PM Yingluck has one clear choice: step down

[Thainy Tim]

I don't think PTP would win another election with politics in its current state and solely at their hands.

Their popularity was at an all time low and the latest polls showed that the Dems would likely win the next election, since those polls the situation has got a lot worse for them.

It would not be hard for the Dems to send out the spies to video PTP vote buying in the run up to the next elections would it. Compile all this evidence and present it to the NACC and the EC and have the PTP banned.

This would put the Dems in the front seat, no need for them to be corrupt with the pay per vote. This could also make it very difficult in the future for any vote buying. It would have to be confined to vote buying indirectly via populist policies aimed at a specific voter. That one has been seen to be lies in the past with the minimum wage up to 15,000 a month for holders of bachelor's degrees that didn't happen, and the ipads that were 1000 baht Chinese androids that are all broken now (didn't they pay ipad 3 prices for those?.... more corruption). I won't even mention the rice pledging scheme.

Well if I were leader of the Dems, that is what I would be doing.

[MobileContent]

If PM Yingluck dissolved the house and calls for a snap election, PTP will win once again and build a new government with Pheu Thai, Bhumjaithai, Chartthaipattana and Chart Pattana Puea Pandin.

[WitawatWatawit]

Early next month, 109 politicians of the now-defunct People Power, Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya parties will end their five-year bans and return to the field of politics.

So they could recycle 109 who have already been done for dishonesty.

They would fit in real well.

In addition Thaksin has the 111 TRT politician who's ban ended in May 2012, that gives them an additional 210 politician to build a new cabinet with.

Sorry to be pedantic, but one of the 111 TRT politicians has died and a number of others have opted out of political life permanently. A few others, like Sansanee Nakpong (who has now quit), were welcomed back into the Thaksin fold as advisers etc, so they're already back up to speed. But essentially you are right. There could be enough experienced trough divers to form a (mal)functioning cabinet.

[Nickymaster]

If PM Yingluck dissolved the house and calls for a snap election, PTP will win once again and build a new government with Pheu Thai, Bhumjaithai, Chartthaipattana and Chart Pattana Puea Pandin.

Then nothing should be holding her back. Come on Yingluck, let's have a snap election!

[ggold]

I am confused as to why those that voted for the amendment are being impeached - does this set a precedent that where anything voted for that is later struck down by the CC would have those that voted for it banned?

Because they are deemed to have tried to alter the constitution undemocratically, and voted for an undemocratic constitution, which in itself is against the constitution, so have violated the contsitution and parliamentary proceedures in doing so. whence the moves to impeach them!

[SICHONSTEVE]

This is so unlike The Nation

I can think of another easier option which would be to not step down.

Rocket science it ain't.

Or she could wait until she is indicted and run the country from Dubai.

........as a double act, Thaksin and Yingluck best comedy act around, only it ain't funny!!

[rametindallas]

This is so unlike The Nation

I can think of another easier option which would be to not step down.

Rocket science it ain't.

I disagree - the public has sent a number of large rockets up the collective Shinawatra jacksy

The reason she can't step down is that Big Brother won't let her. And the reason for that is that he couldn't possibly contemplate putting yet another member of the family at the head.

So - Barbie it is until the bitter end

I agree. Yingluck's 'big' sister is too strong and may challenge Thaksin's authority. House dissolution would be the smart move. Thaksin would get another majority coalition and the stated reason for the protests, the 'blanket' amnesty, would be dead so the protests should end. If the new government wanted a new amnesty bill, it would have to start from scratch but now the people are wise to them. Once again, Dr. Thaksin's impatience and hubris have come to bite him on he buttocks.

[tragickingdom]

A non surprising Nation point of view. What about the fossils that call themselves judges are stepping down because they still think it is 1920 and the people cannot make their own choices about a senate. Besides Yingluck should wait to after the one million people demonstration of the Democrat party. Let's see how many people really show off. She still has a mandate for a few years. imagine when governments in non banana republic step down while they have a 2/3 majority only because a judge finds the certain passed laws in breach of the self interest of a royalist group. They simply go on. The Nation must know that every four years, the voters can elect a new government. hard to understand for a newspaper that is anti democratic and unable to grasp the voting principle.

