Keeping Track Of Serious Crimes Against Foreigners

[GuestHouse]

I am sure I am not the only person who 'Believes' serious crime against foreigners is on the increase [Murder/Rape/Muggings/Beatings].

The thing is, there are no records, we hear of these things, they get reported here and elsewhere, then the trail goes cold and the numbers merge into a 'Feeling' or a 'Belief' that these attacks are getting more prevelant, but no hard numbers exist.

So. Perhaps it's time an online record where kept.

Any thoughts?

[Patex]

I think, until Thailand does not start to build gas- chambers we can do it without such a record... What benefit do you expect? These crimes against foreigeners (I presume you meant caucasian, English- speaking "Farangs"?) are personal misfortune and not organised killings like in Toxins "War on drugs".

[Wallalai]

Why do you need any record ? It's not your country, it's not your homeland, so, if you don't feel well here you can emigrate ?

[LaoPo]

You can find a lot of statistics (except to foreigners) in Thailand here:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/th/cri

LaoPo

[GuestHouse]

Why do you need any record ? It's not your country, it's not your homeland, so, if you don't feel well here you can emigrate ?

Since I take it you are not Thai, why do you object to my suggestion?

What benefit might this have?

Well firstly to put a scale on the attacks, seconly to determine trends.

No. I was not suggesting English Speaking Caucasians, I was suggesting foreigners.

[britmaveric]

Could be easily done, ie a dBase. However I think it would benefit if there was info that a case was resolved or not and for the most part these cases never are resolved, just forgotten.

[GuestHouse]

Any reason in your arguments seems to be lost in your use of abusive language.

One point of reason that is not hidden by your profanity is the basis of the argument you make: That it is the victims of these crimes have somehow brought the crimes on themselves.

They may have, they may not have. Without statistics to demonstrate this to be the case you are back where I say we all are, expressing an unfounded belief - albeit with recourse to the language of the gutter.

[ZZZ]

As far as I have seen the number of misbehaving foreigners in Thailand have increased many times more than crimes against foreigners.

Could this have something to do with the problem?

[robitusson]

I am sure I am not the only person who 'Believes' serious crime against foreigners is on the increase [Murder/Rape/Muggings/Beatings].

The thing is, there are no records, we hear of these things, they get reported here and elsewhere, then the trail goes cold and the numbers merge into a 'Feeling' or a 'Belief' that these attacks are getting more prevelant, but no hard numbers exist.

So. Perhaps it's time an online record where kept.

Any thoughts?

Sounds like victimisation to me. Thai people are not 'out to get' Farangs. It's not us vs. them.

[Maejo Man]

[quote name="Wallalai date='2006-05-07 22:36:52' post='739012'

*******************

Btw I am not a Brit, Thai nor a tourist.

Then by default one would presume that you are foreign and judging by your patent dislike of the British, and your turn of phrase, I would imagine you are French

What pray tell was your reason for coming? Temples?

[SDH]

I am sure I am not the only person who 'Believes' serious crime against foreigners is on the increase [Murder/Rape/Muggings/Beatings].

The thing is, there are no records, we hear of these things, they get reported here and elsewhere, then the trail goes cold and the numbers merge into a 'Feeling' or a 'Belief' that these attacks are getting more prevelant, but no hard numbers exist.

So. Perhaps it's time an online record where kept.

Any thoughts?

Yup,

The incidence of Farang associated crime is not up but better publicized these days....Pattaya is an easy score for any journalist where you can turn a purse snatching into a major news story.

[chuchok]

Why do you need any record ? It's not your country, it's not your homeland, so, if you don't feel well here you can emigrate ?

I wish you would emigrate.

[Tippaporn]

What's the point? To what end? Where's the benefit and to whom? Paranoid?

[GuestHouse]

What's the point? To what end? Where's the benefit and to whom? Paranoid?

To remove irrationality might be one positive thing.

[Tippaporn]

Fear is irrational. Might be tough to erradicate that.

[sriracha john]

Fear Irrational fear is irrational. Might be tough to erradicate that.

** sentence corrected for accuracy **

It's a good idea, GuestHouse.

As a method of tracking things, it's long overdue.

[Tippaporn]

Fear Irrational fear is irrational. Might be tough to erradicate that.

** sentence corrected for accuracy **

It's a good idea, GuestHouse.

As a method of tracking things, it's long overdue.

I would have left my quote alone.

[wolf5370]

I agree. It makes sense to me.

We have no idea if things are getting worse (or better) or if crimes are becoming more/less violent or if certain areas are getting better/worse or...and so on.

Without statistics being taken, then it is always subjective. The scared are accused of being irrational. The irrational are fueling a 'them and us' mentality. etc. Any evidence could be useful to push for political pressure (possibly from Embassies or more likely by the press) for solutions and/or protection.

It seems to me this is beneficial to Thailand in either putting to rest irrational knee-jerk publicity or in prompting activity that shows its commitment to keeping her visitors safe.

I wonder if our Embassies keep such stats? They must do, surely.

GH, was you considering a 'reporting thread' here or keeping a private DB and publishing a report here or what?

[wolf5370]

Fear Irrational fear is irrational. Might be tough to erradicate that.

** sentence corrected for accuracy **

It's a good idea, GuestHouse.

As a method of tracking things, it's long overdue.

I would have left my quote alone.

I have a fear of jumping out of a plane without a parachute. Is this irrational?

