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Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes


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As did the Stuarts!

I'm trying to think of the last English King of England.

Harold II, wasn't it?

I believe it was Richard III and he's been slagged of by everyone to be a right turd.

Was it the English Stanley's that was his demise. Old English saying, never trust a Stanley............whistling.gif

An English Stanley!....Surely not.

Another pretend English...... trojan horse!

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As to your point - they Scots have had exactly the same amount of time to vote for a government as the rest of the UK have. -

yes and they in many years NEVER EVER voted for the Uk government long before 1997..

Under Labour Scotland suffered so much that people were put out of work in England to give jobs to Scots in Scotland,,,

,really that is the first time ever i have heard that one and just a complete fabrication.

​Under Tory rule (which now and before Scotland has never voted how did the Scots prosper.or how did they suffer

pure and simple Scots should be ruled and i do use the word rule by Scots ,,,,

don't think the Scottish people wont hang them out to dry when the time comes but it will be a Scottish decision to hang their own .

aye a man o independent mind

Scottish electorate have had the same voting rights as everyone else (indeed actually they got a bit more as they had new constituencies created under Labour - even though much bigger and more populated areas like Isle of Wight was not split (as it was a Conservative area of course). They get the added benefit of having a devolved parliament that England does not have. I cannot understand why you seem to thing Scottish voters did not get the government they voted for - or do you mean because Scotland, being the only place to do well from so many years of New Labour, voted Labour across most constituencies and the rest of the country voted them out wholesale and justifiably, that they did not get the government they want. If so, that is not a point at all - it is true of every constituency in the UK right now, it being a coalition government and all!

Following any election there are constituencies, many of them, that do not have the government they (percentage wise) voted for (those that bothered to vote). It is a fact of any democracy - and will be the same under an independent Scotland too!

You took what I said out of context with respect to jobs - it was in response to your claims Scotland has suffered so much - when in truth Scotland did much better out of the last government than anywhere else pretty much. Also not a fabrication - or are you saying they did not close the Southend VAT Offices and regional Tax Offices (IR), merge them and move it wholesale to Glasgow? What do you think happened to the people who were employed in those offices? They were made redundant - i.e. lost their jobs. Glasgow town centre has vastly improved during the Labour years - it is almost unrecognisable ( yes, I visit there - I have friends there too - who were born and bred - they claim that it is common knowledge that 50% of the workforce in Glasgow works for the UK state ).

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Were I Welsh, I would want some element of the Welsh flag be incorporated; at last!

I think the Welsh know that the Tudors had/have a big influence on the UK............thumbsup.gif.pagespeed.ce.dtxKiAJ9C7.gif

As did the Stuarts!

I'm trying to think of the last English King of England.

Harold II, wasn't it?

I am nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo historian but think I recall that the Tudors came from Wales. Sure I will be corrected. smile.png.pagespeed.ce.CwSpBGGvqN.png

Which was sort of my point; Normans and Plantagenets basically French; Tudors were Welsh(ish); Stuarts were Scots; from then on a mixture (through marriage) of Germans, Danes, Scots, Greeks etc.

Richard III was the last Plantagenet; so French(ish)

Edited by 7by7
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Were I Welsh, I would want some element of the Welsh flag be incorporated; at last!

I think the Welsh know that the Tudors had/have a big influence on the UK............thumbsup.gif.pagespeed.ce.dtxKiAJ9C7.gif
...

...

Which was sort of my point; Normans and Plantagenets basically French; Tudors were Welsh(ish); Stuarts were Scots; from then on a mixture (through marriage) of Germans, Danes, Scots, Greeks etc.

Richard III was the last Plantagenet; so French(ish)

If they've been in country three years, that's good enough for the IRB, and it's good enough for me.

SC

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scots are headed down the pan ..>>>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/myth-north-sea-oil-scots-face-1k-deficit-085959925.html#WUK7O83

By Ian Dunt

Scotland would be "significantly worse off" under independence, with the deficit growing by an average of £1,000 per person, according to economists.

