Suthep sets December 9 as D-Day

[GeorgeO]

A good solution would be one in which Thailand is not sent back into the dark ages .

How can one send something to where it already is....?

[FangFerang]

Khun Suthep, and I use the honorific because he has the problems identified and wants change, has gone down the wrong road. In English we say 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'. I think his contribution is that the protests have actually stated the problems out loud in this beautiful and complex culture here in Thailand, and where speaking out loud is fairly taboo. That is admirable, and has been distorted to simplistic and unrealistic terms by the foreign media. Please note I am not saying the protests were a good idea. I am not saying the protests were a bad idea.

I do not choose sides. I am a guest here. That infuriates many westerners, who consider politics a cricket match. It is not. We are seeing a culture evolve, and that is something few people ever have the privilage to witness. I am happy to be here in Thailand, surrounded by Thai kindness, and am proud that things are changing, slowly, almost glacially, but things are changing.

We are watching a great people struggle to become greater.

Are people in my country as polite as Thais? No. Are people in my country actually protesting injustice? No. Are people in my country voicing their opinions at the ballot box? No.

Only a fool refuses to learn from the people they meet.

I am no fool. I love Thailand and Her people. They teach me many things. I am a teacher, and that means to be a good teacher I must always be a student.

This demonstartive power grab has a point. There must be balance. I look forward to reading the next chapter in this story that should never end.

[Emptyset]

Now be serious .... You are looking at the kinder gentler Suthep that does not want the image of hiding behind grannies and babies. Those images in 2010 made many Thai people very sick. Just as it made some sick that there were oldsters and babies at Suwannaphoom. The difference being at the airport they were sitting in the shade listening and singing. Not putting babies on top of tires after having launched those cheesy rockets. (I still do not know if those were intended to cause harm but I assume they were)

You know my personal feelings re: Suthep (and Newin and Banharn and the rest of the regional power families on either side of the divide) but again I am betting that Suthep, like Chamlong. Will actually be there on Monday. That is a far cry different than Thaksin when he said "when the first bullets fly I will be there with you" (that probably should not be in quotes -- but it is how I remember him saying it.

Suthep making that call is about the image. I think it will resonate with the people to a much greater degree than you would expect.

I agree Suthep's made the right call. I think the guy that took that picture in 2010 is a little sick of that one picture being used for political purposes though (I know him personally). The guy was one idiot, and you can't legislate for the actions of one moron as a movement*. There was at least one kid pictured during the battle with police the other day and, to be fair, anti-govt people did condemn it, and violence is obviously not at the same level as live rounds being fired by the military.

I also hope Suthep also tells people to keep their dogs at home. They don't deserve to be dragged into this:

แก้วมาลา Kaewmala ‏@Thai_Talk 12h

Seen picture of a little dog blinded by tear gas in protest. I'm sorry for the dog and the owner but seriously, why took the dog to protest?

Yes, I'd expect Suthep to be around and about during Monday's protest. Doubt he'll be on the front lines though, but which leader would? That Thaksin is corrupt, cowardly and amoral isn't in question.

*Also glad you mentioned PAD here. By comparison:

'The PAD leaders remained inside Government House after the warrants were issued and challenged police to arrest them there. They vowed not to flee and were surrounded by thousands of supporters on the lawn of Government House. Women and children sat in rows at the gates to prevent police from storming the compound.'

'Protesters vowed on Friday to 'fight to the death,' as police said they would negotiate with the demonstrators before trying to evict them under emergency laws. 'We are not afraid. We will fight to the death, we will not surrender and we are ready,' one of the main protest leaders, Somsak Kosaisuk, told a crowd of supporters at the domestic Don Mueang airport.

Another protest leader, Suriyasai Katasila said, 'We will not leave. We will use human shields against the police if they try to disperse us.'

'“People who work at clothing stores, cafes and bars — and who don’t have any affiliation with the protesters — are getting paid about 100 Baht ($AU4.30) to go in there.

“We’re not sure who is paying them but they’re saying its great; there’s so much food and water.

“The protesters have made walls of barricades that are made with boxes of water wrapped in barbed wire.”

Families who joined the “peaceful” demonstration with babies or children were getting paid more, Ms Vennell said.'

