Racism against Filipinos - is there a legal limit?

[Joe Mamma]

I thought that Thailand and the Phillipines had a deal with guaranteed quotas of teachers and nurses going to Thailand every year.

[Nemesis7]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from... They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

Hate to say but i agree. I get Filipinos applying for job weekly and every single time, for some unknown reason they think they are worth double to what Thai get and yet no relevant skills

Keep in mind their salaries back home are half to what Thai get here(exchange rate)

[rgs2001uk]

Where I come from this would be grounds for instant dismissal,

Well thankfully we are in Thailand, not elsewhere, maybe your friends should seek employment where you come from.

This is stemming from several friends I have

So why dont your "friends" do something about it instead.

If the pay is insufficient perhaps they could put an ad in the employment section here in TV and seek employment as a maid at an inflated salary, or join the charity scammers working in Pattaya.

Seen it all before, some think because they speak English (badly and heavily accented) they should somehow earn a western salary.

If you noticed, my friends are not complaining - I am They expect this and therefore put up with it. BUT, if my school were to ever tell the Filipino teachers that they should not associate with me because they are Asian and I'm a farang, it will be the last day I work for that school.

If you noticed, my friends are not complaining - I am

Well doesnt that in itself speak volumes.

BUT, if my school were to ever tell the Filipino teachers that they should not associate with me because they are Asian and I'm a farang, it will be the last day I work for that school.

Great stuff, thats the spirit,hope you have another job lined up.

How many of your "friends" will be walking out with you in a display of "pinoy solidarity"?

How many of them are actually legal and have a WP, how many are doing visa runs?

[smooth expat]

I think they pay you more because you are more authentically "English". That isn't really racism. Would you hire an English cook if you owned a Chinese restaurant?

[metisdead]

Messed up quote posts have been removed. It's quite simple really, at the bottom right corner of each and every post is a Quote button, and a MultiQuote button. If there is a post you wish to reply to/comment on, click on the Quote button and make your reply below the quoted post.

[jiean]

I agree with few ppl 's comment above ...one thing we know for sure is that they accept the undercutting wages without fighting for more benefits coz they are afraid of being sacked or even the employer wouldn't pay more to offer those positions ....

the reality is unemployment rate is pretty high and tons of ppl are jobless in Philippines, thus, filipino usually don't complain too much as long as they v got jobs even though they got paid less as they have no choice but suck it up and bite the bullet .

Filipino teachers got a big family back to their country and they have to send money to support their close and distant relatives whoever they are ..I v been so moved coz we do anything for ourselves only and enjoy days alone without caring about parents , friends and relatives...however, they have been doing this for one another until now ...

I guess there is no serious racism to them ..but i got an advice for filipino teachers which is they gonna focus on accent while speaking English .....it sounds harsh for me.. I had taken conversation management and accent reduction while we took a vacation in Los Angeles for a couple of months ...I didn't have any Chinese accent while speaking English ( foreigners told me so )as I have been raised up in a westernized family in china and got lots of western touch since I was younger..

I'm teaching Chinese here on my BE degree coz the school said they don't want my Master degree which means they gonna pay me more if they hire me with my master degree.....so my monthly salary is 80,000฿ plus 9,000฿ housing allowance ... Few Chinese I knew got at least 30,000฿ in private school..

My husband is filipino and he obviously doesn't get paid as much as I did...let's say just 25,000 ++++

Few Filipinos who have been working here for ten yrs could get more than 40,000฿ ...

[DGIE]

I think they pay you more because you are more authentically "English". That isn't really racism. Would you hire an English cook if you owned a Chinese restaurant?

Well, I agree that authentic English people are paid more.

But I disagree of not hiring an English cook if you owned a Chinese restaurant. If you are in a country where it is not a Chinese', your business will not grow if you concentrate in Chinese people only. ..hope you understand this too.