Research by the impartial Centre for Public Policy for Regions (CPPR), an economic think tank, warned that Alex Salmond had "skewed in an optimistic manner" estimates for North Sea oil revenues and failed to incorporate recent downward trends in production.

Edited by 3NUMBAS
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To be honest, if we're just bickering about oil, let's take the easy road and invade Norway, eh?

Or if we're whinging because our neighbours vote differently from the way we do, let's establish a democracy in the fashion of the Korean or the German democratic republics.

SC

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I read that the Shetland Isles (who's waters cover most of the oil whistling.gif ) want to go it alone, break from Scotland w00t.gif.

Bet King Salmond had to change his underwear after hearing that. laugh.png

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A currency union will eventually be agreed between an independentScotland and the remainder of the UK to ensure fiscal and economic stability on both sides of the border, according to a government minister at the heart of the pro-union campaign.

Well well well who would have believed

.plenty people in Scotland for a start knew it was a bluff with England ,Wales and N Ireland too much to lose

Bullies never win in the end

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A currency union will eventually be agreed between an independentScotland and the remainder of the UK to ensure fiscal and economic stability on both sides of the border, according to a government minister at the heart of the pro-union campaign.

Well well well who would have believed

.plenty people in Scotland for a start knew it was a bluff with England ,Wales and N Ireland too much to lose

Bullies never win in the end

cheesy.gifcheesy.gifcheesy.gifcheesy.gifcheesy.gif

Words of an unnamed minister...

Seems today The Guardian have it from the houses mouth.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/29/osborne-alexander-quash-currency-union-with-scotland coffee1.gif

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A currency union will eventually be agreed between an independentScotland and the remainder of the UK to ensure fiscal and economic stability on both sides of the border, according to a government minister at the heart of the pro-union campaign.

Well well well who would have believed

.plenty people in Scotland for a start knew it was a bluff with England ,Wales and N Ireland too much to lose

Bullies never win in the end

Who are we to believe?

A 'minister' hiding behind anonymity?

Or government ministers, including the Chancellor, and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury; who say what they have to say publicly?

I go for the latter.

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Written by a man who calls someone he disagrees with a traitor! A man who says that the previous 'border' was unfair!

The pre 1999 border, which Murray says was unfair, was a straight line from where the land border met the coast.

The post 1999 border is a continuation of the actual land border itself in the same direction.

We've regularly heard the Yes campaign calling the UK government 'bullies' and similar for not caving in to their demands, and here we have another pro independence campaigner saying that anything which they don't like is unfair!

A straight line he calls unfair to Scotland. A continuation of the land border he calls unfair to Scotland. What would he like? Scotland to 'own' the sea from the Shetlands down to the Isle of Wight!?

Isn't it time these people stopped throwing their toys out of the pram, grew up and campaigned like adults; assuming they truly believe they have a real case.

Edited by 7by7
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so the border is now Carnoustie is that what you are telling me..Please look up Carnoustie before you reply...

..All water south of Carnoustie to Berwick are English waters ...

...sound o so familiar historically ...

.no throwing the toys out of the pram pure and simple Scots taking care of their own destiny ..

..UK can have the Tories,liberals and Labour;

Again another unionist begging for the Scots to be in the Union because the Union would be stronger but Scotland weaker.

Now that your posting about 7 by7 about currency have been discredited as the man on the streets knew they would be amazing that you failed to answer to that first before your poor attempt at replying to the maritime border issue..

Its sad to see grown men squirm

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Who are we to believe?



A 'minister' hiding behind anonymity?



Or government ministers, including the Chancellor, and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury; who say what they have to say publicly?



I go for the latter.




of course what is said publicly is the Truth we all NO that,,,,Think you need to lie down old chap...all these irritant highlanders are affecting your thinking and judgement.........


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As the population of Scotland is less than 10% of the UK I so without Scotland it will very much the same, governed and administered from London.

As for Scotland...

They have a lot of decisions to make...

What Currency to use, more to the point which currency can they use?

To join the EU, more to the point will they be allowed in?

