Senate meeting turns chaotic: Thai amnesty bill

[blaze]

It appears that some (SiamP and Max) don't really understand the makeup of the senate. The 40 senators who are apparantly trying to delay the debate are appointed. They are died in the wool anti-Thaksin people. The purpose of the appointed senators was to separate at least a segment of the senate from politics- you might want to find out just when this situation came about and who did the appointing.

Why do you think the senators didn't show up on Friday and now would seek to delay voting on the amnesty bill?

In whose interest is it to keep alive the notion that the bill is even worthy of debate? Let alone extended debate? (Hint- the government knows that as long as people believe that this bill is an issue for them, their life span is pretty short. And their opponents know this too.

(So don't be surprised if the 40 senators vote in FAVOR of the bill just to keep it as a rallying point for street protests. Though hopefully, not even these guys would stoop that low).

If the opposition was to accept- or to voice their belief that in fact the gov't wishes they'd never even brought up the notion of amnesty- then the whole raison d'etre for this current round of protests would come to a pleasantly grinding halt.

However by screaming that the gov't will make the same mistake in 180 days, then the true plan will be exposed: which is of course, to render the government incapable of governing- and thus forcing it to step down (or at least dissolve the house).

There are many on the anti-amnesty side that DO believe in the democratic process- and do believe that they are simplyh protesting the submission of a bad piece of legislation. They might not be whistling so loudly (some of them) when they understand that this was merely a pretext to remove the elected government through non-constitutional means.

Edited November 11, 2013 by blaze

[icare999]

It appears that many don't really understand the makeup of the senate. The 40 senators who are apparantly trying to delay the debate are appointed. They are died in the wool anti-Thaksin people. The purpose of the appointed senators was to separate at least a segment of the senate from politics- you might want to find out just when this situation came about and who did the appointing.

Why do you think the senators didn't show up on Friday and now would seek to delay voting on the amnesty bill?

In whose interest is it to keep alive the notion that the bill is even worthy of debate? Let alone extended debate? (Hint- the government knows that as long as people believe that this bill is an issue for them, their life span is pretty short. And their opponents know this too.

(So don't be surprised if the 40 senators vote in FAVOR of the bill just to keep it as a rallying point for street protests. Though hopefully, not even these guys would stoop that low).

and pray what is wrong with using any tactic to try and rid Thailand of the megalomanic bloodsucker who if he had his way would turn Thailand into his own Zimbabwe style dictatorship. He started all this by trying to push through a bill to absolve him of all his crimes and deeds while the Dems were quite happy with a bill that gave amnesty to all except the leaders and stated clearly they did not want amnesty for themselves being quite prepared to go to court unlike your yellow bellied leader. I can only assume you are are paid to turn out your total crap or so brainwashed your brain consists of nothing but fluff

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[khunken]

One cannot lose what one never possessed. After the 1962 verdict, the Thais were intelligent and exploited a loophole, and then occupied a virtually uninhabited spot and claimed it. That loophole has been closed.

Now Democrats are resigning their positions to use the public to turn a protest into a 'street coup'. The army said it will not become involved, but when the fires start again the Keystone Kops will not be able to handle it.

Both sides seem more than willing to sacrifice their followers for the acquisition of power. One resigning senator said "the country should not be run by politicians for a few years". That is not democratic at all. Abhisit told Yingluck she would 'join her brother in exiile' if she did not do what he demanded. I am not taking sides, just discussing a logical chain of connected events.

These are clearly comments preluding some kind of coup.

I am not taking sides.......

Another of the 'I'm not a Thaksin supporter but....' ilk.

The Shin heavy - Yaoapa - cut debate at 04:00 am, ensuring that the opposition didn't get their promised share of debating time, and forced a vote. As per the constitution it went to the senate where, at first, the PTP heavies waded in to try & influence their vote.

So, the opposition unsurprisingly took to the streets & then so did quite a few other groups to protest against the amnesty designed for the head of the clan. When the NACC mentioned that up to 25,000 other potential corruption cases would go out the same window, even more groups voiced their opposition.

