Two trillion baht bill likely to be killed by charter court

[webfact]

Two trillion baht bill likely to be killed by charter court



BANGKOK: -- Former energy minister Piyaswasdi Amranand believes the two trillion baht borrowing bill will be shot down by the Constitution Court.

Speaking at a seminar Thursday, he said that the current political conflicts stemmed from the government’s attempts to ram blanket amnesty bill, the draft constitutional amendment and the two trillion baht borrowing bill through the parliament in a hush-hush manner.

The government wants to implement the infrastructure mega projects which include high-speed trains and dual-track rails with off-budget fund in order to bypass parliamentary scrutiny.

Piyaswasdi said that in the past mega projects were funded by budgetary allocations but the projects have to be transparent and with details. There is no need for the government to use special method to implement the mega projects which will bypass scrutiny, he added.

He suggested the government to rethink the Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed train project and to refocus on dual-track rail project. The fund needed for the high-speed train project can buy up to 330 planes and the air fares will be cheaper than the high-speed train fares, he said.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/two-trillion-baht-bill-likely-killed-charter-court/

-- Thai PBS 2013-11-22

[webfact]

40 senators seek review of Bt2-trillion loan bill
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Group-of-40 Senators yesterday submitted a petition to the Constitutional Court seeking a judicial review on whether or not the government's Bt2-trillion loan bill violates the charter.

The group alleges that the bill - which cleared the final reading in the Senate a little before 3am on Wednesday - was in violation of the charter's Article 170 as it allows the government to spend the borrowed money without having to submit the plan to the Finance Ministry first.

Senators Kamnoon Sidhisamarn, Paiboon Nititawan and Rosana Tositrakul are part of the group.

Democrat MPs have also submitted a similar petition via parliamentary president Somsak Kiatsuranont. They also submitted evidence showing a Pheu Thai MP allegedly using his colleague's identification card to vote.


-- The Nation 2013-11-22

[Thait Spot]

Kleptomania on its grandest scale

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[noikrit]

Now!! where are we gonna get the money to pay them Farmers???? Oh well .... maybe I'll go shopping and wait for the phone call

[NeverSure]

We doesn't want no screw-teny of our screw-teamoney.

[Ricardo]

Junking the High-Speed Passenger-Train network, spending funds on-budget to accelerate the already-underway dual-tracking of the SRT's lines, and letting the Chinese build whatever freight-line they want (and are willing to pay for) as part of their China-Singapore route, does indeed appear to make much more sense.

Looking at the latter, to see where slight-additions can mean it also carry any Thai needs, for local (within Thailand) freight or passenger-traffic, might help the economics, but that's mainly a concern for the Chinese, who are the ones who want the project (and should pay for it), to speed their exports to the port-hub of Singapore.

And the Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed passenger-line proposed by PM-Yingluck's government, which anyway would only run as far as Uttaradit unless a very-rich shining-knight private-investor emerges, is a particular white-elephant vanity-project IMO, when GDP-growth is down to 1%-or-less the country just can't afford this sort of thing ! The network will be a 50-year mill-stone round the Thai peoples' necks, unless a convincing economic-case can be made for it, which we've not yet seen ?

And why the over-riding need to finance it off-budget ? Doesn't exactly smell of fiscal rectitude, does It ?

Let's hope that wiser more-cautious minds prevail.

.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Ricardo

[Local Drunk]

If the bill is killed by the C.C... I will say, "Thanks you two trillion times"

[JRSoul]

"The fund needed for the high-speed train project can buy up to 330 planes and the air fares will be cheaper than the high-speed train fares, he said."

They would also go to far more places. Strangely enough, airlines already service regional airports, but haven't seen the need to hugely increase the number of flights, probably because there isn't the demand.

OTOH look how many people are crammed into 3rd class carriages on a 5th class railway service with speeds little over walking pace and all too regular derailments..

[Sunisalom]

"The fund needed for the high-speed train project can buy up to 330 planes and the air fares will be cheaper than the high-speed train fares, he said."

They would also go to far more places. Strangely enough, airlines already service regional airports, but haven't seen the need to hugely increase the number of flights, probably because there isn't the demand.