Who's head on the bank notes, The Queen or Salmond's, I.E. will Liz remain head of state or Salmond become President for life?

Will they apply to join the Commonwealth?

One thing for sure is that without Scotland being in the EU there will be no open boarder between England and Scotland.

Apparently they will have to apply to join the EU and it is highly probable they will be rejected. From some kind of a straw poll taken the referendum will be lost and Scotland will remain with the UK.

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scots are headed down the pan ..>>>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/myth-north-sea-oil-scots-face-1k-deficit-085959925.html#WUK7O83

By Ian Dunt

Scotland would be "significantly worse off" under independence, with the deficit growing by an average of £1,000 per person, according to economists.

Research by the impartial Centre for Public Policy for Regions (CPPR), an economic think tank, warned that Alex Salmond had "skewed in an optimistic manner" estimates for North Sea oil revenues and failed to incorporate recent downward trends in production.

North Sea Oil is offshore, so how can it belong to Scotland ?

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scots are headed down the pan ..>>>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/myth-north-sea-oil-scots-face-1k-deficit-085959925.html#WUK7O83

By Ian Dunt

Scotland would be "significantly worse off" under independence, with the deficit growing by an average of £1,000 per person, according to economists.

Research by the impartial Centre for Public Policy for Regions (CPPR), an economic think tank, warned that Alex Salmond had "skewed in an optimistic manner" estimates for North Sea oil revenues and failed to incorporate recent downward trends in production.

North Sea Oil is offshore, so how can it belong to Scotland ?

We'll all be living like Arabs on the sands of Tannadice, with eager immigrant workers at our beck and call
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so the border is now Carnoustie is that what you are telling me..Please look up Carnoustie before you reply...

Look at Murray's map; you remember, the one you linked to!

The maritime border begins where the land border meets the coast and follows the same direction.

Actually, it doesn't; it begins south of the actual border at Berwick; but we'll give you that.

Murray has the gall to say that even the previous maritime border, beginning at Berwick and following a parallel line of latitude, was unfair! How does he reckon that?

Now that your posting about 7 by7 about currency have been discredited as the man on the streets knew they would be amazing that you failed to answer to that first before your poor attempt at replying to the maritime border issue.

Err, I did answer that first. You must have read that post because you have quoted it and replied to it!

Although your reply makes no sense. You believe that one person who cloaks himself in anonymity is speaking the truth, but the many who speak openly and in public, including the Chancellor, the Shadow Chancellor, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and Permanent Secretary to the Treasury, Sir Nicholas Macpherson, are lying.

Strange logic.

Logic which says that Salmond and his cronies must be lying too!

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so the border is now Carnoustie is that what you are telling me..Please look up Carnoustie before you reply...

Look at Murray's map; you remember, the one you linked to!

The maritime border begins where the land border meets the coast and follows the same direction.

Actually, it doesn't; it begins south of the actual border at Berwick; but we'll give you that.

Murray has the gall to say that even the previous maritime border, beginning at Berwick and following a parallel line of latitude, was unfair! How does he reckon that?

Now that your posting about 7 by7 about currency have been discredited as the man on the streets knew they would be amazing that you failed to answer to that first before your poor attempt at replying to the maritime border issue.

Err, I did answer that first. You must have read that post because you have quoted it and replied to it!

Although your reply makes no sense. You believe that one person who cloaks himself in anonymity is speaking the truth, but the many who speak openly and in public, including the Chancellor, the Shadow Chancellor, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and Permanent Secretary to the Treasury, Sir Nicholas Macpherson, are lying.

Strange logic.

Logic which says that Salmond and his cronies must be lying too!

you dont half put a lot of effort and time into all of your posts 7 by 7 i will give you that....... a lot of words but you dont actually say anything,,well anything of substance that is..........i would think a man of your maturity would know by now that the public voice isnt what it seems and especially in the game of politics and business for that matter there are pawns everywhere......Figure that one out it plain speaking for many of us Scots. all these smoke screens and distraction tactics are just that....Scottish people know exactly what is going on and what has been going on for a very long time........yes you can comment but you dont have any idea what it is to be Scottish and no that is not a cheap line and a defensive counterargument. Change favours the brave Scotland has been weakened long enough ...and yes we know that Everyone is lying,,,,but like i said we would prefer to hang out own ,,that we did vote for,,,

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So is this now the official Yes campaign line?

