Boat captain abandons novice US divers in middle of the ocean in Thailand

[bonobo]

Hardly, but that goes without saying as the nearest 'ocean' (Indian?) is some distance from Thailand.

Not to be pedantic, but the Andaman Sea is technically part of the Indian Ocean. In this case, though, the newspaper was using the generic "ocean," I would think.

[hansgruber]

I can't believe people are defending this. Just because it happened somewhere else once does not excuse this in any way.

People who defend it have interests in the dive industry.

Stevenl is in this industry in Phuket.

[JulesMad]

0. What company and who is the owner?

1. When and Where?

2. Thai (water) sharks do not attack people

3. There is no diving in "the middle of the ocean", because there is nothing to see...

4. There is no ocean in Thailand

5. Where is "MESA, Ariz."?

6. What is "An East Valley couple"?

If this is not answered, I do not believe this article! Way too much BS....

Google is your friend.

Chai But I am not so interested about America

[JulesMad]

0. What company and who is the owner?

1. When and Where?

2. Thai (water) sharks do not attack people

3. There is no diving in "the middle of the ocean", because there is nothing to see...

4. There is no ocean in Thailand

5. Where is "MESA, Ariz."?

6. What is "An East Valley couple"?

If this is not answered, I do not believe this article! Way too much BS....

It is against Thai Visa rules to name the company.

Too bad! These guys and company should be reported, but if the 'novice US divers' are not interested, who am I?!?

[FolkGuitar]

What a wonderful way to incite readership... Sensationalism worthy of a sleazy supermarket tabloid, along side articles about alien abduction and sightings of Elvis...

As a Divemaster with over 20 years experience diving all over the world, I feel compelled to say that this is NOT a Thai problem. Divers get left in the water everywhere. And in the past 10-15 years there have only been a couple of fatalities, far fewer than in skiing, sailing, equestrian sports, motorcycle riding or rock climbing. So few, in fact, that when the potential for it happens, it makes good copy to sell newspapers... Look at the facts...

'Abandoned in the middle of the ocean..' Where in Thailand are there dive sites 'in the middle of the ocean next to cliffs too steep to climb?'

Most Thai dive sites are damn close to fishing areas and Thai fishing boats are ALWAYS going back and forth. You might have to wait 30 minutes to an hour until one comes along.

Every competent, experienced diver carries signalling equipment on every dive. These 'poor inexperienced divers' weren't alone... They were with four other divers, two of whom were INSTRUCTORS. I have a whistle attached to my BCD that can be heard almost a mile away over the water. Many dive companies attach these to all their rental BCDs. They are cheap insurance. We also carry an inflatable 'safety sausages' which it seems one of the divers in this group had as well. This is STANDARD SAFETY EQUIPMENT, and very effective.

As for 'bobbing in the water until exhausted...' Why? They are wearing inflatable Buoyancy Compensation Devices. The operative word here is BUOYANCY. They aren't going to sink no matter how hard they try. You inflate the vests, tie yourselves together so you don't drift apart, lay back and relax waiting for a pickup. There is no effort involved. And with the cliffs right there, even though they couldn't climb them, they could certainly tie into them so as not to drift off...

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

The captain of the boat made a judgement call, and followed the procedures laid out by his company. He knew that the inexperienced divers were with two VERY experience dive professionals, as well as two other experienced divers. Apparently he radioed of a recovery boat to be dispatched. I won't debate the validity of the company's emergency plan, but I will say that these inexperienced divers were in no more danger on top of the water than they were while they were diving.

[luckizuchinni]

0. What company and who is the owner?

1. When and Where?

2. Thai (water) sharks do not attack people

3. There is no diving in "the middle of the ocean", because there is nothing to see...

4. There is no ocean in Thailand

5. Where is "MESA, Ariz."?

6. What is "An East Valley couple"?

If this is not answered, I do not believe this article! Way too much BS....

Google is your friend.

Chai But I am not so interested about America

Then why did you ask?

[bangkokfanatic]

Reminds me of the dive group who were off Kupang, Indonesia about 15 years ago. They were enjoying the crystal clear water... until hey saw all of this stuff come drifting down to the bottom... turns out it was all of their bags & gear... the stuff that didn't float. Followed by their dive boat itself!

The Captain had gone to sleep and hadn't noticed the boat was filling fast until it was too late!

Edited November 16, 2013 by bangkokfanatic

[bonobo]

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

Again, not to be pedantic, but:

great white, tiger, bull, oceanic white tip, hammerhead, gray reef, lemon, mako, silky, blue blackitip reef, Galapagos, cookiecutter . . .

Some of these rarely attack unprovoked or where the water is clear, but still, they all have done so, with most having made at least some fatal attacks.

However, the fear of sharks is not too rational given the reality. Unless you were on the Indianapolis or the Nova Scotia, your chances of getting attacked, much less killed, by a shark are extremely remote.

[Showbags]

I have been chased by 3 sharks now.

I don't like them.

[aussiebrian]

You missed something, in the original link it says "Exhausted and freezing, Lexa collapsed and split her chin open. The wound required stitches." Oh right, freezing in Thai waters with a wet suit on, amazing!! 555

What a wonderful way to incite readership... Sensationalism worthy of a sleazy supermarket tabloid, along side articles about alien abduction and sightings of Elvis...