[semaritual]

This is an article you hardly can find in the journal:

but this government is totaly incompetent, into corruption and lack of governance...where is this country ending up

Sure not able to compete with the ASEAN countries! As nearly any sector you can find in Thailand is carrying the incompetence on a golden tray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Orac]

I am confused as to why those that voted for the amendment are being impeached - does this set a precedent that where anything voted for that is later struck down by the CC would have those that voted for it banned?

Because they are deemed to have tried to alter the constitution undemocratically, and voted for an undemocratic constitution, which in itself is against the constitution, so have violated the contsitution and parliamentary proceedures in doing so. whence the moves to impeach them!

The problem with that is that the CC made their judgement after the vote - a judgement that nobody was really sure about until they made it. The precedence would be that before anything in future could be voted on in parliament it would need to be approved by the CC which would pretty much make the whole legaslative procedure grind to a halt. Any MP risking a vote either way would open himself up for impeachment should the CC at any future point rule that it was unconstitutional. Given the twilight zone of Thai politics, even voting no could open someone up to impeachment since by voting at all they would be acknowledging the bill before them.

By all means they should investigate the procedural issues involved and sanction those responsible but going after the MPs who merely voted would effectively cripple the parliamentary system.

[rametindallas]

_{One thing this government cannot afford is to lose control. The 350 billion Baht has already been borrowed and cannot be spent on projects until public forums are held, environmental impact statements and human impact statements are completed. Plodprasop is making a mockery of the public forums and they, most likely will be annulled and the impact statements make be too rudimentary to pass muster. In the meantime, the money has been spread around and there is no accountability of it as long as this government stays in control. If they lose control, there will have to be an accounting of the 350 billion and the rice scheme, et al. People will have to flee the country to avoid prison.}

[bigbamboo]

This is so unlike The Nation

I can think of another easier option which would be to not step down.

Rocket science it ain't.

I disagree - the public has sent a number of large rockets up the collective Shinawatra jacksy

The reason she can't step down is that Big Brother won't let her. And the reason for that is that he couldn't possibly contemplate putting yet another member of the family at the head.

So - Barbie it is until the bitter end

Another family member would be pushing it a bit and who's left anyway? Waoyappa isn't housetrained, Pingpongthai (spelling) is a political ingénue who would make Yingluck look like Angela Merkel and Oak couldn't even be trusted to relay dad's speeches without a crib sheet.

If KT wants to return home soon then he will need KY to smooth his passage.

[ratcatcher]

But she's fit!!!

Fit to be Thaied for sure.

[ginjag]

This is so unlike The Nation

I can think of another easier option which would be to not step down.

Rocket science it ain't.

I disagree - the public has sent a number of large rockets up the collective Shinawatra jacksy

The reason she can't step down is that Big Brother won't let her. And the reason for that is that he couldn't possibly contemplate putting yet another member of the family at the head.

So - Barbie it is until the bitter end

Another family member would be pushing it a bit and who's left anyway? Waoyappa isn't housetrained, Pingpongthai (spelling) is a political ingénue who would make Yingluck look like Angela Merkel and Oak couldn't even be trusted to relay dad's speeches without a crib sheet.

If KT wants to return home soon then he will need KY to smooth his passage.

With Barbed wire. ?????

[Ricardo]

A non surprising Nation point of view. What about the fossils that call themselves judges are stepping down because they still think it is 1920 and the people cannot make their own choices about a senate. Besides Yingluck should wait to after the one million people demonstration of the Democrat party. Let's see how many people really show off. She still has a mandate for a few years. imagine when governments in non banana republic step down while they have a 2/3 majority only because a judge finds the certain passed laws in breach of the self interest of a royalist group. They simply go on. The Nation must know that every four years, the voters can elect a new government. hard to understand for a newspaper that is anti democratic and unable to grasp the voting principle.

"She still has a mandate for a few years"

The next election must surely be by 5th July 2015, which is only nineteen-and-a-half months away, thus significantly less than two years' mandate remains.

[klauskunkel]

In this case, those who seem certain to face consequences are Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont, Parliament Vice President Nikom Wairatpanij, House secretary-general Suwichag Nakwatcharachai, all 312 MPs and senators who proposed the amendment bill, and Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who submitted it to His Majesty for endorsement.

