Screwed after working in thailand for 15 yrs.

[uncola]

you know it is pretty degrading for those of us who have work permits to have to get tested for VD and to prove we are not alcoholics. i guess that is the point of the test when applying for a one year work visa?

now i am about to retire after all these years of working here. i have worked 178 months [180 months is when you can retire with benefits] and i have paid for social security every month even though when i first was told about it i said 'i don't want to pay this. i am not going to work here long enough to collect on it.' however i got cheap medical which was pretty good and at the same time they added to a fund that accumulated each month and in recent years when i checked into it i was told i could either take the lump sum, in my case about 140k which actually is the total amt i paid into social security or i could draw a monthly check from social security. imagine my surprise when i checked with the chiangmai social security office. they said yes i could do one or the other. i could collect my 140k but then i would have to stop working within 6 months. i don't want to stop working because i have lots of staff who really would not have jobs if i can't work. the alternative is i can draw 1000 baht a month forever as my social security payment. thais at the same income level as me can draw 3 times that amt at least. there were times when i had as many as 70 employees but on average 25-30.

how is this fair? first i reluctantly paid in the system but i did pay the same as a thai person and all they are going to do is give me my money back after 15yrs [no interest even] or they will dole it out in such a small amt and discriminate against me because i am not thai. [to discourage me from being a foreigner on the social security rolls?]

first i am forced to pay it and then i am not about to get the same benefit upon retirement as a thai even though i paid in at exactly the same rate.

tell me someone at the local office has this all wrong.

[PlastikbinLina]

Yes it's like a dark persons left foot, it's not fair and it's not right. However you didn't say whether you work for a Thai company or a foreign one. But even if you did get the 140,000 without having to stop work voluntarily, as it seems, would you have enough money to retire here which requires. 800,000 Bht /annum money in the bank or 65,000 Bht/month income? Alternatively a marriage visa along with 400,000 money in the bank or 40,000 monthly income if married to a Thai lady would do it for you. Finally may I ask are you eligable for an aged pension in your own country? Retiring nowadays in any country is problamatic especially as living costs have risen way above the meagre fortnightly government pensions in most western countries.

[TerryLH]

Thai Social Security works the same no matter what your nationality is.

Once you quit working you can continue paying 432 baht a month and keep your health coverage. You have to sign up for that at the SS Office within a couple of months of becoming ineligible through work.

[lemoncake]

Sorry but i am somewhat confused.

According to your post, you have 140 000 baht but have worked for 178 months.

That would mean that your salary is around 20 000 baht per month.

How did you have work permit?

[Tywais]

Also confused. I worked about the same length of time before hitting mandatory retirement age for permanent position government work and received a lump sum well over double that. I also continued work afterwards, and still am, but went to annual contracts rather than permanent position as before which is allowed when one is a significant contributor to Thailand.

#lemoncake - there is a cap on contributions and as such he could have been making more then 20k. Also not all positions need to satisfy the minimum salary requirements for a WP. Actually I'm not sure if that requirement is for the WP or for the extension of stay from immigration, pretty sure it is the latter.

[NeverSure]

Yes it's like a dark persons left foot, it's not fair and it's not right. However you didn't say whether you work for a Thai company or a foreign one. But even if you did get the 140,000 without having to stop work voluntarily, as it seems, would you have enough money to retire here which requires. 800,000 Bht /annum money in the bank or 65,000 Bht/month income? Alternatively a marriage visa along with 400,000 money in the bank or 40,000 monthly income if married to a Thai lady would do it for you. Finally may I ask are you eligable for an aged pension in your own country? Retiring nowadays in any country is problamatic especially as living costs have risen way above the meagre fortnightly government pensions in most western countries.

Obviously I'm not sure, but his writing resembles an American's. If that's true and he hasn't paid into social security for the past 20 years he won't get anything. SS is based on how much one paid in which is based on how much one earned. Higher earners pay more and collect more.

This is the main reason that I worked hard in the US to age 66 (age 66 1/2 now) to get full benefits. I get US$2,500 (80k+ baht) per month. If I had worked until age 70 I could have increased that by 25% but I was finished in my mind, and didn't need the money.

I worry about people working in LOS at earlier ages and not paying into their country's retirement system, and maybe also a company's system, or investing in a government approved, tax deferred account.

If the OP has worked that long and is worried about 200k or 300k baht, IMHO it's time to start thinking ahead.

Edited November 26, 2013 by NeverSure

[lemoncake]

Also confused. I worked about the same length of time before hitting mandatory retirement age for permanent position government work and received a lump sum well over double that. I also continued work afterwards, and still am, but went to annual contracts rather than permanent position as before which is allowed when one is a significant contributor to Thailand.

#lemoncake - there is a cap on contributions and as such he could have been making more then 20k. Also not all positions need to satisfy the minimum salary requirements for a WP. Actually I'm not sure if that requirement is for the WP or for the extension of stay from immigration, pretty sure it is the latter.

