7-year-old deported to Thailand after losing immigration battle in Denmark

[brianmarinus]

I'm Danish and ashamed - obviously Denmark prefer the massive immigration from the muslim world....instead of the usually hardworking people from SE Asia

On what do you base your "hard working people from SE Asia?"

I see no mention of the mother's means to support herself and her daughter, or am I missing something? I did see a reference to the fact that they aren't on the dole, but that could change quickly if they're allowed to stay and the step-father's money runs out.

Or is this just a Muslim bashing post? If so, my apologies for getting in the way.

The mother is under education-and about the hard work-thais are nr. 1 in denmark regarding to have a job-keep it and support them self.

Edited November 12, 2013 by brianmarinus

[Arkady]

If fully correct, this story seems particularly mean. In California NGOs fuss over violent Asian gang members being deported to their home countries after serving their prison sentences under the 3 strikes and your out law. Courts in the UK refuse to deport terrorists for fear of separating them from their families. I have no sympathy those examples but deporting an innocent young girl because her step father died seems outrageous. Surely the bereavement was tough enough already.

[impulse]

On what do you base your "hard working people from SE Asia?"

I see no mention of the mother's means to support herself and her daughter, or am I missing something? I did see a reference to the fact that they aren't on the dole, but that could change quickly if they're allowed to stay and the step-father's money runs out.

Or is this just a Muslim bashing post? If so, my apologies for getting in the way.

Yes, you are missing more than something – the whole point in the Danish discussion and protest. Some of the Danish politicians are even now raising the case to parliment level.

And by the way, the family were fully self-supported...!

Sorry I missed the fully self supporting thing. I still see no mention that she was gainfully employed, or at what occupation.

From the previous topic on this matter, it was stated mother was training to be a teacher. Nearly exactly the same commentary, questions & observations as this topic at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/675210-thai-danish-7-year-old-to-be-deported-from-denmark/

Still not seeing any definitive mention of her occupation. But my recollection is "training to be a teacher" is kind of low paying? In fact, when my nieces were training to be teachers, their income was in the neighborhood of -$15,000 per semester.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is a lot of the story not being told in the articles I'm reading. And I wonder why?

All I'm seeing is a heart tugging story of a little Danish girl being ripped from the first grade.

How does the mother fit into the story? What is their financial situation and outlook? Has she (the mother) learned enough Danish to contribute to society there? Will they be a drain on the welfare system? Were there avenues to permanent residency they neglected before the stuff hit the fan?

[Thai at Heart]

So even better for child maybe. Europe going worse and worse. And she avoided possible problems in the future, if she will decide to get thai citizenship.

Why, yes. Grow up and get educated in Beautiful Thailand with a GDP per capita of $5,400 or stay in that dilapidated Euro Trash country where the GDP per capita is $56,500.

Yep.

And the fact, that You and thousands of european and american farangs prefer to stay in Thailand - confirms my opinion.

The trick is to have the western earning with the 3rd world cost of living.....

[culicine]

sorry for that kid but rules are rules , we have the same rules in Thailand when you are foreigners ... even worse , after so many years here working you still need to renew the visa every year ...

That's true....BUT if you were in the same situation as this YOU could STILL stay here in Thailand using the child as your dependent to acquire the visa. You would NOT be deported after various trials to a country that your child may barely know.

But Im is Thai, not Danish. I would think if she was born there or became naturalised, she could stay. I'm not sure if I had a step daughter here, and the mother died, I could get a visa based on having a dependent. It's a sad situation for them, but I'm sure Im will pick up Thai in a year or so here.

[seminomadic]

Im lived half her life in Denmark. She's 7. Three and a half years of living in Denmark. She only speaks Danish? That means she learned no language at all until she was 3 and a half, unless of course she started picking it up when she went to that Danish-language school for pre-schoolers they have out in Jintanakahnburi.

Put the little girl's feet to the fire and she can belt out the Thai national anthem verbatim. Sorry she won't have a leg up by getting to grow up in a developed country, but I sense the mother's not representing herself and her daughter with complete honesty here, as is often the case with these 'woe is me' articles.