[Tippaporn]

Tracking crime statistics is being currently done in many especially western countries. Does that increase safety there? No. What makes anyone think it will do so in Thailand?

[Tippaporn]

I have a fear of jumping out of a plane without a parachute. Is this irrational?

Is fear of death irrational? I'd say, yes.

[wolf5370]

He is not talking about Tracking crime statistics, he is talking about tracking crime statistics for attacks on foreigners. As Thailand has such a big investment in tourism, it also has a big investment in its image, and personal safety is a big part of that.

If stats show that Thailand has practically no violent crime against foreigners, and its just an unfortunate coincidence when two violent crimes against foreigners happen so close together and hit the world press. That there is no need to panic and avoid visiting etc, then its all to the good.

If, on the otherhand, it shows an alarming rise in violent crimes against foreigners, then Thailand can nip it in the bud to show the world it is safe. Of course, whether they do or not is up to the Thai Gov, but surely its still better than the reports we have seen hitting world press this year!

People visiting Thailand, may well see this site as they surf to see what's instore for them. Anything we can do to show the Gov where the issues are (if any at all) or to put the visitor's (potential visitor's) mind at ease, the better.

Letting sleeping dogs lie and pushing things under the carpet is often the way in LoS. So is knee-jerk reactions like the drug dealer clamp down. Evidence either way can help to make for informed decisions.

At worse, its ignored by all and sunder. So what's the harm?

[GuestHouse]

GH, was you considering a 'reporting thread' here or keeping a private DB and publishing a report here or what?

I hadn't considered how yet, but I on first thoughts I think a Database with defined entry rules and a two part check (Person entering data and person checking entry)

Perhaps:

Name of Victim

Alternative Name 1, (Necessary due to spelling errors in press)

Gender of Victim

Age of Victim

Nationality of Victim

Alternative Nationality of Victim (Necessary due to dual nationals and reporting errors)

Description of Attack (Defined Attack Types)

Date of Attack

Location of Attack

Nationality of Attacker

Gender of Attacker

Arrest Made

Conviction Secured

That sort of thing.

[sriracha john]

Fear Irrational fear is irrational. Might be tough to erradicate that.

** sentence corrected for accuracy **

It's a good idea, GuestHouse.

As a method of tracking things, it's long overdue.

I would have left my quote alone.

I have a fear of jumping out of a plane without a parachute. Is this irrational?

As noted, not all fear is irrational. Fear, in and of itself, has been responsible for the

self-preservation of our species in many instances.

[sriracha john]

Tracking crime statistics is being currently done in many especially western countries. Does that increase safety there? No. What makes anyone think it will do so in Thailand?

Do you have statistics to back up your hypothesis that keeping statistics on crime has no effect on the amount of crime being committed?

[wolf5370]

I have a fear of jumping out of a plane without a parachute. Is this irrational?

Is fear of death irrational? I'd say, yes.

GH, was you considering a 'reporting thread' here or keeping a private DB and publishing a report here or what?

I hadn't considered how yet, but I on first thoughts I think a Database with defined entry rules and a two part check (Person entering data and person checking entry)

Perhaps:

Name of Victim

Alternative Name 1, (Necessary due to spelling errors in press)

Gender of Victim

Age of Victim

Nationality of Victim

Alternative Nationality of Victim (Necessary due to dual nationals and reporting errors)

Description of Attack (Defined Attack Types)

Date of Attack

Location of Attack

Nationality of Attacker

Gender of Attacker

Arrest Made

Conviction Secured

That sort of thing.

A predefined scale as to violence would be usefull to (scale so trends and collection is easier than a description could be).

{0=non-violent, 1=threatening, 2=restrained, 3=affray/incidental/minor injury, 4=intended physical injury/assault, 5=assault with weopon, 6=beaten to death, 7=stabbed, 8=shot} for example

[GuestHouse]

I think the recording levels need to be consistant with the data that is openly reported.

ie

Robbery with a weapon

Robbery by drugging

Injury by gun attack

Injury by knife attack

Injury by other attack

Death by shooting attack

Death by knife attack

Death by other attack

Rape

Rape and murder

This removes errors that occur because a lot of attempted crime does not get reported.

[sriracha john]

Just to get the ball rolling... a 2 week-long sampling of just Pattaya, for example, reveals the following cases (yes, several cases involve foreigners themselves as the perpetrator, which is something else worth tracking, IMHO. Other reports involve accidental deaths, ALSO something worth tracking, IMHO.)

06-05-06

Body of an Estonian man recovered from the sea off Pattaya Beach.

Desperate German man attempts suicide in Naklua.

03-05-06

English man shot dead in, what appears to be, a random armed robbery in Pong sub-district.

01-05-06

53 Year Old French man arrested and accussed of sex with a 13 year old girl.

Armed robbery of an English owned house in Jomtien.

27-04-06

Pakistan man catches two men as they break into his apartment.

26-04-06

Two Germans arrested and deported back to Germany on charges of Drug trafficking.

25-04-06

Englishman’s throat cut as early morning run results in a demand for money from two men.

Bangkok Police shut down suspected pornographic webcam business in South Pattaya. German family is arrested.

24-04-06

Dramatic conclusion to the New Zealand murder case.

Swiss man killed in motorbike versus pick-up collision in Central Pattaya.

[English Noodles]

Would also be interesting to note if the victim was a long stay or holiday maker.

[Tippaporn]

Knock yourselves out, then.