OTOH look how many people are crammed into 3rd class carriages on a 5th class railway service with speeds little over walking pace and all too regular derailments..

There is a demand, but because of the low numbers of flights, primarily upto four a day for most regional airports of note, the costs are too high to be available to Joe average. Creating shuttle services on hourly bases would fill seats, as the costs would likely match or better the Nokchaiair type of coach services which are becoming evermore affordable and popular.

-mel.

[PeterSmiles]

He suggested the government to rethink the Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed train project and to refocus on dual-track rail project.

There are no doubts that a decent rail connection between major cities is a priority, if only for heavy transports, but also for passenger transport. Not everyone feels comfortable in an airplane and road transportation is slow and more dangerous.

The issue is that too much of the money will disappear. I notice the new drainage they are currently installing along highway 7 between Chonburi and Pattaya, and if you take a look at that job you will notice that the drainage will never be functional. However I have no doubt that a enormous budget was approved for it.

Of course the contractors have no other choice since they receive only a fraction of what is needed to perform a decent job, while the other part will buy some people a few Benz and Bentley's.

Edited November 22, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[ezzra]

Duel tracks, high speed trains... I would prefer to start with a single track normal speed train that

actually get to it's destination, reliable, affordable and on time and without getting derailed, stuck,

or simply no go train on any super duper futuristic mega money pit...

[Neilly]

There is no need for the government to use special method to implement the mega projects which will bypass scrutiny, he added.

Oh yes there is...easier access to the trough

[Brevity]

The people I was talking to last night seem to really hate the Shinawatras and really believe that the 2 trillion baht loan is their attempt to "financially rape" Thailand one last time before abandoning the country. That's why they've tried to push through a situation where there won't be much or any accountability about how it is spent. I thought what they said was pretty wild and extreme.

[robblok]

The people I was talking to last night seem to really hate the Shinawatras and really believe that the 2 trillion baht loan is their attempt to "financially rape" Thailand one last time before abandoning the country. That's why they've tried to push through a situation where there won't be much or any accountability about how it is spent. I thought what they said was pretty wild and extreme. 

I m sure they want to have no checks and no accountability as this is a great opportunity for Mr T and the reds to rape Thailand and future generations of Thais financially.

The Democrats might not be clean and i hope that every corrupt official Democrat or PTP gets punished but even so they never dis it at this scale.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

My personal view is get a rail service similar to UK, semi-high speed-dual track example-2 and a half hours to BKK from Udon Thani. used to be 125 service. saving a trillion.

if people want a quicker service they will fly, but this system gives the service near equal to a flight given check in and luggage collection.

The biggest problem would be the road crossings (safety-foolproof) and I meant FOOL proof.

Get on at Udon with luggage 8am-arrive latest 11 am. flight Udon check in 7am flight 8am-arrive BKK 9am out of airport 10 am.

difference 1 hour. You would certainly get many fly customers on to rail, and you can carry as much luggage as poss.

[webfact]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans
By English News



BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-11-22

[ginjag]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-11-22

Another NEAR win I hope. Government get the money privately to improve infrastructure, through normal budget means. it should then be easily scrutinized.

[Nickymaster]

The people I was talking to last night seem to really hate the Shinawatras and really believe that the 2 trillion baht loan is their attempt to "financially rape" Thailand one last time before abandoning the country. That's why they've tried to push through a situation where there won't be much or any accountability about how it is spent. I thought what they said was pretty wild and extreme.

I have heard this a lot too lately. It seems that Thaksin is angry at Thailand and therefor want to destroy it.

[Nickymaster]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-11-22

USD 62 BILLION (62,000,000,000) not million!

Edited November 22, 2013 by Nickymaster

[ratcatcher]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-11-22

USD 62 BILLION (62,000,000,000) not million!

What's a few zeros among friends eh?

[IMA_FARANG]

This bill is the real thing the government wants.

All the rest is just trimmings ... the corruption and graft they will get from two trillion baht is what they are looking for.

Even if on;y 10% of two trillion baht is somehow "wasted" it will by a lot of Bentleys and Mercedes won't it.

[johnmcc6]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-11-22

Another NEAR win I hope. Government get the money privately to improve infrastructure, through normal budget means. it should then be easily scrutinized.

