US citizens......do you FBAR?

[mogandave]

I'm always surprised that people can take so much pride in an accident of birth; like they did something to deserve being born a particular nationality or rank in society.

I always feel sorry for people that have no civic pride, like they were somehow cheated in an accident of birth.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

I feel VERY fortunate to have been born, raised, and educated in the USA.

I don't feel so fortunate about FBAR and similar policies which often feel like harassment against expats.

[thailiketoo]

I don't feel fortunate to have been born in Switzerland, a country who sleep with traitors of Brussel. But now I know Swiss people have the gut to take back their country and kick out all these companies which hurt the country since 2008.

These USA and eu companies are In fact paying less tax than if they have stayed in Europe, hire cheap labor from europe and never hired any Swiss.

(It s like when Mexican companies come to USA, hire only Mexican on USA soil and USA guys never get job.)

Was even a boom in the building construction for big apartment in Geneva than only some USA citizen could afford. ( Guys working for Google by example.)

It has increased rent around Switzerland that some Swiss left to other countries.

We don't need more pollution, traffic and infrastructure destruction. Time to go home guys. Go create jobs In Europe and USA instead... When done, Swiss will renegotiate.

This nationalistic crap that dominates so many TV threads is noxious and should be confined some forum where that stuff is still popular like in 1930's. This thread was about a paperwork requirement of American expats and some loon is trying to turn it into an anti American topic. There are enough Anti American topics running currently why don't you stuff it.

[mogandave]

All Americans are required to file, not just expats.

Anyone with their name on the accounts has to file.

[mogandave]

I feel VERY fortunate to have been born, raised, and educated in the USA.

I don't feel so fortunate about FBAR and similar policies which often feel like harassment against expats.

You don't think Mitt Romney should have to list his offshore accounts?

[wym]

I don't feel fortunate to have been born in Switzerland, a country who sleep with traitors of Brussel. But now I know Swiss people have the gut to take back their country and kick out all these companies which hurt the country since 2008.

These USA and eu companies are In fact paying less tax than if they have stayed in Europe, hire cheap labor from europe and never hired any Swiss.

(It s like when Mexican companies come to USA, hire only Mexican on USA soil and USA guys never get job.)

Was even a boom in the building construction for big apartment in Geneva than only some USA citizen could afford. ( Guys working for Google by example.)

It has increased rent around Switzerland that some Swiss left to other countries.

We don't need more pollution, traffic and infrastructure destruction. Time to go home guys. Go create jobs In Europe and USA instead... When done, Swiss will renegotiate.

This nationalistic crap that dominates so many TV threads is noxious and should be confined some forum where that stuff is still popular like in 1930's. This thread was about a paperwork requirement of American expats and some loon is trying to turn it into an anti American topic. There are enough Anti American topics running currently why don't you stuff it.

Well in this case he's railing against everyone except his fellow compatriots, just pure xenophobia.

Which unfortunately seems to be on the upswing in Europe these days. . .

[JimGant]

This is how far these USA Suckers try to go to grab OUR money.

Hey, you've mentioned you're no longer a US person. Your money's now safe. So why not go yodel, or somethin'.

[mogandave]

All Americans are required to file, not just expats.

Anyone with their name on the accounts has to file.

Wrong. All USA persons. Not all Americans only. What is a USA person? I will answer for you.

A USA person is someone who has US citizenship , Residence card or a person who is born in USA or use the USA dollars.

Tourist must report their money and are considered a USA person as well if the stay more than 183 days in the USA. If you use the Internet you must report all your income and fbar, as using the wwwwill be soon like spending time in the USA.

If you have shares and USA auctions , you are a USA person.

If you look at Fox news you are a USA person. If you drink coke you are a USA person...

So basically the entire planet must report and pay their tax to the IRS mafia. This is how far these USA Suckers try to go to grab OUR money.

That was helpful, thanks.

So can I file exempt if I drink Pepsi?

[maphraw]

I mentioned in a previous post that, despite having lived and worked in Thailand for the past 17 years, I have never "FBARD" and have never declared my Thai interest and dividends from my Thai mutual funds when I file my returns every year with the IRS. I do report my Thai income from the company I work for on the 2555 foreign income exclusion form, I have only just heard about the FBAR a month ago and until recently, my Thai interest and dividends never amounted to very much so I never declared them. I called an American accountant in Bangkok and explained my situation. I told him I now have well over $30,000 in assets in Thailand in joint accounts with my Thai wife(she has a tax number issued by the IRS) I explained that most of our savings are in the US. I told him I was worried and fearful of being subject to a big fine. He asked me if I have filed with the IRS every year and I assured him I have filed every year since I was 17. He asked me if I have ever owed the IRS taxes. I told him I have not. He then said if you declare your Thai interest and dividends this for on your 2013 returns and FBAR, I should be OK and nothing will 'probably' happen to me considering that I have been filing my tax returns with the IRS for the last 45 years. He suggested that I declare all of the dividends that I have earned since owning the Thai mutual funds(we have owned them since 2001).

