being a director WITHOUT a work permit?

[primapagina]

I read some posts on this forum about being a Director AND getting a work permit, but in my case I wonder if it is possible being a Director of a Thai limited company WITHOUT having a work permit.

I know it sounds silly, but the reason is: I already have one work permit from another company, and the new company won't have more than one Thai employe during the first year, making difficult or impossible to get an additional work permit. And I want to be able to manage the company without asking my Thai partners every time I need a signature on a document or a bank transfer (just to mention a few examples). Or at least being a co-director with one of them, which is ok to me.

This is my first post on the forum (although I've been reading it for a long time, thank you all for your posts, especially the funny ones following the news), so I hope I am not breaking any forum policy here.

[Mario2008]

If you want to sign documents and not only be the owner but also managing director you need a work permit.

If the new company is located outside the area of the labour office of your current employer you might be able to get a work permit without the need of getting permisison from the first employer. Might!

[primapagina]

Thank you Mario. So as a 'simple' shareholder I cannot have any power for the day-to-day operations?

I didn't know the old company (it's based in the same location) must releases a permission to me to get the second work permit. No problem for that, as the owners are shareholders of the new company.

Problem is: the new company won't be allowed to provide a work permit to me, because it's a start up (including the fact that there will be only one or two thai employes).

[digitalchromakey]

You do not need a Work Permit to be a shareholder in a Thai Limited Company plus you could be be a director and signing documents outside of Thailand.

However if you intend to manage the company, or sign documents within Thailand, then both of these activities would certainly require a Work Permit.

Check with your local Labour dept as they may initially accept less than 4 Thai employees (or 2 if you are married to a Thai) for a start up company.

Also be aware of the occupations and activities within Thailand that are restricted to Thais only including supervising, auditing or giving services in accounting, brokerage or agency work, secretarial/clerical work.

[Loles]

If you want to make any act in TH as a director you need work permit, this is not question at all.

I mean effect: open bank account for Co., signature any paper as director in TH, submit any procedure in Co. name, etc .....

But with 1 Thai employee you can't make work permit this is also not question at all.

regards

[primapagina]

Thank you Loles. Actually, it's probably better if I say again that I actually have a work permit, and as some of you know for sure, it required tons of paperwork.

Problem is: it comes from another company. Now I am founding a new one. And in the new one I need to have as many management power as possible. But it looks like I cannot have any power without being the Director, and cannot be a Director without a NEW work permit coming from a new company's request to the Thai authorities.

I am sorry about the topic name, now I realized it can be misleading.

[falang07]

Yes, unfortunately making business in Thailand with having too much rights is not possible for foreigners. They (Thais) want to make business themselves, foreigners should just spend money earned abroad in here. This is the main policy in basic terms.

[Eddy B]

You can have more than one place of work submitted into a work permit as long as the 1st workplace agrees. If they do not agree then it can be difficult.

[Dork]

It may be worth noting that the penalties for engaging in work in violation of the conditions of a work permit are considerably less severe than the penalties for not having a work permit at all.

[primapagina]

Good point, Dork. Thank you. By the way, I am a specialist of finding myself in unusual situations. For example, recently I had not enough time to request the B Visa before exiting the country for a trip, and when I came back I entered Thailand as a tourist. So I guess I am one of the few persons with a work permit, but staying in the country as a tourist! I am sure the opposite situation is much more common. (I am sure this is a minor violation. I will fix it with my next trip).

I wonder if being a Director in the new company without a wage and without (officially) doing any type of work for the company, apart from supervising and signing documents may change the requirement of the work permit, as it is not exactly a job, but more a series of control tasks.

(for those new to the threads I repeat I have a work permit, but requested from another company, not the one I want to be the director of).

But at this point it is just speculating, and in need of a specialized lawyer...

[ubonjoe]

If you don't have non immigrant visa entry your work permit is not valid. So you are now working illegally.

[primapagina]

Hi Ubunjoe, the work permit specialist here thinks differently from you (and so do I. I have the blue booklet in front of me, and I got it with the correct non immigrant non visa b. Cannot imagine why it should be considered not valid,right now, just because the last time I entered Thailand I did it as a tourist). Although is not a problem for me (I am leaving the country in a few days and will be back in a couple of months with a B visa), this might be of interest for other people. So we should be careful about that: are you sure, for direct experience or maybe the opinion of a person working at the labour office?

[Mario2008]

Immigration rules do not allow you to work on a tourist visa.

[primapagina]

This sounds different. Looks like the irregularity is about immigration rules, but not necessarily implies that my work permit is not valid. Maybe a subtle difference, but probably means that the irregularity is a minor one.

