Why can't foreigners in Thailand read and speak Thai?

[lemoncake]

Because 90 percent of Thai conversations are about food, and I don't care what they ate, when they ate it, was it good, when will they eat next etc....

Total rubbish.

Also, I can't understand the people who say they don't want to talk to Thais.

I can speak, read and write due to simple hard work learning.

Was it a waste of time? Of course not. I just bought a house and it would have been extremely difficult if I couldn't have read the mortgage details or been able to tell the builders what to do.

I just built a shed and to go around shops asking for advice on what material to use etc would have been impossible if I was linguistically challenged. I read newspapers to see what's going on.

If you are a long-term tourist I guess there's no need to learn. If you're happy to be chained to your wife, fair enough. I could think of nothing worse than having to take my wife to the mechanic, bank, barber, etc. Learning the language gives so much freedom. I'd be totally embarrassed if after a few years I was still using sign language.

I spoke to the local 'head man' at eh weekend regarding security of my house and noise levels.

Last week I had had a drink with my neighbour and I learned a lot about Thai history.

Today, I went to the bank and discussed my mortgage. Yesterday, I had a meeting with one of my kid's teachers to discuss her getting off school for travelling to Bangkok. I could go on but basically, I live a normal life and to say the use of the language is a waste of time is ridiculous.

There are no excuses - only laziness and lack of motivation. Age is irrelevant. I'm no youngster and I'm learning Chinese at the moment. I know old guys, one in his 70s, who have learned to speak Thai fluently.

I hardly speak a word of Thai, maybe 10 little phrases, but I have managed to do nearly everything from getting bank accounts, and having the satellite tv installed, even went to the ToT shop and arranged for iptv, and no-one there could speak a word of English, ( mind you, they fitted it 3 doors away!) nah, just kidding. Took my Thai driving 'test' at Chok Chai, no-one spoke English there either, it's easy to do anything, even if you cannot speak Thai. I always find my way home at the end of the day, no probs. I really don't see why I should spend hours every day getting stressed out, when I could be on the golf course enjoying retirement.

Don't get me wrong, if it floats your boat, go for it, but it's not for me thanks. I get by.

When I went to renew my license, the women asked in pidgin English where my wife was.

Learning a couple of words a day is hardly stressful.

Was it because your Thai was so fluent? or did she just want to have a chit chat?

[Neeranam]

Ok great you live in Korat, how many years have you lived there?

Do you actually live there or are you just another 2 week millionaire blow in?

Who in their right mind would chose to live in Korat, let me guess your mrs is from there, you had no choice.

You carry on and be yet another kaek (kao) your mrs will explain.

Please tell me, what country do you come from, and what do you think of the kaek who choose not to learn the language of your country?

I was wondering how it could be easy to do what he said without being able to speak. His wife was probably there.

You mean Kaek Khao? I thought that was someone from Iran or thereabouts.

[Torrens54]

Can't speak for everyone....but for me after living here for 10 years (vocabulary of mayber 500 words)....my Thai is very basic....

WHY?...First off I'm an old man and its hard enough for me to remember where I left the car keys! let alone learn a "tonal" language like Thai.

Next....don't really need much more than the basic's that I know to communicate with the Thai's.....isn't That what its all about ...communication!

So why the attitude .....congrats to you....but each to their own

I agree about "memory" being a big factor, as I now fall into that category, I so often used in news reports, "an elderly man........"

Back when I was much younger and working in Australia for a Thai Government Department, I took a couple of Thai lessons and on my next trip tp LOS, tried a few lines in Thai. Everyone was delighted that I had taken the trouble but quickly pointed out that, they'd rather speak English with me.

My wife and our daughter tell me I don't need to learn more than the basic pleasantries. There is also one other point and that is, when Thais move to other countries, Australia is one example, they are offered FREE English language courses. Maybe if that happened here, more foreigners would learn the Thai language.

[transam]

Ok great you live in Korat, how many years have you lived there?

Do you actually live there or are you just another 2 week millionaire blow in?

Who in their right mind would chose to live in Korat, let me guess your mrs is from there, you had no choice.

You carry on and be yet another kaek (kao) your mrs will explain.

Please tell me, what country do you come from, and what do you think of the kaek who choose not to learn the language of your country?

I was wondering how it could be easy to do what he said without being able to speak. His wife was probably there.