Point is not to single out the PAD but rather to point out that all sides in this conflict have stooped pretty low at times. It sounds like Suthep is against using this sort of tactic, and I hope he means it.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Emptyset

[GeorgeO]

It was a long and painful speech to follow.

As much as people want to say about his protest we have not heard for calls for violence from the stage. He has promised that he will not return to the rally sites. It ends Monday.

It all ends Monday, unless it all doesn't end Monday. In which case, it will end on another date, again.

This guy is a hoot.

This guy is a fascist who wants to disenfranchise 61 million people, do away with one person- one vote, and abolish democracy. Then appoint a handful of like minded people to run the country. And the likes of Jdinasia support this! Amazing! I wonder if this would be acceptable in his home country. I suspect not, if he was calling for it there he would be locked up.

Utter nonsense. Suthep has gambled his political career in order to save Thailand from becoming another Philippines. If he had refused to act, after a further two years of this most corrupt government imaginable, Thailand would have found itself deep in the sh1t.

We do not yet really know how bad the finances are, but when this government does fall, mark my words, it will be far worse than we have so far been led to believe, and there's no doubt that the proposed 2.2 tn baht loan will have to be dropped like a hot potato, since the country will have to go through a period of austerity just to get back to where it was before the Shin government took over.

You talk about what's acceptable in other countries. What wouldn't be acceptable in anyone's country is that a government openly strips the nation of its wealth with apparent impunity. If this were any other country these people would have been gone at least eighteen months ago...!!

What's more, most of them would end up in jail in any other country for imbezzling the nation's wealth, and much of that money would be effectively recovered. I just hope that the interim government is quick enough to stop these PTP rats from scurrying away so that they can be held culpable for their criminal acts.

[edwardandtubs]

It was a long and painful speech to follow.

As much as people want to say about his protest we have not heard for calls for violence from the stage. He has promised that he will not return to the rally sites. It ends Monday.

It all ends Monday, unless it all doesn't end Monday. In which case, it will end on another date, again.

This guy is a hoot.

This guy is a fascist who wants to disenfranchise 61 million people, do away with one person- one vote, and abolish democracy. Then appoint a handful of like minded people to run the country. And the likes of Jdinasia support this! Amazing! I wonder if this would be acceptable in his home country. I suspect not, if he was calling for it there he would be locked up.

Utter nonsense. Suthep has gambled his political career in order to save Thailand from becoming another Philippines. If he had refused to act, after a further two years of this most corrupt government imaginable, Thailand would have found itself deep in the sh1t.

We do not yet really know how bad the finances are, but when this government does fall, mark my words, it will be far worse than we have so far been led to believe, and there's no doubt that the proposed 2.2 tn baht loan will have to be dropped like a hot potato, since the country will have to go through a period of austerity just to get back to where it was before the Shin government took over.

You talk about what's acceptable in other countries. What wouldn't be acceptable in anyone's country is that a government openly strips the nation of its wealth with apparent impunity. If this were any other country these people would have been gone at least eighteen months ago...!!

What's more, most of them would end up in jail in any other country for imbezzling the nation's wealth, and much of that money would be effectively recovered. I just hope that the interim government is quick enough to stop these PTP rats from scurrying away so that they can be held culpable for their criminal acts.

What you've written is utter nonsense. If Thailand's finances are as bad as you say, why hasn't the country been downgraded by the ratings agencies (Moody's, S&P and Fitch)? Do you have some secret access to 'The Truth' that they don't have?

[FangFerang]

Vote buying....protest buying...

What's the difference?

None.

[Emptyset]

Suthep was talking at that point contrasting the reds and his group. They were asking Grannies to stay at home during the event (according to him, and what I understood)

As is often the case (though he is a far far better public speaker than YL) He rambled. The posts as they were popping up were not always in sequence and left large gaps on twitter. The people gisting it were doing an excellent job, but how do you deal with a guy that rambles on for more than an hour in a few 140 character statements?

True. But you can get a reasonable grasp of what he said.

Aim_The Nation ‏@Aim_NT 2h

The PDRC (Suthep's group) has decided it wouldn't let the elderly protesters face tear gas like that: Suthep.

