Uncertainty of retirement extension even requirements are OK ?

[Jip99]

With regards to the certified income from abroad:

1. Foreign Embassy's usually don't require supporting documentation. They usually require just an sworn testimony of oath that the information provided about income amount is true.

Not so. The British Embassy, for example, require documentary proof before issuing income verification letters.

Has the OP considered using the 65K baht per month income requirement retirement extension method based on a letter from the German Embassy in Bangkok regarding "Verification of Income and pensions" which requires "b) sufficient proof of the amount of monthly income" which may be sufficiently demonstrated via a transfer between accounts in Switzerland?

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/contentblob/3247334/Daten/3617789/RentenEinkommensbescheinigung.pdf

Don't think that this is likely to be a starter in the OP's case, in the short term at least. He has stated that he won't start receiving a pension for another 7 years (and a small one at that). And, as Lite Beer has advised in post #6, his mother wouldn't be subject to any financial requirements as his dependant. Just as well since her income appears to be derived from 3 countries - which would presumably mean separate income verification letters from each of the 3 embassies in question!

The requirement is to evidence income to your own embassy (normally).

There would be no need to seek verification letters from 3 different countries - just satisfactory evidence of that income to keep your embassy happy.

[moogradod]

Thanks again - only one minor discrepancy here because some say a. some say b.

1. The 800K in the bank - may it be

a. fixed asset or must it be a

b. savings account ?

If a. then I could have a second account in Thailand to which some money is transferred from my wifes account abroad to be prepared for the "what you live on" question. Very good.

If b. then I need only one account for the 800K with the transfers from my wife coming in and let the balance not drop below 800K. Here goes part of my interest. But this is actually more transparent and easy. And it eliminates the probable risk that at any time anybody will say: It has to be a savings account......I guess it will be b)for me - although that will "cost" me around 2'000 B.p.m. (Baht per month)

Now a highly political and topical one:

Does my wife need to pay taxes in Thailand for the interest generated in her account abroad which will be transferred to MY account in Thailand ?

I try to sum it up:

1) Laos is not an option for plan b

2) If I extend on basis of retirement my mother may extend as a dependend - therefore no need for money in the bank or income for her (altough this would be no problem - just simplifies things)

- Sorry one more question comes to mind then: If I get the O-A, does it suffice for her to get the non-immi-O for the first time entering thailand and she may then extend as a dependent after 3

months ? This would be the optimum, but it must be a sure thing

- I hope that in the case that I pass out before her (heartattack because of retirement planning or so) she may then change the dependent visa to retirement - I take this for granted

3) If I ever needed to show proof of income to rule out the suspicion of me working then it does not matter from where this income is. It may even not come from abroad but from Thailand (I believe that is refreshingly reasonable).

4) There is an increased risk that regulations may change at times, but there is a good chance that those might be handled then. We are flexible.

5) The 800K need to be in the account 2 month prior to the first application for extension (3 months for subsequent ones). Can't be 3 months for the first time because an non-immi-O gives you only 90 days.

6) The 65K method is less secure for me because the income is from investments - it may vary. My pensions kicks in only some years later.

Thank you so much. My questions in the visa section will be answered with this topic. Maybe you may at last comment on the 3 questions above (account, tax, dependency). I will ask further questions in the other sections. There are some more...

And I learned: I may be arrested if playing guitar in public (not because of my playing but because of the missing work permit)

Edited November 29, 2013 by moogradod

[thailiketoo]

I have gotten retirement extensions one year each for over 10 years. No changes. I have used fixed deposit accounts and savings accounts with no problems as I have always had both. I received extensions at 4 different immigration offices. Never any bribes asked or offered. Normally including 90 day address notifications I spend about 1 hour per year in an Immigration office. BTW they call the immigration domo. Just tell the driver, "by domo cup."

[DrTuner]

If I get the O-A, does it suffice for her to get the non-immi-O for the first time entering thailand and she may then extend as a dependent after 3 months ?

The section 2.20 from http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf refers there to 2.22, the retirement extension. If you read the immigration order literally one would have to have the retirement extension already before the dependent may apply.