There is no way a high speed train would ever recover the cost to build and maintain. There are simply not enough people to use it. The poor would never get the money for a ticket and many others would still prefer to fly. I too have heard well placed Thai's who say they want to rape the country while they can if they get their hands on 2 trillion baht. Do any of these people have any idea of just how much money that is??

[bigbamboo]

That's made my day. There is intelligent life in Thai politics after all.

[casindonet]

Now!!  where are we gonna get the money to pay them Farmers????      Oh well .... maybe I'll go shopping and wait for the phone call

500 baht from all the incoming tourist?

Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[davejonesbkk]

how much is this in USD? My calculator wont go past nine zeros and I cant be bothered to think of another way to covert it

[ginjag]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-11-22

Another NEAR win I hope. Government get the money privately to improve infrastructure, through normal budget means. it should then be easily scrutinized.

There is no way a high speed train would ever recover the cost to build and maintain. There are simply not enough people to use it. The poor would never get the money for a ticket and many others would still prefer to fly. I too have heard well placed Thai's who say they want to rape the country while they can if they get their hands on 2 trillion baht. Do any of these people have any idea of just how much money that is??

I suggested middle for diddle -----fast-UK style

In the UK recently I got a return ticket London-to the north, 200 miles in one hour 40 mins for 24 pound(1,200 bht ) RETURN book in advance.

There would be enough people to use this style than the High speed you and the government are planning. see my other post-to compare flight and rail here (times) fill these trains and at lower cost than BUS, one third of Bus time.

NOT this Chinese high speed --never---even Japanese bullet NoNo.....British 125 or 150 series style adequate for here for 20 years, then you would have wide gauge track in place to update later..

[Local Drunk]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-11-22

Another NEAR win I hope. Government get the money privately to improve infrastructure, through normal budget means. it should then be easily scrutinized.

There is no way a high speed train would ever recover the cost to build and maintain. There are simply not enough people to use it. The poor would never get the money for a ticket and many others would still prefer to fly. I too have heard well placed Thai's who say they want to rape the country while they can if they get their hands on 2 trillion baht. Do any of these people have any idea of just how much money that is??

"Do any of these people have any idea of just how much money that is?"

No, and this bill will never get one kid out of the rice fields or give them an education to compete with their ASEAN counterparts. I'd say that most of the North East that has been the backbone of Thaksin can't even numerically write out two trillion much less comprehend the amount.

​

Edited November 22, 2013 by Local Drunk

[Brevity]

Lawmakers oppose passage of bill for Bt2 trillion loans

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – A group of senators and MPs have sought the Constitution Court’s ruling on the legality of the parliamentary passage of a bill to borrow Bt2 trillion (about US$62 million) for infrastructure development.

A letter, endorsed by 55 senators and 11 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Constitution Court through Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont yesterday.

The lawmakers said the government-sponsored bill was a breach of Sections 169 and 170 of the Constitution, reasoning that the Finance Ministry was not empowered to allocate spending without going through the national budget system.

The lawmakers asked the court to nullify the bill but no legal action was sought against legislators who passed the bill. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-11-22

USD 62 BILLION (62,000,000,000) not million!

Your correction is right. But 62 million is probably the real amount that will be used for improvements. Maybe it is the news writers way of warning people. It looks like a typo error but it it?

[tzthib]

The issue here is not the merits of the infrastructure bill, but the fact that the Constitutional Court is being asked, time and time again, to make policy. I find it quite ironic that a political party dubbed "The Democracts" would attempt to legislate not through a majority in Parliament brought about by actual elections but through the courts. I suppose it is to be expected. The Democrats apparently feel no need to compete in national elections so therefore they have no choice but to use the courts.

[whybother]

The issue here is not the merits of the infrastructure bill, but the fact that the Constitutional Court is being asked, time and time again, to make policy. I find it quite ironic that a political party dubbed "The Democracts" would attempt to legislate not through a majority in Parliament brought about by actual elections but through the courts. I suppose it is to be expected. The Democrats apparently feel no need to compete in national elections so therefore they have no choice but to use the courts.

The courts are being asked whether legislation is legal. Just because PTP have a majority in parliament, doesn't mean they can pass laws illegally.