But what if they want to face the tear gas? Why is it up to Suthep? I don't see how it's different from the reds, not like red leaders ordered old women to attack police who were firing tear gas either... however, I suppose if I were being serious, it's best to keep them away even if they want to try to help seize the buildings. Same goes for children.

According to our new maid they were paying 200 baht for women and 300 baht for men at Suthep's rally so she attended.

She also went to the red shirt rally where she got 300 baht.

At the red shirt rally she said the food wasn't very good, the toilets were inoperable and they weren't allowed to leave.

It's sad really because you have all these poor old and handicapped people desperate enough just to go to a political rally to get fed.

None of this surprises me Mr P. If I were to repeat here every anecdote I'd heard over the years about people being paid, pages would be filled, lol. Latest was from a friend that lives in Chinatown and is friends with a few grassroots types. He said many of them are conflicted because they've been offered money to go to this Suthep gig but are red at heart. One friend's daughter wanted to go there and make herself some easy money, but her dad put his foot down on point of principle. The going rate I've heard is slightly higher than you say. Anyone that is on friendly terms with some of the vendors or speaks to people in the fresh markets etc should know the score according to my friend.

Anyway, as I've said before, I don't take this too seriously. I think the stuff about people being bought obscures the real issues. Most people that attend either the red shirt or the anti-govt rallies are doing it because they believe in the cause (rightly or wrongly). If it was all about people being paid, there wouldn't be any real division now. The idea that one rally is made up of paid dupes and the other is made of genuine idealists is nonsense, as much as some people would love to believe it.

I actually put this to a red shirt friend recently - he's kind of middle class but lives in a working class area and talks to a lot of fairly grassroots types on the street - that some of the anti-govt protesters were receiving a stipend. He said 'Sure. But any protest that wants to achieve large numbers needs to offer money. Including ours'. So, like the vote buying thing that's always continually talked up during times like this, I think it's a distraction (see Pasuk & Baker's article in the Post yesterday for a demolition of the vote buying myth btw).

[fareastguy]

Is there anyone on here who can think of a good solution to this ?

As I wrote already in another thread some days ago, the best solution is:

1) Out of the games ALL politicians that ruined this country. The Shin clan, Suthep and same specie...

2) A person above all (neutral and who loves His country), who will install a government formed by technical eminent and neutral personalities.

They must been out from the previous government, if possible young (not teenager huh - lol) and passionate minds, with open mind and open to foreign influences (of course positive ones!), not connected to the Elite and to the influential politicians.

3) Delete corruption, reform democracy, army, police and stress on law enforcement. Reform the disastrous education system. I'd start from here.

Leave this government work for 4 years, after that new elections could be called, but all the old crap politics/elite class must be excluded from that call.

I think this could be a solution, but in Thailand I'm afraid it's pure utopia.

Nice idea but ain't gonna happen in a million years!!

[Noi657]

Aww c'mon just a few more days! The bahts doing so well!

[chooka]

The march from every really site will start at 9.39am.

It really will start at 9:39am...Thai time

I was thinking the same thing, why not 9.30 or 9.45?

[chooka]

The march from every really site will start at 9.39am.

It really will start at 9:39am...Thai time

I was thinking the same thing, why not 9.30 or 9.45?

[Curt1591]

The march from every really site will start at 9.39am.

It really will start at 9:39am...Thai time

I was thinking the same thing, why not 9.30 or 9.45?

It would be 9:99, but there isn't 90 minutes in an hour.

Suthep is a bit of a witch doctor and 9 is a lucky number.

[rogerdee123]

It was a long and painful speech to follow.

As much as people want to say about his protest we have not heard for calls for violence from the stage. He has promised that he will not return to the rally sites. It ends Monday.

Doesn't stop the comrades from ratcheting up the propaganda though

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1386354337.106988.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1386354351.382898.jpg

In addition to monitors on the ground ... Robert Amsterdam has ghost writers in the media.

[GeorgeO]

This guy is a fascist who wants to disenfranchise 61 million people, do away with one person- one vote, and abolish democracy. Then appoint a handful of like minded people to run the country. And the likes of Jdinasia support this! Amazing! I wonder if this would be acceptable in his home country. I suspect not, if he was calling for it there he would be locked up.