You mean Kaek Khao? I thought that was someone from Iran or thereabouts.

He's just testing his Thai out........ .............

[menorah]

I am always appalled at the vast majority of foreigners living permanently or quasi-permanently in Thailand and yet being completely illiterate. I have met almost none who could read Thai, when it does not take that long to learn. Most of them can blabber a couple sentences in Thai in such a horrible accent that only bar girls can understand. Very few are able to speak basic conversational Thai. I am sure that a vast majority of them would cringe at foreigners coming to their countries and refusing to learn their language. So why can't foreigners in Thailand learn to read and speak?

wow you enrolled in a language school.. good on you

Shakespeare had you in mind when he wrote....."The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Albeit, you may not in fact be a lady or even a woman !

Your assertion as to the size of this 'problem or shortcoming', is a generalisation borne out of your superiority. I live in the north west and have encountered plenty of 'have a go' expat's, some fluent, some awful but none the less commendable for making the effort.

I doubt more than a few Thais are concerned enough to cringe at this illiteracy, not least of all since many Thais leaving school can neither read or write Thai.

From personal experience, the number of Thais who immediately shy away when a foreigner approaches a sales desk, or shop assistant leaves many foreigners wondering why they should even consider making the effort.

Countless times Thais have giggled and uttered, " Fung mai lieu lian" (sorry, poor phonetic Thai as I can't write in Thai) when I've ordered petrol or asked a price in store. Normally I respond by saying I didn't realise they were from Lao, which strangely they then comprehend.

What so ever, it's up to the individual. Live and let live.

[rgs2001uk]

Ok great you live in Korat, how many years have you lived there?

Do you actually live there or are you just another 2 week millionaire blow in?

Who in their right mind would chose to live in Korat, let me guess your mrs is from there, you had no choice.

You carry on and be yet another kaek (kao) your mrs will explain.

Please tell me, what country do you come from, and what do you think of the kaek who choose not to learn the language of your country?

I was wondering how it could be easy to do what he said without being able to speak. His wife was probably there.

You mean Kaek Khao? I thought that was someone from Iran or thereabouts.

Well, seeing as he doesnt say what country he is from, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Read some of the other posts on here about farang complaining about being called farang, would they rather be called kaek?

Sorry, not allowed to post Thai script here, but able to read it.

Transliteration/phonetics is not my strong point, please post in Thai I can read.

[Ghostnigel]

Total rubbish.

Also, I can't understand the people who say they don't want to talk to Thais.

I can speak, read and write due to simple hard work learning.

Was it a waste of time? Of course not. I just bought a house and it would have been extremely difficult if I couldn't have read the mortgage details or been able to tell the builders what to do.

I just built a shed and to go around shops asking for advice on what material to use etc would have been impossible if I was linguistically challenged. I read newspapers to see what's going on.

If you are a long-term tourist I guess there's no need to learn. If you're happy to be chained to your wife, fair enough. I could think of nothing worse than having to take my wife to the mechanic, bank, barber, etc. Learning the language gives so much freedom. I'd be totally embarrassed if after a few years I was still using sign language.

I spoke to the local 'head man' at eh weekend regarding security of my house and noise levels.

Last week I had had a drink with my neighbour and I learned a lot about Thai history.

Today, I went to the bank and discussed my mortgage. Yesterday, I had a meeting with one of my kid's teachers to discuss her getting off school for travelling to Bangkok. I could go on but basically, I live a normal life and to say the use of the language is a waste of time is ridiculous.

There are no excuses - only laziness and lack of motivation. Age is irrelevant. I'm no youngster and I'm learning Chinese at the moment. I know old guys, one in his 70s, who have learned to speak Thai fluently.

Best post of the thread. I openly admit I am just far too lazy to write Thai. That is what my staff is for Reading, however was simply too vital to ignore!

I am guessing that most of the people claiming age as the impediment to learning Thai are living in a farang ghetto like Pattaya. That has always boggled my mind, but I did not move here at 39 for what Pattaya has to offer.

The effort really is minimal and the rewards are vast.

Pray tell us what the rewards are? By the way, I live in Nakhon Ratchasima, not Patts, not that many Ghettos here. Please tell me why do you think it's your business whether we should learn to speak the native language, just because you do? You live your life, and I'll live mine....have a good one ok.