It's not surprising that the senate is in turmoil as many of them are under instructions to vote for the bill but they know that public opinion is largely against.

Abhisit and others are not calling for a coup directly (some no doubt are). First they want the amnesty bill dropped and no new bills introduced. With the support they are getting - some from those wanting PTP out of power - they have suggested that Yingluck get out. Most demonstrators would be off the streets tonight if the Shin dynasty would stop their shenanikins and let more capable people run the country.

Thaksin's older sister is the main cause of this debacle so it's all about Shins helping their clan ruin the country. All the while the clan's puppet without real power talks empty talk.

[gabruce]

The Thai Senate really does need a Naughty Step for those senators who can't control themselves when the are let out of the house on their own.

Or maybe just send them home without any tea?

Just remember that they are Politicians. It comes with the territory - or maybe it's just the natural state for those who want to rule. I don't know.

[nottocus]

It's going to get bloody boys.

[Dap]

Better pack and fly out before 6pm.

I have a feeling that all hell is going to break loose.

Relax Spare. It's after 7 and "all hell hasn't broken loose" yet

[ramrod711]

What a sad state of affairs.! The country is burning and the senators are involved in their own little pissingcontest!

With their size of "apparatus", they are at risk of getting their feet wet!!

Sad day for all Thais and us expats, who call Thailand for home!!

Yes and who is taking advantage of this? The dem party backed Suthep Roadshow. What a coincidence, Suthep puts a 6pm deadline on the bill being binned or the demonstrations go on and the gang of 40 slow the procedure down as much as possible.

You support arsonists, thugs and people who sell their votes, you don't condemn Arisman for saying that if demonstrators won't move, he and a million red shirts will move them, and you expect anybody to take your posts seriously? If PTP hadn't tried to crush law and order there wouldn't even be a demonstration.

[SICHONSTEVE]

What a sad state of affairs.! The country is burning and the senators are involved in their own little pissingcontest!

With their size of "apparatus", they are at risk of getting their feet wet!!

Sad day for all Thais and us expats, who call Thailand for home!!

Yes and who is taking advantage of this? The dem party backed Suthep Roadshow. What a coincidence, Suthep puts a 6pm deadline on the bill being binned or the demonstrations go on and the gang of 40 slow the procedure down as much as possible.

It's called 'strategy' or 'tactics'.

Do you think that it is right that Pheu Thai have abused parliamentary proceedings by not allowing the Dem's to speak on matters of parliament because they don't want or need to hear the other side's argument or point of view. In a similar vein, speeding up the ram-rodding of bills through the house to benefit Thaksin!! That really went down well by the way, didn't it.

Serves them right as far as I'm concerned!!

[ianf]

I smell a COUP coming ........ bye bye

What's wrong with a coup in the correct circumstances? The last coup was about the good guys trying to oust the criminals that were bleeding this country dry and trying to do other things that cannot be mentioned in this forum. The last 'coup' was about wresting power from people (person) who were trying to gain ownership of this country and increasingly one individual was becoming a dictator. Thank goodness the coup happened! The milita ry then allowed the democratic process to take over but sadly the dictator screwed the idea of democracy, lied to the masses and manipulated the situation for his own gain. What we are seeing now is a continuation of the fightback by the sociopath, although to me he seems increasingly isolated. Obviously he still has people like Jaturporn winding the people up with his lies.

[DeeMockMark]

Gentlemen, the only loyalty that you have is to the people of Thailand , you do not represent anybody that has broken the law, as there are lawyers who handle that side of the law, so question is gentlemen, what do the good people of Thailand want you to do. I rest my case.

You have my vote.

[rubl]

Such a knee-jerk reaction whereas the topic said

"At press time, the deliberation of the bill could not yet start as senators who earlier announced their stances not to accept the bill were engaging in a war of words with senators who earlier supported the bill."