It's a good question. If indeed you must have the extension granted under 2.22 before the dependent may apply, then the question becomes how soon can you apply for the extension. Obviously there's the account requirement of two months (60days) , but O-A gives you a one year stamp on the border, right ? Will the immigration let you apply for extension before that one year stamp is about to expire ?

Edited November 29, 2013 by DrTuner

[ubonjoe]

You can have the 800k baht in a fixed term account but it has to be one that you can take money out of at any time with only a loss of interest.

Your mother would not be able to get a dependent extension if you got a OA visa from a embassy.

I wouldn't worry about any major changes. The last time the financial requirements changed (2003 I think) was mostly an adjustment for the devaluation of the baht in1997 when the baht was in the range 40 to 42 baht to the dollar compared to 25 in 1997.

[moogradod]

If I get the O-A, does it suffice for her to get the non-immi-O for the first time entering thailand and she may then extend as a dependent after 3 months ?

The section 2.20 from http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf refers there to 2.22, the retirement extension. If you read the immigration order literally one would have to have the retirement extension already before the dependent may apply.

It's a good question. If indeed you must have the extension granted under 2.22 before the dependent may apply, then the question becomes how soon can you apply for the extension. Obviously there's the account requirement of two months (60days) , but O-A gives you a one year stamp on the border, right ? Will the immigration let you apply for extension before that one year stamp is about to expire ?

OHA ! Was it too good to be true ?

Scenario 1: My mother and me will enter Thailand on the same day both with an O-A visa. First extension (2nd year) then based on reentering the country. Can she then only apply for the second extension (3rd year) as a dependent when I got the extension on retirement already ? Is this possible then in terms of the timelines (reentering the country after the first year would be done together of course).

Scenario 2: Same as Scenario 1 but based on an non-immi-O. When may my mother apply for a dependent extension and what is the procedure then ? We will enter the country together.

Must not go wrong or I have to forget the "dependent" option, which would be a real pity.

Edited November 29, 2013 by moogradod

[thailiketoo]

You get the first retirement OA visa in home country and then a year later an extension. So why do you have to enter the country for 2nd year?

Edited November 29, 2013 by thailiketoo

[DrTuner]

Scenario 1: My mother and me will enter Thailand on the same day both with an O-A visa. First extension (2nd year) then based on reentering the country. Can she then only apply for the second extension (3rd year) as a dependent when I got the extension on retirement already ? Is this possible then in terms of the timelines (reentering the country after the first year would be done together of course).

How about you do the visa run a bit earlier than you mom, say about one month, then your permission to stay would expire sooner and you'd be able to apply for the extension before your mom. Your mom would still have time on her stamp. When your extension is clear, mom applies as dependent. If that bombs, there's additional time to figure out another way to get an extension. You can go on the visa run with her, just don't cross the border, wait on Thai side.

[BB1950]

1. You don't reenter the country to get an extension! In fact, if you exit Thailand without a reentry permit your current Visa and all extensions to it are terminated! You start again from square one! You apply for extensions from within Thailand. I've been getting extensions to a Visa for over 10 years without ever leaving the country!

You usually apply for an extension within 30 days to 15 days before the exit date, in case of problems with your paperwork. When you get the extension the exit date will be on the same day and month as the original Visa, one year later.

The money in the savings account you use for applying doesn't need to be kept above 800,000 baht. It only needs to be 800,000 baht or more 90 days before you apply, if you only use the money in the bank for income verification. People I know keep their money in an high interest account, then transfer their money to the savings account at least 90 days before they apply. Once they get the extension they transfer the money back to a high interest account.

I seriously doubt that you will ever be asked, "What you live on?", if you meet the requirements.

Edited November 29, 2013 by BB1950

[DrTuner]

I believe the OP meant to do a visa run just before the expiration date of the multi-entry O-A visa, which would give him almost 2 years out of it. Milk all out of the visa. After that, extensions.

[ubonjoe]

You get the first retirement OA visa in home country and then a year later an extension.  So why do you have to enter the country for 2nd year?

All OA visa are multiple entry visas valid for one year now. Every time you enter the country for the first year you get a one year stay. Meaning if you do an entry just before the visa expires you get another year and an extension after that year.

You do have to get a re-entry permit to keep the one permit to stay valid after the visa expires.

