Communism, I have heard of it.

[puukao]

com·mu·nism (kmy-nzm)

n.

1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

2. Communism

a. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

b. The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

The Communist Party of Thailand - CPT (Thai: พรรคคอมมิวนิสต์แห่งประเทศไทย, abbreviated พคท.) was a Marxist-Leninist political party in Thailand active from 1942 until the 1990s

OK, now here is my "educated" ramblings. From USSR to China to Central America, Cuba, etc.....I can see how the poor want a better life. more land, more money, less repression, more rights, etc.. I can see how they blame the government after the government uses them to make their country more powerful and they don't see the fruits of their labor. If the poor revolts, just say Communist and the CIA and America will help you get rid of such horrible people. rich supports the rich. pacify the poor but make sure they spent lots of money. control the media. i get it.

maybe if the USSR didn't go communist they could never have defeated Germany. But at a cost of 40+ million lives? Mao and the Great Leap Forward was insane, but the country received tons of money for all the bad goods they produced. but at the cost of 40 million lives?

Thailand. possibly another civil war over the same issues. The difference is that America has not labeled Thailand Communist. They labeled Nicaragua, Cuba, El Salvador, Hondoras, and Guatemala all Communists at one point, and that is the end game. But I can see the media show Red and say Communist. Spin the media over and over.....I know a little bit about the rice scheme, but unsure the long-term political ramifications.

I should also include Indonesia and how Suharto got into power. Vietnam, of course. Laos, of course.

Anyhow, I am sure many of you have great thoughts on the subject. Thanks in advance for sharing.

Edited December 1, 2013 by puukao

[WitawatWatawit]

Oh yes, the Thai form of communism is rampant - "Darling, what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." The perfect economic system.

[willyumiii]

Oh yes, the Thai form of communism is rampant - "Darling, what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." The perfect economic system.

Yes! that's it!

The people in my village never steal anything!

They just see something they need or want and then they take it!

What's mine is theirs!

Now I understand!

Thank you!

[willyumiii]

Communism, in theory, is a very good system.

Unfortunately, in practice it has a very poor track record.

Democracy practiced in a republic like the U.S.A is not a lot better.

The rich get richer and the rest get screwed.

Has there ever been a government that was good for all of those governed?

[h90]

There are a lot different flavors of communism but in general it is a kind idea that doesn't work.

State controlled economic isn't flexible and fast enough.

If everyone earns the same and can't own any business they don't try hard (in soviet, they gave west products for the staff working on important projects for motivation).

Only the human greed motivates.

There are some watered down version that do work. Higher taxes for the rich and with this money you make every education free, after a few decades everyone get more money. But everything gets easily overstaffed and lazy.

On the other hand in small communities it does work....small towns that are farming together and share the money, because they motivate the lazy ones and people still feel their output in their wallet.

[h90]

Communism, in theory, is a very good system.

Unfortunately, in practice it has a very poor track record.

Democracy practiced in a republic like the U.S.A is not a lot better.

The rich get richer and the rest get screwed.

Has there ever been a government that was good for all of those governed?

The problem is large structures as bigger as worse things work.

In a 1000 people town it both works to select their brightest in a democracy as well communism and sharing things work.

With 10+ Million it doesn't work anymore.

[Bluetongue]

Well ranked in order from bottom to top, you could probably go Anarchy/Chaos such as Somalia, Communism such as Vietnam ranked equally as Democracy such as America

But is the OP in an effort to keep it relevant to Thailand trying to say that the Red Shirts are communist because of the colour, is that the level of his understanding. Otherwise what is this about?

[mgjackson69]

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is not bad as an ideal. It has little to do with true human nature.

I started developing a simple example, but it quickly became complex. Suffice to say:

- Some will produce to the best of their ability, so long as their basic needs are met.

-Some will not produce anything beyond meeting their own needs, unless they are rewarded

for producing extra.