[DGIE]

Native English speakers such as US, UK, Australia, New Zealand are paid about 30,000-38,000 baht per month, while non-native English speakers such as Filipino, Indian, Pakistani, Africa many countries, are paid 17,000 or so per month. Some friends have agents and some go direct which can make a big difference in wages and perks.

Ministry of Education employs directly more than 70 Filipinos (number last year and added more than 20 this year) and almost equal number of Chinese and 1 South African.

Those people are paid from 37,000+ as the lowest and maximum of around 50,000 Baht. Tax deducted.

The lowest hour is 15-16 and maximum of 20 hours per week. Rate per hour is 600 Baht.

[Bikkii]

It is not just here the Filo's get treated like s@@t. Have a look at Singapore or Dubai and it is a similar story.

[jdinasia]

Native English speakers such as US, UK, Australia, New Zealand are paid about 30,000-38,000 baht per month, while non-native English speakers such as Filipino, Indian, Pakistani, Africa many countries, are paid 17,000 or so per month. Some friends have agents and some go direct which can make a big difference in wages and perks.

Ministry of Education employs directly more than 70 Filipinos (number last year and added more than 20 this year) and almost equal number of Chinese and 1 South African.

Those people are paid from 37,000+ as the lowest and maximum of around 50,000 Baht. Tax deducted.

The lowest hour is 15-16 and maximum of 20 hours per week. Rate per hour is 600 Baht.

Source?

[recom273]

If Filipinos have a problem at your school, let them fight their own battles.

[nanai man]

Keep in in perspective.

The farang teacher might get twice what he would earn in his home country. The Philo get paid crap compared to the farang teacher but gets twice what he would earn in the Philippines (estimate only). This isn't a localized phenomenon, in our industry we pay Thai guys similarly when they are overseas. They get paid more than the local, less than us but two or three times better than they would at home. Its just a relative adjustment to their home country average wage. No rascism involved, so don't rock the boat on their behalf cos if they lose their job they wont be thanking you for that.

If they weren't doing better than they would be at home they wouldn't be there.

Be careful what you wish for. These Filipino people are earning far more than at home. They are feeding their familys with it. They won`t thank you for interfering. Long time ago I worked in shipyard in Belfast. A contractor brought over a load of Romanian welders on 50% under the yard rate. These guys were earning 4 times what they could get at home and were happy to take all the crap jobs the local yard welders hated. Then the union got involved and insisted that these guys be paid the yard rate. This I agreed with also. Outcome? Contractor just sacked the Romanians and the poor guys were left without a job.

[DGIE]

Native English speakers such as US, UK, Australia, New Zealand are paid about 30,000-38,000 baht per month, while non-native English speakers such as Filipino, Indian, Pakistani, Africa many countries, are paid 17,000 or so per month. Some friends have agents and some go direct which can make a big difference in wages and perks.

Ministry of Education employs directly more than 70 Filipinos (number last year and added more than 20 this year) and almost equal number of Chinese and 1 South African.

Those people are paid from 37,000+ as the lowest and maximum of around 50,000 Baht. Tax deducted.

The lowest hour is 15-16 and maximum of 20 hours per week. Rate per hour is 600 Baht.

Source?

My wife is one of them.

[DavidMavec]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from... They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

Your comment doesn't really make sense but I see gather that you have some racist tendencies towards Filipinos... maybe they could teach you English.

[zeichen]

This thread seems to be a hot topic.

First of all it is not a Thai thing. I have worked in Korea, Japan, Thailand and now am working in China. Filipinos if they are hired are always paid less. Like others have said a lot of it is because they are not actual native speakers and parents are not willing to pay the premium rates for education with them. Like it or not, believe it or not that is the way it works.

The second issue is that there is no way that you can claim that a Filipino is equal or higher educated than any licensed teacher here. They finish high school at 16 and go 3 years for a bachelors degree and many of their Master's programs are 1 year. My 6 years for Bachelors and Masters is definitely not outweighed by a 20 year old Filipino.