[ericthai]

sorry for that kid but rules are rules , we have the same rules in Thailand when you are foreigners ... even worse , after so many years here working you still need to renew the visa every year ...

That's true....BUT if you were in the same situation as this YOU could STILL stay here in Thailand using the child as your dependent to acquire the visa. You would NOT be deported after various trials to a country that your child may barely know.

You would if the child was not Thai. The child in the OP is 100% Thai, and 0% Danish.

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for the mum and child, and wish they could stay in Denmark, but the Thai rules are even worse - perhaps Thai officials reading this story, if any, should take a long hard look at themselves!

How do you see the Thai rules as being harder. A person would just need to leave Thailand and come back in for another 30 days. Then during that 30 day stay find a job to get a work permit. If they cant find a job then leave and come back for another 30 days or go get a tourist visa. Very simple to get into and stay in Thailand. Might require some boarder runs but you could stay if you really wanted to, unlike her options in Denmark. Can she just do a boarder run and stay, I think not.

Everyone complains how bad it is in Thailand when in fact it is easy to get where in most cases a visa is not needed. Easy to get a tourist visa. There a many people living in Thailand full time on Tourist visas. Yes it requires some hoops to jump, but not as bad as some western countries.

[monkeycountry]

Someone from Denmark know if the story is true and complete?

In some other not Thailand related cases in Europe, things were often different than they were in the newspaper. (for example criminal charges were not mentioned).

If it is like it seems here, than it is a shame!

this is a true story, what makes it more absurd is that the same day two Palestinians who cut a guys ear off and had a track record of extreme violence were not deported, it is causing a storm in Denmark

The Palestinian story is a daily event in Denmark. They know Denmark has ridiculously low jail sentences in really nice jails, so they could not care less. The only thing they worry about is deportation. Unfortunately no matter what they do, and it includes rape and murder, they never get deported, at best they get a suspended deportation. And then even when they commit serious crimes again, thereby breaching the terms of the suspended deportation, they STILL do not get deported.

Denmark is not solely at fault here, apparently various international laws prevent Denmark from deporting these serial criminals due to humanitarian reasons. Ie, if a guy does not have much relation with his home country, then it seems you cannot depart him, no matter how much he rapes and pillages and spites Denmark.

Anyway, as I said before, this obviously stirs up hatred among the danes, who then turn to right wing political parties for help.

Oh, and add to the above, all these imported criminals are collecting so much welfare, both legally and illegally that they can afford to drive mercedes. They even brag about it on facebook, and the danish authorities admit they know about it, but are powerless to stop it.

Google "levakovic denmark" if in doubt.

Edited November 12, 2013 by monkeycountry

[jdinasia]

It would be nice if the first consideration was for the child.

Personally I disagree with the Danish government's standpoint but the Thai authorities would do exactly the same if the roles were reversed.

Two wrongs don't make a right though.

No they wouldn't

Hmmmm yes they would as far as it goes.

If you married a Thai in the US and moved to Thailand with your non-Thai child. Then your spouse died. You would not be eligible to remain in Thailand. (You could do it via other means assuming you were employed etc.... but solely on the basis that your Thai spouse was a step-parent .. nope.

[moe666]

So if you married a Thai woman and had a child with her and lived in Thailand and then she died, would you be allowed to stay?

Yes to care for your child

[alphaflight]

Feel for the child, but it's fair. Thailand laws are by far worse; If your Thai wife died while you were in Thailand, you would have to sell your house, all your possessions, and get out. And that's provided the wife's family wasn't sneaky, didn't take you in front of the corrupt police and also demand half of everything you had; using the child as a bargaining chip. Lots of those types of stories to go around.

WRONG, If you had a Thai child with your wife you can apply for a visa extension based on support of a Thai child.