From what I know it's 4% from the salary and there is a minimum wage for foreigner to have WP. Most western countries it's around 50K per month.

OP mentioned to have 35-70 staff , so even if he was not the owner but a manager, his contributions would appear to be based on 20k per month salary.

[ubonjoe]

Also confused.  I worked about the same length of time before hitting mandatory retirement age for permanent position government work and received a lump sum well over double that.  I also continued work afterwards, and still am, but went to annual contracts rather than permanent position as before which is allowed when one is a significant contributor to Thailand.

 

#lemoncake - there is a cap on contributions and as such he could have been making more then 20k.  Also not all positions need to satisfy the minimum salary requirements for a WP.  Actually I'm not sure if that requirement is for the WP or for the extension of stay from immigration, pretty sure it is the latter.

From what I know it's 4% from the salary and there is a minimum wage for foreigner to have WP. Most western countries it's around 50K per month.

OP mentioned to have 35-70 staff , so even if he was not the owner but a manager, his contributions would appear to be based on 20k per month salary.

There is no minimum salary requirement to get a work permit.

An extension of stay based upon working under clause 2.1 of the police order has a minimum salary requirement based upon nationality from 25k to 50k per month.

Other extensions of stay have no minimum salary (IE: teaching).

[lemoncake]

Also confused. I worked about the same length of time before hitting mandatory retirement age for permanent position government work and received a lump sum well over double that. I also continued work afterwards, and still am, but went to annual contracts rather than permanent position as before which is allowed when one is a significant contributor to Thailand.

#lemoncake - there is a cap on contributions and as such he could have been making more then 20k. Also not all positions need to satisfy the minimum salary requirements for a WP. Actually I'm not sure if that requirement is for the WP or for the extension of stay from immigration, pretty sure it is the latter.

From what I know it's 4% from the salary and there is a minimum wage for foreigner to have WP. Most western countries it's around 50K per month.

OP mentioned to have 35-70 staff , so even if he was not the owner but a manager, his contributions would appear to be based on 20k per month salary.

There is no minimum salary requirement to get a work permit.

An extension of stay based upon working under clause 2.1 of the police order has a minimum salary requirement based upon nationality from 25k to 50k per month.

Other extensions of stay have no minimum salary (IE: teaching).

Ok, thats not what my accountant advised, unless i misunderstood.

[ubonjoe]

No comment on your accountant other than he is wrong.

[lemoncake]

No comment on your accountant other than he is wrong.

Its a she and women are never wrong

[Tywais]

Also confused. I worked about the same length of time before hitting mandatory retirement age for permanent position government work and received a lump sum well over double that. I also continued work afterwards, and still am, but went to annual contracts rather than permanent position as before which is allowed when one is a significant contributor to Thailand.

#lemoncake - there is a cap on contributions and as such he could have been making more then 20k. Also not all positions need to satisfy the minimum salary requirements for a WP. Actually I'm not sure if that requirement is for the WP or for the extension of stay from immigration, pretty sure it is the latter.

From what I know it's 4% from the salary and there is a minimum wage for foreigner to have WP.

Possibly because I work for the government they matched my contributions for the SS.

[uncola]

in answer to some of your questions. i am american and i did work in the USA just long enough to qualify for US social security benefits. i am 66 and as of this month will begin receiving payments. as of feb next year i will also qualify for thai social security since i worked here paying into thai social security for 180 months [15yrs]. immigration requires me to have a thai salary of 60k per month which i actually did however thai social security does their calculations based on a max amt of 15k per month and that is why i paid into social security based on that amt and that is what they have told me my benefits will be based on.

i went to chiangmai social security office again and was told a slightly revised story the second time. i still have the option of taking a lump sum, 140k, but i must stop working within 6 months or here is where they revised the numbers... i can be paid a monthly amount of 3000 baht [not 1000 baht as they told me the first time]. if that is the case i am not a screwed as i once thought.

i was told to come back with my bookkeeper in jan to apply for retirement benefits and i can decide at that time to either take the lump sum or be paid benefits each month. i can also keep my medical coverage by paying what i do now, $15-20 a month.

i still have several questions:

can i still work after i apply for retirement and receive monthly payments? i have clients and staff who depend on me.

if i retire and still have thai social medical coverage are there any restrictions? or does it continue on as it is today?

[Mario2008]

You can work in Thailand, but you will not get a work permit if you are on an extension of stay based on retirement. For that you will need to change your reason for staying in Thailand to work.

Minimum income requirement for many jobs for an american national is 50,000 baht a month.

[FiftyTwo]

It's the way pensions work.

An annuity pension pays about 5% of the total original investment back each year.

Assuming they make no interest, that's 20 years before you get your money back.

At 140k, giving you 1k a month, 12k a year, only 12 years to recover the investment.

That's a pretty good deal compared to western annuity pensions.

Edited November 28, 2013 by FiftyTwo