It is rumored that the government is scrambling to create more inactive posts...maybe they will rush the approval process again (short attention span disorder)

[animatic]

I am confused as to why those that voted for the amendment are being impeached - does this set a precedent that where anything voted for that is later struck down by the CC would have those that voted for it banned?

I think it's Article 68 of the constitution that the CC said the amendment violated. However, the impeachment process was started before the CC rendered its decision on the amendment, but the Majority Whip didn't accept the the Demo's impeachment request until after the CC ruled on the amendment.

It's a game of strategy and I think the House is very nervous now...

I hope that a more sober mind can elaborate on your question....

I think this does go to the crux of the Nations argument.

The NACC is involved and if there believe there was corruption,

everyone believed involved can be essentially frozen in time and unable to act.

So if the ruling goes to investigate, and

the reading change,

voting card manipulations,

and leadership letting it go down is ALL pretty much provable easily.

So not hard for the NACC to say yes we believe something was done wrong

and padlock the current governments hands overnight.

For The Nation this actually is a rather accurate and insightful look toward a logical future.

[A1Str8]

She is going to be on the run together with her brother.

[Thaddeus]

The problem with that is that the CC made their judgement after the vote - a judgement that nobody was really sure about until they made it. The precedence would be that before anything in future could be voted on in parliament it would need to be approved by the CC which would pretty much make the whole legaslative procedure grind to a halt.

Does it mean that?

I didn't see any message from the CC that every proposal had to go through them first.

But what I did see was a clear message that members of the HoR should only propose Bills that were beneficial to the majority of the population, not just the few, or the one.

[rixalex]

The Nation must know that every four years, the voters can elect a new government. hard to understand for a newspaper that is anti democratic and unable to grasp the voting principle.

Says the man who has spent the last however many years defending the reds for what happened in 2009 and 2010, which all centred around the reds' demands that elections take place immediately. Don't ever recall you lamenting the reds lack of grasp of the voting principle.

[animatic]

The problem with that is that the CC made their judgement after the vote - a judgement that nobody was really sure about until they made it. The precedence would be that before anything in future could be voted on in parliament it would need to be approved by the CC which would pretty much make the whole legaslative procedure grind to a halt.

Does it mean that?

I didn't see any message from the CC that every proposal had to go through them first.

But what I did see was a clear message that members of the HoR should only propose Bills that were beneficial to the majority of the population, not just the few, or the one.

The point is the CONSTITUTION laid out rules for doing this,

and the Parliamentary leadership by

not following the rules correctly,

or blithely ignoring them,

or was just too stupid to understand them,

have broken them and the CC called them on it.

And Madam the PM handed over a improperly done law to the palace,

and so she is also now responsible, as first minister, to make sure

things are done to constitutional standards. She didn't.

Now the NACC can have a say whether it is suspected corruption in the rule breaking, by leadership and parliamentarians, was part of the reason things were done extra-constitutionally. If the NACC find reasons to investigate further, which seems logical considering what is publicly know even to farangs, the PTP government leadership and much of the 310 MPs of the ruling body will get' frozen out of functioning' till the NACC rules definitively, and hands, or doesn't hand, indictments to the Attorney General.

Edited November 22, 2013 by animatic

[Old Man River]

actually it's all about timing. Puea Thai can call a snap poll any time they want and still likely win. Right now is the wrong time, the farmers aren't getting their paddy pledge, Yingluck's popularity is at an all time low, and they need to survive long enough to get start writing out the 2 trillion cheque. Don't forget, almost everything they've done has been aimed at winning an even bigger majority at the next election and burying the opposition, plus getting their men into various agencies, panels, courts. Hasn't quite worked out for them. The senate bill was killed because PT were rushing it through ahead of next March senate elections. Dems are putting on the pressure because they may never have a better chance of stealing PT voters away.

I agree, it is all about timing.

Suthep needs to step back. There was virtually no support for his call for a general strike. The Amnesty Bill has been shot down and now he is asking hundreds of thousands of people (a million?), comfortable in their lifestyles, to jump into the street for a prolonged demonstration.

Regardless, the PM won't step down and a house dissolution will ultimately lead back to where we are now.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The Nation must know that every four years, the voters can elect a new government. hard to understand for a newspaper that is anti democratic and unable to grasp the voting principle.

