TEFL/TESOL Courses in Chiang Mai….Which one? Work prospects?

[Oddsox]

Hi

I am 59 years old from Australia. I will be living in Chiang Mai as from the New Year. I am trying to decide on the best/most credible TEFL course available there. I have been a professional musician all my life. I completed half of a Primary Teachers Cert 40 years ago. Worked for 2 years as a Teachers Aid and taught music in Primary schools for a year, as well as performing in Childrens Theatre for a year. Had a book of Childrens songs published and a DVD of Great Barrier Reef film with 12 kids songs of mine produced. Have 10 years of Rainforest and Southern Aust. Tour Guiding and have 2000 working dives as a Scuba Instructor (and about the same number of snorkelling days) on the Great Barrier Reef. I have a Diploma of Music and Composition and a Cert IV in Training and Assessment. And obviously a vast experience in communication and instruction.

I DO NOT HAVE A DEGREE!!!

Can I get a job/work permit after the course?

I have looked at SEETEFL and CMUTEFL, both seem good……any ideas which one I should choose?? Any other ideas??

[pastafarian]

SEE

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[Loaded]

Reviews of courses offered in Thailand including Chiang Mai

http://www.teflcoursereview.com/courses/location/thailand/

[Slip]

If you want to work in the school system, you'll need that degree in order to be legal.

EDIT: Although with your background, I wonder if you may be of interest to International schools, not as a teacher per-se but some kind of specialist in the field?

Edited November 20, 2013 by Slip

[pastafarian]

I know a few people that have been granted waiver letters by the TCT without having completed a degree. In certain circumstances they look at each application individually and take into account other qualifications as well as work experience and teaching experience. This is usually only done for native English speakers though and not regularly.

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[pastafarian]

If you want to work in the school system, you'll need that degree in order to be legal.

 

EDIT: Although with your background, I wonder if you may be of interest to International schools, not as a teacher per-se but some kind of specialist in the field?

Two of my colleagues at the previous school I worked at were working legally with Non-Imm visas and work permits for 4yrs, neither had a completed degree. Not sure if they still are but that was only last year, those that say you aren't 'legal' without a degree are wrong, a valid visa and WP make you legal.

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[Scott]

A valid visa and WP do make you legal, but it is hard to get the visa and WP without a degree. Many of the teachers who managed to get into the system without a degree have been in Thailand quite a while and are able to work the system. Also some schools can get them when others can't.

It's not that it's impossible, it's just that it is not easy.

[pastafarian]

Scott, as usual, is correct as it isn't easy to become legal without a degree. But you don't have to have a degree to be legal which is what I often read on this forum and elsewhere.

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[Slip]

If you want to work in the school system, you'll need that degree in order to be legal.

EDIT: Although with your background, I wonder if you may be of interest to International schools, not as a teacher per-se but some kind of specialist in the field?

Two of my colleagues at the previous school I worked at were working legally with Non-Imm visas and work permits for 4yrs, neither had a completed degree. Not sure if they still are but that was only last year, those that say you aren't 'legal' without a degree are wrong, a valid visa and WP make you legal.

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I wasn't very clear in what I wrote, my apologies, and what you say is correct with regard to the degree not being a legal requirement. In fact with the OPs' skills he may just be able to wangle his waivers, although it seems to be getting harder and harder. The point I was making (badly) was that in the long run the degree will be required to get the documents from the TCT. The TCT have been tightening up the rules and are weeding out the people Scott refers to that have been in the system. I know of 2 non-degree holders who had been working here for years, who within the last year lost their jobs because they couldn't get the paperwork owing to not having a degree. If the OP is able to get his waivers then he will need to use the time to get a degree, because if he doesn't have one when the waivers run out, the TCT will no longer issue the required documents to get a work permit, hence making it impossible for him to work legally in the school system anymore. (In my experience).

Edited November 21, 2013 by Slip

[Oddsox]

Hmmmmm……start to wonder…..why bother to do the course?? Naturally none of the TEFL Colleges make it known that they think you are wasting your time without a degree!!!

And the joke is…….that someone comes along with a "degree" in something totally unrelated to English or ANY sort of human interaction….does the same course as me…..and THEY are more desirable as an English Teacher……when in the REAL analysis….they are not in my league!!

Sorry if I sound like a tosser……but is there no credit rating for any number of "degrees" from the "World University"????

Surely the schools are in tune enough with their needs to hire the right person for the job……and the Labour Dept will accept that……???

[Oddsox]

Hmmmmm……start to wonder…..why bother to do the course?? Naturally none of the TEFL Colleges make it known that they think you are wasting your time without a degree!!!