As a Divemaster with over 20 years experience diving all over the world, I feel compelled to say that this is NOT a Thai problem. Divers get left in the water everywhere. And in the past 10-15 years there have only been a couple of fatalities, far fewer than in skiing, sailing, equestrian sports, motorcycle riding or rock climbing. So few, in fact, that when the potential for it happens, it makes good copy to sell newspapers... Look at the facts...

'Abandoned in the middle of the ocean..' Where in Thailand are there dive sites 'in the middle of the ocean next to cliffs too steep to climb?'

Most Thai dive sites are dam_n close to fishing areas and Thai fishing boats are ALWAYS going back and forth. You might have to wait 30 minutes to an hour until one comes along.

Every competent, experienced diver carries signalling equipment on every dive. These 'poor inexperienced divers' weren't alone... They were with four other divers, two of whom were INSTRUCTORS. I have a whistle attached to my BCD that can be heard almost a mile away over the water. Many dive companies attach these to all their rental BCDs. They are cheap insurance. We also carry an inflatable 'safety sausages' which it seems one of the divers in this group had as well. This is STANDARD SAFETY EQUIPMENT, and very effective.

As for 'bobbing in the water until exhausted...' Why? They are wearing inflatable Buoyancy Compensation Devices. The operative word here is BUOYANCY. They aren't going to sink no matter how hard they try. You inflate the vests, tie yourselves together so you don't drift apart, lay back and relax waiting for a pickup. There is no effort involved. And with the cliffs right there, even though they couldn't climb them, they could certainly tie into them so as not to drift off...

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

The captain of the boat made a judgement call, and followed the procedures laid out by his company. He knew that the inexperienced divers were with two VERY experience dive professionals, as well as two other experienced divers. Apparently he radioed of a recovery boat to be dispatched. I won't debate the validity of the company's emergency plan, but I will say that these inexperienced divers were in no more danger on top of the water than they were while they were diving.

Edited November 16, 2013 by aussiebrian

[aussiebrian]

I have been chased by 3 sharks now.

I don't like them.

I think they don't think much of you either or they would have caught you, or did you out swim them?

Times like that you can say a prayer of thanks to the fishermen that killed all the sharks in the ocean and the Chinese that ate them all. Amen.

Man is normally the aggressor not the shark.. You need to watch this amazing documentary If you dare..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI1YBCMqbik

Edited November 16, 2013 by aussiebrian

[PlastikbinLina]

Sorry for this rather verbose tale but I think it's worth telling.

This unfortunate experience is not the first time or the last time it will happen and it happens even with the most highly qualified SCUBA divers . It's happened to me twice over the years, in 1980 and in 1982 in Papua New Guinea. However the worst case of boat gone missing in my memory was in the Celebes Islands Indonesia at Bira a small village on the south coast, south of Ujung Padang. I planned to dive off a small Island at Bira but the Indonesian dive shop there had hired out the fishing boat with Indonesian crew to six Japanese divers. The Island is a good place for drift diving when the tide is right. Accompanying them was the dive shop Indonesian diver. The Japanese divers main interest was to see sharks and there are many to see, usually about 120' or so. They all dived including the Indonesian. Their mistake as was mine, was not leaving someone on the boat to instruct the boat crew to watch out for the divers return. It seems all six got caught in a strong drift tide and came up at the other end of the island to where they entered the water. They couldn't attract the attention of the boat crew and it was getting very late in the afternoon.

They drifted grouped together in a tight circle for 3 days and two nights when the Indonesian diver Azim Bin Yakub decided to try and swim to an island some distance away. He's not sure how far it was but he made it. I spoke to him later. He said the Japs didn't want to try. If ever you've been in a similar situation distance is very hard to judge with only your head just above water and especially if its choppy and land is just a blip on the horizon. It's not al all funny I can tell you. It happened on the 11 December 1998 almost 15 years ago next month.

The following Divers were never seen again. . Mr Kacomiya Assistant Diving Instructor, Mr Matsumoto, Diving Instructor Mr. Ishijima Advance Monitor Diver, Ms Okubo Advance Monitor DIver, Mrs Yamamoto Diving Instructor, Mrs Masoko Kato Diver, Ms Kato Maho Diver.

Edited November 16, 2013 by PlastikbinLina

[SaamBaht]

This really shocked me, until I realized that it was Thailand. Now it just makes sense.

[Kudel]

You missed something, in the original link it says "Exhausted and freezing, Lexa collapsed and split her chin open. The wound required stitches." Oh right, freezing in Thai waters with a wet suit on, amazing!! 555

What a wonderful way to incite readership... Sensationalism worthy of a sleazy supermarket tabloid, along side articles about alien abduction and sightings of Elvis...

As a Divemaster with over 20 years experience diving all over the world, I feel compelled to say that this is NOT a Thai problem. Divers get left in the water everywhere. And in the past 10-15 years there have only been a couple of fatalities, far fewer than in skiing, sailing, equestrian sports, motorcycle riding or rock climbing. So few, in fact, that when the potential for it happens, it makes good copy to sell newspapers... Look at the facts...

'Abandoned in the middle of the ocean..' Where in Thailand are there dive sites 'in the middle of the ocean next to cliffs too steep to climb?'