He also said that he believes the Bank of Thailand is now reporting to the US Treasury then names of Americans with more than $10,000 in their Thai accounts. I can't begin to imagine how this information is being transfered. We have a few bank accounts going back to 1995. None of the banks have my social security number and some don't even have my new passport number. I do remember last year when I opened a savings account with Siam Commercial Bank that they asked me many more questions than I have ever been asked before when opening a bank account and they put this information into their computer.

On another note, I just received an email from the American Investment/Brokerage company that I have my savings with and they told me I must change my Thai address to an American address and if it is not done by the end of March of this year they will liquidate my account. They claimed that the US government was making it too difficult for them to comply with all the new rules and paper work regarding accounts with foreign addresses. I think my country is becoming a monster.

[mogandave]

I am in a similar situation, except that I have been filing the FBAR all along.

Up until 2012 I used Turbo-Tax, and it generated the FBAR.

I use a US address for all my US accounts.

[mogandave]

Honest people punished because of what criminals do. It's America 180, get used to it, as it will continue to get worse.

[wym]

I mentioned in a previous post that, despite having lived and worked in Thailand for the past 17 years, I have never "FBARD" and have never declared my Thai interest and dividends from my Thai mutual funds when I file my returns every year with the IRS. I do report my Thai income from the company I work for on the 2555 foreign income exclusion form, I have only just heard about the FBAR a month ago and until recently, my Thai interest and dividends never amounted to very much so I never declared them. I called an American accountant in Bangkok and explained my situation. I told him I now have well over $30,000 in assets in Thailand in joint accounts with my Thai wife(she has a tax number issued by the IRS) I explained that most of our savings are in the US. I told him I was worried and fearful of being subject to a big fine. He asked me if I have filed with the IRS every year and I assured him I have filed every year since I was 17. He asked me if I have ever owed the IRS taxes. I told him I have not. He then said if you declare your Thai interest and dividends this for on your 2013 returns and FBAR, I should be OK and nothing will 'probably' happen to me considering that I have been filing my tax returns with the IRS for the last 45 years. He suggested that I declare all of the dividends that I have earned since owning the Thai mutual funds(we have owned them since 2001).

This is in line with my advisers also.

Not as if we have a choice anyway in coming years waiting just increases the likelihood of fines red flags god forbid audits.

He also said that he believes the Bank of Thailand is now reporting to the US Treasury then names of Americans with more than $10,000 in their Thai accounts. I can't begin to imagine how this information is being transfered. We have a few bank accounts going back to 1995. None of the banks have my social security number and some don't even have my new passport number. I do remember last year when I opened a savings account with Siam Commercial Bank that they asked me many more questions than I have ever been asked before when opening a bank account and they put this information into their computer.

Name + any of your passport numbers believe me easy enough match, IRS has all the ICT resources it needs, second only to NSA. And they'll probably be working together before too long.

On another note, I just received an email from the American Investment/Brokerage company that I have my savings with and they told me I must change my Thai address to an American address and if it is not done by the end of March of this year they will liquidate my account. They claimed that the US government was making it too difficult for them to comply with all the new rules and paper work regarding accounts with foreign addresses. I think my country is becoming a monster.

Becoming? Long time now no fear, you've just been small fry enough to be skating below the radar til now.

Still easy enough to maintain all appearances of being onshore for US databases, just comply with the bureaucrats' requirements and don't actually try to avoid what's still a pretty reasonable tax burden and you'll be OK.

[T_Dog]

From here on out you have to use the web system for filing your FBAR. Unfortunately, Mac users are out as you have to have a Windows machine. I've sent in forms every year I have lived here but that mail in option is gone.

http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/Why_use_BSA_004.html

[thailiketoo]

You may want to check out the New Streamlined Filing Compliance Procedures for Non-Resident, Non-Filer U.S. Taxpayers. for filing FBARs

[mogandave]

Best is to stay clear and far away of USA and avoid all form of communications or telecommunications with any US person...

So you need to stop posting here correct?

We will miss you, both on the board and in the US.

[JLCrab]

No $10,000 in combined offshore accounts during year = No FBAR requirements. Easy.

[mogandave]

No $10,000 in combined offshore accounts during year = No FBAR requirements. Easy.

Do you work in Thailand? If so, I assume you don't have signing authority over an account at work, because if you did, you would have to file the FBAR for the work account.