"We will get everything we want and if the UK government say different then they are lying, unfair and bullies."

That sort of thing may work in the primary school playground; but surely the Scottish people aren't stupid enough to fall for it?

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So is this now the official Yes campaign line?

"We will get everything we want and if the UK government say different then they are lying, unfair and bullies."

That sort of thing may work in the primary school playground; but surely the Scottish people aren't stupid enough to fall for it?

"OH" but many are, let's hope it becomes the majority, then we'll be rid of them.

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Lets hope the Scots make the right decision.

The sooner they are gone the sooner the inequities created by the Barnett Formula will end !

The Northern Tribes will discover that the long pocket/short arm syndrome will only work if relying on others to fund largess !

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The sooner they are gone the sooner the inequities created by the Barnett Formula will end !

Why are the uk government so desperate for scotland to be in the union yet if they have been subsidised so heavily at the expense of the other Uk citizens

Why is England itself not demanding independence from the scrounging Scots

wher is the logic in a better together campaign

We all know where the majority of lies are coming from..

.Labour who the Scots voted for in many years,,,now the majority of Scots Quite rightly dont

The Tories who the majority of Scots have never ever voted for past and present and their puppets the Lib/dems

We also know that the SNp have been lying also Its the nature of modern day politics running side by side with high end business.

The lies and deceit of the SNP politicians wont go away in a independent Scotland but all the lies about Scotland sinking if going independent just wont happen,,,very very astute people are the scots and they can finally be free from the shackles of westminister

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salmon is leeding the jocks over the cliff like lemings. they just dont get it ,that as a foreign country the UK wont be bailing out their banks in the event of failure ,salmon just shrugs it off as propaganda and lies for some reason

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The sooner they are gone the sooner the inequities created by the Barnett Formula will end !

Why are the uk government so desperate for scotland to be in the union yet if they have been subsidised so heavily at the expense of the other Uk citizens

Why is England itself not demanding independence from the scrounging Scots

wher is the logic in a better together campaign

We all know where the majority of lies are coming from..

.Labour who the Scots voted for in many years,,,now the majority of Scots Quite rightly dont

The Tories who the majority of Scots have never ever voted for past and present and their puppets the Lib/dems

We also know that the SNp have been lying also Its the nature of modern day politics running side by side with high end business.

The lies and deceit of the SNP politicians wont go away in a independent Scotland but all the lies about Scotland sinking if going independent just wont happen,,,very very astute people are the scots and they can finally be free from the shackles of westminister

It is not just Scotland that will suffer if too many turkeys vote for xmas.

1. there will be a need for us (the UK) to operate a land boarder, that is going to cost millions.

2. all the organisations that will have to be split up like the NHS, Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise, armed forces, DWP, DVLC, the police force, immigration, the list is endless, and the cost will be billions.

3. with dual nationality, tax evasion will be rife.

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The sooner they are gone the sooner the inequities created by the Barnett Formula will end !

Why are the uk government so desperate for scotland to be in the union yet if they have been subsidised so heavily at the expense of the other Uk citizens

Why is England itself not demanding independence from the scrounging Scots

wher is the logic in a better together campaign

We all know where the majority of lies are coming from..

.Labour who the Scots voted for in many years,,,now the majority of Scots Quite rightly dont

The Tories who the majority of Scots have never ever voted for past and present and their puppets the Lib/dems

We also know that the SNp have been lying also Its the nature of modern day politics running side by side with high end business.

The lies and deceit of the SNP politicians wont go away in a independent Scotland but all the lies about Scotland sinking if going independent just wont happen,,,very very astute people are the scots and they can finally be free from the shackles of westminister

Very happy to see you acknowledge the inequalities of the Barnett formula, this being one of the reasons the rest of the UK are pissed off with the Scott's.

