World powers reach deal with Iran on nuclear program

[Jay Sata]

The US has discovered the voters don't want to waste money on a string of military adventures they never win. Russia failed in Afghanistan but the US/UK waded in and will leaves as losers.

The left and centre of the Israeli population have never favoured the hard right politics of Sharon and Netenyahu.

Iran inspection should be a precursor to Israel opening up their complex in the Negav desert.

There has been an ongoing debate in Israel over nuclear weapons policy, prompted by the June 2000 publication in Hebrew in Israel of Avner Cohen's book Israel and the Bomb. Israel is by now the only nuclear weapons state that does not acknowledge the fact that it possesses nuclear weapons.http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/dimona_pir.html

[folium]

...

Let's see how it plays out.

Yes.

Lets.

And from our collective armchairs or La-z-boys that's really all we can do...

[Jingthing]

...

Iran inspection should be a precursor to Israel opening up their complex in the Negav desert.

Might as well call of the deal then. That ain't going to happen. Nice try to make this news story about Israel though rather than about Iran which ... oh yeah ... has repeatedly threatened to destroy the one and only Jewish state in the world.

[lemoncake]

Iran has not invaded another country for over 150 years. Iran has no desire or need to invade another country.

Iran is sitting on top of huge oil reserves.

Israel has a history of waged war and invaded neighbouring countries. Israel has no oil and limited water.

Israel is the only country in the region to have atomic weapons.

Why would Iran have any interest in attacking Israel?

If they want to isolate Israel it can be done with an economic alliance of pro Arab neighbours.

Cut of Israel's oil and they'd be finished

Iran invaded 2 countries already by proxy. Lebanon and Syria .

Israel has found its own oil reserves

[folium]

Iran has not invaded another country for over 150 years. Iran has no desire or need to invade another country.

Iran is sitting on top of huge oil reserves.

Israel has a history of waged war and invaded neighbouring countries. Israel has no oil and limited water.

Israel is the only country in the region to have atomic weapons.

Why would Iran have any interest in attacking Israel?

If they want to isolate Israel it can be done with an economic alliance of pro Arab neighbours.

Cut of Israel's oil and they'd be finished

Iran invaded 2 countries already by proxy. Lebanon and Syria .

Israel has found its own oil reserves

Givot Olam claims to have found commercially viable quantities of oil in the West Bank but its status, both economic and political, is somewhat unclear to put it mildly. The Leviathan and Tamar offshore fields are natural gas.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2013/11/14/Lure-of-Israels-gas-may-dampen-Turkish-ire/UPI-81971384460006/

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. I apologize for having to delete some of the replies which were informative and well thought out responses, unfortunately, they were responding to deleted posts.

Please stay on the topic.

[midas]

So Israel might go it alone regarding an attack on Iran ……………….

but I dont understand because i thought the justification for the world turning a blind eye to any standards regarding Israel's own nuclear arsenal was that they were always the good guys?

But if despite this new deal they go ahead and launch an attack on another country against the wishes of the international community (and even many people within their own community) how could anyone describe that as being the action of good guys?

Edited November 25, 2013 by midas

[Ulysses G.]

Iran has stated its intention to destroy them repeatedly. They have always maintained the right of self defense. They have no obligation to honor a weak deal that they did not participate in that sells them out;

[Scott]

This will be the final reminder to stay on-topic. The thread is about Iran's nuclear program and the deal that was reached. If you wish to have a more comprehensive discussion that you will have to take it elsewhere, such as Outside the Box.

[Jingthing]

About the deal:

The Iranian nuclear deal struck Saturday night is a triumph. It contains nothing that any American, Israeli, or Arab skeptic could reasonably protest. Had George W. Bush negotiated this deal, Republicans would be hailing his diplomatic prowess, and rightly so.

​A few weeks ago, a “senior administration official” outlined the agreement that President Obama hoped to achieve in Geneva. Some reporters who heard the briefing (including me) thought that the terms were way too one-sided, that the Iranians would never accept them. Here’s the thing: The deal just signed by Iran and the P5+1 nations (the United States, Britain, France, Russia, and China plus Germany) is precisely the hoped-for deal laid out at that briefing.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2013/11/_iran_nukes_this_is_exactly_the_deal_that_obama_hoped_to_achieve_in_geneva.html

[shariq607]

Israel does not have the bandwidth for a full on war with Iran nor do they have the technology to effectively crush Iran's nuclear program. They are right to feel threatened but a lot of the talk of acting without the USA is a show. Even the USA would be very challenged with a full on war with Iran. In the long run it is in Israel's interest for a global accommodation with Iran IF it is possible, which is far from certain.

