Home finance/accounts software suitable for multiple currencies

[draftvader]

I have just spent the best part of the day looking into desktop or client server accounting packages. To this point MoneyDance seems to be heading the way. Before we commit to it and spend I was looking to see what recommendations I could get from our community as it is the perfect place to ask being that many people bank in 2 currencies here with investments, savings and checking in both currencies (and often more).

We have:

UK based current accounts, savings accounts, mortgage, credit cards, ISAs and "independent" (i.e. Zopa, Funding Circle) savings and are just beginning as VERY junior investment portfolio

Thai current and savings accounts

Our wages are in the UK and Thailand so we are interested in having a system that can bank in both show our net worth in GBP.

MoneyDance seems excellent for this but I was looking for Android functionality. Mint could be good but, shockingly, they have never incorporated multi-currency account holders (at least that is what the forums say).

Looking forward to any hints, tips that people have (I don't need to know about Excel, that's where we are now). Thanks.

[Naam]

what accounting software can do more than Lotus, Excel or any other spreadsheet? even my Quattro (based on Lotus), a version from 1993 beats anything hands tied behind the back and is able to handle an infinite number of currencies.

[draftvader]

what accounting software can do more than Lotus, Excel or any other spreadsheet? even my Quattro (based on Lotus), a version from 1993 beats anything hands tied behind the back and is able to handle an infinite number of currencies.

Lurking around like a financial tiger waiting to pounce on the unexpected. Glad to hear from you but I really would rather work with somebody else's formulas. My 9 sheet spreadsheet is getting a little out of control and doesn't do enough for me.

[Naam]

expecting your question "why a 20 year old version?" here's my "preventive" answer.

-i started with "Lotus 1-2-3" in 1984,

-moved to Quattro (Borland) in 1990,

-Borland lost a court case and had to abandon 90% of the Lotus commands,

-their newer versions could not read my macros nor some complicated formulas,

i have an estimated 30,000+ manhours of formulas and macros embedded in my spreadsheet and can therefore never "upgrade". but i am still very happy how fast (under good old DOS) and efficient my antique software is doing daily an excellent job.

[Naam]

what accounting software can do more than Lotus, Excel or any other spreadsheet? even my Quattro (based on Lotus), a version from 1993 beats anything hands tied behind the back and is able to handle an infinite number of currencies.

Lurking around like a financial tiger waiting to pounce on the unexpected. Glad to hear from you but I really would rather work with somebody else's formulas. My 9 sheet spreadsheet is getting a little out of control and doesn't do enough for me.

perhaps you are a wee bit too lazy to work on it? can't help you with formulas. as mentioned above most of my handmade formulas and macros do not translate and/or are not compatible with any other software.

[draftvader]

expecting your question "why a 20 year old version?" here's my "preventive" answer.

-i started with "Lotus 1-2-3" in 1984,

-moved to Quattro (Borland) in 1990,

-Borland lost a court case and had to abandon 90% of the Lotus commands,

-their newer versions could not read my macros nor some complicated formulas,

i have an estimated 30,000+ manhours of formulas and macros embedded in my spreadsheet and can therefore never "upgrade". but i am still very happy how fast (under good old DOS) and efficient my antique software is doing daily an excellent job.

That much development time on software that doesn't have a huge amount of code built on top of previously "unfixed" code is going to be stable and reliable. More importantly, if it is working and you understand it then the time it would take you to re-train to the same level of efficiency would easily outweigh your benefits.

I develop software, I know the mistakes I make!

[draftvader]

what accounting software can do more than Lotus, Excel or any other spreadsheet? even my Quattro (based on Lotus), a version from 1993 beats anything hands tied behind the back and is able to handle an infinite number of currencies.

Lurking around like a financial tiger waiting to pounce on the unexpected. Glad to hear from you but I really would rather work with somebody else's formulas. My 9 sheet spreadsheet is getting a little out of control and doesn't do enough for me.

perhaps you are a wee bit too lazy to work on it? can't help you with formulas. as mentioned above most of my handmade formulas and macros do not translate and/or are not compatible with any other software.

