Keeping Track Of Serious Crimes Against Foreigners

[jdinasia]

I Assume GH has a reason for all this .... I guess when he does or does not retire here it could be a factor ....

but frankly it would have to be measured against Violence in general and that would make it too large of an undertaking ... plus living here ... I just don't see the issue as that big.

[taxexile]

keeping thorough and accurate statistics on crime has to be a good thing .

patterns of crime over a period can be detected and then targeted by the police.

i'm not sure what the benefits will be of keeping informal statistics of crime against foriegners other than to confirm that which we already know. i.e. the rate is increasing and we need to be more careful out there.

i doubt though if the police here would actually act on any statistics presented to them.

[Sing_Sling]

I'm not sure how effective this would be, however, crime statistics are used by every police force to allocate resources = not sure why so many are against the idea. Where is the harm, especially if it could result in the police paying more attention to certain problem areas.

[jackr]

Btw I am not a Brit, Thai nor a tourist.

Then by default one would presume that you are foreign and judging by your patent dislike of the British, and your turn of phrase, I would imagine you are French

What pray tell was your reason for coming? Temples?

Nah, the guy's Swiss. Explains his love for everything French and German. While I've met some good Swiss people, there are some right arrogant a$$holes there too...BTW, about time you gave that gold back

Back OT, I don't think they'd be happy about keeping these statistics on crime against foreigners as it would really show them how bad it is and the potential damage to tourism etc.

ps - Wallalai, or is it Wally, find the nearest tree, bung a rope around your neck, if you can get it over yer head, and do us all a favour...<deleted>!

[sfokevin]

One should also include an analysis of deaths from "suicide"...

[Scott]

GH has a very good idea. There seem to be a lot of people out there that seem to be afraid of the truth! I have no idea if crimes are higher or lower than previously. I think they are now more violent than they used to be. Unless someone keeps track there is no way of knowing and knowledge is a good thing.

Knowing who and what is being done can only be helpful. We will know what places are safest for foreigners and which are least safe. This can help put pressure on the police to clean up crime. If an embassy posts a travel advisory about a particular area, you know the BIB will be quick to clean up the tarnished image.

Good suggestion Guest House.

[Namprik]

Nice idea! But you foreingers here dont seem to notice that crimes against foreingers has been around for decades.

If you wished to track all crimes against foreigners, then its impossible as most of these serious crimes against foreigners are against them who have no rights in Thailand. They are Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians labourers who have entered and working in the country illegally. Impossible to keep track. The newspapers have stories every week about the bodies of 'Burmese' looking coolies found in rivers. Impossible to track, as these foreigners carry little ID or anything at all.

Reaaly, crimes against foreigners dropped because of less strict measures in offering work visas etc.... More foreigners is now registered, so crime has dropped because these foreigners now have more rights to prosecute.

Or are you foreigners meaning western farangs? That seems more sense reading by what you have been saying.

[Sing_Sling]

Nice idea! But you foreingers here dont seem to notice that crimes against foreingers has been around for decades.

If you wished to track all crimes against foreigners, then its impossible as most of these serious crimes against foreigners are against them who have no rights in Thailand. They are Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians labourers who have entered and working in the country illegally. Impossible to keep track. The newspapers have stories every week about the bodies of 'Burmese' looking coolies found in rivers. Impossible to track, as these foreigners carry little ID or anything at all.

Reaaly, crimes against foreigners dropped because of less strict measures in offering work visas etc.... More foreigners is now registered, so crime has dropped because these foreigners now have more rights to prosecute.

Or are you foreigners meaning western farangs? That seems more sense reading by what you have been saying.

I think you know that the OP meant Caucasian or Westerner, posibly because the Laotians/Cambodians/Burmese don't mix iin the same circles as the guys on this forum - possibly by extension the implication is that the tourism industry is a mighty god argument for the authorities to pull their finger out.

Sadly you know as well as I do that the authorities here care very little about their own people and even less about their neighbours.

[tom yum goong]

It would be interesting to know if there is an increase in violent crimes against western foreigners, but i fail to see how you can gather any kind of accurate statistics on this?

If you can't all you would be left with is a load of hearsay and conjecture, which is not too different to what you have now.