Most Thai dive sites are dam_n close to fishing areas and Thai fishing boats are ALWAYS going back and forth. You might have to wait 30 minutes to an hour until one comes along.

Every competent, experienced diver carries signalling equipment on every dive. These 'poor inexperienced divers' weren't alone... They were with four other divers, two of whom were INSTRUCTORS. I have a whistle attached to my BCD that can be heard almost a mile away over the water. Many dive companies attach these to all their rental BCDs. They are cheap insurance. We also carry an inflatable 'safety sausages' which it seems one of the divers in this group had as well. This is STANDARD SAFETY EQUIPMENT, and very effective.

As for 'bobbing in the water until exhausted...' Why? They are wearing inflatable Buoyancy Compensation Devices. The operative word here is BUOYANCY. They aren't going to sink no matter how hard they try. You inflate the vests, tie yourselves together so you don't drift apart, lay back and relax waiting for a pickup. There is no effort involved. And with the cliffs right there, even though they couldn't climb them, they could certainly tie into them so as not to drift off...

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

The captain of the boat made a judgement call, and followed the procedures laid out by his company. He knew that the inexperienced divers were with two VERY experience dive professionals, as well as two other experienced divers. Apparently he radioed of a recovery boat to be dispatched. I won't debate the validity of the company's emergency plan, but I will say that these inexperienced divers were in no more danger on top of the water than they were while they were diving.

The human body has a temp of about 37C,staying long enough in water below that temp can have somebody suffer from hypothermia even in Thailands waters,every so called expert diver or people who have had sea survival training will confirm this .

[FolkGuitar]

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

Again, not to be pedantic, but:

great white, tiger, bull, oceanic white tip, hammerhead, gray reef, lemon, mako, silky, blue blackitip reef, Galapagos, cookiecutter . . .

Some of these rarely attack unprovoked or where the water is clear, but still, they all have done so, with most having made at least some fatal attacks.

However, the fear of sharks is not too rational given the reality. Unless you were on the Indianapolis or the Nova Scotia, your chances of getting attacked, much less killed, by a shark are extremely remote.

While I appreciate your post for 'it's' accuracy, if you check these attacks you'll discover that most have been against 'surfers,' not scuba divers.

Think about food for large sharks... seals, turtles, and fish, etc. Now try and visualize what the shark sees when he's below a surfer laying on his board... arms out, legs out, and a long thin body, all in silhouette, looking just like a tasty seal. Mr. Shark swims in, takes a great big bite, "Eeeeuuuwww! This doesn't taste like a seal!" and swims off. Have you ever heard of a shark attack where the shark stayed around to finish the meal? It just doesn't happen. People (and surf boards) are not shark food. Granted, when I ask my wife to swim closer to the feeding sharks so I can get a better picture, and she gets too close, the sharks will begin to make threatening, aggressive movements, which to my wife is quick to listen, and beats a hasty retreat. To date, no shark has moved to follow her. They just continue to gobble up fish.

[FolkGuitar]

You missed something, in the original link it says "Exhausted and freezing, Lexa collapsed and split her chin open. The wound required stitches." Oh right, freezing in Thai waters with a wet suit on, amazing!! 555

I did miss that. On what did she split open her chin? Not many hard surfaces in the middle of the ocean... unless she was climbing on one of the other divers in a panic attempt to get out of the water, and hit her chin on the divers primary atop the tank. While many will castigate the boat captain, I'm more inclined to think the instructors may have failed to maintain order while waiting for pickup.

[SaamBaht]

Does this incident substantiate claims that many Thais have difficulty experiencing empathy?

Edited November 16, 2013 by SaamBaht

[Showbags]

Sorry for this rather verbose tale but I think it's worth telling.

This unfortunate experience is not the first time or the last time it will happen and it happens even with the most highly qualified SCUBA divers . It's happened to me twice over the years, in 1980 and in 1982 in Papua New Guinea. However the worst case of boat gone missing in my memory was in the Celebes Islands Indonesia at Bira a small village on the south coast, south of Ujung Padang. I planned to dive off a small Island at Bira but the Indonesian dive shop there had hired out the fishing boat with Indonesian crew to six Japanese divers. The Island is a good place for drift diving when the tide is right. Accompanying them was the dive shop Indonesian diver. The Japanese divers main interest was to see sharks and there are many to see, usually about 120' or so. They all dived including the Indonesian. Their mistake as was mine, was not leaving someone on the boat to instruct the boat crew to watch out for the divers return. It seems all six got caught in a strong drift tide and came up at the other end of the island to where they entered the water. They couldn't attract the attention of the boat crew and it was getting very late in the afternoon.

They drifted grouped together in a tight circle for 3 days and two nights when the Indonesian diver Azim Bin Yakub decided to try and swim to an island some distance away. He's not sure how far it was but he made it. I spoke to him later. He said the Japs didn't want to try. If ever you've been in a similar situation distance is very hard to judge with only your head just above water and especially if its choppy and land is just a blip on the horizon. It's not al all funny I can tell you. It happened on the 11 December 1998 almost 15 years ago next month.

The following Divers were never seen again. . Mr Kacomiya Assistant Diving Instructor, Mr Matsumoto, Diving Instructor Mr. Ishijima Advance Monitor Diver, Ms Okubo Advance Monitor DIver, Mrs Yamamoto Diving Instructor, Mrs Masoko Kato Diver, Ms Kato Maho Diver.

