Thai govt's time is running out, say protesters

[webfact]

Govt's time is running out, say protesters
Pravit Rojanaphruk

BANGKOK: -- Anti-government protesters say the Yingluck Shinawatra administration's days are numbered - although they differ on how it will be ousted.

Some protesters interviewed at the protest site at the Phan Fa Lilat Bridge on Tuesday preferred the House to be dissolved, while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

The call reflects the views of anti-government leaders such as Chamlong Srimuang and Sondhi Limthongkul, both former co-leaders of the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), who most recently said that politicians should be kept away from running the country for a few years.

Somboon, a retired staff member of a construction firm, said he didn't see how the government could survive, given the surge of protesters. "The bigwigs should prepare to flee. It's up to them how they will prepare themselves, however."

Somboon has been camping out with the Dhamma Army, led by the Santi Asoke sect of Buddhists, since they were at Lumpini Park. He said the group was becoming restless, claiming the Democrat Party-led demonstration was not willing to act decisively. Asked what he meant by acting decisively, he said some protesters wanted to seize the Government House.

Montorn Kongpayak, a shop owner from Surat Thani province, came to Bangkok a few days ago, camping on site. He told The Nation he agreed with Somboon, saying some protesters wanted closure soon.

Toe Suphongpat, a 62-year-old goldsmith from the nearby Charoen Krung area of Bangkok, was at the protest site Tuesday afternoon. He also predicted that PM Yingluck would eventually have to flee the Kingdom like her older brother, Thaksin. Toe said he would bring all his family and staff to join the strike and protest on Wednesday, though he's unsure how to achieve the ouster of Yingluck besides the dissolution of the House, as he believes a military coup is unlikely to occur.

All the interviewees said it didn't matter that the Senate had now rejected the blanket amnesty bill, as they didn't trust the government, which they all viewed as corrupt.


-- The Nation 2013-11-13

[MaxLee]

But but but didn't the government say they want to give themselves 180 days for further considerations????

[Bluespunk]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Bluespunk

[Thai at Heart]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

It's obviously not enough to overthrow a government, but this guy would like his opinion to be heard.

Which by pure contradiction he would like to then replace any chance he wants to have his democratic voice heard with a dictatorial government?

Nutjob

[ezzra]

It appears as though Mr. T went ' all in ' with his high stacks of chips, holding a dead man hand cards,

the result of that bet will soon be revealed...

[mmh8]

My suggestion to the people is let anarchy rule, drive however you want on the roads, make your own driving laws, make your own employment laws, ease you way around by greasing the joints, the cogs the gears,

[Thai at Heart]

It appears as though Mr. T went ' all in ' with his high stacks of chips, holding a dead man hand cards,

the result of that bet will soon be revealed...

Yup. He is about to cash in his get out if jail card, and realise that he has a KaoSan Rd copy.

[edwinchester]

Maybe 50k demonstrators for a day, only a few thousand left today.

Hardly a mass uprising is it.

Can see the Govt just waiting until it all blows over and then in 6 months time it all flares up again when the amnesty bill comes back to the lower house.

[JRSoul]

Repeating the same action while achieving the same bad result is a symptom of insanity. These gentlemen may be misguided, even flat wrong, but they are not insane.

Leaving aside whether their proposal is good or bad, I have a few reform suggestions;

Scrap the defamation laws and encourage programs which critically examine politicians and government policy

Make conflict of interest voting a serious crime not covered by MPs immunity

Have an independent police branch to specifically scrutinise politicians and their votes, with wide ranging powers including arrest for corruption

Make political parties have their policies and policy proposals audited and the cost/benefit evaluated, by a truly independent and qualified organisation

Scrap the party list system so that every MP has an electorate, and has to be judged as a fit person to represent those voters, rather than a criminal elected on the back of a vote for others.

Reform the education system and introduce some radical subjects like government and ethics.

[Local Drunk]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

It's obviously not enough to overthrow a government, but this guy would like his opinion to be heard.

Which by pure contradiction he would like to then replace any chance he wants to have his democratic voice heard with a dictatorial government?

Nutjob

Nutter perhaps, but what I like about it is that the Thai people are are beginning to speak their minds in a way that they haven't done before and regardless of his opinion it's a step in the right direction. Indeed, even the Thai journalists are becoming a bit more brazen in their stories. I see it as a positive.

[lemoncake]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

Thailand has never had a democratically elected government , Thailand only had pre-purchased government one way or another.

Perhaps Thailand is not ready for democracy or perhaps politicians need a break from the rat race.

Let's face it, rich will stay rich and poor will remain poor and no government will ever change that.

Those who want to work to move up to middle class do, and those waiting for the hand outs, continue to wait.

Same in the entire universe.

