Racism against Filipinos - is there a legal limit?

[Scott]

I strongly suggest you stick to the topic and cease comments directed at other posters.

[lemoncake]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with respect but simple reality check.

Filipino do not have "special " skills to offer over a Thai to justify higher salary .

Filipinos generally aren't receiving more than Thai employees.

e.g. A Thai permanent government employee is usually paid 15,000+, which increases with experience and managerial positions. Senior staff are usually earning 40,000-50,000 by the time they are ready to retire, possibly more if they are a head of department or similar.

Filipino teachers are usually employed for around 18,000, give or take a little depending on the school. Possible raises over time, but these would be at the discretion of the school.

Short term the Filipino package is better, long term the Thai package is better. If I could choose from either, I don't know which I'd choose.... short term gains vs long term security/gains, if I was a Thai person I'd choose the long term package, but if I was Filipino I'd probably choose the 18,000, and work on the basis that when I have more experience, I'd move to a better paying job.

These figures are based on what my school pays. I know that there are quite a few schools who pay Filipinos in the 20,000 - 30,000 bracket (And some who pay more), many of which are looking for either a cheap NES or a very good Non-NES teacher, and they then decide after they've finished interviewing candidates.

I can only speak from experience i have had dealing with Filipinos .

I advertise a job offering 12k per month, they show up and want 20k, yet no relevant experience or any other skill but English.

Looking through classifieds in people searching for job, Thai salary for live in nanny 8k-12k, Filipino asking for 15k-20k

[SlyAnimal]

I'm just hoping that those people who saying against Filipinos are so perfect . It proves to me that it takes time to earn respect from others. Sad but true.

Yes, some of you are true saying that my country is perfect for storms and landslides I'm just hoping that you'll never experience that now or someday because I don't want other people / other race to experience that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with respect but simple reality check.

Filipino do not have "special " skills to offer over a Thai to justify higher salary .

Filipinos generally aren't receiving more than Thai employees.

e.g. A Thai permanent government employee is usually paid 15,000+, which increases with experience and managerial positions. Senior staff are usually earning 40,000-50,000 by the time they are ready to retire, possibly more if they are a head of department or similar.

Filipino teachers are usually employed for around 18,000, give or take a little depending on the school. Possible raises over time, but these would be at the discretion of the school.

Short term the Filipino package is better, long term the Thai package is better. If I could choose from either, I don't know which I'd choose.... short term gains vs long term security/gains, if I was a Thai person I'd choose the long term package, but if I was Filipino I'd probably choose the 18,000, and work on the basis that when I have more experience, I'd move to a better paying job.

These figures are based on what my school pays. I know that there are quite a few schools who pay Filipinos in the 20,000 - 30,000 bracket (And some who pay more), many of which are looking for either a cheap NES or a very good Non-NES teacher, and they then decide after they've finished interviewing candidates.

I can only speak from experience i have had dealing with Filipinos .

I advertise a job offering 12k per month, they show up and want 20k, yet no relevant experience or any other skill but English.

Looking through classifieds in people searching for job, Thai salary for live in nanny 8k-12k, Filipino asking for 15k-20k

My examples were specifically related to Filipino Teachers (Which is the subject of this thread).

Other professions, such as nannying etc, are a completely different kettle of fish.

[Scott]

I doubt that asking for more money is unique to Filipinos. We have a set salary scale, a lot of people ask for more. It's not entertained and that's the end of the discussion. I've only had a few people say they weren't interested for that salary.

We do have people who leave for a higher salary, though, if they can get one and if it is significant enough to warrant the change.

[paulmw]

Where I come from this would be grounds for instant dismissal,

Well thankfully we are in Thailand, not elsewhere, maybe your friends should seek employment where you come from.

This is stemming from several friends I have

So why dont your "friends" do something about it instead.

If the pay is insufficient perhaps they could put an ad in the employment section here in TV and seek employment as a maid at an inflated salary, or join the charity scammers working in Pattaya.

Seen it all before, some think because they speak English (badly and heavily accented) they should somehow earn a western salary.

If you noticed, my friends are not complaining - I am They expect this and therefore put up with it. BUT, if my school were to ever tell the Filipino teachers that they should not associate with me because they are Asian and I'm a farang, it will be the last day I work for that school.

Thats Ok no problem if you quit, about 20 Filipino teachers will by waiting to replace you, over the Filipino bush telegraph

as you told their friends at school.

[Kilgore Trout]

 The Filipinos in question had equal to or surpassing qualifications than that of the other foreigners.  At the school where I teach the pay is based on qualification, not the country of origin.  The Filipino teachers with a M.A. degree get exactly the same pay as I do.  And no, Filipino teachers here do not get 2x what they would in the Philippines - they get the same as the govt. standardized pay in the Philippines.