I am not in any way saying that they are not good. There are many Filipino teachers that speak fluent English and are very talented teachers. However many of them are lecture based approach and offer no methodologies that are more student centered or interactive. Similar to a lot of old school teachers.

I wonder how the OP feels about Thai teachers that are even more educated than the Filipinos and those that are fluent in English to an equal or higher standard why are they paid less than Filipinos?

[DavidMavec]

enjoy while you can mister white man

soon chinese english teacher might invade the market and take away your big salary

Not with English like yours they won't, mister yellow man.

[DGIE]

*(Deleted post edited out)*

Where I work, we all receive more or less the same pay. Variances are based on qualifications, length of service, and admisistratove or managerial duties.

justice prevailed where you work

[DGIE]

This thread seems to be a hot topic.

First of all it is not a Thai thing. I have worked in Korea, Japan, Thailand and now am working in China. Filipinos if they are hired are always paid less. Like others have said a lot of it is because they are not actual native speakers and parents are not willing to pay the premium rates for education with them. Like it or not, believe it or not that is the way it works.

The second issue is that there is no way that you can claim that a Filipino is equal or higher educated than any licensed teacher here. They finish high school at 16 and go 3 years for a bachelors degree and many of their Master's programs are 1 year. My 6 years for Bachelors and Masters is definitely not outweighed by a 20 year old Filipino.

I am not in any way saying that they are not good. There are many Filipino teachers that speak fluent English and are very talented teachers. However many of them are lecture based approach and offer no methodologies that are more student centered or interactive. Similar to a lot of old school teachers.

I wonder how the OP feels about Thai teachers that are even more educated than the Filipinos and those that are fluent in English to an equal or higher standard why are they paid less than Filipinos?

Why do Thai government employs Filipinos and other foreigners if they think their Thai teachers can do what foreigners can?

Have you ever seen how Thai teacher with a master degree teaching or speaking English and compared it to a foreigner?

The school Director is surely has better education than most foreigners. Have you ever talked to one of them?

[captspectre]

If they are not paid their contractually-stipulated housing allowance, they can make a complaint at the Labour Department.

there is no law against raceism in thailand, just ask the people from burma. or cambodia.

[DGIE]

I agree with few ppl 's comment above ...one thing we know for sure is that they accept the undercutting wages without fighting for more benefits coz they are afraid of being sacked or even the employer wouldn't pay more to offer those positions ....

the reality is unemployment rate is pretty high and tons of ppl are jobless in Philippines, thus, filipino usually don't complain too much as long as they v got jobs even though they got paid less as they have no choice but suck it up and bite the bullet .

Filipino teachers got a big family back to their country and they have to send money to support their close and distant relatives whoever they are ..I v been so moved coz we do anything for ourselves only and enjoy days alone without caring about parents , friends and relatives...however, they have been doing this for one another until now ...

I guess there is no serious racism to them ..but i got an advice for filipino teachers which is they gonna focus on accent while speaking English .....it sounds harsh for me.. I had taken conversation management and accent reduction while we took a vacation in Los Angeles for a couple of months ...I didn't have any Chinese accent while speaking English ( foreigners told me so )as I have been raised up in a westernized family in china and got lots of western touch since I was younger..

I'm teaching Chinese here on my BE degree coz the school said they don't want my Master degree which means they gonna pay me more if they hire me with my master degree.....so my monthly salary is 80,000฿ plus 9,000฿ housing allowance ... Few Chinese I knew got at least 30,000฿ in private school..

My husband is filipino and he obviously doesn't get paid as much as I did...let's say just 25,000 ++++

Few Filipinos who have been working here for ten yrs could get more than 40,000฿ ...

When I talk with Thai people, it's ok for me whether they speak broken English or just a word.

Accent is never a matter to me as well. What important is, I understand what they want to say.