Israel does have the ability. It has the last generation US bunker buster which is guided with pinpoint accuracy and you know that Israel knows where those bunkers are. They can hit the same spot with more than one bomb and at the least deny access to the bunkers by severely caving in entrances, air vents, etc.

Iran has repeatedly threatened to "blow Israel off the map" and Israel believes them. I can't see Israel allowing Iran to have the bomb.

Israel would overfly Saudi Arabia, use mid-air refueling, and hit hard, fast, and continuously in an attempt to neutralize Iran. Israel has US equipment and Iran's is Soviet. 555

If Israel found itself losing, it has nukes and ICBM's. Because it now perceives itself as again standing all alone in the world, then if it has to go it alone it will. It won't pull any punches.

It's possible that this latest deal with Iran which Israel hates, guaranteed war rather than peace. Israel has repeatedly promised that it won't let Iran get the bomb.

Let's see how it plays out.

If Israel wanted to attack Iranian nuclear facilities it would have done it already without threatening them publicity like it did with Iraq and Syria secretly. Israel just bluffs about iran . deep down it knows it does not have the capability that's why threatening Iran publicly on daily basis. for bunker buster missiles to work you need to take them inside deep Iran where most of the nuclear facilities are buried and how are they going to counter Iranian air defenses? They brought down one of the most stealthiest drone in the world rq 170. Even the US military general once said Iran has the best and the most modern army in the region. Edited November 25, 2013 by shariq607

[lemoncake]

I have serious doubts Iran will stop to seek dominance in the region and have serious doubts it will stick by agreement.

Standby and see what develops, though i can foresee another crisis coming up

[NeverSure]

Israel does not have the bandwidth for a full on war with Iran nor do they have the technology to effectively crush Iran's nuclear program. They are right to feel threatened but a lot of the talk of acting without the USA is a show. Even the USA would be very challenged with a full on war with Iran. In the long run it is in Israel's interest for a global accommodation with Iran IF it is possible, which is far from certain.

Israel does have the ability. It has the last generation US bunker buster which is guided with pinpoint accuracy and you know that Israel knows where those bunkers are. They can hit the same spot with more than one bomb and at the least deny access to the bunkers by severely caving in entrances, air vents, etc.

Iran has repeatedly threatened to "blow Israel off the map" and Israel believes them. I can't see Israel allowing Iran to have the bomb.

Israel would overfly Saudi Arabia, use mid-air refueling, and hit hard, fast, and continuously in an attempt to neutralize Iran. Israel has US equipment and Iran's is Soviet. 555

If Israel found itself losing, it has nukes and ICBM's. Because it now perceives itself as again standing all alone in the world, then if it has to go it alone it will. It won't pull any punches.

It's possible that this latest deal with Iran which Israel hates, guaranteed war rather than peace. Israel has repeatedly promised that it won't let Iran get the bomb.

Let's see how it plays out.

If Israel wanted to attack Iranian nuclear facilities it would have done it already without threatening them publicity like it did with Iraq and Syria secretly. Israel just bluffs about iran . deep down it knows it does not have the capability that's why threatening Iran publicly on daily basis. for bunker buster missiles to work you need to take them inside deep Iran where most of the nuclear facilities are buried and how are they going to counter Iranian air defenses? They brought down one of the most stealthiest drone in the world rq 170. Even the US military general once said Iran has the best and the most modern army in the region.

I can't answer you. We've been asked to stay on topic.

I don't expect Iran to get the bomb. If they want war instead of peace through international negotiation, they have Soviet crap for equipment. I personally believe this is one of the reasons they agreed to a deal. They are afraid of war from anywhere.

When they shot something down, they weren't being shot at with even more advanced equipment. Nuff said.

Saudi Arabi has already installed the hardware for ICBMs, pointed at Iran. A lot of countries don't want Iran to get the bomb.

I believe Iran agreed to this negotiation out of fear. Let's see where it stands at its 6 month appointed time, when the world gauges Iran's true cooperation.

Peace.

Edited November 25, 2013 by NeverSure

[Jingthing]

It's an easy out deal. It might help. If not, there is always the military option.

[Publicus]

Page 2 of this thread is a hellovalot better than Page 1.

Prez Obama cinched this effective deal by shutting off Iran from access to US dollars some six moths ago. So it didn't take long for Iran to buckle substantially and in significant ways.

The effective action by the United States was efficacious because the 5+1 governments involved in the negotiations enforced the cutoff of US dollars to Iran on both themselves an on their trade and investment partners. The usual ways around such things were literally closed to Iran's government and economy.