Bang on. I have other things to do...like run 2 businesses and be a home Dad. Bring on the already functioning and supported software. Small price to pay for simplicity and clarity. Would just like to have a system where my wife can enter her accounts through her browser onto our home server and have our phones communicate any transactions we have logged whilst out and about. At any point we could get a simple overview of our worth and projected worth. It would certainly help keep my wife focused on the bigger picture....and not so much on shoes.....like my daughter :/

[Naam]

expecting your question "why a 20 year old version?" here's my "preventive" answer.

-i started with "Lotus 1-2-3" in 1984,

-moved to Quattro (Borland) in 1990,

-Borland lost a court case and had to abandon 90% of the Lotus commands,

-their newer versions could not read my macros nor some complicated formulas,

i have an estimated 30,000+ manhours of formulas and macros embedded in my spreadsheet and can therefore never "upgrade". but i am still very happy how fast (under good old DOS) and efficient my antique software is doing daily an excellent job.

That much development time on software that doesn't have a huge amount of code built on top of previously "unfixed" code is going to be stable and reliable. More importantly, if it is working and you understand it then the time it would take you to re-train to the same level of efficiency would easily outweigh your benefits.

I develop software, I know the mistakes I make!

right you are! my average remaining statistical life time wouldn't be long enough to regain with any other spreadsheet the level i have reached. it would be like erasing my knowledge of a language i master to zero and start from the scratch again.

[AngelsLariat]

I haven't used any other packages except for the <now discontinued> Microsoft Money, but I'm presently using Quicken and it find that it handles multiple currencies pretty well, even minor currencies. Starting with version 2013 it will automatically update exchange rates for you. Two limitations with it that I've found are that while it will value everything correctly based upon current exchange rates, it does not keep track of historical exchange rate data. The other shortcoming is that while you can specify a different currency for each account, you cannot mix currencies within a given account. That can be a limitation if (for example) you have a single brokerage account in which you are holding bonds denominated in various currencies, There are work-arounds for that issue but it's not ideal.

[sustento]

Microsoft no longer sell Money but they do a 'sunset' (free) version without support that handles multiple currencies. Don'y know if it's any use to you

http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=20738

[Chicog]

GnuCash.

Official site here

The Android client doesn't work in real time, but it is what it is for free software.

http://www.codinguser.com/2012/11/gnucash-for-android-available-from-google-play/

Edited November 18, 2013 by Chicog

[draftvader]

GnuCash.

Official site here

The Android client doesn't work in real time, but it is what it is for free software.

http://www.codinguser.com/2012/11/gnucash-for-android-available-from-google-play/

Thanks. Yes, I looked at GnuCash but felt it was a little more complicated for an accounting bludgeon like me but being that you recommend it and we have mutual tech respect I'll add it back into my list and give it a little more time.

[Naam]

Bang on. I have other things to do...like run 2 businesses and be a home Dad. Bring on the already functioning and supported software. Small price to pay for simplicity and clarity. Would just like to have a system where my wife can enter her accounts through her browser onto our home server and have our phones communicate any transactions we have logged whilst out and about. At any point we could get a simple overview of our worth and projected worth. It would certainly help keep my wife focused on the bigger picture....and not so much on shoes.....like my daughter :/

wives and financial software... squaring a circle seems to be easier. years ago i established a "light version" for her. she used it with big success for quite some time... at least a week... or perhaps a little less.

[fletchsmile]

For personal software I haven't found anything as good as I can do in Excel for what I want. All the off the basic off the shelf packages that say multi-currency get bogged down with current vs historic exchange rates and other such things I can otherwise tailor myself.

To be honest even some of the hi-tech software banks, finance and accounting firms use isn't perfect, and there are often workarounds needed for different things. So cheap off the shelf retail packages often fall even shorter.

For Naam, I think you missed some version/ conversion stages somewhere along the line I remember Excel having help for previous Lotus 123 users, and converting my macros. Also a good opportunity to rethink the way you do things. Then again if it isn't broken...

Cheers

Fletch:)

[Gsxrnz]

Don't discount MYOB. It's hardly a trendy piece of software, but it's robust and handles multiple currencies quite well. As it's a true piece of accounting software, the reporting will handle historical FX values/gains/losses. And it's an easy piece of software to drive.