May be with appointed government and no politicians Thailand will move away from its current "hole" into more clear and better era

[coma]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

He does have one good point though. All current politicians should be sidelined for 5 years. What happens when they oust the PTP ? Who will fill the breach ? Some of the same old, same old ? It goes around in circles here in Thailand and has been for decades. Some countries are just not meant to be a democracy or are simply not ready for it. Unfortunately Thailand seems to fall in line with such countries.

[Emptyset]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

It's obviously not enough to overthrow a government, but this guy would like his opinion to be heard.

Which by pure contradiction he would like to then replace any chance he wants to have his democratic voice heard with a dictatorial government?

Nutjob

Nutter perhaps, but what I like about it is that the Thai people are are beginning to speak their minds in a way that they haven't done before and regardless of his opinion it's a step in the right direction. Indeed, even the Thai journalists are becoming a bit more brazen in their stories. I see it as a positive.

What's the basis for your opinion that journalists are more brazen? Surely not The Nation which has been vehemently anti-Thaksin for almost a decade now (one or two exceptions aside)? As for the protesters, this could have been said by anyone present at the 2006 & 2008 PAD protests where plenty of people were calling for the government's ouster and for it to be replaced by an appointed government. So what's the difference? What would be different were if anti-government protesters were saying something along the lines of: 'We hate this government, yet we accept it was elected. And what we're fighting for is more democracy and accountability, not less'. Make it unequivocal that they reject the government, but they also reject undemocratic, unelected options. And I think there probably are many protesters who would take that stance. In fact, I think many people are of the opinion that, after 2010, undemocratic options are no longer possible for Thailand. If so, this is a step forward.

But some guy saying he wants an appointed govt is nothing new, just more of the old. Shows that the default solution for many is still an authoritarian one. That people are still willing to protest for their own subjection to an undemocratic regime. So I see nothing positive in this particular statement. It's the old fallback and even if you supported it on the basis that it's best to forget about democracy temporarily for pragmatic reasons as there's nothing worse than a Shinawatra govt, it wouldn't work now anyway, even if it ever did. Though have to say I'd be against it even if I thought it wld solve problems temporarily, just on the basis of principle and because I think the only way to change things in the long term is to remain commited to democracy process.

[Emptyset]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

He does have one good point though. All current politicians should be sidelined for 5 years. What happens when they oust the PTP ? Who will fill the breach ? Some of the same old, same old ? It goes around in circles here in Thailand and has been for decades. Some countries are just not meant to be a democracy or are simply not ready for it. Unfortunately Thailand seems to fall in line with such countries.

If you had such high standards, no country would ever have been a democracy, certainly not Britain and the US which were corrupt to the core when democracy was at its inchoate stage (still is corrupt, many would argue, especially with the increasing influence of big business and lobbyists). You're only repeating the argument that authoritarians in Thailand have made for decades to justify undemocratic rule, that there's something essentially un-Thai about democracy, that Thais aren't capable of democracy and so on. In fact authoritarians in most countries in the world have made the same argument at one point or other. But the only way to become capable is to practice democracy. You don't learn to tolerate differences and engender pluralistic governance under a dictatorship.

And if Thailand can't afford democracy, can it really afford another dictatorship? I've seen no evidence that the governments which weren't democratic were any less corrupt than the ones that were. Quite the opposite. Look at the astonishing amount of money Sarit made as PM. It's a matter of perception. The press is more free to investigate and publicize stories on corruption in a democracy, and there's also an opposition to give a measure of oversight. Under a dictator, you don't have this so corruption isn't exposed. Having more corruption stories in the press is actually a good sign, a sign that the press is doing their job in uncovering it and that they have the freedom to do so.

In any case, if your main concern is corruption, then the problem isn't democracy, but begins with rule of law, education and inequality. And I don't see a dictatorship making any progress in those areas.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Emptyset

[Local Drunk]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

It's obviously not enough to overthrow a government, but this guy would like his opinion to be heard.

Which by pure contradiction he would like to then replace any chance he wants to have his democratic voice heard with a dictatorial government?

Nutjob

Nutter perhaps, but what I like about it is that the Thai people are are beginning to speak their minds in a way that they haven't done before and regardless of his opinion it's a step in the right direction. Indeed, even the Thai journalists are becoming a bit more brazen in their stories. I see it as a positive.

What's the basis for your opinion that journalists are more brazen? Surely not The Nation which has been vehemently anti-Thaksin for almost a decade now (one or two exceptions aside)? As for the protesters, this could have been said by anyone present at the 2006 & 2008 PAD protests where plenty of people were calling for the government's ouster and for it to be replaced by an appointed government. So what's the difference? What would be different were if anti-government protesters were saying something along the lines of: 'We hate this government, yet we accept it was elected. And what we're fighting for is more democracy and accountability, not less'. Make it unequivocal that they reject the government, but they also reject undemocratic, unelected options. And I think there probably are many protesters who would take that stance. In fact, I think many people are of the opinion that, after 2010, undemocratic options are no longer possible for Thailand. If so, this is a step forward.