-Some who are capable of producing will produce nothing, and let the rest produce for them

to provide their basic needs.

- Some in all three groups will aspire to 'need' extra in order to acquire more

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[corkythecat]

I understand that the Kibbutz system in Israel works .well, mainly because the members all Want to be in. I worked with a guy from one, ln a high tech project. In Hongkong

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[Jasun]

There seems to a perception that the 'reds' are some kind of north eastern commy farming lobby. The reality is the PTP carried a number of central provinces including Samut Prakan, Nonthaburi, Nakhom Pathom, Pathum Thani, Ayutthaya, Ang Thong and Sara Buri.

[willyumiii]

Communism, in theory, is a very good system.

Unfortunately, in practice it has a very poor track record.

Democracy practiced in a republic like the U.S.A is not a lot better.

The rich get richer and the rest get screwed.

Has there ever been a government that was good for all of those governed?

The problem is large structures as bigger as worse things work.

In a 1000 people town it both works to select their brightest in a democracy as well communism and sharing things work.

With 10+ Million it doesn't work anymore.

I agree 100%.

That is why the USA is a republic.

A democracy only works on a very small scale!

With more people you need to elect representatives to vote for you.

But once elected they can vote any way they chose.

And very often those elected do not vote the way you want them to.

It really does not work well!

[mgjackson69]

A true democracy will only work for a very small population. As we become more and more electronically connect it would be possible to have a true democracy with the populace directly voting on every bill.

In practice this would give the 'special interests' even more influence. Instead of buying representatives and advertisements to influence constituents to call their representatives, now the special interests could target voters directly via mass media, tailoring the message to each particular bill. It would be "all political ads, all the time" on television and radio.

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[puukao]

I think words like communism, socialism, republic, etc.... are all incorrectly used. we all know presidents can override congress, and democracy failing due to corruption. communism is a horrible theory, i think, and that is why it has never worked. it's simply a lie to get people motivated in the short-term, with horrible side effects.

red shirts. sure, they are more liberal and "democratic" than the government, and likely has less political power, money, and ability to get other powerful countries on their side. so, i think others might label them communists, in order to gather sympathy for the yellow shirts.

instead of being de-centralized, the red shirts should try to become more of a "government". add credibility, maybe shed the thought of communism, and gather more sympathy.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

On the other hand in small communities it does work....small towns that are farming together and share the money, because they motivate the lazy ones and people still feel their output in their wallet.

Actually it doesn't work in small communities or large.

When the first settlers went to America from Europe, they thought this would be a good idea so they developed community storehouses so that everyone contributed and everyone shared. As should have been predicted, many then saw no need to work and produce, and that next winter they nearly starved to death.

They quickly abandoned that system and required each to produce and keep the fruits of his own labor. Work or starve solved the problem.

Today most developed countries have a mixture of that where "the poor" have "entitlements" and again it is breaking the governments. Too many people learn how to milk the system.

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” — Thomas Jefferson (One of the Founding Fathers of the US.)

[bifftastic]

I think words like communism, socialism, republic, etc.... are all incorrectly used. we all know presidents can override congress, and democracy failing due to corruption. communism is a horrible theory, i think, and that is why it has never worked. it's simply a lie to get people motivated in the short-term, with horrible side effects.

red shirts. sure, they are more liberal and "democratic" than the government, and likely has less political power, money, and ability to get other powerful countries on their side. so, i think others might label them communists, in order to gather sympathy for the yellow shirts.

instead of being de-centralized, the red shirts should try to become more of a "government". add credibility, maybe shed the thought of communism, and gather more sympathy.

yes, the word communism is often used incorrectly. In this instance, you have used it to describe the red shirts.

I suspect the shirt colour has thrown you off slightly, well, more than slightly!

red shirts. sure, they are more liberal and "democratic" than the government

instead of being de-centralized, the red shirts should try to become more of a "government"

Ermm, you are aware that the government, currently, is the PTP government? The one that the reds voted in? It's a red government.