I know that dive shop...or the one that is there now anyway, was there few months ago.......very strong currents in the area.

[FolkGuitar]

The human body has a temp of about 37C,staying long enough in water below that temp can have somebody suffer from hypothermia even in Thailands waters,every so called expert diver or people who have had sea survival training will confirm this .

No doubt about it, hypothermia can do in the strongest individual, and nothing saps body heat as quickly as water. Especially cold water...

But Thailand's water is quite warm this time of year. Warm enough so that many don't even bother with a wet suit, and if they wear one at all, it's usually a shortie. 2-3 hours in this water may chill you, but it won't kill you. And if you ARE wearing a wet suit, keeping still so the water inside the suit warms up makes a great insulator. If this woman was bouncing around in a panic, her wet suit water would be constantly cooling, and I blame that on the Instructor's lack of group control. Still, in all, three hours in Thai water would be uncomfortable, but probably not deadly unless she was in no condition to be diving in the first place.

[FolkGuitar]

Sorry for this rather verbose tale but I think it's worth telling.

This unfortunate experience is not the first time or the last time it will happen and it happens even with the most highly qualified SCUBA divers . It's happened to me twice over the years, in 1980 and in 1982 in Papua New Guinea. However the worst case of boat gone missing in my memory was in the Celebes Islands Indonesia at Bira a small village on the south coast, south of Ujung Padang. I planned to dive off a small Island at Bira but the Indonesian dive shop there had hired out the fishing boat with Indonesian crew to six Japanese divers. The Island is a good place for drift diving when the tide is right. Accompanying them was the dive shop Indonesian diver. The Japanese divers main interest was to see sharks and there are many to see, usually about 120' or so. They all dived including the Indonesian. Their mistake as was mine, was not leaving someone on the boat to instruct the boat crew to watch out for the divers return. It seems all six got caught in a strong drift tide and came up at the other end of the island to where they entered the water. They couldn't attract the attention of the boat crew and it was getting very late in the afternoon.

They drifted grouped together in a tight circle for 3 days and two nights when the Indonesian diver Azim Bin Yakub decided to try and swim to an island some distance away. He's not sure how far it was but he made it. I spoke to him later. He said the Japs didn't want to try. If ever you've been in a similar situation distance is very hard to judge with only your head just above water and especially if its choppy and land is just a blip on the horizon. It's not al all funny I can tell you. It happened on the 11 December 1998 almost 15 years ago next month.

The following Divers were never seen again. . Mr Kacomiya Assistant Diving Instructor, Mr Matsumoto, Diving Instructor Mr. Ishijima Advance Monitor Diver, Ms Okubo Advance Monitor DIver, Mrs Yamamoto Diving Instructor, Mrs Masoko Kato Diver, Ms Kato Maho Diver.

Very surprising... So many advanced and professional divers, yet none considered ditching weights and tanks, filling BCDs, flipping onto their backs and leisurely finning to the closest land? Doesn't take that long to fin a few miles. They could always return to pick up gear later. Many California shore divers often spend an hour or two finning out to their dive sites.

[aussiebrian]

You missed something, in the original link it says "Exhausted and freezing, Lexa collapsed and split her chin open. The wound required stitches." Oh right, freezing in Thai waters with a wet suit on, amazing!! 555

What a wonderful way to incite readership... Sensationalism worthy of a sleazy supermarket tabloid, along side articles about alien abduction and sightings of Elvis...

As a Divemaster with over 20 years experience diving all over the world, I feel compelled to say that this is NOT a Thai problem. Divers get left in the water everywhere. And in the past 10-15 years there have only been a couple of fatalities, far fewer than in skiing, sailing, equestrian sports, motorcycle riding or rock climbing. So few, in fact, that when the potential for it happens, it makes good copy to sell newspapers... Look at the facts...

'Abandoned in the middle of the ocean..' Where in Thailand are there dive sites 'in the middle of the ocean next to cliffs too steep to climb?'

Most Thai dive sites are dam_n close to fishing areas and Thai fishing boats are ALWAYS going back and forth. You might have to wait 30 minutes to an hour until one comes along.

Every competent, experienced diver carries signalling equipment on every dive. These 'poor inexperienced divers' weren't alone... They were with four other divers, two of whom were INSTRUCTORS. I have a whistle attached to my BCD that can be heard almost a mile away over the water. Many dive companies attach these to all their rental BCDs. They are cheap insurance. We also carry an inflatable 'safety sausages' which it seems one of the divers in this group had as well. This is STANDARD SAFETY EQUIPMENT, and very effective.

As for 'bobbing in the water until exhausted...' Why? They are wearing inflatable Buoyancy Compensation Devices. The operative word here is BUOYANCY. They aren't going to sink no matter how hard they try. You inflate the vests, tie yourselves together so you don't drift apart, lay back and relax waiting for a pickup. There is no effort involved. And with the cliffs right there, even though they couldn't climb them, they could certainly tie into them so as not to drift off...

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

The captain of the boat made a judgement call, and followed the procedures laid out by his company. He knew that the inexperienced divers were with two VERY experience dive professionals, as well as two other experienced divers. Apparently he radioed of a recovery boat to be dispatched. I won't debate the validity of the company's emergency plan, but I will say that these inexperienced divers were in no more danger on top of the water than they were while they were diving.