[grin]

I think Naam has me beat but here's a description of my system which I have been working on for about 20 years. I use Quicken for Mac along with a bunch of external scripts.

I just use a separate Quicken data file for each currency. I run a shell script that runs a bunch of other scripts to bring all of the foreign account data into my USD data file.

I use Applescript to run Quicken to open up each of my foreign currency files and export all of the data for the previous period to QIF files. I use perl scripts to convert these to to QIF files for either brokerage accounts or money market accounts depending on the situation.

I use iMacros and Firefox to download a period's worth of exchange rates from oanda.com into csv files. I use perl scripts to convert these to QIF files which look like security price data. I use Applescript to run Quicken to import all of the brokerage account and money market account files and security price files into the USD data file.

Essentially all of the data exported from my foreign files gets imported as securities with the price being the exchange rate. I have to make up stock symbols for each foreign account for everything to work. Withdrawals and deposits just become buys and sells. I put more detail into the memo fields for each transaction to differentiate them from just withdrawals and deposits.

For example in my USD data file I have a THB brokerage account. Each of my Thai accounts from the THB data file gets converted to a particular fake stock with buys and sells for each transaction. So a particular stock in my THB brokerage account might be called BBL-Savings. So with just a look at my THB brokerage account I can see all of my THB accounts and the values in USD for any particular date.

A bit convoluted but a major step up from the double entry bookkeeping system I used for about 15 years before that which consisted of shell, sed, and awk scripts working on text files.

Grin

[Naam]

For personal software I haven't found anything as good as I can do in Excel for what I want. All the off the basic off the shelf packages that say multi-currency get bogged down with current vs historic exchange rates and other such things I can otherwise tailor myself.

To be honest even some of the hi-tech software banks, finance and accounting firms use isn't perfect, and there are often workarounds needed for different things. So cheap off the shelf retail packages often fall even shorter.

For Naam, I think you missed some version/ conversion stages somewhere along the line I remember Excel having help for previous Lotus 123 users, and converting my macros. Also a good opportunity to rethink the way you do things. Then again if it isn't broken...

Cheers

Fletch:)

i was well aware of the possible conversions Fletch and tried several of them. no problems with formulas but big problems with macros. adjusting the macros would have been possible but a herculean task and wasted days if not weeks.

but the real problem was that the Excel command language is completely different and even the commands of Lotus and Quattro drifted apart during the years. please click on the link below, read and find out how i felt during my trials with Excel:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pashto/

[Naam]

Grin,

as far as importing data i work (compared to you) like a stone age caveman shaping flintstones into cutting or killing tools. but i like my work and enjoy doing things manually.

[keeniau96]

My experience with 123, Quattro etc. has been very much like Naam. But I settled on MS Money because very good for multi-currency and different asset types/classes. Per above poster Money is now deprecated but still works fine. Note that you must have MS Internet Explorer installed for the Money installation.

[AngelsLariat]

My experience with 123, Quattro etc. has been very much like Naam. But I settled on MS Money because very good for multi-currency and different asset types/classes. Per above poster Money is now deprecated but still works fine. Note that you must have MS Internet Explorer installed for the Money installation.

I switched from MS Money to Quicken because though MS distributed a 'sunset' version of Money that should be able to run indefinitely, it sounded like at some point Money's direct connections to on-line bank would stop working. I would have stuck with MS Money otherwise.

Fortunately when Microsoft announced that they were discontinuing Money they cooperated with Intuit to help them write a converter to allow Quicken to open MSMoney files and save them into Quicken format. For me that conversion was pretty painless.

Edited November 19, 2013 by AngelsLariat

[KittenKong]

I have tried all the software mentioned.

Moneydance is the only one that does everything I need (apart from getting certain fund prices which are not listed on Google Finance or Yahoo Finance, but those prices can be entered manually).

It does handle multiple currencies fine and also makes it very easy to show movements from one account to another, be they bank or asset accounts. Share prices (with the exception of those funds I mentioned) are obtained automatically and it imports downloaded bank statement data in most common formats.