I'm stating my comment based on the same situation as in this story. what happens if my wife is supporting the family and I'm a stay at home? Can I still live in our house? Yes I could APPLY for a visa extension based on whatever law is in place for that situation or Thai interpretation; it might depend on who took the case, and if they liked my face, or the amount of money I'd be willing to pay. I'm pretty sure that I'd be told to leave if I didn't have a substantial amount of money, and it wouldn't matter what nationality my child was. I think what Denmark is trying to avoid; is a bunch of unemployable immigrants sponging off of the system, or resorting to crime to pay the bills......

[surangw]

all the illegal immigrants out there, and this is what they put their effort into?

[ridkun]

If this happened in Thailand, it would be "only in Thailand".

[Asiantravel]

I wonder if writing to the Princess on grounds of compassion would have helped? After all, she used to be nothing more than an ordinary run-of-the-mill real estate agent in Australia before she married the Crown Prince.

Surely the Royal family could have the final say?

[DrTuner]

I wonder if writing to the Princess on grounds of compassion would have helped? After all, she used to be nothing more than an ordinary run-of-the-mill real estate agent in Australia before she married the Crown Prince.

Surely the Royal family could have the final say?

Monarchs in Scandinavia have entertainment value, no political power.

[FangFerang]

A typical danish. Only tastes good before you are really awake.

[khunPer]

(Earlier quotes deletes, as too many to be allowed posted)

From the previous topic on this matter, it was stated mother was training to be a teacher. Nearly exactly the same commentary, questions & observations as this topic at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/675210-thai-danish-7-year-old-to-be-deported-from-denmark/

Still not seeing any definitive mention of her occupation. But my recollection is "training to be a teacher" is kind of low paying? In fact, when my nieces were training to be teachers, their income was in the neighborhood of -$15,000 per semester.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is a lot of the story not being told in the articles I'm reading. And I wonder why?

All I'm seeing is a heart tugging story of a little Danish girl being ripped from the first grade.

How does the mother fit into the story? What is their financial situation and outlook? Has she (the mother) learned enough Danish to contribute to society there? Will they be a drain on the welfare system? Were there avenues to permanent residency they neglected before the stuff hit the fan?

You are right about the OP article not mentioning the full case, including the mother’s work and that the family is self-supported; that article is a follow up on a previous article.

The Danish media, which you may not know about (due to language etc.), flows with information and heavy debate. For example have one of the FaceBook groups in less than 24 hours got “likes” from that many people, as represent 1 per cent of the Danish population.

The main case is, that the Southeast Asian migrants normally are very well integrated in Denmark with language and cultural acceptance, hard working and self-supported. On the other side Denmark receive masses of badly integrated mainly Muslims asking for asylum. (There are also a some bad gypsy cases reported in the media.) They tap the social welfare system for support, and try to force their Muslim culture into the Danish system by talking about being a minority – which unfortunately works, as European politicians ever since WWII are scared about being considered racists or stepping on minorities. Furthermore there are a lot of serious crimes among people from this group; they make out a substantial number of all criminals in the country. It is very difficult to expel these criminals as they have claimed asylum. Furthermore the open borders inside the so-called Schengen Countries (most of European Union and some more European countries) makes them move around more or less freely and settle or seek asylum in that country, which gives the highest cash welfare; for example Somalis entering Europe in Italy, flying up to Denmark, flush their passports and personals papers in a bin or toilet, and immediately demanding asylum.

What seems like a major part of the Danish population are feed up with this, because at the same time social welfare for, for example old retired people have been cut for the original Danish population due to the country cannot afford it any longer. Some of the badly integrated persons and families cost the society millions of Danish kroner (1 million dkk EQ ca. 180,000 US$) – there are no official statements, but an official Norwegian reports states, that in Norway each asylum seeker will cost the society more than four million Norwegian kroner (about 700,000 US$).

Im’s mother was under education as social worker (SOSU) and both those jobs – and a teacher job and other normally considered low wage jobs – are that well paid in Denmark that you can live from the income.