The human body has a temp of about 37C,staying long enough in water below that temp can have somebody suffer from hypothermia even in Thailands waters,every so called expert diver or people who have had sea survival training will confirm this .

You are kidding aren't you. Yes, Long Enough. This diver would have been in the water for a maximum time of 1hr 30 mins with a wet suit on and she said she was freezing! The water temperature would be around 30 deg and "she had a wet suit on". This would be impossible to be freezing unless it was due to fear, and by the response of the owner of the dive school said "We apologised to the customers and explained everything to them. They said they understood what had happen but at know point did they say they felt "abandoned at sea"" so I doubt very much if you could be freezing with fear in such a short time.

I can swim all day in the sea in Thai waters with no wet suit and never felt cold, and SCUBA dived around a hundred times and never felt cold either. I have felt cold SCUBA diving in Australia even with a 7mm wet suit.

Edited November 16, 2013 by aussiebrian

[aussiebrian]

I've just joined this forum to post a reply. I am the owner of this dive company this story is about.

Firstly I'd like to say that I can not believe that this have made international news. Please don't believe everything that you read in the american news or the daily mail for that matter.

I would like to explain myself and my company. We have a 100% safety record in our shop and pride ourselves in this.

So some of the events in the story did happen. Our boat did breakdown but at know point did our captain abandon anyone. It is not a common occurrence that our boat breaks down but he have strict set procedure in place so that if something happens all our customers are safe.

During the dive the captain was having battery problems on the boat. The customers in article insisted on seeing sharks so we went to that site. On that dive site there is no buoy lines to moor up on and we can not drop an anchor as it is a national marine park and could damage coral.

The captain is employed with us and is a good captain and he followed the procedures correctly. When he realised that he could not fix the boat he called back to our manager at the dive shop who organised another boat to collect them. We radioed another boat that we knew was in the area to go and collect the divers.

This did take a little bit time around 30 minutes in total.

The instructor who was with the customers has been diving in Thailand for over 10 years and knows the shop procedures. So knew they would be fine and was assuring the divers this.

There were shark in the water as the divers requested us to go to the shark site but the sharks in question are Black Tip Reef sharks. If you don't know your sharks they range from around 50cm-150cm and live on small reef fish. There has never been a known attack from these types of shark as they are quite timid creatures and scared of divers.

So at no time was anyone in danger of getting attacked by a shark!

When climbing onto the other boat that arrived the collect the divers unfortunately the lady in the video did slip. She hit her chin on the boat and we are very sorry about this. Our dive shop has medical insurance so we told the divers to go to the hospital to have a look at her chin and used the medical insurance through the dive shop to cover the costs.

As you can see this was not our most perfect day out diving but all my staff followed the correct procedure to ensure the safety of these divers.

We apologised to the customers and explained everything to them. They said they understood what had happen but at know point did they say they felt "abandoned at sea"

I am just guess when they got home they wanted there 5 minutes of fame. It is just unfortunate that there limelight brings such a bad name to the diving in thailand and to my shop.

Diving standard in thailand are very high compared with other part of the world and at our shop we stick to these high standard.

I can't actually believe that I have to reply and defend my shop and diving in Thailand to such a ridiculous article.

You missed something, in the original link it says "Exhausted and freezing, Lexa collapsed and split her chin open. The wound required stitches." Oh right, freezing in Thai waters with a wet suit on, amazing!! 555

I did miss that. On what did she split open her chin? Not many hard surfaces in the middle of the ocean... unless she was climbing on one of the other divers in a panic attempt to get out of the water, and hit her chin on the divers primary atop the tank. While many will castigate the boat captain, I'm more inclined to think the instructors may have failed to maintain order while waiting for pickup.

Chris in his post pointed out "When climbing onto the other boat that arrived the collect the divers unfortunately the lady in the video did slip. She hit her chin on the boat and we are very sorry about this. Our dive shop has medical insurance so we told the divers to go to the hospital to have a look at her chin and used the medical insurance through the dive shop to cover the costs."

[Kudel]

You missed something, in the original link it says "Exhausted and freezing, Lexa collapsed and split her chin open. The wound required stitches." Oh right, freezing in Thai waters with a wet suit on, amazing!! 555

What a wonderful way to incite readership... Sensationalism worthy of a sleazy supermarket tabloid, along side articles about alien abduction and sightings of Elvis...

As a Divemaster with over 20 years experience diving all over the world, I feel compelled to say that this is NOT a Thai problem. Divers get left in the water everywhere. And in the past 10-15 years there have only been a couple of fatalities, far fewer than in skiing, sailing, equestrian sports, motorcycle riding or rock climbing. So few, in fact, that when the potential for it happens, it makes good copy to sell newspapers... Look at the facts...

'Abandoned in the middle of the ocean..' Where in Thailand are there dive sites 'in the middle of the ocean next to cliffs too steep to climb?'

Most Thai dive sites are dam_n close to fishing areas and Thai fishing boats are ALWAYS going back and forth. You might have to wait 30 minutes to an hour until one comes along.