The rewards? Hmmm hopping on my motorcycle and going absolutely anywhere with no need for a babysitter is a great one

Korat has scads of foreigners living there. Fairly easy to isolate into a foreign community there if you are in the city. (Yet if you are not using advanced age as an excuse to not learn Thai, it isn't a germane point on where you live

It isn't my business if you choose to be culturally isolated. That is your choice and you are welcome to it Some people like to have to be carted around and have everything done for them ... some like to get out and do things ... I am the latter type :0

The only thing I get carted about in is my car, to carry me and my golf clubs to the course, and when on the course, if the caddie tells me the putt is "sai", I putt it left, and if she says "Kwah" I putt it right, what more do I need to know? Mind you, when she says "Drong" that means straight, yes? Your wisdom is welcome....Fore!! Waddee.

[Ghostnigel]

JD, Sorry mate, but I really can't be bothered to learn Thai, it's too difficult for me, I admit it.

But i don't see it as a handicap, I get by, I don't need to be Molly-coddled, I can look after myself in almost every situation.

I learnt French at school, and German at College, but just let me and other folk go about our own lifes, without you saying we are culturally uneducated, we just cannot be a***d. Ok, so you can be bothered, we cannot all be like you, but we don't try and make you feel inadequate for any of YOUR failings, even if you don't have any.

[Tchooptip]

I have travelled all around the world and make an effort with languages everywhere I go. The thai language is difficult to learn- there is no doubt about it. Go to Indonesia and you can learn very easily and quickly. In LOS its a lot harder to get the pronunciation correct. As for being able to write thai.... forget it

Write Thai ...Why forget it? Certainly not, more more easy than the tones, I do know all the letters by heart now, when I say easy of course you have to learn, a question of motivation thats all, I learn most of the time 3 hours a day, simply because I love it, kind of a challenge for me not a bore at all. But of course as have said David48 (an ever wise man )

"and if they choose not to do ... fine by me also" for no proselytism at all on my behalf

[lemoncake]

I have travelled all around the world and make an effort with languages everywhere I go. The thai language is difficult to learn- there is no doubt about it. Go to Indonesia and you can learn very easily and quickly. In LOS its a lot harder to get the pronunciation correct. As for being able to write thai.... forget it

Write Thai ...Why forget it? Certainly not, more more easy than the tones, I do know all the letters by heart now, when I say easy of course you have to learn, a question of motivation thats all, I learn most of the time 3 hours a day, simply because I love it, kind of a challenge for me not a bore at all. But of course as have said David48 (an ever wise man )

"and if they choose not to do ... fine by me also" for no proselytism at all on my behalf

reading helps speaking, as you know the correct pronunciation.

however reading but not understanding what you read, does become boring and painful

[mgjackson69]

JD, Sorry mate, but I really can't be bothered to learn Thai, it's too difficult for me, I admit it.

But i don't see it as a handicap, I get by, I don't need to be Molly-coddled, I can look after myself in almost every situation.

I learnt French at school, and German at College, but just let me and other folk go about our own lifes, without you saying we are culturally uneducated, we just cannot be a***d. Ok, so you can be bothered, we cannot all be like you, but we don't try and make you feel inadequate for any of YOUR failings, even if you don't have any.

Ghost, your only failing is living in Korat ;-)

Do not take this too seriously...I live in Chok Chai

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[Tchooptip]

When I lived an worked in Belgium I was surprised most of the Americans and Brits who worked in Belgium could not speak, read or write Dutch nor French.

Even more surprising was that the French speaking Belgians could not read, write or understand the majority of Belgians, the Flemish people, go figure how dumb some people are

Actually its arrogance of the French speaking (and poorer) part of Belgium not to speak Dutch while forcing the Dutch speaking part to finance them (as they are the poorer part) and speak their language.

Vlaams block meneer?

[jdinasia]

JD, Sorry mate, but I really can't be bothered to learn Thai, it's too difficult for me, I admit it.

But i don't see it as a handicap, I get by, I don't need to be Molly-coddled, I can look after myself in almost every situation.

I learnt French at school, and German at College, but just let me and other folk go about our own lifes, without you saying we are culturally uneducated, we just cannot be a***d. Ok, so you can be bothered, we cannot all be like you, but we don't try and make you feel inadequate for any of YOUR failings, even if you don't have any.