Yes and who is taking advantage of this? The dem party backed Suthep Roadshow. What a coincidence, Suthep puts a 6pm deadline on the bill being binned or the demonstrations go on and the gang of 40 slow the procedure down as much as possible.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Such a knee-jerk reaction whereas the topic said

"At press time, the deliberation of the bill could not yet start as senators who earlier announced their stances not to accept the bill were engaging in a war of words with senators who earlier supported the bill."

Yes and who is taking advantage of this? The dem party backed Suthep Roadshow. What a coincidence, Suthep puts a 6pm deadline on the bill being binned or the demonstrations go on and the gang of 40 slow the procedure down as much as possible.

Yes, great to see, isn't it!!! .

I'm loving it!!

[Halion]

The THAI Senate almost as ridiculous as the Muppet's except that the Muppet characters did have personal integrity.

[Sealbash]

I smell a COUP coming ........ bye bye

I have lived here through 2 coups.....I do not see how it affected me or my lifestyle at all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[moe666]

Better pack and fly out before 6pm.

I have a feeling that all hell is going to break loose.

Let us know how your flight goes

[rametindallas]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush the Senate's decision? They have 60 days, by law, to decide. There are pro amnesty Thaksin lackeys in the Senate who must be convinced by the sane Senators that to continue to blindly follow instructions from Dubai will lead to chaos. Even if the majority do not want the bill to pass, there are some who want to send it back to the Lower House unchanged, where, in 180 days, it can be passed on a 50% +1 vote without the Senate's involvement. There are some Senators who realize the bill must be changed to be truly killed; either changed to the original amnesty, that excludes politicians, rally leaders, Thaksin, Abhisit, and Suthep, or be changed to a 'financial' bill that will force the PM to have to sign off on it (she has vowed to drop it). If he bill is changed, it will put the Lower House in a position of 'put up or shut up' as they will have to choose to drop it, as promised to the public. or resubmit a Thaksin favorable version, as promised to Thaksin. If the bill is passed it will go to the Constitutional Court and be decided there. I really don't believe the Army is even close to stepping in. It is early days yet with many opportunities to stop this 'blanket' amnesty. Be patient, make some more popcorn and enjoy to show.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush the Senate's decision? They have 60 days, by law, to decide. There are pro amnesty Thaksin lackeys in the Senate who must be convinced by the sane Senators that to continue to blindly follow instructions from Dubai will lead to chaos. Even if the majority do not want the bill to pass, there are some who want to send it back to the Lower House unchanged, where, in 180 days, it can be passed on a 50% +1 vote without the Senate's involvement. There are some Senators who realize the bill must be changed to be truly killed; either changed to the original amnesty, that excludes politicians, rally leaders, Thaksin, Abhisit, and Suthep, or be changed to a 'financial' bill that will force the PM to have to sign off on it (she has vowed to drop it). If he bill is changed, it will put the Lower House in a position of 'put up or shut up' as they will have to choose to drop it, as promised to the public. or resubmit a Thaksin favorable version, as promised to Thaksin. If the bill is passed it will go to the Constitutional Court and be decided there. I really don't believe the Army is even close to stepping in. It is early days yet with many opportunities to stop this 'blanket' amnesty. Be patient, make some more popcorn and enjoy to show.

The amnesty is dead, finished, deceased!!!

The demonstrators are simply using the basis of its demise being unofficial as a technical tool to make the government squirm and build for a possible ouster of this rabble back to the rice paddies where they belong!!!

I doubt that anyone else has noticed but the time set by Suthep of 18.00 Thai time is 11.00 AM on the 11th day of the11th month ie: armistice day whereby the 'guns fell silent' - isn't that ironic as it may be the start of all hell kicking off (especially with Thailand losing the battle for the land around Preah Vihear temple)!!! It could be the day of reckoning!!

[PattayaPhom]

Not having three days off, just pass the bill and get Mr T back, then we can all get on with life

[blaze]

Sichon Steve

Ya hit it in one.