Every competent, experienced diver carries signalling equipment on every dive. These 'poor inexperienced divers' weren't alone... They were with four other divers, two of whom were INSTRUCTORS. I have a whistle attached to my BCD that can be heard almost a mile away over the water. Many dive companies attach these to all their rental BCDs. They are cheap insurance. We also carry an inflatable 'safety sausages' which it seems one of the divers in this group had as well. This is STANDARD SAFETY EQUIPMENT, and very effective.

As for 'bobbing in the water until exhausted...' Why? They are wearing inflatable Buoyancy Compensation Devices. The operative word here is BUOYANCY. They aren't going to sink no matter how hard they try. You inflate the vests, tie yourselves together so you don't drift apart, lay back and relax waiting for a pickup. There is no effort involved. And with the cliffs right there, even though they couldn't climb them, they could certainly tie into them so as not to drift off...

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

The captain of the boat made a judgement call, and followed the procedures laid out by his company. He knew that the inexperienced divers were with two VERY experience dive professionals, as well as two other experienced divers. Apparently he radioed of a recovery boat to be dispatched. I won't debate the validity of the company's emergency plan, but I will say that these inexperienced divers were in no more danger on top of the water than they were while they were diving.

The human body has a temp of about 37C,staying long enough in water below that temp can have somebody suffer from hypothermia even in Thailands waters,every so called expert diver or people who have had sea survival training will confirm this .

You are kidding aren't you. Yes, Long Enough. This diver would have been in the water for a maximum time of 1hr 30 mins with a wet suit on and she said she was freezing! The water temperature would be around 30 deg and "she had a wet suit on". This would be impossible to be freezing unless it was due to fear, and by the response of the owner of the dive school said "We apologised to the customers and explained everything to them. They said they understood what had happen but at know point did they say they felt "abandoned at sea"" so I doubt very much if you could be freezing with fear in such a short time.

I can swim all day in the sea in Thai waters with no wet suit and never felt cold, and SCUBA dived around a hundred times and never felt cold either. I have felt cold SCUBA diving in Australia even with a 7mm wet suit.

no not kidding some people react different physically and mentally to this kind of situations ,remember they where novice divers.

And i feel many of the diving community in Thailand are doing theyre very best to minimize certain things concerning this incident.I seem to remember around 2006/2007 there where demonstrations from dive operating staf on phuket because of more strikt regulations for dive operators concerning safety because the top long stay rackets to stay long term in that time in Thailand as a foreigner was dive instructor or english teacher .

Edited November 16, 2013 by Kudel

[PoetDrunkInTheBoat]

Does this incident substantiate claims that many Thais have difficulty experiencing empathy?

Did you just fall off the boat here in Thailand, for asking such an obviously uninformed question?

I think, yes.

If you really wish to know about the ability to feel empathy, as researched cross culturally,

Then you would need to actually do some reading, and some living among the people born in Thailand.

I doubt someone who asks such a question as you ask here,

Might even be truly interested in doing this, since it might contradict so many of your biased opinions.

Just my opinion, of course.

[FolkGuitar]

You are kidding aren't you. Yes, Long Enough. This diver would have been in the water for a maximum time of 1hr 30 mins with a wet suit on and she said she was freezing! The water temperature would be around 30 deg and "she had a wet suit on". This would be impossible to be freezing unless it was due to fear, and by the response of the owner of the dive school said "We apologised to the customers and explained everything to them. They said they understood what had happen but at know point did they say they felt "abandoned at sea"" so I doubt very much if you could be freezing with fear in such a short time.

I can swim all day in the sea in Thai waters with no wet suit and never felt cold, and SCUBA dived around a hundred times and never felt cold either. I have felt cold SCUBA diving in Australia even with a 7mm wet suit.

no not kidding some people react different physically and mentally to this kind of situations ,remember they where novice divers.

And i feel many of the diving community in Thailand are doing theyre very best to minimize certain things concerning this incident.......

You are correct in that different people react to the cold differently. I'm thinking of a young woman we dove with in the Philippines, wreck diving in Coron Bay. The water was a warm as toast, and my wife and I often only wore dive skins rather than bothering with a wet suit. But this young woman was wearing a full length suit, hood, and neoprene gloves, and would come out of the water shivering, with lips quite blue! We were diving Nitrox, making 90-minute bottom times, and doing 3-4 dives a day, and by the end of the week she was almost too cold to dive even before entering the water. She was a tiny woman with almost no body fat, hardly ate anything except fruit, and personally, I don't think she should have been diving in the first place because of her health. My wife is about the same height, although a bit better padded, but eats a well-rounded diet with plenty of carbs, fats, and protein. She usually just wore her dive skins...and was too warm.

As far as minimizing things about this incident... is that any worse than sensationalizing them the way the media did? Probably the reality lies somewhere between the two.

[bonobo]

Sharks? People pay a fortune to try to see sharks when they dive. As long as it's not a Great White Shark, there is little danger. Usually sharks will head the other way as soon as they hear the diver's bubbles, so all you get to see, generally, is the south end of a north-bound shark. When we dive in Palau, and drop down on "Blue Corner" dive site, we are usually in the middle of 20-50 large gray reef sharks, black tip reef sharks, and the bottom always has a handful of sleeping white-tip sharks. In the Galapagos, divers will dive deep just to swim with huge schools of hammer-head sharks. Scuba divers aren't shark food, any more than humans are bear food. Don't disturb them and they won't disturb you. (The Great White is one the four species of shark on record that will attack humans without provocation... out of over 450 different species of sharks... ) Don't fall of Hollywood Hysteria... Freddy really isn't waiting in the shadows. Neither is Jaws.