Utter nonsense. Suthep has gambled his political career in order to save Thailand from becoming another Philippines. If he had refused to act, after a further two years of this most corrupt government imaginable, Thailand would have found itself deep in the sh1t.

We do not yet really know how bad the finances are, but when this government does fall, mark my words, it will be far worse than we have so far been led to believe, and there's no doubt that the proposed 2.2 tn baht loan will have to be dropped like a hot potato, since the country will have to go through a period of austerity just to get back to where it was before the Shin government took over.

You talk about what's acceptable in other countries. What wouldn't be acceptable in anyone's country is that a government openly strips the nation of its wealth with apparent impunity. If this were any other country these people would have been gone at least eighteen months ago...!!

What's more, most of them would end up in jail in any other country for imbezzling the nation's wealth, and much of that money would be effectively recovered. I just hope that the interim government is quick enough to stop these PTP rats from scurrying away so that they can be held culpable for their criminal acts.

What you've written is utter nonsense. If Thailand's finances are as bad as you say, why hasn't the country been downgraded by the ratings agencies (Moody's, S&P and Fitch)? Do you have some secret access to 'The Truth' that they don't have?

Wait for it ... we are on the verge of that very thing happening ...!! The only reason they haven't jumped in already is because of the lack of transparency in the figures.

[chooka]

Let's pray everything will be solved without violence and will be really over on Monday, even if IMHO, if protest won't be successful, Suthep won't turn himself in, so will be not over.

Tuesday is a public holiday so they will have to try and wrap it up by then.

[Thailand]

Basically Suthep has told the government if you keep it clean and tidy on Monday I will lose then everybody can go home and I can be put out to pasture.

The country may not be run by the govt everybody wants but they have the mandate of the majority. The deluded Suthep and his maniac ideas are not a good alternative.

BTW will Abhisit or any senior Dems be leading the various marches on Monday?

[ManopY]

The march from every really site will start at 9.39am.

It really will start at 9:39am...Thai time

I was thinking the same thing, why not 9.30 or 9.45?

It is obvious that you do not know Thailand and "Thai ways"!

The number "9" is a lucky number and the 9th at 9:39 is very auspicious!

[binjalin]

and he's promised "to give himself up" hopefully to be tried for attempting a coup

we have gone from "Victory Sunday" - 'all will be over'

to "Great Victory Friday" - 'It will be FINISHED I promise - Really this time'

now "Super Victory Monday" - 'I Really, Really, Really Mean It this Time'

government should keep quiet, relax and let Monday pass then call him to account for his "promise" then lock him away in solitary and carry on as normal until elections when they will win AGAIN because the amart elite just have not 'got it'

[96tehtarp]

Step 6: Start the very long drawn out process of blowing the whistle on those guilty of corruption at any level and from any background. Jail them all for a long time to set an example for the rest of society.

I like the sound of that.

Better would be to set up an independent non-elected People's Council Against Corruption in all levels of society. (The PCAC).

Then penalize offenders the same way China does, with a firing squad. The SOP in Thailand is to set up a committee. Then nothing happens.

It's never going to happen though, because of the unmentionable untouchables, and the newly founded "Peoples Council Against Corruption" will itself be easily corrupted.

Edited December 7, 2013 by 96tehtarp

[tominbkk]

Yingluck has offered to resign. Surely that is good enough for a start. This guy keeps demanding more and more: "total extermination". I don't believe this govt has done anything wrong in the way it has handled this situation. Sure, the amnesty bill was badly managed but insufficient grounds to be demanding that the clock to wound back to suit these uber nationalists

She has not.

She has been flip flopping daily for the past week

You can never trust YL to do anything she says she will or won't do. Slippery little eels she and her puppeteer brother are!

Edited December 7, 2013 by tominbkk

[kriswillems]

Realistically, you can expect maximally 100K to 150K people on Monday. I believe Suthep will be able to take the government house in a peaceful way with this amount of people.

But if I stays with the non-violence strategy, that will have no effect at all.

Government will just ignore him and nothing will change. He probably has his flight out of the country booked ...