Edited December 7, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[sirchai]

Thailand is the only country in the world that employs Filipinos to teach English. I've worked with many of them and I had to hear sentences like: "Now, you can sell your white skin again", when it came to sign a new contract at my first school.I'd consider that racism.

They do have a problem with their own folks who're a little darker, they don't have a problem to only speak Tagalog all day long in the English department, which I consider pretty much impolite. ( Especially when an American teacher sits there alone.)

A "real" teacher in the Philippines makes about 6,0000 baht/month. Only two universities in the Philippines are accredited by international standards.

I'm just wondering why ALL of them are holding a degree in education, but not applying for a teacher's license. As a matter of fact, you can buy a fake degree in the Philippines, or you just go to a university and buy a "real" one.You can even tell them the grades you want in your transcripts.

When talking to my American colleague, they can hardly follow a conversation. We've got five of them and asking them a simple question isn't always easy to get the right answer. "May I borrow water"" was a woman's question, when she wanted to have a glass of water from the American woman.

I find it hard to believe that most of them consider themselves as teachers, as they're all playing games.

I just wanted to know if they've to pay for a visa when going to Laos and asked one: " Excuse me, when you went to Laos, did you have to pay for a visa for Laos?

No answer, as she didn't get it. A south Londoner tried it, with the same result. Nil..Then I said: "You buy visa when go Laos, or not?" Answer: " No, I no pay."

I see the quality of the kids' English after having Filipinos for the last three years. Unbelievable.The grade five kids the American teacher took over in May didn't even know the ABC, as they had Filipinos before, who also just" played games" with them

.I'd think playing games is a great idea, if it's related to a topic they teach.And teaching a language is a profession, not a game.

With all respect, this is not a Filipino bashing post, just my experience with them in nine years of teaching. They tell me that they're only doing their jobs for the money, a high percentage of them send most of their salaries to their country, which doesn't really help the Thai economy.

Nor helping Thais who're seeking a job teaching English, with a very good command, but no degree and government status.

Here's just my own personal opinion about the low level of English at Thai schools. Having too many Thai English teachers and Filipinos with a low level of English speaking skills, combined with some backpackers teaching English, employed by agencies, will never be successful.

I know that there're some excellent Filipino English teachers out there, but they're in the minority.-

Edited December 7, 2013 by sirchai

[DGIE]

I always appreciate when someone reminds to Filipinos where they come from... They obviously abuse and try to get to high salaries when working for private companies, so at least the Thai educational system teach them well :-)

Hate to say but i agree. I get Filipinos applying for job weekly and every single time, for some unknown reason they think they are worth double to what Thai get and yet no relevant skills

Keep in mind their salaries back home are half to what Thai get here(exchange rate)

Yes of course, Filipinos would be idiots if they work here when they can earn the same salary in the Philippines. What kind of idea you have, lemoncake.

Same is true with most foreigners working here (please take note I am referring to working foreigners). Unless they work here not for the salary but for beautiful Thai women, low cost of living or just a part of their adventures.

Edited December 7, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[phitsanulokjohn]

I have to disagree.The Thai's are very fair,they don't practice selective discrimination,every farang gets discriminated against.

[lostinisaan]

Thailand is the only country in the world that employs Filipinos to teach English. I've worked with many of them and I had to hear sentences like: "Now, you can sell your white skin again", when it came to sign a new contract at my first school.I'd consider that racism.

They do have a problem with their own folks who're a little darker, they don't have a problem to only speak Tagalog all day long in the English department, which I consider pretty much impolite. ( Especially when an American teacher sits there alone.)

A "real" teacher in the Philippines makes about 6,0000 baht/month. Only two universities in the Philippines are accredited by international standards.

I'm just wondering why ALL of them are holding a degree in education, but not applying for a teacher's license. As a matter of fact, you can buy a fake degree in the Philippines, or you just go to a university and buy a "real" one.You can even tell them the grades you want in your transcripts.