Again, not to be pedantic, but:

great white, tiger, bull, oceanic white tip, hammerhead, gray reef, lemon, mako, silky, blue blackitip reef, Galapagos, cookiecutter . . .

Some of these rarely attack unprovoked or where the water is clear, but still, they all have done so, with most having made at least some fatal attacks.

However, the fear of sharks is not too rational given the reality. Unless you were on the Indianapolis or the Nova Scotia, your chances of getting attacked, much less killed, by a shark are extremely remote.

While I appreciate your post for 'it's' accuracy, if you check these attacks you'll discover that most have been against 'surfers,' not scuba divers.

Think about food for large sharks... seals, turtles, and fish, etc. Now try and visualize what the shark sees when he's below a surfer laying on his board... arms out, legs out, and a long thin body, all in silhouette, looking just like a tasty seal. Mr. Shark swims in, takes a great big bite, "Eeeeuuuwww! This doesn't taste like a seal!" and swims off. Have you ever heard of a shark attack where the shark stayed around to finish the meal? It just doesn't happen. People (and surf boards) are not shark food. Granted, when I ask my wife to swim closer to the feeding sharks so I can get a better picture, and she gets too close, the sharks will begin to make threatening, aggressive movements, which to my wife is quick to listen, and beats a hasty retreat. To date, no shark has moved to follow her. They just continue to gobble up fish.

Surfers, people playing in the shallows, people wading in Lake Nicaragua, long distance swimmers, snorklers, but yes, I failed to note the SCUBA caveat. There was a diver, though, killed by a hammerhead in Florida 10 or 15 years ago.

One student at BUD/S, the school where SEALs are trained, was taken off Catalina during a training dive, but that was probably a great white. That was the only SEAL or UDT who has ever been recorded as being killed by a shark, and as a whole, they have logged in quite a bit of time underwater.

[Loles]

Guys, I am a diving instructor with more than 2000 dives. Every diver boat there is a tour-leader, and when he/she says "can go" the captain leaves the dive place. So this title is deceptive, cause THE TOUR-LEADER ABANDONS divers.

Second. This is not high speciality. This happaned to me around 20 times from USA to Red Sea, every where.

Third. If some-one is novice he/she has to listen double than advanced divers.

Sometimes the tourleader is a diving tourleader, and sometimes on a small boat, like this possibly was, there is no tourleader left on board.

And I have done more than 2,000 dives as a diving instructor, a big part of them here in Thai waters.

You're making the same mistake quite a few people here are making: making presumptions without knowing the full story. I'd like to know the full story, but one party is in the USA and has possibly tremendously overdone what happened, another party gave an explanation but seems to be unwilling to completely clarify.

So Steven I don't want to play "who's the smarter" but all the same the tour-leader dives or doesn't. If he dives (in TH most of time in big boat also) he allows for captain to leave the diving place when he arrives back and CHECKED the team. I meant this.

Other way you are right, I don't know all the circumstances ( I was not there), so better to avoid the judgement.

[hellodolly]

Sorry for this rather verbose tale but I think it's worth telling.

This unfortunate experience is not the first time or the last time it will happen and it happens even with the most highly qualified SCUBA divers . It's happened to me twice over the years, in 1980 and in 1982 in Papua New Guinea. However the worst case of boat gone missing in my memory was in the Celebes Islands Indonesia at Bira a small village on the south coast, south of Ujung Padang. I planned to dive off a small Island at Bira but the Indonesian dive shop there had hired out the fishing boat with Indonesian crew to six Japanese divers. The Island is a good place for drift diving when the tide is right. Accompanying them was the dive shop Indonesian diver. The Japanese divers main interest was to see sharks and there are many to see, usually about 120' or so. They all dived including the Indonesian. Their mistake as was mine, was not leaving someone on the boat to instruct the boat crew to watch out for the divers return. It seems all six got caught in a strong drift tide and came up at the other end of the island to where they entered the water. They couldn't attract the attention of the boat crew and it was getting very late in the afternoon.

They drifted grouped together in a tight circle for 3 days and two nights when the Indonesian diver Azim Bin Yakub decided to try and swim to an island some distance away. He's not sure how far it was but he made it. I spoke to him later. He said the Japs didn't want to try. If ever you've been in a similar situation distance is very hard to judge with only your head just above water and especially if its choppy and land is just a blip on the horizon. It's not al all funny I can tell you. It happened on the 11 December 1998 almost 15 years ago next month.

The following Divers were never seen again. . Mr Kacomiya Assistant Diving Instructor, Mr Matsumoto, Diving Instructor Mr. Ishijima Advance Monitor Diver, Ms Okubo Advance Monitor DIver, Mrs Yamamoto Diving Instructor, Mrs Masoko Kato Diver, Ms Kato Maho Diver.

Very surprising... So many advanced and professional divers, yet none considered ditching weights and tanks, filling BCDs, flipping onto their backs and leisurely finning to the closest land? Doesn't take that long to fin a few miles. They could always return to pick up gear later. Many California shore divers often spend an hour or two finning out to their dive sites.