But some guy saying he wants an appointed govt is nothing new, just more of the old. Shows that the default solution for many is still an authoritarian one. That people are still willing to protest for their own subjection to an undemocratic regime. So I see nothing positive in this particular statement. It's the old fallback and even if you supported it on the basis that it's best to forget about democracy temporarily for pragmatic reasons as there's nothing worse than a Shinawatra govt, it wouldn't work now anyway, even if it ever did. Though have to say I'd be against it even if I thought it wld solve problems temporarily, just on the basis of principle and because I think the only way to change things in the long term is to remain commited to democracy process.

Ahhh... but who has been coming to the protests against this government? Well, they aren't wearing colours, supporting or defending a cultic personality. They are here because of issues and they are intent on speaking their mind against the government, and that my friend is progress.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Local Drunk

[FangFerang]

Loi Kratong is a wildcard not in the powerbrokers' hands.

This weekend, most will go home to a celebration of tranquility, among other things. In a moment to consider, away from ranting leaders and high emotion, will the people on both sides realize that this escalating conflict will not be in Bangkok alone, that, instead, it will be on all of their own doorsteps?

Makes me hope an old question becomes a prophecy: "What if they started a war and nobody came?"

[EvilDrSomkid]

Repeating the same action while achieving the same bad result is a symptom of insanity. These gentlemen may be misguided, even flat wrong, but they are not insane.

Leaving aside whether their proposal is good or bad, I have a few reform suggestions;

Scrap the defamation laws and encourage programs which critically examine politicians and government policy

Make conflict of interest voting a serious crime not covered by MPs immunity

Have an independent police branch to specifically scrutinise politicians and their votes, with wide ranging powers including arrest for corruption

Make political parties have their policies and policy proposals audited and the cost/benefit evaluated, by a truly independent and qualified organisation

Scrap the party list system so that every MP has an electorate, and has to be judged as a fit person to represent those voters, rather than a criminal elected on the back of a vote for others.

Reform the education system and introduce some radical subjects like government and ethics.

Sound like good ideas. That's why it will never happen.

Nearly all the laws in place now are to protect powerful and rich people.

This is still a very hierarchical society. There is no egalitarianism like in Europe.

You need that in order to change the laws protecting the vested interests.

Edited November 13, 2013 by EvilDrSomkid

[fab4]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

You might want to think again about your last sentence when praising Khun Somboon Salobon's wishes.

Edited November 13, 2013 by fab4

[JRSoul]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

You might want to think again about your last sentence when praising Khun Somboon Salobon's wishes.

An inability to comprehend satire (as in this case), simple logic and humour is symptomatic of mental illness. You need help.

[marcusd]

Repeating the same action while achieving the same bad result is a symptom of insanity. These gentlemen may be misguided, even flat wrong, but they are not insane.

 

Leaving aside whether their proposal is good or bad, I have a few reform suggestions;

Scrap the defamation laws and encourage programs which critically examine politicians and government policy

Make conflict of interest voting a serious crime not covered by MPs immunity

Have an independent police branch to specifically scrutinise politicians and their votes, with wide ranging powers including arrest for corruption

Make political parties have their policies and policy proposals audited and the cost/benefit evaluated, by a truly independent and qualified organisation

Scrap the party list system so that every MP has an electorate, and has to be judged as a fit person to represent those voters, rather than a criminal elected on the back of a vote for others.

Reform the education system and introduce some radical subjects like government and ethics. 

ummm. You want the corrupt to vote themselves out?

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

[Pimay1]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

You might want to think again about your last sentence when praising Khun Somboon Salobon's wishes.

An inability to comprehend satire (as in this case), simple logic and humour is symptomatic of mental illness. You need help.

If English is not a person's first language it is understandable they might not recognize satire. That's why we need a satire icon.

[tominbkk]

How many protestors out now? More or less than Monday? No news on that....

[JRSoul]

Repeating the same action while achieving the same bad result is a symptom of insanity. These gentlemen may be misguided, even flat wrong, but they are not insane.

Leaving aside whether their proposal is good or bad, I have a few reform suggestions;

Scrap the defamation laws and encourage programs which critically examine politicians and government policy

Make conflict of interest voting a serious crime not covered by MPs immunity

Have an independent police branch to specifically scrutinise politicians and their votes, with wide ranging powers including arrest for corruption

Make political parties have their policies and policy proposals audited and the cost/benefit evaluated, by a truly independent and qualified organisation

Scrap the party list system so that every MP has an electorate, and has to be judged as a fit person to represent those voters, rather than a criminal elected on the back of a vote for others.