Smart tactics now by the anti govt senators would be to support the bill- keep it alive-

Eventually, the pressure will be too much and the gov't will have to call it quits.

This bill has done wonders in terms of galvanizing anti-gov't sentiment-

Don't let it die.

Because if it dies- the void will be filled with the loony ultranationalists-

and then the shti WILL hit the fan.

Classic- the revolution will eat its young. Again.

[notmyself]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush the Senate's decision? They have 60 days, by law, to decide. There are pro amnesty Thaksin lackeys in the Senate who must be convinced by the sane Senators that to continue to blindly follow instructions from Dubai will lead to chaos. Even if the majority do not want the bill to pass, there are some who want to send it back to the Lower House unchanged, where, in 180 days, it can be passed on a 50% +1 vote without the Senate's involvement. There are some Senators who realize the bill must be changed to be truly killed; either changed to the original amnesty, that excludes politicians, rally leaders, Thaksin, Abhisit, and Suthep, or be changed to a 'financial' bill that will force the PM to have to sign off on it (she has vowed to drop it). If he bill is changed, it will put the Lower House in a position of 'put up or shut up' as they will have to choose to drop it, as promised to the public. or resubmit a Thaksin favorable version, as promised to Thaksin. If the bill is passed it will go to the Constitutional Court and be decided there. I really don't believe the Army is even close to stepping in. It is early days yet with many opportunities to stop this 'blanket' amnesty. Be patient, make some more popcorn and enjoy to show.

No question the best bet is to water it down and pass it but there is also the issue of 10's of thousands of people on the streets of Bangkok. You want to get these people of the streets before lives are lost.

[rametindallas]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush the Senate's decision? They have 60 days, by law, to decide. There are pro amnesty Thaksin lackeys in the Senate who must be convinced by the sane Senators that to continue to blindly follow instructions from Dubai will lead to chaos. Even if the majority do not want the bill to pass, there are some who want to send it back to the Lower House unchanged, where, in 180 days, it can be passed on a 50% +1 vote without the Senate's involvement. There are some Senators who realize the bill must be changed to be truly killed; either changed to the original amnesty, that excludes politicians, rally leaders, Thaksin, Abhisit, and Suthep, or be changed to a 'financial' bill that will force the PM to have to sign off on it (she has vowed to drop it). If he bill is changed, it will put the Lower House in a position of 'put up or shut up' as they will have to choose to drop it, as promised to the public. or resubmit a Thaksin favorable version, as promised to Thaksin. If the bill is passed it will go to the Constitutional Court and be decided there. I really don't believe the Army is even close to stepping in. It is early days yet with many opportunities to stop this 'blanket' amnesty. Be patient, make some more popcorn and enjoy to show.

The amnesty is dead, finished, deceased!!!

The demonstrators are simply using the basis of its demise being unofficial as a technical tool to make the government squirm and build for a possible ouster of this rabble back to the rice paddies where they belong!!!

I doubt that anyone else has noticed but the time set by Suthep of 18.00 Thai time is 11.00 AM on the 11th day of the11th month ie: armistice day whereby the 'guns fell silent' - isn't that ironic as it may be the start of all hell kicking off (especially with Thailand losing the battle for the land around Preah Vihear temple)!!! It could be the day of reckoning!!

The amnesty is dead, finished, deceased!!!

Did the Senate act already and it wasn't reported? What did they decide to do with the 'blanket' amnesty bill? Did they vote to pass it 'as is' or did they send it back to the Lower House untouched or did they send it back to the Lower House with revisions? I though I was following the news closely. Where do you get your inside information to know the outcome of the 'blanket' amnesty bill? Please direct me to the news article that states that amnesty is dead, please.

BTW Mr. Suthep is not relevant to decisions of the Senate.

[blaze]

No No notmyself

You WANT lives lost- the red's understood that- the yellows certainly did-

(just not YOUR?MY life). Martyrs matter- the yellows learned that- the Reds capitalized on it.