Depends on the tide.

I have never been skin diving but on a boat going on a tour to see the Kamota dragons on Komoto Island they stopped out in the middle of nowhere. The tide was so strong you didn't dare get behind the boat. There was only one swimmer who managed to swim all the way around the boat and he was a dive instructor who I was traveling with for a month of touring.

[Charlie Cheap]

You are not dealing with "the sharpest knives in the draw", intelligence, education all leave alot to be desired in many countries. People just blindly expect things to be the same wherever they go, they are not, and they dont stop to think about where they are and who they are actually dealing with.If they know what they are doing, if they are trained, if they have experience? Or is it just some local driven purely by money and has no clue as to the implications of his actions and unknowingly put lives in danger.

wow.. congratulations are in order! You've made what has to be the biggest "generalization" ever!! You just made a generalzitation about the whole World - well done!! "people just blindly expect things to be the same (except you of course, you're far too smart) wherever they go" etc.. and you know this how? You've questioned "the people"? because I don't remember you asking me about it.. If you read the full article you will see the couple researched reviews about the dive company for booking, what else should they have done, o wise one?

Agree with you Alwyn. No on expects every country to be the same and everybody knows that you have to try and be wary of differences and customs. But what's that got to do with this guys behavior? We are not talking about complaining about your food in a restaurant, he abandoned the divers in the sea for goodness sake. As Alwyn said, they researched the dive company. Unless you have a crystal ball this is all you can do.

Sharpest knives in the draw or not this "captain" will know what he did was wrong, so don't point the finger at the 6 divers and suggest they were naive. The captain should be up for criminal charges, absolutely no doubt and to be honest, if it were me and I ever saw him again I would have to have to seriously restrain myself from breaking his bloody jaw.

So, get real. No excuses, it was wrong, I guess you have been living here too long which is why your post is so skewed the wrong way.

I couldn't of said it better myself!

[hellodolly]

I've just joined this forum to post a reply. I am the owner of this dive company this story is about.

Firstly I'd like to say that I can not believe that this have made international news. Please don't believe everything that you read in the american news or the daily mail for that matter.

I would like to explain myself and my company. We have a 100% safety record in our shop and pride ourselves in this.

So some of the events in the story did happen. Our boat did breakdown but at know point did our captain abandon anyone. It is not a common occurrence that our boat breaks down but he have strict set procedure in place so that if something happens all our customers are safe.

During the dive the captain was having battery problems on the boat. The customers in article insisted on seeing sharks so we went to that site. On that dive site there is no buoy lines to moor up on and we can not drop an anchor as it is a national marine park and could damage coral.

The captain is employed with us and is a good captain and he followed the procedures correctly. When he realised that he could not fix the boat he called back to our manager at the dive shop who organised another boat to collect them. We radioed another boat that we knew was in the area to go and collect the divers.

This did take a little bit time around 30 minutes in total.

The instructor who was with the customers has been diving in Thailand for over 10 years and knows the shop procedures. So knew they would be fine and was assuring the divers this.

There were shark in the water as the divers requested us to go to the shark site but the sharks in question are Black Tip Reef sharks. If you don't know your sharks they range from around 50cm-150cm and live on small reef fish. There has never been a known attack from these types of shark as they are quite timid creatures and scared of divers.

So at no time was anyone in danger of getting attacked by a shark!

When climbing onto the other boat that arrived the collect the divers unfortunately the lady in the video did slip. She hit her chin on the boat and we are very sorry about this. Our dive shop has medical insurance so we told the divers to go to the hospital to have a look at her chin and used the medical insurance through the dive shop to cover the costs.

As you can see this was not our most perfect day out diving but all my staff followed the correct procedure to ensure the safety of these divers.

We apologised to the customers and explained everything to them. They said they understood what had happen but at know point did they say they felt "abandoned at sea"

I am just guess when they got home they wanted there 5 minutes of fame. It is just unfortunate that there limelight brings such a bad name to the diving in thailand and to my shop.

Diving standard in thailand are very high compared with other part of the world and at our shop we stick to these high standard.

I can't actually believe that I have to reply and defend my shop and diving in Thailand to such a ridiculous article.

You missed something, in the original link it says "Exhausted and freezing, Lexa collapsed and split her chin open. The wound required stitches." Oh right, freezing in Thai waters with a wet suit on, amazing!! 555

I did miss that. On what did she split open her chin? Not many hard surfaces in the middle of the ocean... unless she was climbing on one of the other divers in a panic attempt to get out of the water, and hit her chin on the divers primary atop the tank. While many will castigate the boat captain, I'm more inclined to think the instructors may have failed to maintain order while waiting for pickup.

Chris in his post pointed out "When climbing onto the other boat that arrived the collect the divers unfortunately the lady in the video did slip. She hit her chin on the boat and we are very sorry about this. Our dive shop has medical insurance so we told the divers to go to the hospital to have a look at her chin and used the medical insurance through the dive shop to cover the costs."

Having watched the video I am convinced Chris is telling the truth. Even the news men came across as taking it lightly. The two people probably knew some one with the local station and he talked them into going public with it. Good for a local interest story. But only tell half of it that way it is more interesting. Standard journalistic practice the world over.