That the little girl do not speak other languages than Danish is very likely – true according to the many media reports – as coming to Denmark at an age of 3½, where she hardly have a language, staying in a family where Danish may have been spoken for various reasons, and having Danish mates and attending Danish school – her future were expected to be in a country with that language. Thais seems to adapt Danish language more easily than English, as many sounds in the language and the extra vowels are closer to Thai than for example English – not unusual than Thais in Denmark speaks (much) better Danish than English and therefore will speak Danish with a non Thai-speaking spouse, rather than English.

In this particular case – according to what have been written in the media, searched for by journalist and first local politicians and now parliament politicians getting involved – there seems to be “no hidden agenda”. This is just a very sad story about a bad working system (laws), which were made to protect the country from wrong immigrants, and ends up expelling the goods ones – and that is why the story hit the front pages and protests from the people.

[khunPer]

I wonder if writing to the Princess on grounds of compassion would have helped? After all, she used to be nothing more than an ordinary run-of-the-mill real estate agent in Australia before she married the Crown Prince.

Surely the Royal family could have the final say?

Monarchs in Scandinavia have entertainment value, no political power.

True – we are not living in Hamlet's age, but there are still someting rotten...!

Edited November 12, 2013 by khunPer

[tararam]

This case make big headlines in Denmark also.

This is from one of the Danish newspapers. (translated by google)

____________________________________________________________________________________

The government has indicated that it should be seen a second time on the rules that allowed seven Im Nielsen and her Thai mother on Sunday was deported to Thailand because her stepfather died of cancer in 2012.

But a change in the law will not Im Nielsen home Aabybro when she already deported.

Justice Minister Morten Bødskovs own party colleague Bjarne Laustsen (S) has urged the Minister to make a bill retroactively , the government took office. He tries according to the newspaper Nordjyske to form the majority in parliament that it can happen .

Bjarne Laustsen told the newspaper that such a change would include less than five people.

Morten Bødskov denies that it is possible.

- We legislature retroactively , but changes the rules , so it does not happen in the future, says Morten Bødskov .

Liberal Party vice-president and group leader of the party's parliamentary group Kristian Jensen ( V) wrote Tuesday on his Facebook profile that he favors tight immigration policy, but not heartless immigration policy.

Morten Bødskov says that it is the Liberal Party's own policy , Kristian Jensen scold .

- The rules we changed are the rules that existed under the Liberal government , as also Kristian Jensen was a minister . It is the government, which has said that this is an unfortunate case and therefore we are planning to look at how we can change the rules , says Morten Bødskov Ritzau .

It is the immigration authorities , who have made the decision that Suthida Nielsen most closely associated with Thailand and therefore should be exercised after his death .

Court of Hjørring have decided the case on Im Nielsen and decided to expel her because she has not been in the country for more than six years.

Bødskov will change the first rule , so no more being expelled because of death.

- Not least, Kristian Jensen, who was minister of the time when the Liberal government stood on these rules to back up that is now being seen in the rules , he says.

Im Nielsen lived with his mother, Suthida Nielsen, in Aabybro in North Jutland.

Im going to school and Suthida has just graduated from social and health care training and had a job at hand .

[MeowBundit]

Please do not blame anyone. First thing - as I understand, not child not mother had any residence status. So, they live on the some kind of marriage visa in DK. The reason to issue this kind of visa to foreigner is their bond to local national.

This guy was great, because he marry woman and adopt her child, at least in fact. Do not blame me too. I just look at fact. Even more, I have friend with her 100% TH child, who recently married French guy and move to France. They in the SAME situation now, until (and if) they acquire French RP.

Return to story - Both Mom and child holds LOS passports. There is NO RP issued to them. This is law, apart from emotions.

But, if we look to family relationships, do "grandmothers" and "granddads" interested in child and mom, after their son passed away? I think some king of guarantor will able to do something for them until they secure work/study visas in DK.

I think, in case of no RP and some property in DK can be acquired by mom by law, they will sell property if mom eligible to acquire passed husband assets, then they go back to LOS.