The most important thing to bring down this government is to plunge the country into dangerous anarchy-

Only then will the goals be met- when the opposition is too busy rallying crowds for 'peoples courts' on the streets to permit the gov't to function.

Eggs have to be broken if an omelet will be cooked.

Right now the govt=- at best amature-- at worst- idiotic- recognizes that of all the self defeating things they could have done, this amnesty took the cake- their own people turned against them- (that they appeared NOT to have expected)-- amazing - the stupidity...

Now it is just for blood- blood has to be spilled and the gov't is finished.

And the IJC ruling just nudged the whole temperature up a few degrees.

[surangw]

Not a house of laws, but a kindergarten of children.

Thailand will reap what it sows

and these are supposed to be the brilliant educated class

[jdinasia]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush the Senate's decision? They have 60 days, by law, to decide. There are pro amnesty Thaksin lackeys in the Senate who must be convinced by the sane Senators that to continue to blindly follow instructions from Dubai will lead to chaos. Even if the majority do not want the bill to pass, there are some who want to send it back to the Lower House unchanged, where, in 180 days, it can be passed on a 50% +1 vote without the Senate's involvement. There are some Senators who realize the bill must be changed to be truly killed; either changed to the original amnesty, that excludes politicians, rally leaders, Thaksin, Abhisit, and Suthep, or be changed to a 'financial' bill that will force the PM to have to sign off on it (she has vowed to drop it). If he bill is changed, it will put the Lower House in a position of 'put up or shut up' as they will have to choose to drop it, as promised to the public. or resubmit a Thaksin favorable version, as promised to Thaksin. If the bill is passed it will go to the Constitutional Court and be decided there. I really don't believe the Army is even close to stepping in. It is early days yet with many opportunities to stop this 'blanket' amnesty. Be patient, make some more popcorn and enjoy to show.

The amnesty is dead, finished, deceased!!!

The demonstrators are simply using the basis of its demise being unofficial as a technical tool to make the government squirm and build for a possible ouster of this rabble back to the rice paddies where they belong!!!

I doubt that anyone else has noticed but the time set by Suthep of 18.00 Thai time is 11.00 AM on the 11th day of the11th month ie: armistice day whereby the 'guns fell silent' - isn't that ironic as it may be the start of all hell kicking off (especially with Thailand losing the battle for the land around Preah Vihear temple)!!! It could be the day of reckoning!!

Did you miss a ! in your final set of !!! ???

Since there is still an amnesty bill sitting in the senate that could be enacted immediately if a vote were held today ............. how is it "deceased!!!"?

[PeterSmiles]

The amnesty is dead, finished, deceased!!!

Sure and that is why the Senators have extended their meeting to after midnight, to find the right expression to say " rejected " . Isn't it ?

[blaze]

JD is of course correct.

My understanding is that the senate can drag the vote out for another 60 days- Certainly the pro-gov't senators want it to die- but keeping it alive will keep the people on the streets in a way that 'Yingluk get out' might not.

How ironic- the gov't is praying that a bill sent up by their own mps dies a quick death in the senate- while the anti-govt forces want to keep it hanging in the air.

Whew- politics huh.

Well- I have to agree with Chuan- talk about an 'own goal' --- the gov't couldn't done a better job of sealing their fate- and their are a whole bunch of senators with the hot iron at hand. Amatures!

Edited November 11, 2013 by blaze

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush the Senate's decision? They have 60 days, by law, to decide. There are pro amnesty Thaksin lackeys in the Senate who must be convinced by the sane Senators that to continue to blindly follow instructions from Dubai will lead to chaos. Even if the majority do not want the bill to pass, there are some who want to send it back to the Lower House unchanged, where, in 180 days, it can be passed on a 50% +1 vote without the Senate's involvement. There are some Senators who realize the bill must be changed to be truly killed; either changed to the original amnesty, that excludes politicians, rally leaders, Thaksin, Abhisit, and Suthep, or be changed to a 'financial' bill that will force the PM to have to sign off on it (she has vowed to drop it). If he bill is changed, it will put the Lower House in a position of 'put up or shut up' as they will have to choose to drop it, as promised to the public. or resubmit a Thaksin favorable version, as promised to Thaksin. If the bill is passed it will go to the Constitutional Court and be decided there. I really don't believe the Army is even close to stepping in. It is early days yet with many opportunities to stop this 'blanket' amnesty. Be patient, make some more popcorn and enjoy to show.