Yes, it would seem that the government ( as opposed to the people ) would prefer for Scotland to remain in the Union, why only God knows, maybe they think it gives them more prestige to represent a country that that has such a glorious history, even though Scotland's population is only 5,000,000 compared to a total UK population of 66,000,000.

You ask why England is not demanding freedom from the burden of Scotland, well of course the English are NOT allowed that privilege, the same as they are not allowed to vote on the EU.

You mention Labour, "WHO"caused much of the disunity in the UK ? Labour. lead by the most disastrous PM in the history of our country, that Scotsman by the name of Tony Blair

and his right hand man Gordon Brown, another Scotsman.

The Scott's have voted for the Conservatives on many occasions, true not in recent years, but it could equally be said that the Home Counties do not vote Labour, yet the people of the Home Counties do not act like some spoilt child when they don't get their own way.

Completely agree with you that the SNP are liars and deceitful, the same as most politicians of what ever persuasion.

Sorry, Alex Salmonds and the SNP have shown that many Scots are not astute, in fact the very opposite. What you've never answered is why after 260 years of unity, during which period the rest of the UK subsidised the Scottish economy, they suddenly decide they want separation,

Well the answer to that of course is Oil, they are now expected to put more into the pot, than take out, just the same as south east England is now also subsidising UK plc. The difference of course is that the people of London and area are not just fair weather folk. And I say this as a northerner, who believes that in the event of the exit of Scotland, many state jobs, that over recent years have been transferred to Scotland, will be returned to England,Wales and N.I. to create much needed work, along of course with many private companies such as Standard Life and Scottish Widows who have expressed a realisation that they will also transfer much of their operation further south.

Do I think that Scotland will sink in the event of separation, certainly not. What I think will happen is that the majority, will over time see a small reduction in their standard of living,

While a few others will take the opportunity to obtain cushy government jobs, along with certain people who will be able to go cap in hand to Brussels, begging to join the EU as the head of state for Scotland.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

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Very happy to see you acknowledge the inequalities of the Barnett formula, this being one of the reasons the rest of the UK are pissed off with the Scott's.

Another myth that has been independently verified that is it actually the other way ....Plenty Uk government papers out there to show you how Scotland has been propping up the Uk economy.

.Labour. lead by the most disastrous PM in the history of our country

​That is open to debate on the most disastrous PM many Scots would say Margaret Thatcher in our country if not England.

The Scott's have voted for the Conservatives on many occasions

Well certainly not in my voting lifetime since 1976 NEVER,,,not even close ,1997 they had NONE out of 54 candidates,,,previous years they had 1 .

What you've never answered is why after 260 years of unity, during which period the rest of the UK subsidised the Scottish economy, they suddenly decide they want separation,

There was never unity The union was never created democratically.....Riots in the streets o Edinburgh and all around the country.is what actually historically did happen.

You seem an intelligent chap so please investigate more deeply the myth of England subsidising Scotland....

.Many Scots wanted separation long before oil was discovered another fact

Well the answer to that of course is Oil, they are now expected to put more into the pot, than take out, just the same as south east England is now also subsidising UK plc

Oil is only one part of why the Scots want independence and to say otherwise is again the smugness of the English in looking down their superior GB noses

.England,Wales and N.I. to create much needed work, along of course with many private companies such as Standard Life and Scottish Widows who have expressed a realisation that they will also transfer much of their operation further south.

Let them go we the Scots are happy for them to go give jobs and create wealth in England like we have been doing for many years whats new.

​OH forgot that Scotland can and will be able to attract high quality workforce with an integrity that is sadly missing in post Thatcher Britain.

Scotland does not want The Tories never have ,,England can keep them and that is Cameroons game plan why do you think Darling has been put at the front of the better together campaign.

oh we don't want Mill bank either in his Tory vest .....

​Scotland will not stagnate ..of course the Americans will have a big influence on what eventually will happen but there again with the huge Scottish diaspora there they be very careful not to upset them for their own political ambitions in the good old US of A..

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