An MA in edu from the phillipines isnt even close to being comparable to a ba edu from a western country; so unless the phillipino went to school in the west, dont make me laugh

However; these kinds of schools probably dont have qualified westerners either

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[atlbravosfan]

What I've been wondering is, with the impending ASEAN merger whereby anyone from an ASEAN state can gain employment in another ASEAN state, will there be any regulations on hiring practices and pay? As in, do other ASEAN members have the same rights within other's nations as the citizens of said nation? What about equal pay? Equal opportunity? I can see that many of the countries of ASEAN are quite nationalistic and somewhat prejudiced, especially against certain other member states... just had me wondering...

[aussiestyle1983]

Some have argued that there is racism and discrimination against Filipinos in Thailand. They have valid points (eg: lower pay compared to others, worse conditions). Some have argued that what happens to Filipions in Thailand is not racism or discrimination. They have valid points (eg: they do earn more than they would back home, it happens to people of other nationalities as well).

I say it is what it is. There is nothing that I can do about it. When I was teaching in Thailand I knew that I was a foreigner and thus a visitor. It was not my business to question how others were treated (or what they accepted). It was not up to me to make the rules. I chose to accept my pay and conditions and so did the Filipinos. Whilst I did not think that some of their salaries compared to others was fair, they often had a go at me. I was the only Westerner in a staff room with 18 Filipinos and 1 Thai. I was outnumbered 18 to 1. They would all speak in their native language all day - who knows what they were talking about. I found it difficult to pick up Thai as I was hearing Filipinos talk all day. This is why I did not care on the last Friday of the month when it took me three times as long to count my pay - as we all had to count our pay in the staff room before we left. It is what it is.

Edited December 9, 2013 by aussiestyle1983

[sirchai]

Where I come from this would be grounds for instant dismissal,

Well thankfully we are in Thailand, not elsewhere, maybe your friends should seek employment where you come from.

This is stemming from several friends I have

So why dont your "friends" do something about it instead.

If the pay is insufficient perhaps they could put an ad in the employment section here in TV and seek employment as a maid at an inflated salary, or join the charity scammers working in Pattaya.

Seen it all before, some think because they speak English (badly and heavily accented) they should somehow earn a western salary.

If you noticed, my friends are not complaining - I am They expect this and therefore put up with it. BUT, if my school were to ever tell the Filipino teachers that they should not associate with me because they are Asian and I'm a farang, it will be the last day I work for that school.

Thats Ok no problem if you quit, about 20 Filipino teachers will by waiting to replace you, over the Filipino bush telegraph

as you told their friends at school.

Though it was called farcebook.-

[thai4me]

Perhaps the propensity to pay a white farang higher could be a common Thai belief that a white person is automatically an English native speaker.

[Scott]

Perhaps the propensity to pay a white farang higher could be a common Thai belief that a white person is automatically an English native speaker.

Or the belief that stupid parents won't realize that Igor Snitchkowski isn't a native speaker.

[SlyAnimal]

Perhaps the propensity to pay a white farang higher could be a common Thai belief that a white person is automatically an English native speaker.

Or the belief that stupid parents won't realize that Igor Snitchkowski isn't a native speaker.

Especially when Igor Snitchkowski still speaks better English than the director & most of the English teachers.

And even if he doesn't, the director/Thai teachers aren't going to challenge a farang on whether he can speak English properly or not. That would just be courting disaster (and loss of face).

[Scott]

Oh, Sly, how wrong you are. Our admin thinks they have excellent English and they often try to correct us. Let me give you an example. One of them wrote this:

"The police is very corrupt." I corrected it to say

"The police are very corrupt." It was then changed, and approved and put into a document as this:

"The polices are very corrupt."

I give up, I seldom correct the Thai admin any more. I have much better luck with the Filipinos who generally do understand grammar and with whom you can discuss it.

[Water Buffalo]

The treatment sounds unpleasant.

Racism is considered normal here. In fact, there seems to be no concept of "racism" at all. The generally accepted mentality of Thais is that it is OK to treat people differently because they are of a different nationality. And when you say, "that's racism", they don't understand what you are talking about. From the moment they are born they are taught they are special and different from everyone else.

It isn't nice, but it won't change soon. We all experience it.

With regards to the difference in pay between native speakers and Filipinos, i agree with the difference. I wouldn't expect to be paid the same as you for teaching Filipino, no matter how proficient i thought i was.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Water Buffalo

[onlycw]

A Filipino told me how they were treated abominably by some Tessaban up North. They left finally - being owed no less than 70,000 Baht each. Apparently, the previous teachers were not paid either (I gather that they got a few thousand a month to pay for accommodation and food). AFAIK, they all took it and have not sued for their back wages. They all got new jobs and some are afraid of repercussions if they take action against some corrupt local government up North.