The amnesty is dead, finished, deceased!!!

The demonstrators are simply using the basis of its demise being unofficial as a technical tool to make the government squirm and build for a possible ouster of this rabble back to the rice paddies where they belong!!!

I doubt that anyone else has noticed but the time set by Suthep of 18.00 Thai time is 11.00 AM on the 11th day of the11th month ie: armistice day whereby the 'guns fell silent' - isn't that ironic as it may be the start of all hell kicking off (especially with Thailand losing the battle for the land around Preah Vihear temple)!!! It could be the day of reckoning!!

The amnesty is dead, finished, deceased!!!

Did the Senate act already and it wasn't reported? What did they decide to do with the 'blanket' amnesty bill? Did they vote to pass it 'as is' or did they send it back to the Lower House untouched or did they send it back to the Lower House with revisions? I though I was following the news closely. Where do you get your inside information to know the outcome of the 'blanket' amnesty bill? Please direct me to the news article that states that amnesty is dead, please.

BTW Mr. Suthep is not relevant to decisions of the Senate.

There is no news article!!

I mean it is dead in spirit, in all intents and purposes, in everyway imaginable, never to be seen again.

All of the technicalities are meaningless and irrelevant so I don't know why people keep on harping on about them.

Who cares whether it has to go back to parliament via Hong Kong in 8 days (excluding weekends), it is gone!

Suthep is relevant actually as he set an ultimatum that the government could never comply with and it shows that Suthep is pulling the strings by dictating the new rules of engagement and the government has to take notice of him much to their chagrin!!

Pheu Thai are running around like the headless chickens that they are and they don't know what to do!!

Really, this government should dissolve parliament and call new elections as they stated that the amnesty law was one of the major planks of it's manifesto and they have failed to deliver on it!!

[Fookhaht]

I smell a COUP coming ........ bye bye

What's wrong with a coup in the correct circumstances? The last coup was about the good guys trying to oust the criminals that were bleeding this country dry and trying to do other things that cannot be mentioned in this forum. The last 'coup' was about wresting power from people (person) who were trying to gain ownership of this country and increasingly one individual was becoming a dictator. Thank goodness the coup happened! The milita ry then allowed the democratic process to take over but sadly the dictator screwed the idea of democracy, lied to the masses and manipulated the situation for his own gain. What we are seeing now is a continuation of the fightback by the sociopath, although to me he seems increasingly isolated. Obviously he still has people like Jaturporn winding the people up with his lies.

What a twisted view, rationalizing that it's better when a country adopts the rule of the gun over the rule of the vote. What a laughing stock if the USA or any western European country had 17 coups in 30 years because of the same political reasoning. Because of people with views like this, democracy remains a total sham in this country. Things not going the way the elite would have it? Always resort to the gun to "reset" it.

[pookiki]

I have been tempted to throw in my 'two cents' on what is happening in Thailand but after the US Congress actually closed down the government over temper tantrums over healthcare legislation, it is really difficult to muster the energy to be critical. I think we could all point to serious faults in our own governments that are as bad or worse as what is happening in Thailand. But I don't see much introspection in this Forum. Democracy is a fairly rare commodity in ASEAN - as most of us who have lived here for a while know. Are all the expats who have CHOSEN to live here going to back their bags and go back to their democracy dream world because of the latest political developments in Thailand? Or all we fugitives from democracies that we are not was willing to vilify as much as we do Thailand?