Just imagine you as foreigner here - your wife adopt your 100% foreign child, live together, married, etc. After 5 years she sells house, divorce and push you away from LOS. Yes, you still can return as tourist, worker, etc.

So, the situation similar to what may be happened in LOS, maybe visa issues not so strict.

[bangon04]

Bottom line the Danish Government does not want to have to support them.

and neither do the majority of Danish taxpayers, I guess, if you ask them.

The liberals can point to this sad case, and the hardliners can complain about the moslim rapists as they have in this thread, but the courts are already spending millions on the various loopholes and clever legal doubletalk. The more loopholes you open up, the more it costs the taxpayer. Same all over "liberal" Europe, and sooner or later the Europeans will finally realise that they can no longer afford the luxury of liberalism.

So then they move to Thailand?

[evothai]

What the hell does it matter if mother employed or not?

For some reasons child was in country, since she can remember.

Her father dies and her kicked out of the country, where she grew up: - Sorry, but we have laws. They are so strict...

And after all that you call yourself a civilized people? You call it a democracy? You dare to talk about humanism and human rights in another countries?

P.S. I really think, what happen would be better for child. I am sure thai government taking care about cityzens better than most another countries. She would be more secure and she would be among the good people.

Edited November 12, 2013 by evothai

[boisian]

So if you married a Thai woman and had a child with her and lived in Thailand and then she died, would you be allowed to stay?

girl was his stepdaughter, not that that would make a difference in family matters (unless he was woody allen) but obviously has legal implications in Denmark. But your question is still valid and interesting, if a different situation. I'll keep reading and hope someone answers.

[ronargo]

Denmark should be ashamed of themselves. How bout an attorney, pro-bono?

[Dukeleto]

So if you married a Thai woman and had a child with her and lived in Thailand and then she died, would you be allowed to stay?

The father was only the child's Stepfather and thus not biologically his, if my understanding is correct. Thus: If you married a Thai woman who already had a child and the wife died would you be allowed to stay in Thailand?

[i claudius]

If this had happened in Britain ,not only would they be allowed to stay ,but would get a house and benifits thrown in ,and if they sued the govt for being cruel they would have got compensation as well ,i kid you not.

[monkeycountry]

What the hell does it matter if mother employed or not?

For some reasons child was in country, since she can remember.

Her father dies and her kicked out of the country, where she grew up: - Sorry, but we have laws. They are so strict...

And after all that you call yourself a civilized people? You call it a democracy? You dare to talk about humanism and human rights in another countries?

P.S. I really think, what happen would be better for child. I am sure thai government taking care about cityzens better than most another countries. She would be more secure and she would be among the good people.

Yes, the welfare benefits in Thailand are much better than in Denmark. Tell me again, how much money can an unemployed Thai collect from the Thai government? Which university can the mother go to here in Thailand to study to become a teacher completely free of charge?

Further, what makes Thais "good people"? Is it the way Thais treat foreigners? Both farangs and those from Laos and Myanmar? Tell me again, which rights do any of these groups have in Thailand? Remember, the girl and her mom are both foreigners in Denmark.

See my post below. Now when was the last time a "good people" thai minister cared what happened to any foreigner in Thailand? And when was the last time "good people" Thais demonstrated to protect the rights of foreigners in Thailand?

Good people my a..

Edited November 13, 2013 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

The Danish justice minister has just announced that he is willing to change the law to get the girl and her mother back. However, as changing laws retroactively is a bit controversial, he wants all political parties to agree to it.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/politik/danskpolitik/article2147180.ece - in danish

[monkeycountry]

A few more facts in the case, that I think have not yet been written here.

The mother did go to court in order to stay in Denmark. Unfortunately the local court decided that because they had only been in Denmark for 3 years, not 6 as the law requires, they could not stay. The mother could have appealed the decision to a higher court, but was exhausted and therefore decided not to.

[Spare]

Sorry, but I think the only reason that she is in Denmark is because of the Farang father.

Since the Farang father no more, she she lost the only reason to remain.

Back to Thailand and who would be treated as a yellow skin alien.