[Mario2008]

The WP is not invalid, but working requires a WP plus a valid stay based on a non-immigrant visa.

But would be interesting to see how it is worded in the regulations. It might be a loop in the regulations or you might be in a lot of trouble when found out. Immigration will find that you are in a lot of trouble. Not sure what labour will find, but they for sure will not extend your WP on your current entry.

[digitalchromakey]

This sounds different. Looks like the irregularity is about immigration rules, but not necessarily implies that my work permit is not valid. Maybe a subtle difference, but probably means that the irregularity is a minor one.

I suspect that Labour would regard your Work Permit as invalid for work if you were to enter Thailand under a Tourist Visa, which allows someone to present to immigration to enter Thailand 'for the purposes of tourism'.

Thai Working of Aliens Act 2551 Section 10.

Any alien applying for a permit under Section 9 shall have either a residence in the Kingdom or enter the

Kingdom for temporary stay under the law on immigration, but not enter under

tourist or transit visa and possess the characteristic as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulation.

My reading would be that your WP technically remains valid per se, but you cannot legally use it to work.

[Mario2008]

Yes, but technically that only goes for applying for a work permit, it doesn't say anything about already having a work permit and entering without a non-immigrant visa.

[recycler]

Strictly speaking you would need a workpermit or add the new company in your existing workpermit.

But your risk is depending on the activity of the company. If you open a restaurant, bar or shop where you will be working in public your risk of getting in trouble is much bigger than when you do business to business or export etc. If your company is running in a year or 2 you can make all arrangements for the workpermit etc.

I work almost 10 years with a workpermit, but have never been asked to show it.

[tyler2208]

of course you can be a director without a work permit.

Look how many farangs used to ( perhaps still do ) become directors of limited companies in order to circumvent land ownership laws, they didn't need work permits.

you need a work permit to work, not to be a director

[primapagina]

@tyler: you are right, I got the same opinion today from another well-informed person I just met. It's a little stretched, he said, but possible to be a Director without a WP. Obviously the director should not receive any money from the company.

@digitalchromakey your line "My reading would be that your WP technically remains valid per se, but you cannot legally use it to work." sounds the most logical of all!

@recycler luckily I do not work in a public place, and at the moment I am mostly doing online researches, from an office or from home. Low risk.

I am just a little worried about what could be in a few weeks, when I will be back with a new non imm B Visa, in case the immigration does not accept the new non imm B Visa because the number on it is not the same number on the documents filed to the Labour office at the time of the WP request. I will post the answer here

[digitalchromakey]

I am just a little worried about what could be in a few weeks, when I will be back with a new non imm B Visa, in case the immigration does not accept the new non imm B Visa because the number on it is not the same number on the documents filed to the Labour office at the time of the WP request. I will post the answer here

This will not be a problem - Immigration do not have access to Labour Dept records, they will look at your new non immigrant 'B' visa based purely on its face value.

Plus when issuing your WP, Labour would only have been interested in the fact that you made a valid 90 day entry on a non immigrant 'b' visa, not the visa issue number itself.

[philw]

Hi Ubunjoe, the work permit specialist here thinks differently from you (and so do I. I have the blue booklet in front of me, and I got it with the correct non immigrant non visa b. Cannot imagine why it should be considered not valid,right now, just because the last time I entered Thailand I did it as a tourist). Although is not a problem for me (I am leaving the country in a few days and will be back in a couple of months with a B visa), this might be of interest for other people. So we should be careful about that: are you sure, for direct experience or maybe the opinion of a person working at the labour office?

Tourist visa and visa on arrival normally specify " employment not allowed "

[jpduggan]

Any one here with property in a company name is a director without a work permit,,,,surely.

[MILT]

I'm no moderator and far be it for me to make a judgment call but your post is a bit funny.

What blares out like a trumpet during a midnight sunrise is that your are showing 7 posts

made including this current post, and you state "This is my first post on the forum (although I've been reading it for a long time, thank you all for your posts, especially the funny ones......"

[asean]

This is exactly why you should never come to thai visa for advice.

1. you can add another company to current work permit only if first employer allows.

2. you cannot have two work permits.

3. if you are in Thailand on any visa other than marriage, parent or non b then your work permit is invalid and you are breaking the law (no matter what visa you had when you got the work permit)

4. you CAN be a director of a Thai company without a work permit as long as you don't do any work in Thailand. Execution of ministry of commerce DBD company documents excluded.

5. work means use of labour or knowledge paid or unpaid.