Previously I used MS Money but that stopped getting share and currency prices so I changed.

I also briefly considered spending a large part of my remaining life automating XL to do the same job, and then I came to my senses and just bought Moneydance instead.

Moneydance has an extensive free trial that should allow anyone to determine whether it is suitable or not.

[TobiasML]

I am using pocketmoney. Had apps for IPhone, iPad, android, Mac and I think windows too. You can setup home currency and use multiple currencies. I am using it with currently 3 different currencies but total is shown in THB.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cassde]

I have used Microsoft Money for my home snd business needs. It provides for multiple currencies.

[draftvader]

A big "Thank you" to everybody on here. I now realise that my utopian vision of an open source client server accounting solution focused on people with a home server is a dream. In its place I feel that there are many choices. I am not a financial genius but I am a mathematician and a web developer.

At the moment my money is on MoneyDance so I am going to run the trial and see how it fits. If it does then I'll buy it and live with it as I have found an Android app for it (3rd party but with positive reviews).

Interestingly the biggest stumbling block for many of the big names is poor (or non-existent) handling of multiple currencies. YouNeedABugdet which appears to be one of THE pieces of home accounting software just doesn't cope (but does have a lovely interface and some cool ideas if you don't have any financial control....luckily, through bad experiences, I have learned plenty of this!).

I'll keep coming back and it would be cool to keep this topic going as it SHOULD be of real concern to a LARGE number of TV members.

[MichaelJohn]

I too use MS Money and have done so since 2005.

As stated above, It's now free, and it's also/still compatible with OS, Win8 etc etc.

It handles all the currency requirements, share trading etc and despite trying all the alternatives I've never found anything else that comes near to it.

[KittenKong]

I too use MS Money and have done so since 2005.

As stated above, It's now free, and it's also/still compatible with OS, Win8 etc etc.

It handles all the currency requirements, share trading etc and despite trying all the alternatives I've never found anything else that comes near to it.

Yes, but since a few years ago it no longer gets the FX rates and shares prices automatically (at least it didn't for me). This limits it too much as far as I'm concerned.

Moneydance does get these figures automatically (but not for all fund prices).

[draftvader]

Have just discovered KMyMoney http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMyMoney

This is (obviously for certain people) a Linux system that has been successfully ported to Windows. I am now running this and MoneyDance next to each other. I will report back when I make my decision.

For the record I have installed MS Money Sunset and it is brilliant. Sadly the lack of updating is a killer blow and it needs some clever person to write a useable hack/extension/workaround to allow people to choose their favourite stock/FX site.

[draftvader]

Just thought I would report back. My initial foray into KMyMoney has been impressive. Whilst it lacks the Android app that MoneyDance has everything else about it is superior and it is free. I have just established a screen on my phone that is a notepad app to record transactions whilst I am out. OK, I have to manually input them whilst I am out but that isn't too hard really.

I'll see how I feel when I see how it guides us through Christmas when money tends to fly about too much and end up in some strange places.......

[grin]

The main reason I use credit cards is that those transactions are tracked and can be imported. I try to only use cash for items I don't care about tracking. If I have to pay cash for something I want to track I make sure I get a receipt. I use a separate account to enter all of my cash transactions and I find I have less than 5 per year on average. All of these cash transactions occur in Thailand, never in other countries.

Grin

[draftvader]

The main reason I use credit cards is that those transactions are tracked and can be imported. I try to only use cash for items I don't care about tracking. If I have to pay cash for something I want to track I make sure I get a receipt. I use a separate account to enter all of my cash transactions and I find I have less than 5 per year on average. All of these cash transactions occur in Thailand, never in other countries.

Grin

I would find that very difficult to maintain in Thailand with the lifestyle I have. Taxis, food vendors, public transport, local shops, etc really don't have the facility for credit cards. In a society that wants their money to be difficult to track to keep their tax low it is very difficult. I would estimate that 20% of my spend would be cash but nearly 70% of my transactions.

There are certain walks of life here that would support cards but mostly they don't. In the UK I would have no problems at all tracking spend as you suggest (I have contactless debit cards from the UK in my wallet).