Any feelings of inadequacy that yqou might be dealing with are purely of your own making. (imho)

I am an adult and you can't make me feel anything, how I choose to respond emotionally to strangers on a webboard all falls on me.

Like I said before people are free to live however they want to and if you are OK going through life not being able to read a sign in Thai, or talk with the vast majority of the people in the country .. then that is awesome for you!

Personally I took the time to do a bit of study, learned to read, and in doing so I improve my vocabulary daily. That just makes the next days a more enriching experience for me. I still make some hideous mistakes and tend to speak in more simple sentences in Thai than I use in English but just last night I spent hours out partying at the local. Met a few really nice people and talked about life and things that matter to me...

I hope someday to be more fluent but a hectic schedule does get in the way of learning and I am almost retirement age, so I stick with trying to pick up a few words a day in contextual usage.

[spiritrace]

The age thing is definitely a factor. Also the Thai language is just a difficult language that is in conflict with the languages we already use. I speak enough Chinese and Japanese to stay out of trouble but it seems Thai is impossible for me to learn. It makes me crazy!

My wife is Thai and still I have problems learning. It just won't stick.

I was enrolling one of the family children in an English school and two other English speaking foreigners came in at the same time. One from Australia and one from the Netherlands. When the lady asked me what I wanted to enroll the little girl in I said "conversational" but she said they did not do it. The two foreigners both piped in and said that was what they wanted to learn as well but was not available.

I don't know what the key to learning Thai is, but a lot of us have the same problem.

[super22k]

Very often,if I try to speak Thai they stop me and ask me to speak English so that they can learn the language from me.Dont forget most people in the world speak English,but we English dont ask them to.It is their own choice.There is a saying,"If you speak Thai you can only speak in Thailand.If you speak English you can speak to the world."

[lemoncake]

The age thing is definitely a factor. Also the Thai language is just a difficult language that is in conflict with the languages we already use. I speak enough Chinese and Japanese to stay out of trouble but it seems Thai is impossible for me to learn. It makes me crazy!

My wife is Thai and still I have problems learning. It just won't stick.

I was enrolling one of the family children in an English school and two other English speaking foreigners came in at the same time. One from Australia and one from the Netherlands. When the lady asked me what I wanted to enroll the little girl in I said "conversational" but she said they did not do it. The two foreigners both piped in and said that was what they wanted to learn as well but was not available.

I don't know what the key to learning Thai is, but a lot of us have the same problem.

I think what makes it hard is that learning Thai is like learning 2-4 languages at the same time.

First you need to learn the word, then the 4 tones, so its like 4 different words, ie 4 different languages.

Problem for Western speaking people is keeping the tones, we are simply not use to it.

You then also have this NgoNoo, which personally i can not pronounce without holding my nose and speaking through the nose and still the sound is wrong

The Sara uu's oo's etc, is another pain as again the short and long sounds

For many many words, in Thai, its a combination of words, ie to describe a simple event which can be said in 1 word in English, it takes 3 words in Thai

Next big problem is classifiers, there seems to be no rule and if there is one, i have not met a teacher yet who can explain

So in a nutshell, when one is learning 2-4 different languages at the same time, it does make it hard to remember it all and if you just learned the words without the tones, then you have a smartass like OP who i seriously doubt can string more than a few words, criticizing you for getting the tones wrong.

Edited December 4, 2013 by lemoncake

[Ulic]

Am I too lazy, yes. But I also know my limitations.It is far too tonal and I have absolutely no ear for it.

I can understand a little French, Spanish, German but Thai, Indonesian, Vietnamese. Forget it, not a thing.

[MrHammer]

Aye,

Shall wait for the inevitable TV sub-thread on how migrants back home don't integrate, and shall back link this thread when that time comes.

Thanks OP!

Yeah right samran, let me know when Thailand begins offering free classes in Thai, free housing, free welfare payments to foreigners? And when foreigners in Thailand begin being a lot more criminal than the locals.

No? I thought so.

Stupid ass comparison samran and you should and probably do know better. Bleeding heart liberal.

[maccaroni man]

TBH I have learned that money is the universal language in Thailand.

[Neeranam]

Very often,if I try to speak Thai they stop me and ask me to speak English so that they can learn the language from me.Dont forget most people in the world speak English,but we English dont ask them to.It is their own choice.There is a saying,"If you speak Thai you can only speak in Thailand.If you speak English you can speak to the world."