When talking to my American colleague, they can hardly follow a conversation. We've got five of them and asking them a simple question isn't always easy to get the right answer. "May I borrow water"" was a woman's question, when she wanted to have a glass of water from the American woman.

I find it hard to believe that most of them consider themselves as teachers, as they're all playing games.

I just wanted to know if they've to pay for a visa when going to Laos and asked one: " Excuse me, when you went to Laos, did you have to pay for a visa for Laos?

No answer, as she didn't get it. A south Londoner tried it, with the same result. Nil..Then I said: "You buy visa when go Laos, or not?" Answer: " No, I no pay."

I see the quality of the kids' English after having Filipinos for the last three years. Unbelievable.The grade five kids the American teacher took over in May didn't even know the ABC, as they had Filipinos before, who also just" played games" with them

.I'd think playing games is a great idea, if it's related to a topic they teach.And teaching a language is a profession, not a game.

With all respect, this is not a Filipino bashing post, just my experience with them in nine years of teaching. They tell me that they're only doing their jobs for the money, a high percentage of them send most of their salaries to their country, which doesn't really help the Thai economy.

Nor helping Thais who're seeking a job teaching English, with a very good command, but no degree and government status.

Here's just my own personal opinion about the low level of English at Thai schools. Having too many Thai English teachers and Filipinos with a low level of English speaking skills, combined with some backpackers teaching English, employed by agencies, will never be successful.

I know that there're some excellent Filipino English teachers out there, but they're in the minority.-

A great insight. Honestly speaking, the question should be: " Are Filipinos racist?" I've also experienced a lot of hate, as I'm making 3,000 baht more. And I did hear the sentence to sell my white skin again as well.

The fake degree situation is indeed a fact, while so many good westerners stopped teaching, as they couldn't continue without a degree. Native English speakers with many years of experience, speaking Thai and having Thai families.

Those people spent all their money here, which created some new jobs as well.

Edited December 7, 2013 by lostinisaan

[DGIE]

Thailand is the only country in the world that employs Filipinos to teach English. I've worked with many of them and I had to hear sentences like: "Now, you can sell your white skin again", when it came to sign a new contract at my first school.I'd consider that racism.

They do have a problem with their own folks who're a little darker, they don't have a problem to only speak Tagalog all day long in the English department, which I consider pretty much impolite. ( Especially when an American teacher sits there alone.)

A "real" teacher in the Philippines makes about 6,0000 baht/month. Only two universities in the Philippines are accredited by international standards.

I'm just wondering why ALL of them are holding a degree in education, but not applying for a teacher's license. As a matter of fact, you can buy a fake degree in the Philippines, or you just go to a university and buy a "real" one.You can even tell them the grades you want in your transcripts.

When talking to my American colleague, they can hardly follow a conversation. We've got five of them and asking them a simple question isn't always easy to get the right answer. "May I borrow water"" was a woman's question, when she wanted to have a glass of water from the American woman.

I find it hard to believe that most of them consider themselves as teachers, as they're all playing games.

I just wanted to know if they've to pay for a visa when going to Laos and asked one: " Excuse me, when you went to Laos, did you have to pay for a visa for Laos?

No answer, as she didn't get it. A south Londoner tried it, with the same result. Nil..Then I said: "You buy visa when go Laos, or not?" Answer: " No, I no pay."

I see the quality of the kids' English after having Filipinos for the last three years. Unbelievable.The grade five kids the American teacher took over in May didn't even know the ABC, as they had Filipinos before, who also just" played games" with them

.I'd think playing games is a great idea, if it's related to a topic they teach.And teaching a language is a profession, not a game.

With all respect, this is not a Filipino bashing post, just my experience with them in nine years of teaching. They tell me that they're only doing their jobs for the money, a high percentage of them send most of their salaries to their country, which doesn't really help the Thai economy.

Nor helping Thais who're seeking a job teaching English, with a very good command, but no degree and government status.