Not a very effective one at the moment, but it is still the government. You get that, right?

[MrHammer]

Thailand is under no risk of becoming communist if that's what you're afraid off. Thailand is a feudal society. The red vs yellow is more akin to the French Revolution than the Bolsjevik one. It's new money symbolized by the Shinawatras against the 'born priviliedge' class of nobility, military and other public corrupt officials.

As always the herd are used as pawns for the smaller elite.

There is no such thing as an equal society. In communist countries, the inner party, the high ranking officials, live a life in tremendous luxury, while the majority live a sad, poor life. In so called democratic welfare states, eventually the political class of union members and public bureaucrats manage to bribe enough people to dictate the lives of those working in the private sector.

There is only one rule and that is that all people want power, yet some prefer to take the high horse and claim things like social justice, evil capitalists to be used for their own gain.

People are not equal, some are good at making money, others at charming women. The first, skill at making money, is generally frowned upon, while those good at charming women are congratulated. I could add being good at sport or music. Should we scar the beautiful, puncture the eardrums of the musical? Cut of the foot of the athletic?

Why is it only applied intelligence in making money that society things should be equal? I want to be a professional athlete, to be able to play the guitar like a rockstar, to be as charming with women as Hugh Heffner. Why no push to make these things equal? I'd take great success with women over wealth any day of the week.

To wrap this up, I quite like the Thai form of societal structure. There is shared culture, shared purpose even through sometimes basic nationalism. Does the average Thai not have much more freedom in this unequal society than in our own equal countries?

I will take a benevolent dictator over a democracy of jealous fools.

[AlexRRR]

Everything starts and ends with GREED a human defect, looking around at political models we the masses shake our heads in disbelief that we are were we are now.

All political systems can work well but for greed.

[Mrjlh]

You do realize that Red Shirt leader Jutaporn Prompan, was the Thai Youth Communist Party leader at one time many years ago? And if you were to attend any of the Red Shirt gatherings you will see the "Red Star" dominantly displayed on many of the items they have for sale. If you have figured it out yet, the "Red Star" is a symbol of the Chinese Communist Party. Thai's seems to fall for "symbols" easily and may not know the connection. Then again maybe they do. Hence, red shirts.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Mrjlh

[canuckamuck]

This being a feudal society with a very large lower class and a growing but still small middle class. The fuel for the fire is available. Historically all feudal systems end eventually (actually all systems end eventually). That being said. Thailand has had great success and longevity with their model (they should be proud of that). Probably because it has integrated a democratic system to give an illusion of power to the common man. recently the democratic part of the program has become a bit of a handful because it has given a taste of actual power to the common man.

Now the feudalists are desperate to put the genie back in the bottle, but it may be too late. This is why there are suggestions of having a non-elected council for government. The common man has discovered power in numbers. Power they have always had, but did not have the vision or the organizational skills to use it.

What direction the common man may go with their new power is anyone's guess. They have no yet encountered the charismatic revolutionary to play pied piper. Thaksin may have the ear of the majority, but he is no true revolutionary. He likes the system, he just wants to control it.

It is possible IMO that someone my rise from the ranks of the common people, and steer them into a new political construct. hopefully it would not be communism, or the french revolution. Situations like this are exactly what communism is built for. To destroy one system and replace it with it a new and even more brutal one, just with new leaders and without the middle class. The transition to communism is usually accompanied with a massive death toll and an economy 50 years behind.

What would be best for Thailand would be a gradual evolution into a stable democratic platform with freedom of the press. and an emphasis on quality education for all. My wish is that Thailand will find it's way through, with an eye to how wonderful and free this country really is. If they can appreciate what they have, they might strive to preserve it.

What this country lacks is the patience to allow the democratic process to work and the integrity to wipe out corruption at every level.

You can't expect your government to be virtuous when you took their bribe for your vote.