[thailiketoo]

You get the first retirement OA visa in home country and then a year later an extension. So why do you have to enter the country for 2nd year?

All OA visa are multiple entry visas valid for one year now. Every time you enter the country for the first year you get a one year stay. Meaning if you do an entry just before the visa expires you get another year and an extension after that year.

You do have to get a re-entry permit to keep the one permit to stay valid after the visa expires.

I understand that but why wouldn't the OP get a one year extension based on retirement from in the country for his 2nd year? The OP wrote, "First extension (2nd year) then based on reentering the country." Why not get a retirement O-A in the home country and an extension for the 2nd year in Thailand; why base it on reentering the country for the 2nd year?

Unless I'm missing something, one gets a retirement O-A in the home country and just comes to

Thailand and gets an extension every year. You don't have to ever leave the Thailand unless you want to.

[ubonjoe]

The way your post was written it appeared to me you were unaware that OA visas are issued as a multiple entry visa.

Most people that have a OA visa want to get the full use of it so they do an entry just before the visa expires rather than doing an extension. Also unless they stayed in the country for the entire first year they would have a permit to stay valid longer than the visas and would not be able to do an extension until that date.

[thailiketoo]

The way your post was written it appeared to me you were unaware that OA visas are issued as a multiple entry visa. Most people that have a OA visa want to get the full use of it so they do an entry just before the visa expires rather than doing an extension. Also unless they stayed in the country for the entire first year they would have a permit to stay valid longer than the visas and would not be able to do an extension until that date.

You're right I was. I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country. I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic.

[ubonjoe]

The way your post was written it appeared to me you were unaware that OA visas are issued as a multiple entry visa. Most people that have a OA visa want to get the full use of it so they do an entry just before the visa expires rather than doing an extension. Also unless they stayed in the country for the entire first year they would have a permit to stay valid longer than the visas and would not be able to do an extension until that date.

You're right I was. I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country. I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic.

I suspect you didn't have a OA visa. You had a non-o and did an extension of stay here.

Honorary consulates do not do OA visas now. A few years ago Houston and Honolulu could do them but that is no longer the case.

[thailiketoo]

The way your post was written it appeared to me you were unaware that OA visas are issued as a multiple entry visa. Most people that have a OA visa want to get the full use of it so they do an entry just before the visa expires rather than doing an extension. Also unless they stayed in the country for the entire first year they would have a permit to stay valid longer than the visas and would not be able to do an extension until that date.

You're right I was. I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country. I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic.

I suspect you didn't have a OA visa. You had a non-o and did an extension of stay here.

Honorary consulates do not do OA visas now. A few years ago Houston and Honolulu could do them but that is no longer the case.

What's this?

[Sceptict11]

The way your post was written it appeared to me you were unaware that OA visas are issued as a multiple entry visa. Most people that have a OA visa want to get the full use of it so they do an entry just before the visa expires rather than doing an extension. Also unless they stayed in the country for the entire first year they would have a permit to stay valid longer than the visas and would not be able to do an extension until that date.

You're right I was. I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country. I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic.

I suspect you didn't have a OA visa. You had a non-o and did an extension of stay here.

Honorary consulates do not do OA visas now. A few years ago Houston and Honolulu could do them but that is no longer the case.

What's this?

Looks like a long expired OA visa !

It is of no use ! If the holder of this passport is still in Thailand legally they must by now be on an extension of stay .............not a visa !

[ubonjoe]

 

 

The way your post was written it appeared to me you were unaware that OA visas are issued as a multiple entry visa. Most people that have a OA visa want to get the full use of it so they do an entry just before the visa expires rather than doing an extension. Also unless they stayed in the country for the entire first year they would have a permit to stay valid longer than the visas and would not be able to do an extension until that date.

 

You're right I was.  I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country.  I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic. 

 

I suspect you didn't have a OA visa. You had a non-o and did an extension of stay here.

Honorary consulates do not do OA visas now. A few years ago Houston and Honolulu could do them but that is no longer the case.

 

What's this?

 

But you said that you did an extension and did not leave for a year. I now assume you did it after your 1 year entry.