Here's just my own personal opinion about the low level of English at Thai schools. Having too many Thai English teachers and Filipinos with a low level of English speaking skills, combined with some backpackers teaching English, employed by agencies, will never be successful.

I know that there're some excellent Filipino English teachers out there, but they're in the minority.-

I think you are a conceited man.

I know some Filipinos teaching in Vietnam, Macau, and China. So you are badly mistaken.

Can you send me privately (because it is not allowed here) that university in the Philippines that sells fake degrees? Can you firmly stand for that?

I think those Grade 5 students who do not know ABC are your student. You have to also learn Math with them so that they teach you how to put comma in between numbers.

When someone didn't understand you, try to repeat so that they understand your English just like those Filipinos who didn't understand you when you asked them if they had to pay their visa in Laos.

I know an Agency that employs Filipinos and the agency is managed by an English man. Before hiring a teacher, he let them demonstrate. Playing games is 1 way to motivate children. To get their attention when they are not interested. But for sure the teachers don't play football in the class. I hope you understand what I mean.

I hope those schools with low level of English teachers like you said, will discover you so that teaching English will be successful in their school.

[DGIE]

Keep in in perspective.

The farang teacher might get twice what he would earn in his home country.

Are you sure that's what you mean?

I was paid over $6000 a month in my home country. Here, I am paid $1000 a month. That's more the norm.

I understand, you are here not for salary. Is being here a part of your adventure?

[zeichen]

Though I tend to agree with a lot Sirichai has to say, everything he posted here is bogus. First of all as I stated Filipinos teach in many asian countries as English teachers and are paid lower than native speakers.

You wrote that Filipinos get paid 6,0000 baht as a teacher. If the comma is in the wrong place then yes, if you meant to write 6K baht, you are truly mistaken. Filipino teachers that are qualified can make a good salary back home. The problem for them is that there aren't many jobs available and it is hard for them to get hired back home until they get experience.

DGIE "Why do Thai government employs Filipinos and other foreigners if they think their Thai teachers can do what foreigners can?

Have you ever seen how Thai teacher with a master degree teaching or speaking English and compared it to a foreigner?

The school Director is surely has better education than most foreigners. Have you ever talked to one of them?"

Got to be honest, none of your questions relate to my argument. but I will address your questions.

Schools hire Native speakers to help with fluency, and communicative ability. They hire Filipinos to save money. There are not as many Thais that can communicate or have the ability of a native speaker. However that wasn't my argument. My statement was those that could get paid a lot less than even Filipinos.

Your second question, not what I was stating. But the answer is yes. I know of many Thai people that have near native accents and some that are native. I also know many Thais that have Masters and PhD's that are excellent English speakers with more to offer than just a native accent. If you think the objective of a foreign language teachers is just pronunciation, then we have different fundamental beliefs.

Your final question about education of directors, I really don't see anything in my posts that was focussed on Thai directors. However, just to clue you in. I have been in education for over 15 years. I have strong relationships with many principals and directors of public universities, private schools, international schools and language schools in CM province.

[SPIKECM]

Its a pretty rough way of putting it, but basically I agree with this. A raw market operates in Thailand. There's no PC to deal with. "If you don't like it, then go" is the Thai attitide to ex-pats, teachers and whoever wants to stay here. If the wages are't enough, unless they stop coming, nothing much will change. Forget any sense of fairness operating in the market in Thailand.

Besides all that, there is that accent problem!

They accepted the wage so how can you complain about that ? They are only employed because they are cheaper and they are only getting the jobs because they are undercutting existing pathetic wages.

Parents don't want them because they don't speak English correctly. The kids learn naff all from them so why are they here ? Because they accepted the wage and the school doesn't want to pay more.

If they want the same pay then their English needs to be as good as a native speaker. It's not, lets not pretend.

Edited December 7, 2013 by SPIKECM

[Scott]

A lot of posts and replies have been deleted. Stay on topic.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and posts with improper fonts have been deleted along with replies.

The topic is about racism.