Not true, last year I spoke Thai in 2 restaurants in Aberdeen, as well as in the casino to some very pretty girls and even to a cashier at Marks and Sparks!

[MrHammer]

I have noticed reading Thai Visa that the posters who don't speak Thai are likely to be negative towards Thailand and the posters who speak Thai more positive. Same with the word Farang. You can bet your booty that if you think Farang is a negative word that you are headed for trouble in Thailand.

And those who think Farang is a perfectly acceptable word are just as ignorant.

When I was a student at a major well known uni here, not once did I hear the word 'farang' being uttered by staff or fellow Thai students around us foreigners. Neither when I'm talking to educated people with good manners or when I've been to business meatings. It is a slur, not nessecarily racist or negative but a slur none the less. It is very similar to the use of 'negro' in the past (not n*gger), or 'oriental' or 'paki' or any other racial or ethnic slur.

Yes, most Thais probably use farang among themselves in a similar way as how most westerners may sometimes also use some kind of racial/ethnic slur amongst friends, however it is not good manners to refer to someone as farang in Thai while they're around, nor is it good manners to refer to foreigners as 'farang' in conversation with a foreigner. Hence why educated Thais do not do this unless they actually want to make a point of denigrating the 'farang'.

If a Thai says 'farang' I don't think they are being racist or hateful, I simply think they are ignorant and therefore don't want to associate with them, I certainly would never do business with someone referring to me as farang.

[shaurene]

I am 72 and speak 5 language fluently, English, North American, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand. That's enough for me at my age.

[Estrada]

I learnt to read and write Thai 30 years ago. It is very useful to be able to read Thai, for instance the restaurant menu, the buses and so on. A friend found that he had signed as guarantor for a B6.5Million condo, because his wife told him the contract was for his son's schooling. Had he been able to read Thai even a little he would have realised that he was being conned. I believe that being able to read Thai is essential in business rather than relying on Thai staff to translate who may deliberately tell you that a document says something else to what it actually says, because they are also working for your opposition as a spy. This happens a lot in the construction industry. Corruption is everywhere.

[tingtongtingtong]

I think this says more about the foreigners you hang out with.

TV really does seem to be mainly the old-school -type expat- type foreigners. Thailand and the demographic people who settle here are really starting to change. The old generation is dying out - good riddance

I generally read TV to laugh at the old bigots suffering culture shock. Just look at that stickman site - what a joke!

peace

Edited December 4, 2013 by tingtongtingtong

[godden]

my thai oral skills are the talk of the town, ask or write to any lady bar

[godden]

sorry couldn't resist being my 69th post and all

[thehelmsman]

sorry couldn't resist being my 69th post and all

Could also be lucky jackpot numbers.

[Jackson86]

The importance of learning a new language is not dependant on whether or not that language is of economic significance. We should respect all languages in the world. If you're in china, learn mandarin. If you're in thailand, learn thai. Simple as that.

Or, if I may add, just speak English, so much easier, I learnt English from birth, so not hard for me.

But all of you multi-linguists can make us feel inferior if it makes you happy, us older folk don't really give a toss, we'll never master the Thai language now, it's too late for our shrivelled up grey matter to absorb such information. I could say more but it's tiresome now......to the bar, "Leo, Krap!" Kob Kuhn Krap.

Hi there. It's not my desire to make you feel inferior. I feel that it's amazing that this world has so many languages.

[jacko45k]

I was 'stuck indoors' for a bit and thought maybe if I try to learn the alphabet that would re-ignite my language learning. Which after many years is still near zero!

What a confusing system... my old head spun in confusion!

What other alphabet contains unused letters.... and confusing mixes of vowels and consonants to cause tonal changes?

Ignorance is bliss......

I shall survive with 'mai kow-jai'......

Edited December 4, 2013 by jacko45k

[leggo]

I go to a language school

for 2-4 hours every week and after 9 months have learnt to read and write the alphabet and communicate on a basic level. It is more or less understood that it takes 3-5 years of pretty hard studying to become fluent! I also speak two other languages fluently but learning Thai is the most challenging. Whoever posted the original comment here is setting the bar very high to expect the average ex pat to learn Thai - a lot of them can hardly even speak English properly!

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