But that was in 2005 when you did the visa. It is not the same now. Only the embassy in DC and the 3 official consulate do the OA now.

[thailiketoo]

You're right I was. I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country. I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic.

I suspect you didn't have a OA visa. You had a non-o and did an extension of stay here.

Honorary consulates do not do OA visas now. A few years ago Houston and Honolulu could do them but that is no longer the case.

What's this?

Looks like a long expired OA visa !

It is of no use ! If the holder of this passport is still in Thailand legally they must by now be on an extension of stay .............not a visa !

Ya that's what I did.

Are you following the posts? I wrote, "I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country. I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic."

Ubonjoe, wrote, " I suspect you didn't have a OA visa." So I sent him a photo of my O-A retirement visa.

I sent all the retirement stuff by mail to an honorary consulate in the US and they sent me back what is stamped on my passport. I then went to Thailand and a year later got an extension never leaving the country for 1900 baht.

[DrTuner]

Thailiketoo, so you did your first extension in 2006 ? That's seven years ago, not ten.

[thailiketoo]

Thailiketoo, so you did your first extension in 2006 ? That's seven years ago, not ten.

No. First you wrote, "In Thailand there is no absolute certainty. There may be an immigration police order out of the blue changing all the rules and old rules may be "grandfathered" or not. Living in uncertainty is part of living in Thailand on temporary extensions of stay. A new government, new head of immigration, new rules. Happens at least once in a decade." And that is not true, except in the sense that the sky may fall or the sun might stop shining. Now you ask me a question that you could not possibly know the answer to having to do with my visa status in Thailand and when I started coming here in an attempt to cast further negative aspersions on a painless, easy process.

So I'll sum it up. It is easy to get a retirement visa (or whatever you want to call what kind of visa people get when they ask for a retirement visa) and it has been easy in my experience for the last ten years. I started coming to Thailand when I was 22 and I retired in Thailand after I was 55.

If you want to try and scare people away that is of course your option. In life there will always be people like chanting the sky is falling.

Edited November 30, 2013 by thailiketoo

[DrTuner]

Was just measuring how big a grain of salt I need to take when reading your comments. I've settled on a tablespoon.

[thailiketoo]

Was just measuring how big a grain of salt I need to take when reading your comments. I've settled on a tablespoon.

If you have anything factual to contribute pro or con about my experiences getting a retirement visa feel free to do so. I live in Thailand and even posted my Visa trying to be helpful to a fellow poster. You have posted nothing but negative innuendo and flames directed at me, Why don't you admit it? You are trying to scare people from coming to Thailand by telling scarey what if scenarios about getting a visa.

You wrote, "There may be an immigration police order out of the blue changing all the rules." and "Living in uncertainty is part of living in Thailand." and "A new government, new head of immigration, new rules. Happens at least once in a decade."

If that is not trying to scare people off I don't know what is.

Edited November 30, 2013 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

You're right I was. I paid the 1900 baht for my first extension and did not leave the country. I found the visa process from an honorary consulate in the States easy to get and did the whole process by express mail except the doctors office which only took a couple of minutes at a walk in clinic.

I suspect you didn't have a OA visa. You had a non-o and did an extension of stay here.

Honorary consulates do not do OA visas now. A few years ago Houston and Honolulu could do them but that is no longer the case.

What's this?

But you said that you did an extension and did not leave for a year. I now assume you did it after your 1 year entry.

But that was in 2005 when you did the visa. It is not the same now. Only the embassy in DC and the 3 official consulate do the OA now.

I checked with the website of the honorary consulate in Florida and found this.

Please note that Long Stay “O-A” (Retirement) visas cannot be processed at the Royal Thai Consulate General in Miami.

These visas must be submitted to the Royal Thai Embassy in Washington, D.C. or the Royal Thai Consulates in New York, Los Angeles or Chicago for processing.

I don't know how long it takes for the above “O-A” (Retirement) visas from those. When I did it by express mail it took two weeks.

[Jingthing]

Was just measuring how big a grain of salt I need to take when reading your comments. I've settled on a tablespoon.