Reform the education system and introduce some radical subjects like government and ethics.

ummm. You want the corrupt to vote themselves out?

No, I think those reforms would have to be carried out by a non-elected temporary government. Very undemocratic, for sure, but wouldn't the next elected government be much more democratic and much less prone to corruption? One thing is for sure, if the system is left as is, it will take a very long time to reform itself, if ever, and things a likely to get much worse before they get better.

[h90]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

you misread it.

If you read it: Make an expert government, which prepares changes for more democracy and prepares new elections, than it sounds much better but it means the same.

Many countries have such appointed governments in their constitution for situations of emergencies.

Just have a look at the Democracy in North Korea, do you think you could change the ruling class with elections? No.

In Thailand it isn't that bad, but it is also a few families who control the country, no matter who you vote for.

While I understand what Mr. Somboon means, I can't see how it should work in the real life.

The complete system must be shaken up and vote buying eliminated and he is right only an appointed government can do that.

But it escapes me: where to find these good people and how to ensure that they are free of all influence?

[Spare]

Maybe 50k demonstrators for a day, only a few thousand left today.

Hardly a mass uprising is it.

Can see the Govt just waiting until it all blows over and then in 6 months time it all flares up again when the amnesty bill comes back to the lower house.

Only a few thousand left, because all are on strike, and took the opportunity to visit Hua Hin for the long week-end.

[tingtongteesood]

Maybe 50k demonstrators for a day, only a few thousand left today.

Hardly a mass uprising is it.

Can see the Govt just waiting until it all blows over and then in 6 months time it all flares up again when the amnesty bill comes back to the lower house.

Well unlike the Red Shirt rioters, there are no bribes being paid to the anti amnesty protesters, they came out because they believe in the cause but a great many of them have like jobs and stuff, you know what they are ? People need money and need jobs to survive in this world and since there is no rich fugitive criminal on the run paying them to protest, normal life must go on.....Do you get me ?

[Sunisalom]

My suggestion to the people is let anarchy rule, drive however you want on the roads, make your own driving laws, make your own employment laws, ease you way around by greasing the joints, the cogs the gears,

You mean business as ususal? That's not really a promise of change, is it?

-mel.

[brewsterbudgen]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

Thailand has never had a democratically elected government , Thailand only had pre-purchased government one way or another.

Perhaps Thailand is not ready for democracy or perhaps politicians need a break from the rat race.

Let's face it, rich will stay rich and poor will remain poor and no government will ever change that.

Those who want to work to move up to middle class do, and those waiting for the hand outs, continue to wait.

Same in the entire universe.

May be with appointed government and no politicians Thailand will move away from its current "hole" into more clear and better era

What patronising nonsense.

[edwinchester]

Maybe 50k demonstrators for a day, only a few thousand left today.

Hardly a mass uprising is it.

Can see the Govt just waiting until it all blows over and then in 6 months time it all flares up again when the amnesty bill comes back to the lower house.

 

Well  unlike the Red Shirt  rioters, there are no bribes being paid to the anti amnesty protesters, they came out because they believe in the cause but a great many of them have like jobs and stuff, you know what they are ? People need money and need jobs to survive in this world and since there is no rich fugitive criminal on the run paying them to protest, normal life must go on.....Do you get me ?

I understand. I am just saying that this is not yet a mass uprising and as such stands next to no chance of achieving it's aims.

This will now fade away as will the fuss over Preah Vahear and resurface again in 174 days.

[Thai at Heart]

"while others wanted a royally appointed government and the banning of all politicians from politics for a few years.

"There should be no more elections from now on," declared 63-year-old Somboon Salobon from Suphan Buri province. "We should do away with [elections] for a while in order to launch reform."

Ah the voices of sanity, the voices of reason, the true children of a democratic and free society. We bow down and salute you and your wondrous words of freedom supporting the rights of people to choose their own leaders and government.

It's obviously not enough to overthrow a government, but this guy would like his opinion to be heard.

Which by pure contradiction he would like to then replace any chance he wants to have his democratic voice heard with a dictatorial government?

Nutjob

Nutter perhaps, but what I like about it is that the Thai people are are beginning to speak their minds in a way that they haven't done before and regardless of his opinion it's a step in the right direction. Indeed, even the Thai journalists are becoming a bit more brazen in their stories. I see it as a positive.

Indeed. They speak their minds and hanker for less democracy and a dictatorial solution. How about taking the next step of,, we want the dirty politicians out,, age we want no corruption?

Can you imagine how brain washed you have to be to want an appointed government in this situation? Did anyone bother to ask him if he's sure this appointed government would ever give him his vote back.

It's a dimwit view through rose tinted glasses. The good old days of dictatorship.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Thai at Heart