For what its worth, I think there is probably an increase but this is probably proportional with the increase in number of western foreigners visiting and living in Thailand, as well as any increase in violent crime in Thailand in general.

[Mighty Mouse]

What happens to the report when a farang goes to the police station and reports a crime?

Is it entered into the computer? Maybe someone who has reported a crime can advise.

If it is, it would be similar to the systems the Western society police use. The data entry person (usually the police officer taking the report) selects the category, (assault, break and enter, stealing etc.) and all details are then entered under that category.

A report number is computer generated and given to the victim or person reporting the matter.

Any enquiry into statistics is as far away as a computer terminal.

I don't see the logic in farangs setting up their own statistical base for these matters.

Police use these statistics so that they can direct their resources accordingly. What good can farangs do with this knowledge?

[GuestHouse]

Any enquiry into statistics is as far away as a computer terminal.

I don't see the logic in farangs setting up their own statistical base for these matters.

The problem is - Who's computer terminal?

In which case the logic is that statistics gathered by the community are available to the community.

Not tucked away out of site and out of mind.

[udon]

Why do you need any record ? It's not your country, it's not your homeland, so, if you don't feel well here you can emigrate ?

Hmm, you sure know how to ingratiate yourself to members of this forum.

[Lucifer]

It would be easy to collect this kind of information.

It would take another 30 seconds extra to tick boxes with age, gender, race etc.

To "put the cat amangst the pigions" lets also have stats as to how much crime is commited by farangs.

[Mighty Mouse]

Any enquiry into statistics is as far away as a computer terminal.

I don't see the logic in farangs setting up their own statistical base for these matters.

The problem is - Who's computer terminal?

In which case the logic is that statistics gathered by the community are available to the community.

Not tucked away out of site and out of mind.

As far away as the police computer terminal. Police are the ones who are fully trained, paid to fight crime and enforce the law.

Are you trying to start your own vigilante group or are you just interested in statistics for the sake of looking at a page full of useless numbers?

Statistics aren't "tucked away out of site (sic) and out of mind," they are compiled for use by proper authorities. Farang ex-pats hardly qualify as Thailand's proper authorities.

[Sing_Sling]

Police are the ones who are fully trained, paid to fight crime and enforce the law.

Sorry, MM. Thai police, ahem, yes.

[Maejo Man]

Why do you need any record ? It's not your country, it's not your homeland, so, if you don't feel well here you can emigrate ?

Hmm, you sure know how to ingratiate yourself to members of this forum.

I wouldn't worry Udon, I think he just got a short "holiday" for a particularly nasty post (deleted)

...and now back to crime

[Donz]

Yes it would be a good idea, also they should do one on loud rude drunk farangs, i tend to get into arguements with them all the time.

[Donz]

Why do you need any record ? It's not your country, it's not your homeland, so, if you don't feel well here you can emigrate ?

Hmm, you sure know how to ingratiate yourself to members of this forum.

I wouldn't worry Udon, I think he just got a short "holiday" for a particularly nasty post (deleted)

...and now back to crime

arrrr yes ive been on a few of those holidays.

Probaly getting close to a long holiday shortly

[Phil Conners]

I agree with the OP - not that we have to start taking over the cops jobs, but it would be interesting to get more followup on the larger cases such as the cop who killed a young couple last year. What happened to him, is he in jail? For how long? Which jail? Any pictures? (as to make sure he's not just let off and and the case swiped under the carpet).

[GuestHouse]

Are you trying to start your own vigilante group or are you just interested in statistics for the sake of looking at a page full of useless numbers?

Let me make this clear - I have NO INTEREST IN FORMING ANY VIGILANTE GROUP I HAVE NO INTEREST IN VIGILANTE ACTION.

Statistics aren't "tucked away out of site (sic) and out of mind," they are compiled for use by proper authorities. Farang ex-pats hardly qualify as Thailand's proper authorities

No they are not, but they (we) are perhaps a little more interested in the statistics than the police are.

For example: Let us say (for arguments sake) that the statistics gathered by foreigners indicated a very low rate of crime against foreigners, a very high clear-up rate and a no year on year escalation of crime against foreigners. That might very well be used as ammunition in the frequent discussions we have on the subject "Is Thailand/Pattaya Safe" for farangs?"