If you have anything factual to contribute pro or con about my experiences getting a retirement visa feel free to do so. I live in Thailand and even posted my Visa trying to be helpful to a fellow poster. You have posted nothing but negative innuendo and flames directed at me, Why don't you admit it? You are trying to scare people from coming to Thailand by telling scarey what if scenarios about getting a visa.

You wrote, "There may be an immigration police order out of the blue changing all the rules." and "Living in uncertainty is part of living in Thailand." and "A new government, new head of immigration, new rules. Happens at least once in a decade."

If that is not trying to scare people off I don't know what is.

The actual truth lies somewhere in the middle of total paranoia and the illusion of perfect security.

[Sceptict11]

Jingthing .................Well said

[thailiketoo]

Was just measuring how big a grain of salt I need to take when reading your comments. I've settled on a tablespoon.

If you have anything factual to contribute pro or con about my experiences getting a retirement visa feel free to do so. I live in Thailand and even posted my Visa trying to be helpful to a fellow poster. You have posted nothing but negative innuendo and flames directed at me, Why don't you admit it? You are trying to scare people from coming to Thailand by telling scarey what if scenarios about getting a visa.

You wrote, "There may be an immigration police order out of the blue changing all the rules." and "Living in uncertainty is part of living in Thailand." and "A new government, new head of immigration, new rules. Happens at least once in a decade."

If that is not trying to scare people off I don't know what is.

The actual truth lies somewhere in the middle of total paranoia and the illusion of perfect security.

Apply 30 days in advance. Have your paperwork in order. If there is a problem fix it. There is always a way to fix it. That is the Thai advantage. In the West one does not have the Thai advantage most times and in most places. New guys are always impressed by stories from the old hands how things are so fraught with danger and uncertainty. Tens of thousands of expats are retired in Thailand. How many problems do they have when renewing a retirement extension when the paperwork is in order?

I have never heard of one out of the thousands done each year. Ask one of the old hands to tell you about them having a problem when everything was in order. Go ahead and post personal experiences where you had a problem getting an extension when everything was done right.

The only time I have ever heard of a person having a problem when all the paperwork right was a guy I knew who got run over by a bus on the way to immigration. In that case it is not perfect security.

Edited November 30, 2013 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

Never say never. My mistake. Today I read about a Brit who had all of his paperwork in order and immigration had a problem with his income letter from the British embassy. He got the extension but had some problems.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/685676-i-had-my-british-embassy-income-letter-rejected-by-immigration-for-my-annual-extension-of-stay-ban/

Edited December 1, 2013 by thailiketoo

[moogradod]

I believe the OP meant to do a visa run just before the expiration date of the multi-entry O-A visa, which would give him almost 2 years out of it. Milk all out of the visa. After that, extensions.

Yes - I meant exactly that.

Concerning the question of dependent now:

1. Suppose I am on a O-A and my mother is on a non-immi-O. I understood that then she cannot extend on basis of dependency after the 90 days that the non-immi-O gives her.

2.If she is as well on a O-A we might do the first "visa run" together, giving us both nearly two 2 years. But I would extend 3 months before the 2nd period will expire, and she would file the extension based on dependency one week later. She would then get an extension of probably 1 year minus 1 week since she may not be longer dependent then I do have permission to stay.

In case that this would be rejected, she would then have time to transfer 800K from abroad in an account to sit there 2 month before she would apply again for extension based on retirement.

And then the whole procedure again the next time ! Open as well: Will dependency be granted just like this, only show evidence of mother-son relationship ?

After all 2 X non-immi-O and 2 X retirement extension seem to be the easiest thing for us.

To get an O-A, requirements are already tough enough. I doubt that a honorary consulate will issue one. At least not in Switzerland. The home page of even the embassy does not mention that possibility of O-A.

One question is still open: If my wife has some investments abroad and the money will be transferred to my account in Thailand (that will be part of the money we will live on) would she then have to pay taxes in Thailand ? Would she ever be approached with that question at all since she is a housewife ? I believe I would'nt, exept maybe for interst gained from my account in Thailand, but it seems that I may redeem the tax.

[ubonjoe]

There will be absolutely no problem getting your mother a dependent extension. You could apply for hers at the same time you do yours. Just show your birth certificate is all that is needed.

Info on taxes here: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html