Says the man who has spent the last however many years defending the reds for what happened in 2009 and 2010, which all centred around the reds' demands that elections take place immediately. Don't ever recall you lamenting the reds lack of grasp of the voting principle.

You haven't taken into account his selective memory and the fact that it has the time span of a goldfish!!!

[bigbamboo]

She is going to be on the run together with her brother.

Can't see it myself.

He loves golf, she loves shopping. It'll never work.

[Thait Spot]

One of the problems Yingluck faces is that her caddy has a bag full of spanners and cricket bats

[prvtdetdave]

Again I had a lengthy comment, but to sum it all up "rubbish".

Who cares?

[ggold]

I am confused as to why those that voted for the amendment are being impeached - does this set a precedent that where anything voted for that is later struck down by the CC would have those that voted for it banned?

Because they are deemed to have tried to alter the constitution undemocratically, and voted for an undemocratic constitution, which in itself is against the constitution, so have violated the contsitution and parliamentary proceedures in doing so. whence the moves to impeach them!

The problem with that is that the CC made their judgement after the vote - a judgement that nobody was really sure about until they made it. The precedence would be that before anything in future could be voted on in parliament it would need to be approved by the CC which would pretty much make the whole legaslative procedure grind to a halt. Any MP risking a vote either way would open himself up for impeachment should the CC at any future point rule that it was unconstitutional. Given the twilight zone of Thai politics, even voting no could open someone up to impeachment since by voting at all they would be acknowledging the bill before them.

By all means they should investigate the procedural issues involved and sanction those responsible but going after the MPs who merely voted would effectively cripple the parliamentary system.

wrong, The point is the constitutional court oversees the work of parliament, making sure that processes are carried out in a legal framework. the only precedence is that the party in power assume they have the right to change the constitution without seeking a concensus from all parties sitting in Parliament. Without a referendum of the people they claim to represent, and without any checks and ballances to make sure that corruption or dictatorship etc are not seized by nepotistic tyrants who's declared aim is not democracy!

[waza]

This is so unlike The Nation

I can think of another easier option which would be to not step down.

Rocket science it ain't.

I disagree - the public has sent a number of large rockets up the collective Shinawatra jacksy

The reason she can't step down is that Big Brother won't let her. And the reason for that is that he couldn't possibly contemplate putting yet another member of the family at the head.

So - Barbie it is until the bitter end

Another family member would be pushing it a bit and who's left anyway? Waoyappa isn't housetrained, Pingpongthai (spelling) is a political ingénue who would make Yingluck look like Angela Merkel and Oak couldn't even be trusted to relay dad's speeches without a crib sheet.

If KT wants to return home soon then he will need KY to smooth his passage.

I agree KT will need KY to lubricate his passage, or else his insertion will cause friction and he may need to withdraw prematurely.

Edited November 22, 2013 by waza

[boomerangutang]

I don't think PTP would win another election with politics in its current state and solely at their hands.

I do. As long as Deep Pockets keeps making the dummies from Issan believe they'll all get rich, he will get his people in to the power seats. The main reason the Shinawatres maintain power, is their ability to get the masses to believe that they (the Issan rice farmers, shopkeepers, unemployed, et al) will get more money than they would with others in office. It's all about money.

Whenever a new election comes along, the PT (or whatever their name will be then) will have a bazillion pictures of Thaksin printed up, and they'll think up a few slogans which make the sheeple think they'll get more money - and voila! - they'll get a majority again, and again walk all over the Thai people.

[boomerangutang]

This is so unlike The Nation

I can think of another easier option which would be to not step down.

Rocket science it ain't.

I disagree - the public has sent a number of large rockets up the collective Shinawatra jacksy

The reason she can't step down is that Big Brother won't let her. And the reason for that is that he couldn't possibly contemplate putting yet another member of the family at the head.

So - Barbie it is until the bitter end

Another family member would be pushing it a bit and who's left anyway? Waoyappa isn't housetrained, Pingpongthai (spelling) is a political ingénue who would make Yingluck look like Angela Merkel and Oak couldn't even be trusted to relay dad's speeches without a crib sheet.

If KT wants to return home soon then he will need KY to smooth his passage.

I agree KT will need KY to lubricate his passage, or else his insertion will cause friction and he may need to withdraw prematurely.

Will he have to choose which orifice to shaft? Or leave his options open? Will there be a bonus prize?