Another strategy would be the use of extreme violence. In this case the army would have to intervene. But that doesn't make him a winner because I think the army is neutral and they'll not risk to take Suthep as the leader of the country (because of protests of Isaan/red shirts).

One more strategy,could be a personal attack on people. He might have Yingluck killed or locked up. This will for sure lead to extreme violence, and the army will need to intervene (making Suthep a looser again).

The last strategy is that he'll occupy the government house for a long period. In this case his support will slowly get less and less by time. After 1 month, only a very small group will be left.

Of course there's a possibility he has a secret deal with the army, but I doubt it.

There might be a chance something will happen to or something will be done by the royal family that will end this problem.

I don't see how this ever can end in a full victory for Suthep.

[jackrich]

The march from every really site will start at 9.39am.

It really will start at 9:39am...Thai time

I was thinking the same thing, why not 9.30 or 9.45?

It is obvious that you do not know Thailand and "Thai ways"!

The number "9" is a lucky number and the 9th at 9:39 is very auspicious!

Victory must be assured then for dear leader Suthep.

[ManopY]

Realistically, you can expect maximally 100K to 150K people on Monday. I believe Suthep will be able to take the government house in a peaceful way with this amount of people.

But if I stays with the non-violence strategy, that will have no effect at all.

Government will just ignore him and nothing will change. He probably has his flight out of the country booked ...

Another strategy would be the use of extreme violence. In this case the army would have to intervene. But that doesn't make him a winner because I think the army is neutral and they'll not risk to take Suthep as the leader of the country (because of protests of Isaan/red shirts).

One more strategy,could be a personal attack on people. He might have Yingluck killed or locked up. This will for sure lead to extreme violence, and the army will need to intervene (making Suthep a looser again).

The last strategy is that he'll occupy the government house for a long period. In this case his support will slowly get less and less by time. After 1 month, only a very small group will be left.

Of course there's a possibility he has a secret deal with the army, but I doubt it.

There might be a chance something will happen to or something will be done by the royal family that will end this problem.

I don't see how this ever can end in a full victory for Suthep.

Maybe Suthep want to be the head of the new "People government" but what the peoples who are behind him want is to finish with the Shinawatra!

[jackrich]

Step 6: Start the very long drawn out process of blowing the whistle on those guilty of corruption at any level and from any background. Jail them all for a long time to set an example for the rest of society.

I like the sound of that.

Better would be to set up an independent non-elected People's Council Against Corruption in all levels of society. (The PCAC).

Then penalize offenders the same way China does, with a firing squad. The SOP in Thailand is to set up a committee. Then nothing happens.

It's never going to happen though, because of the unmentionable untouchables, and the newly founded "Peoples Council Against Corruption" will itself be easily corrupted.

If you start arresting everyone that is corrupt in Thailand, you would have to arrest everyone from the security guard at your residential community, the doctor at your hospital, the cashier at the 7/11, the police officer standing down the street, your kids teacher at school, the immigration official that does your visa ...

Understand what I mean? Corruption in Thailand stars at kindergarten level. If you don't fix the problem from the ground up and restructure the entire society, you will never get rid of corruption in Thailand.

Start by teaching little kids not to throw garbage on the streets. Then increase salaries for ordinary citizens everywhere so they don't have to take bribes in order to survive.

Edited December 7, 2013 by jackrich

[cacruden]

Well we did have V-Day, now apparently after V-Day we are going to have D-Day (sounds backwards to me... but heh).... then all that will be left is VD day....

[bifftastic]

Another false dawn...like all the others. Why does he not create a political party and run at the next election

Ooh ooh ooh.Please sir, I know this one I know this one!

Because he wouldn't win.

[jackrich]

Another false dawn...like all the others. Why does he not create a political party and run at the next election

Ooh ooh ooh.Please sir, I know this one I know this one!

Because he wouldn't win.

Bingo!

[Ricardo]

Suthep is like one of those "End of the World" church leaders. Whenever the date of the end of the world has passed, they will set a new date.

Does anyone know where I can book Suthep for my kid's birthday party?

I think he & Chalerm would make a great double-act !

Hope it stays relatively-peaceful.

[Jawnie]

My god, can't anyone keep him away from a calendar??!!

[jackrich]

Can you spot the difference?