[canman]

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is not bad as an ideal. It has little to do with true human nature.

I started developing a simple example, but it quickly became complex. Suffice to say:

- Some will produce to the best of their ability, so long as their basic needs are met.

-Some will not produce anything beyond meeting their own needs, unless they are rewarded

for producing extra.

-Some who are capable of producing will produce nothing, and let the rest produce for them

to provide their basic needs.

- Some in all three groups will aspire to 'need' extra in order to acquire more

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

A good demonstartion here of how a socialist / communist system works in real life:

From: http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/does-socialism-work-a-classroom-experiment/

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for dollars – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

[MrHammer]

Now the feudalists are desperate to put the genie back in the bottle, but it may be too late. This is why there are suggestions of having a non-elected council for government. The common man has discovered power in numbers. Power they have always had, but did not have the vision or the organizational skills to use it.

And that is how all democracies fail. Once the majority figure out they can vote themselves to the money of others, it's gone and done, the society is on decline towards poverty and tyranny. The idea of an unelected council of nobles is not such a horrible idea as it may seem. There need to be curtails on mob mentality.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is not bad as an ideal. It has little to do with true human nature.

I started developing a simple example, but it quickly became complex. Suffice to say:

- Some will produce to the best of their ability, so long as their basic needs are met.

-Some will not produce anything beyond meeting their own needs, unless they are rewarded

for producing extra.

-Some who are capable of producing will produce nothing, and let the rest produce for them

to provide their basic needs.

- Some in all three groups will aspire to 'need' extra in order to acquire more

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

A good demonstartion here of how a socialist / communist system works in real life:

From: http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/does-socialism-work-a-classroom-experiment/

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for dollars – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

Great example, this should be mandatory in all high schools and universities, because that is where the socialists are being brainwashed.

[canman]

Now the feudalists are desperate to put the genie back in the bottle, but it may be too late. This is why there are suggestions of having a non-elected council for government. The common man has discovered power in numbers. Power they have always had, but did not have the vision or the organizational skills to use it.

And that is how all democracies fail. Once the majority figure out they can vote themselves to the money of others, it's gone and done, the society is on decline towards poverty and tyranny. The idea of an unelected council of nobles is not such a horrible idea as it may seem. There need to be curtails on mob mentality.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is not bad as an ideal. It has little to do with true human nature.

I started developing a simple example, but it quickly became complex. Suffice to say:

- Some will produce to the best of their ability, so long as their basic needs are met.

-Some will not produce anything beyond meeting their own needs, unless they are rewarded

for producing extra.

-Some who are capable of producing will produce nothing, and let the rest produce for them

to provide their basic needs.

- Some in all three groups will aspire to 'need' extra in order to acquire more

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

A good demonstartion here of how a socialist / communist system works in real life:

From: http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/does-socialism-work-a-classroom-experiment/

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for dollars – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

Great example, this should be mandatory in all high schools and universities, because that is where the socialists are being brainwashed.

The lessons from the above:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[canuckamuck]

Now the feudalists are desperate to put the genie back in the bottle, but it may be too late. This is why there are suggestions of having a non-elected council for government. The common man has discovered power in numbers. Power they have always had, but did not have the vision or the organizational skills to use it.

And that is how all democracies fail. Once the majority figure out they can vote themselves to the money of others, it's gone and done, the society is on decline towards poverty and tyranny. The idea of an unelected council of nobles is not such a horrible idea as it may seem. There need to be curtails on mob mentality.

An unelected council would be wonderful if it were populated by wise, selfless, and ethical people. But history has very few examples of this, if any. In a country where corruption begins at kindergarten and flavors nearly every transaction. It is unreasonable to expect that a council would be anything but self serving. In which case it would be out the pan and into the fire. And then how is this council accountable? How is it removed? and if you take away the basic right to vote from the people, what other basic rights are you willing to revoke.

A mob maybe a fearful thing, but as a last resort it is an element of freedom too.