tested on their grasp of medical terms and asked how they would respond if presented with a particular situation in a medical setting.

If a patient is experiencing certain difficulties, medical personnel need to understand what symptoms the patient is presenting ("symptom" being what the patient is experiencing vs. "signs", that which is observed). Waiting for an interpreter or running unnecessary tests will not do in many situations.

The main advantage Singapore, Malaysia and the Philippines has over Thailand is the proper education they demand of their Doctors, nurses and other medical support staff. It would also be more effective it the praises came from an international health organization instead of someone speaking at a Thai tourism conference.

[Songhua]

It's a hub-off.

[h90]

I have been treated in both Thailand and Malaysia and Malaysia (Penang) would win hands down for service and most importantly, they largely all speak excellent English.

I was a few times with minor things in expensive Thai hospitals and even the nurses on the front customer support were poor in English, not to mention that there are also other languages on this planet and for a large hospital focus on foreign customer it should be expected, that AT LEAST French, Spanish, Japanese and maybe German is spoken (I take it that they can speak Mandarin).

I think of the situation: You are there, feel very bad, already afraid, are yourself not 100 % confident in English and have nurses that don't understand anything.

I even saw doctors who were weak in English and ask myself how they could do their education and how they can keep up-to-date?

[alant]

I am afraid there is no contest in available services and quality v Singapore when it comes to hospitalisation and complex procedures or even risky procedures where the lack of any recourse to the care team or the institution may mean there is less of a deterrence to ensure a full and safe recovery. Having said that I have had some great surgery in ChiangMai. For dental care however I think Thailand is possibly the best place to go just now.

[bigbamboo]

The Thai nurse, does not have the language skills, Also there is a short fall of nurses in Thailand. About 30,000! So they are just dreaming!

Actually a lot of Thai nurses have surprisingly good English skills...... my wife for one!.... and certainly better than most Thai politicians.

[Trentham]

I have had very good and very cheap dental work done here and I have recommended friends from Australia here as well and they are all happy. NO PROBLEMS.

HOWEVER - I once had some very severe pain in my upper arm and shoulder. I went to one of the big name hospitals here that Westerners like to go to near Silom and they treated me for a month for a pinched neck nerve. It did not help. They then recommended a 400,000 baht operation on my neck but no way. So I went back to Oz and discovered it was a torn tendon in my shoulder rotator cuff.

OK back to Thailand and after a few months the same hospital was treating me for GERD [reflux]. After many months it was much worse so back to Australia again and lo and behold it was cancer of my pancreas. I had an operation in Melbourne and after 2 years I am still here with no sign yet of it returning [very lucky].

Next I had a blurred eye. I went to the big eye hospital here off Sukhumwit and they could not diagnose it. So I went to another big hospital not far off Sukhumwit also, and they told me I have acute angle glaucoma and laser surgery would fix it. WELL it did fix it but next time I was in OZ I had it checked because glare was affecting me a lot. They told me that that the Thai doctor had done the operation the lazy and easy way on the bottom hemisphere of my eyeball instead of the upper and hence that glare problem.

A mate of mine had an eye problem also and they diagnosed it as macular degeneration. He came home and had it checked and discovered that he only had wide angle glaucoma.

There are some other instances to relate but I won't bore you all. Just be very aware that medical degrees here, as with most other degrees, are very easy to come by.

[JoeThePoster]

Thailand's quest to be medical hub

It's unbeatable at "get-your-rocks-off" therapy, though.

[bushwacker]

Went to a big private hospital in Bkk last week. Got passed around to 6 different people before somebody could speak a little english although everyone did smile. Ask about an allergy skin test. They got the head nurse over and she talked to the information lady. Head nurse told me no, sorry we do not do that here. I suggested that they must do a simple skin test. They were quite infatic that they do not do skin tests and suggested that I travel to the other end of the city to get one done. Hmmm... I asked them why did they advertise on their website that they do allergy skin tests if in fact they do not? The website had a lot of information and pics of the test. SHOCK!!! Real we have pics on the internet?

A little red faced and a phone call to the skin department ...... "Oh, Yes do ... You want?". The Head Nurse was not happy that I knew more about her hospital then she did ... Welcome to Thailand the Hub of Medical Treatments.

[jpeg]

I have been treated in both Thailand and Malaysia and Malaysia (Penang) would win hands down for service and most importantly, they largely all speak excellent English.

I was a few times with minor things in expensive Thai hospitals and even the nurses on the front customer support were poor in English, not to mention that there are also other languages on this planet and for a large hospital focus on foreign customer it should be expected, that AT LEAST French, Spanish, Japanese and maybe German is spoken (I take it that they can speak Mandarin).

I think of the situation: You are there, feel very bad, already afraid, are yourself not 100 % confident in English and have nurses that don't understand anything.

I even saw doctors who were weak in English and ask myself how they could do their education and how they can keep up-to-date?