It's bizarre - to ask teachers not to co-mingle. But then, communication is often misunderstood. I had been told once by some frigid old lady "do not speak to the students!" Yeah, it would be nice to be able to read during one's lessons

How has the OP's drama played out? I'll read the whole thread later.

[sirchai]

Oh, Sly, how wrong you are. Our admin thinks they have excellent English and they often try to correct us. Let me give you an example. One of them wrote this:

"The police is very corrupt." I corrected it to say

"The police are very corrupt." It was then changed, and approved and put into a document as this:

"The polices are very corrupt."

I give up, I seldom correct the Thai admin any more. I have much better luck with the Filipinos who generally do understand grammar and with whom you can discuss it.

A real good one. While many of us always use "The police is corrupt", but as it's a collective noun, so it's wrong, and you're right.

But considering the government also as an institution, then it becomes quite difficult to explain why to use singular.

The Thai government are corrupt sounds weird.

Please show this to your Thai superiors: http://www.better-english.com/grammar/sinplu.htm

Edited December 10, 2013 by sirchai

[Scott]

Thanks, Sirchai, but I long ago gave up on them. I now have a few nice parents whom I point these things out to and they bring it to their attention. That works really well.

But we are straying off the topic.

[bundoi]

I'm not surprised that a thread about racism has revealed so many racist attitudes on TV; but I am still a little shocked to find so much racism and cultural imperialism on the Teaching Forum, particularly among "1st-world" people who present themselves as teachers.

[BruceMangosteen]

. For example, if you are married and living with your family, the school will usually pay you housing, if you have a child, they will not allow you to live in the housing and you get the housing allowance.

You bring up an interesting point and question. Some Thai school directors and department heads will believe concocted stories about family obligations and duties and pay said teacher more, give them preferential treatment such as hours etc.. This is a form of discrimination itself. Why should a lady with a baby or a guy with a wife be paid more than an equally qualified person without such home obligations? Foreigners is my context but I'd assume it goes on within the Thai ranks as well.

[otherstuff1957]

Education in Thailand is much more business oriented than public service oriented. Filipinos are paid less because of market forces, not racism. Anyone who has had to sift through a stack of CVs sent in response to a job ad will know that you will typically get 100 responses from Filipinos and perhaps 5 responses from NES and another 5 from Europeans. The employers offer lower wages to Filipinos because the Filipinos are usually desperate from work and will accept the lower wages.

[bundoi]

Education in Thailand is much more business oriented than public service oriented. Filipinos are paid less because of market forces, not racism. Anyone who has had to sift through a stack of CVs sent in response to a job ad will know that you will typically get 100 responses from Filipinos and perhaps 5 responses from NES and another 5 from Europeans. The employers offer lower wages to Filipinos because the Filipinos are usually desperate from work and will accept the lower wages.

I agree with some of your assertions but not all.

In my experience...

• Most of the applicants who have difficulty providing a home country police-check are farangs

• Most of the applicants who can't speak a word of Thai are farangs

• Most of the fraudulent applicants with bogus degrees are farangs.

[navara]

I didn't read the topic. This what I know.

- They get paid the same as others

- Thai are not please with the quality

Some schools take Filipino's because they can dance and sing, because they do not like the sharp eye of a native speaker.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory post removed.

[BruceMangosteen]

Racism is considered normal here. In fact, there seems to be no concept of "racism" at all. The generally accepted mentality of Thais is that it is OK to treat people differently because they are of a different nationality. And when you say, "that's racism", they don't understand what you are talking about. From the moment they are born they are taught they are special and different from everyone else.

Excellent post. I think you are not limiting your context to Thai vs the rest of the world? I find this what I also call racism to be inclusive of for example, a Thai discriminating againist an Amerian and in fact, vicious acts and out and out lies, as opposed to for example a Chinese teacher, whom they are kind and gentle towards as well as honest and truthful with.

[thailandbeachisland]

What's your problem with racism ? At least it is allowed here and we should enjoy it !!!

[onlycw]

At my government school, there is an Asian with a masters degree. Very professional guy. He's earning 20,000 B while a, how shall I put this?, guy with a fake degree from an African country makes 25,000 B. One test lesson would have sorted this out - but there hadn't been any.

TBH, the pressure is on, also on Western teachers. Schools have replaced NES with you guys, you are aware of that, aren't you?

30 k is good, but 20 k is even better. The cost pressure is on and a lot of qualified NES teachers are very unhappy about this development.

But hey, as long as the TCT accepts the silly TOEIC score of 600 as passing grade for a teacher's position, Thailand is on its way to hell in a hand basket!