The long and the short of it is that Iran still can be manipulated, maneuvered, directly impacted. As long as that remains the reality, Iran's nuclear ambitions can be thwarted and checked.

A nuclear Iran is a direct threat to Europe, the United States, Western civilization and to the entire Middle East.

Precluding Iran getting the bomb is a necessity. Doing so is a tough and disciplined process with little or no room for misjudgement or error on the part of the 5+1 governments and their intelligence services in particular.

This is a good start.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

Now if we can just get the rest of the world to destroy their nuclear arsenals, starting with Pakistan and N.Korea - and including all nuke weapon owning countries.

Nuclear bombs are to the world, what a loaded pistol is, laying on a table in a house with 45 small children running around: A major problem waiting to happen.

[boomerangutang]

It costs the US 1 million dollars per week to keep its nuclear arsenal intact. Additionally, the US is quietly paying the Russians big money for them to try to keep their nukes from getting in the wrong hands. In every way possible, nukes are bad. They're like smallpox or polio or mustard gas, they just shouldn't exist, period.

[Ulysses G.]

Even the US military general once said Iran has the best and the most modern army in the region.

If a general said that, he must have been drunk. Iran does not even come close to the best army in the Middle East. That is why they are so desperate to get nukes.

[shariq607]

Now if we can just get the rest of the world to destroy their nuclear arsenals, starting with Pakistan and N.Korea - and including all nuke weapon owning countries.

Nuclear bombs are to the world, what a loaded pistol is, laying on a table in a house with 45 small children running around: A major problem waiting to happen.

You are right but we should first start elimination of nukes with super powers such as us, Russia and China which would set examples and role model for smaller nuclear countries and result in ultimate human goal of nuke free world. Superpowers can't just tell other countries to dismantle their nuke industry without them the super power doing the same.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. This thread is not about Israel.

[Morch]

The Obama administration then informed the other five nations negotiating alongside the U.S. — Britain, China, France, Germany and Russia. And since then much of their public diplomacy with Iran has focused on incorporating and formalizing the progress made in the private U.S.-Iranian talks.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/secret-us-iran-talks-set-stage-nuke-deal-20993537

There was some talk about how hasty the current rounds of negotiations were, this might explain things.

[Ulysses G.]

Not Iran. Iran's illegal nuclear weapons program.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[shariq607]

Not Iran. Iran's illegal nuclear weapons program.

Don't make assumptions, have you even read the latest IAEA report? There is no evidence that Iran is developing nukes.only warmongers like you live in fantasy.

[Ulysses G.]

Iran is developing the capability for nuclear weapons.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Berkshire]

All they have done is save face for 6 months and delayed the inevitable disaster , Iran makes a bomb and leases it out to Shia groups , israel is attacked and so is Sunnis ,saudi the Emirates ,europe and USA ,israel retaliates or takes pre emptive action ... it does not bear thinking about ,,,

the politicians are playing with fire literally .

Standard Israel talking points....but completely understandable. Any comments from US Republicans would be typical anti-Obama rhetoric, so I don't listen to that noise. The point is the US cannot let Israel or anyone else dictate American foreign policy. Maybe the new Iranian PM can be trusted, or maybe not. At least the Obama Administration is doing SOMETHING. The Iranian economy has been in the dumps for years, so at least give those common citizens a chance. Lastly, anyone noticed the price of oil going down? Well there's a little bit of good news.

[shariq607]

Iranian nuclear program agreement was a victory for us peace lovers who prefer diplomacy and a defeat for the warmongers.

[Jingthing]

Iranian nuclear program agreement was a victory for us peace lovers who prefer diplomacy and a defeat for the warmongers.

It appears to be a positive first step but suggest don't get carried away as yet. Not exactly time to be dancing in the streets ...

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[Steely Dan]

There isn't actually a deal, just a list of ideas without even a timetable to implement them. Only if and when a timetable is agreed does the six month clock on Iranian compliance begin, though this has not stopped Iranian assets being unfrozen, meanwhile the centrifuges still spin now enriching Uranium to 5% as oppose to the 3.5% hitherto admitted to. There is no mention either of inspections at Iran's weapons testing facility at Parchin. Little wonder Canada has severe doubts.

All in all this non deal was a shabby sellout making war much more likely, but by then I guess the potus will be practicing extricating himself from golf course bunkers, accompanied as always by his faithful Portuguese water dog.

John Bolton is correct, this is an act of abject surrender by the most incompetent deceitful president ever to disgrace the Oval office.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/abject-surrender-united-states_768140.html

and there's more.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2866159793001/amb-bolton-exposes-flaws-in-nuclear-agreement-with-iran/

Edited November 26, 2013 by Steely Dan