I was at the Mill that is the Bangkok International Hospital here on Phuket a while ago. None of the nurses spoke, at best, basic English, bit necessary when someone's in ICU I asked one of the young doctors why none of the nurses spoke English, he retorted 'This is Thailand and we speak Thai!' I responded, a tad angrily, 'And this is an International hospital with international prices!' Ah doot.

[lostmebike]

Impossible! Thailand is the hub of the universe.

[Scott]

I've had several surgeries in Thailand, one rather minor and two major ones. I found the care to be excellent.

I don't know of many countries where there aren't some horror stories about medical screw ups.

By the way, I would guess that Thailand is probably number 1 in sex re-assignment surgery.

[bob4you]

I have two Philippines RN friends that were working at a "International" hospital here in Pattaya. They were paid B15,000 per month (less than the Thai nurses). All of a sudden their salary was cut to B8,000 with only explanation "we want more Thai nurses, not foreigners". Needless to say they quit and now live and work in BKK and possibly heading to Malasia.

Thailand is so backward and corrupt at the same time.

[h90]

Went to a big private hospital in Bkk last week. Got passed around to 6 different people before somebody could speak a little english although everyone did smile. Ask about an allergy skin test. They got the head nurse over and she talked to the information lady. Head nurse told me no, sorry we do not do that here. I suggested that they must do a simple skin test. They were quite infatic that they do not do skin tests and suggested that I travel to the other end of the city to get one done. Hmmm... I asked them why did they advertise on their website that they do allergy skin tests if in fact they do not? The website had a lot of information and pics of the test. SHOCK!!! Real we have pics on the internet?

A little red faced and a phone call to the skin department ...... "Oh, Yes do ... You want?". The Head Nurse was not happy that I knew more about her hospital then she did ... Welcome to Thailand the Hub of Medical Treatments.

similar story....I was allergic. Went in, OK allergic --> Anti Allergic tablets --> Next one.

Than I had to tell the doc, that I want to know against what I am allergic.

Doctor was visible annoyed but did the skin test.

Result: house dust (and not some flowers as I thought). Removing the carpets in the house did the trick.

If I followed the doctor I would eat 2 different tablets every day instead.

I am sure there are excellent doctors in Thailand, but do the big hospitals have some quality management?

[Ulic]

The facilities in Thailand as far as the private hospitals are second to none. I have been many times but only

for blood tests or minor things. Clean, efficient, cheap. no issues with English for the front line staff.

Not sure on the competence of doctors. For plastic surgery I see the results on stage in many bars and

as far as breast augmentation is concerned Thai doctors look very competent to me. In conservation

with the ladies I am told the cost is 45-60 thousand baht. My mother (79 years old) is coming for a couple

of months in January would like to get a mini face lift. When looking at various web sites on her behalf

I see breast augmentation prices quoted at 100-150 thousand baht. So I see what appears quite an extreme

level of two tiered pricing here. For things like colonoscopies and relatively simple procedures for ex-pats

I think Thailand is very good. For serious procedures heart surgery etc.. I would take Singapore and

possibly Malaysia hands down. Especially if the article is correct in saying there is only a 10-15% difference in price.

As far as Dental work is concerned I think Thailand is excellent. I get my teeth cleaned every 3 months, I have

had crowns, and am currently having a root canal done by a specialist. All excellent work and very low cost

compared to Canada. Free compared to the USA.

[outsider]

I have been treated in both Thailand and Malaysia and Malaysia (Penang) would win hands down for service and most importantly, they largely all speak excellent English.

I was a few times with minor things in expensive Thai hospitals and even the nurses on the front customer support were poor in English, not to mention that there are also other languages on this planet and for a large hospital focus on foreign customer it should be expected, that AT LEAST French, Spanish, Japanese and maybe German is spoken (I take it that they can speak Mandarin).

I think of the situation: You are there, feel very bad, already afraid, are yourself not 100 % confident in English and have nurses that don't understand anything.

I even saw doctors who were weak in English and ask myself how they could do their education and how they can keep up-to-date?

I was at the Mill that is the Bangkok International Hospital here on Phuket a while ago. None of the nurses spoke, at best, basic English, bit necessary when someone's in ICU I asked one of the young doctors why none of the nurses spoke English, he retorted 'This is Thailand and we speak Thai!' I responded, a tad angrily, 'And this is an International hospital with international prices!' Ah doot.

That's just so typical isn't it? 'This is Thailand and we speak/do the Thai way'. They are so closed off to the rest of the world, and yet expect the international community to take them seriously. Except for K-Pop crap, they are just so stubborn against anything, aren't they? Back to the topic of this thread, I once had an ear infection while in Thailand. I was told, by some well-meaning coleagues, to go to an 'international' hospital nestled between Silom and Sathorn. They said it's a tad expensive, but it's better for me becasue the staffs of 'cheaper' hospitals 'no speak English'.

I don't know what sort of English my colleagues meant the hospital staffs spoke, because the receptionist, cute as she was (as with all frontliners in Thailand - just the surface, no depth), had so much problems understanding plain simple English, I swear she literally froze momentarily, while her little brain scrambled to re-wire and re-route itself to try and find a solution and a way out of the 'problem'. All I said was "I have an ear infection. I want to see a doctor." That's all! And I said it word by word. Maybe I should have said "Ear pain. Have 'takaten' inside. Pain many many. Want see doctor. Want medicine. Krub."