Even people living in the US that have never been outside the US but signing authourity on an offshore account associated with their work, have to file.

It does not have to be your money.

[JLCrab]

No -- I am retired.

[mogandave]

No -- I am retired.

Well then it is easy.

As long as you never have more than $10K in offshore accounts your good.

Keep in mind, the $10K is at any time during the year. If you tansfer money to buy a car or what not, be sure to break it up and keep your account balance(s) low.

[JLCrab]

No -- I am retired.

Well then it is easy.

As long as you never have more than $10K in offshore accounts your good.

Keep in mind, the $10K is at any time during the year. If you tansfer money to buy a car or what not, be sure to break it up and keep your account balance(s) low.

Got no mansion

Got no yacht

Still I'm happy with what I got

I got the sun in the morning and the moon at night

(Irving Berlin, Annie Get Your Gun, 1946)

[mogandave]

"A poor girl wants to marry, And a rich girl wants to flirt.
A rich man goes to college, And a poor man goes to work.
A drunkard wants another drink of wine,And a politician wants a vote.
I don't want much of nothin' at all,But I will take another toke."

CDB `74

[JLCrab]

"A poor girl wants to marry, And a rich girl wants to flirt.

A rich man goes to college, And a poor man goes to work.

A drunkard wants another drink of wine,And a politician wants a vote.

I don't want much of nothin' at all,But I will take another toke."

CDB `74

Politicians? from Jesse 'Big Daddy' Unruh about politicians and lobbyists at the state Capital in Sacramento, California:

"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and then vote against them, you have no business being up here.

[Cheapman]

The funny thing, (funny for me, hell for a US person) is if you have by example some Thai baht for less than 10000$ you are OK.

But tomorrow the exchange of the Thai bahts goes down and suddenly you find your self with more than 10000$ without knowing it. Do you check every second the exchange rate? I don't...

And bingo, you are now a criminal trying to hide money on offshore accounts.

[JLCrab]

The funny thing, (funny for me, hell for a US person) is if you have by example some Thai baht for less than 10000$ you are OK.

But tomorrow the exchange of the Thai bahts goes down and suddenly you find your self with more than 10000$ without knowing it. Do you check every second the exchange rate? I don't...

And bingo, you are now a criminal trying to hide money on offshore accounts.

The 2 main reasons a US citizen would have more than $US 10,000 in a Thai bank account would be for the 800K baht for extension based on retirement and 400K baht for family related extensions of stay. As both of those amounts are well in excess of $US 10,000 FBAR reporting requirements, I doubt there would be a need for most to watch the FX rates on a daily basis.

[mogandave]

The funny thing, (funny for me, hell for a US person) is if you have by example some Thai baht for less than 10000$ you are OK.

But tomorrow the exchange of the Thai bahts goes down and suddenly you find your self with more than 10000$ without knowing it. Do you check every second the exchange rate? I don't...

And bingo, you are now a criminal trying to hide money on offshore accounts.

I thought you were avoiding "...all form of communications or telecommunications with any US person(dead or alive)..."

What happened?

[mogandave]

FYI to those interested:

"On December 30, 2013, the IRS issued regulations with respect to the reporting of Passive Foreign Investment Companies (PFIC). The new regulations require taxpayers to report PFICs on an annual basis starting with the 2013 tax return. PFICs are foreign entities with income or assets that are primarily passive."

[meand]

I don't find this requirement too difficult. I work here and have an account here, my money is deposited monthly into that account, and I then swiftly withdraw all funds upon receipt. What I do with those funds I'll leave here unanswered (why am I speaking like I am from the middle ages?). FBAR that.

[Cheapman]

It would be too easy to put the money in a safe in a bank and not report it. I bet this is what people do now.

What guys think?

Problem is you get 0 interest but if I had to hide some dirty money I would go in a country which is against fatca, open a safe, and voilà!

[wym]

Please post back here when you've booked your tickets carrying your suitcases full of Benjamins, I'd be happy to drive you to the airport. . .

[maphraw]

I have just downloaded, completed and sent my first FBAR. I checked the 'I didn't know I had to report it' when asked why I was late. I still find it amazing how many expats in Thailand I meet, ranging from poverty stricken to those making serious money who not only do not FBAR but don't even file their tax returns with the IRS. Most have never heard of FBAR. Possibly one reason is that many of them have no intention of ever returning to the USA.

Since I have done my FBAR duty I assume I now have to include my Thai assets--bank interest and mutual fund dividends- with my 2013 tax returns with the IRS. I have never reported them before. I am not sure if I should just report them for the 2013 tax year as if nothing ever happened or if I should inform them that I have been innocently negligent and repent.