And the joke is…….that someone comes along with a "degree" in something totally unrelated to English or ANY sort of human interaction….does the same course as me…..and THEY are more desirable as an English Teacher……when in the REAL analysis….they are not in my league!!

Sorry if I sound like a tosser……but is there no credit rating for any number of "degrees" from the "World University"????

Surely the schools are in tune enough with their needs to hire the right person for the job……and the Labour Dept will accept that……???

Sorry…..just re-read my comments…..I DO sound like a tosser!! Let me try again.

Firstly, I applaud ANYBODY who has put in the work and sacrifice to earn a degree. And that's fine if it's related to the subject you are teaching (e.g.. Maths. Science).

But this is teaching English as a second language or foreign language, I can't see anyone with LESS than a major in English having any more credentials than anybody else, especially someone with a lifetime of teaching, instruction and communication experience. Again, I'm wondering if doing a TEFL course (no matter how good), is not just a waste of time and money…….can ANYBODY convince me otherwise???

[Scott]

Let's stick to the topic. The issue of degree vs. non-degreeed teachers as well as education degrees vs. other degrees has been discussed in numerous threads.

[Scott]

I don't think that anybody is trying to be disingenuous. The situation with regard to employment in Thailand is pretty well known. People will take a TEFL course for a variety of reasons and with varying credentials and experience. Here is a response from SEE Tefl about the employment situation:

"Normally, you need a degree to obtain a non-immigrant B (Business) visa and work permit. It may be possible if you work for a language school or government school to obtain a work permit and non-immigrant B visa without a degree, but it depends on the personal relationship between the school and their local government Immigration and Labour offices. It will be difficult to find a decent job without a degree."

"There will be many school that will want to employ you as most towns in Thailand have a foreign teacher shortage. The schools will very happily employ you. The problem is the departments of Immigration and Labour who require to see a degree."

[Oddsox]

I don't think that anybody is trying to be disingenuous. The situation with regard to employment in Thailand is pretty well known. People will take a TEFL course for a variety of reasons and with varying credentials and experience. Here is a response from SEE Tefl about the employment situation:

"Normally, you need a degree to obtain a non-immigrant B (Business) visa and work permit. It may be possible if you work for a language school or government school to obtain a work permit and non-immigrant B visa without a degree, but it depends on the personal relationship between the school and their local government Immigration and Labour offices. It will be difficult to find a decent job without a degree."

"There will be many school that will want to employ you as most towns in Thailand have a foreign teacher shortage. The schools will very happily employ you. The problem is the departments of Immigration and Labour who require to see a degree."

If the "situation with regard to employment in Thailand is pretty well known" I would not have started this post in the first place! (I think I'm sorry I did!)

To be fair to SEE Tefl, I received the above responses from them and a similar response from CMU Tefl. But none of the Tefl schools tell you this in their marketing or websites, which is the point I was making.

Once I made the enquiry and asked for an "honest" response, I was told about the need for a degree.

[Scott]

I am pretty sure that is the reason that they call it marketing.

If you have income other than teaching, you might be able to take the gamble to get a TEFL and try teaching. If you don't, then it's a very unwise move. You also need to consider that you may very well find yourself not being able to chose the area in which you live. I believe that CM is a fairly competitive location for teachers, but posters from that area might be able to give you more/better insight.

You have special skills that some schools will be interested in. Music is catching on in a lot of schools, so it's a valuable skill. I don't think the visa and work permit question can be definitively answered by anyone at this time.

[aussiestyle1983]

I know a few people that have been granted waiver letters by the TCT without having completed a degree. In certain circumstances they look at each application individually and take into account other qualifications as well as work experience and teaching experience. This is usually only done for native English speakers though and not regularly.

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A similar thing happened to me around 2006. I was able to get a WP and TL without any degree. All I had was a TEFL. Like mentioned above, it comes down to each individual application. Since then I completed 2 degrees in order to return to Thailand and teach one day should I require them but I doubt that I will. However, if I do, I plan to do the CELTA despite my past experience. A co-worker of mine just completed the CELTA in Sydney and the company who ran the course already found him a job. I woudln't do just any TEFL as there are a lot of options - go for something with a good reputation like the CELTA. Good luck!

BTW, I have a Cert IV in Training and Assessment as well as I work as a workplace trainer / assessor now. Whilst training is different to teaching, it is more similar to teaching that most other roles and I would be bring this up and use examples rather than saying you have no experience at all regarding an application / interview.

Edited December 2, 2013 by aussiestyle1983