The latest 'bee in my bonnet' is an even bigger farce. While in Malaysia, the inside of my nose was inflammed from an infected wound. Picked it too vigorously ya see. Went to see a pharmacist for some anti-bacterial ointment, and the pain, bleeding and pus were gone in 48 hours, All conducted in English, at some suburban pharmacy a long way from any tourist areas. Same thing happened to me in Thailand a few months later. Suffice to say, I didn't bring the ointment with me. No pharmacist in BKK can give me the same thing, despite me showing them the name. "Sorry no have" was the response. One pharmacist gave me Vaseline. Another gave me an anti-bacterial cream (not ointment) that didn't work. I am not even sure any of these pharmacists understood what my problem was, to start with.

I am reserved to the fact that the Thai medical community is completely competent up to the stage of issuing paracetamol for fever. Getting an ear infection treated is a stretch. I am lucky my home country is only two hours away by flight. I only pray that if I have to be sick, it will be something that will take longer than five hours (taking into consideration traffic, check-in, customs etc.) to kill me.

So, TWO key learings here. One - Thailand may have the technology for proper healthcare and so on, but the competence of the people in the industry and the language barrier (and the typically stubborn Thai reluctance to learn and speak anything not Thai) is placing Thailand a far way away from being the medical hub of the region. People with real afflictions and serious conditoins will know where to go, and it will most probably not be Thailand. No amount of sugar-laced speeches will change that. Key learning number two - pick nose less vigorously.

Edited November 11, 2013 by outsider

[notmyself]

For dental care however I think Thailand is possibly the best place to go just now.

What about Mexico or Poland?

[rodknock]

i have found doctors and especially nurses need to improve there english if they know any at all!!!!!

that is my biggest complaint with hospital service. even the doctors that have schooled in english speaking countries are very poor in communicating. if Thailand wants to be a medical hub they need to get people who can speak other langauges then Thai.

[NeverSure]

The article says "More important, 35 private hospitals here have been certified by The Joint Commission, a US-based accreditation organisation for healthcare services. This will help strengthen confidence among patients, especially from the United States and Europe."

I don't believe that. Here is one requirement:

"The organization is in the United States or its territories or, if outside the United States, is operated by the U.S. government or under a charter of the U.S. Congress." Link

[simple1]

The article says "More important, 35 private hospitals here have been certified by The Joint Commission, a US-based accreditation organisation for healthcare services. This will help strengthen confidence among patients, especially from the United States and Europe."

I don't believe that. Here is one requirement:

"The organization is in the United States or its territories or, if outside the United States, is operated by the U.S. government or under a charter of the U.S. Congress." Link

From the Joint Commissions own website, there are more than 40 Thai hospitals who have accreditation either entirely or for various specialist treatments

http://www.jointcommissioninternational.org/JCI-Accredited-Organizations/

[fasteddie]

Had a heart attack in KL, 5 nights in hospital, £250 with a free angiogram. Don't think Thailand can match that.

[Thai at Heart]

What? They aren't the hubtasticness of medical tourism hubness?

Someone needs to tell these other countries to stop competing for Thailand's self granted titles to hubness.

[Thai at Heart]

What? They aren't the hubtasticness of medical tourism hubness?

Someone needs to tell these other countries to stop competing for Thailand's self granted titles to hubness.

[PaullyW]

Thailand's medical capabilities are, in general, fairly good in my experience. I've had what might be considered some serious procedures over the years and most have gone well.

Similarly to what one poster pointed out, however, where Thailand's doctors and other medical professionals have failed me is in their

lack of English language ability (even in the MOST exclusive and expensive international hospitals and clinics in Thailand) and also in their

inability to be questioned - although not a great deal unlike Asian doctors (in Asia) in general.

Where things are more routine, they seem to be strong.

Where they are ambiguous and/or require heavy interpretation, Eastern rote education fails them in their lacking of ability to handle new things they haven't encountered.

Where patients, especially reasonably educated Western patients, need clear and concise communication in English or any non-Thai language, Thai lacking of language precision (as opposed to casual foreign language ability) makes such communication very difficult. Probably can thank the Thai language's lack of precision for this.

Where patients would like to have respectful, minor disagreements or ask for reconsideration or indeed simply ask for clarification, Thai FACE often gets in the way preventing doctors from allowing themselves to be open to such things.

That's my take.

[PaullyW]

And I'd further add that Thailand is a place of all the dozens of countries I've lived in where there are very few true standards followed from one place to the next or even one doctor to the next.

This variance is generally admired in Thai culture and is seen throughout in the language, the live and let live attitude towards life in general, etc. It's part of what makes Thailand beautiful, but it has its drawbacks.

You will find great Thai doctors, but you have to look for them. Dont ever assume that a previous good experience somewhere will mean or even hint at a good one later at the same place.