Alternatively

Let us say (for arguments sake) that the statistics gathered by foreigners indicated, a high number of foreigners being attacked in Pattaya, a low clear-up rate and an year on year increase.

That might form the basis of a letter to the Authorities/Press (Politely) enquiring if more needs to done to protect a section (our section) of the local community.

Meanwhile.

I'm still curious as to why a number of TV members are so hostile to a suggestion that aims to quantify Crime against foreigners - What reason might they have for not wanting such an index to be made?

[Tippaporn]

Hope I didn't come across as being hostile, GH. I'm not. I simply think that it's a wasted effort overall for a lot of reasons. Everyone believes what they will but I'd contend that your personal safety is up to you to decide. Statistics don't play into mine and never will. What others choose is no business of mine since I'm not in a position to make choices for them. So, that leaves me to simply take care of just myself.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Tippaporn

[jdinasia]

OK ...

How do you manage this ..... How do you make it valid? what counts as a crime? <those reported in the paper? those reported annecdotaly<sp>?

Do you measure crime statistics for Thailand then sub-divide it by who is a foriegner and who are Thai? That way you can have an assertion for "Crimes against foriegners are rising at a rate greater than crime in general etc!"

GH ... are you going to move back here and visit the police stations to check daily crime blotters? Is this going to just be in Pattaya? are you going to coordinate with the Tourist police and local police etc!?!

[Chang_paarp]

For it to remotely relevant you will have to have some other data, otherwise you will just have a list of crimes.

For there to be more crimes you have to specify more than when. So is there some baseline data?

Is it more dangerous now or have there been more idiots getting off the planes showing off their wealth? Or more unlucky people? If we are to believe TAT tourism to LOS is growing at some phenominal rate. So obviously there will be more people on the ground to have a crime committed against them. What percentage of these people have a crime committed against them?

eg If there are are 1,000 falang in the country and they collectivly represent over a month, 1 wallet theft, 1 assault, 1 drugging, and a broken bone. Is that a bad night out or 5 incidents. Then 1 year later there are 10,000 falang in the country that month and there are 3 wallet thefts, 4 assaults, and 10 broken bones, is this worst because the numbers are higher or is it better because the % are lower? You will read more incidents in the paper and as such feel less safe, but is it less safe?

It is hard to make it relevant to all.

I do like the idea of the follow up, but that is not pasive statistic keeping.

[taxexile]

if you are talking about serious crimes , i.e. those involving some degree of violence , then wouldnt the relevant embassy be informed and thus have the information.

this information would be in the public domain and therefore accessible to any data gatherers.

[Tippaporn]

And then sort out the victims, too. How many are more prone to misadventure due to their own stupidity? Are they destined to get into some sort of jam no matter where they are at?

So many variables apply, which is the inherent problem with most statistics, IMHO. You can conclude just about anything you'd like. And if you're trying to use them to make a point it's easy to include your own bias so that the results agree with your hypothesis.

[GuestHouse]

Once again I see we have what I call the “Blank Sheet of Paper Syndrome”

Place a blank sheet of paper on a table in front of a group of people and they will stare at it all day long without comment.

Put an idea on the paper and the same group of people will spend hours knocking holes in it.

_____

But we have some Aye Sayers and that's a start.

[Tippaporn]

Depends on the idea and it depends on the ideas of the people considering your idea. You've had quite a few posters here agree with you that it's a good idea, GH. But you'll never get everyone to agree with you. Those that don't point out the holes. Eveyone has different beliefs, and therefore different perspectives. Which is a good thing. So, no, I wouldn't agree that this is reflective of the "Blank Sheet of Paper Syndrome." Besides, what's there to comment about a blank sheet of paper?????

Edited May 8, 2006 by Tippaporn

[Douggie Style]

I think it is a really great idea, the more info & detail the better.

Example, there was a thread recently about a chap who got his drink spiked, it these attacks were all logged, any regular patterns would show up (ie if it is particular bars, locations & so on) this may help the rest from falling into the same trap.

Not only that, the statistics could be used for lobbying in all sorts of ways.

Go for it, idea of the month award!

[Tippaporn]

5555555555555555! You've got yourself a recruit, GH.

[Douggie Style]

Recruit Maxwell Smart