Suthep: wrong man at the right time?

[jdinasia]

This reply makes no sense. Let's remember for a second that the majority voted for Puea Thai.

Ummm no, they didn't.

Riding the backs of the deaths in BKK, PTP still pulled less than 50% of the votes cast. Today I would expect a result closer to that of 2007, when they got about 36% (still slightly more than the dems 30%) but I doubt they would be able to form the government again. (Yes that is speculation, but informed speculation)

That scenario could in fact lead to good things. The creation of a non-imposed "Unity Government".

[Dogmatix]

He appeals to the amart's supporters and the brain washed, No more, No less, and attempted a coup against a democratically elected government

hopefully he will fail for Thailand's sake

Thaksin, his family and cronies are the new amarts and their supporters are brainwashed to accept corruption on a massive scale and disrespect for rule of law that will bankrupt the country, as long as they receive a few crumbs from time to time.

[Dogmatix]

Has anyone had a look at SUTHEPS bank account bet he has more money than most of us falangs look at his corruption record in Phuket a peoples self elected government no wonder they call it AMAZING THAILAND.

That's why the article suggests he is the wrong man at the right time. It takes a crazy man to lead a protest like this and he is well qualified. Who else was prepared to take on the job on behalf of the millions who are disgusted with the Thaksin government.

[SamMunich]

Can we please, PLEASE stop this nonsense about the democratic election of that bunch of thieves from PTP? Democratic and vote-buying do NOT (dig it?) fit together... They are the opposite!

Those high priests of democracy, that not only wanted to give amnesty to a guy, who was convicted as a corrupt leader, but wanted to wipe out ALL corruption cases of the last nine years with this amnesty? We are talking of tousands of cases and tens, maybe hundreds of billions of Baht of corruption money! Is that all so democratic, is that all so in the best interest of the simple man on the street or in the fields? Who do you try to fool? Yourself?

Ask yourself and the Redshirts, why their people are still sitting in jail since 3 years? Because only WITH them can Taksin hope to come back, so he will not allow an amnesty for the small guys, who got caught up in the 2010 trouble. They could be home since long, if it weren't for Taksin then loosing his shield, as he is hiding behind them...

Now about Suthep. I think most people don't love him as a person, but they support him in what he is doing NOW. So simple. Because else nobody would be following him, nobody would listen to him. So simple.

As for Yingluck, her image lies in shambles, her face is worn off and broken, she would propably have stepped down since long, if not her brother and the other big-shots of PTP would have forbidden it. He wants to come back and needs her for that, they don't want to loose their direct connection to corruption moeny big time, as it is now.

(re-editing: took out some formatting codes, that showed up)

Edited December 7, 2013 by SamMunich

[Prbkk]

PTP 48.1%

Bill Clinton 43.0%

Both elected, democratically. In democracies, it is usual to count % of votes cast to determine the winner rather than engage in meaningless and disingenuous references to eligible voters ( some of whom decide not to vote)

[tragickingdom]

Suthep is not only the wrong man, it is also the wrong time. First of all Suthep as a poster boy or the anti corruption movement is as bizar as Sondhi was before. Sondhi has left numerous creditors out in the cold and robbed billions from the Krungthai bank, only when Thaksin sacked the MD of that bank he became not the best PM but worst PM ever. Now we have Suthep who was not only involved in the Phuket land scandal 20 years ago, but was banned from politics for precisely the same offence Thaksin was sentenced for "conflict of interest" and mister Suthep was involved in the palm oils price rigging scandal as well in bribe taking by the appointment of a new police general. On top of that he ordered what he despises right now, a crack down on protesters and a very bloody one too. But what about the right time? Come on. Thailand was quiet and peaceful, toursim was booming the stock market was going up far faster than any other market and investment was booming. The time is wrong too, because first we must establish reeducation camps in which the Bangkok elite must be following classes for a few weeks to teach them about democracy and how to change a government after 4 years. If the Democrat Party wants to take power at the right time, they need to get their boots on the ground in Izan and see for themselves what poverty is and not form an opinion from a Bangkok office.

[jdinasia]

PTP 48.1%

Bill Clinton 43.0%

Both elected, democratically. In democracies, it is usual to count % of votes cast to determine the winner rather than engage in meaningless and disingenuous references to eligible voters ( some of whom decide not to vote)

Majority=50%+1 (of votes cast as I stated before) less than that is a plurality. The US does not use the popular vote to determine the President. (Just as Thailand does not use the popular vote cast to determine the PM) The US uses the electoral college and a president and not the Westminster syte parliament and the PM. (Disingenuous is to talk about votes cast and deny the other person said exactly that)

Back to the story, Suthep historically represents what is wrong with the regional electorates in Thailand. They are dominated by power families. While many informed people will realize this there are far far more that will look at his scandals during the Chuan Leepai administration as ancient history. Like the article above states, they will see someone that risked it all on a personal level to fight what he sees as wrong for the country. I personally do not think he's a great face for the cause, but then again who is, that would be willing to be the face for this fight?

[billd766]

I don't think anybody doubts the corruption and mistakes/wrong doings of the current government.

However, they were democratically elected.

Democracy means you stick to the results of an official election untill the next election, even if the government does things you don't like.

Creating a "people's council", probably containing all yellow shirts, would have no legal or constitutional grounds and give the redshirts a legitimate reason to start the massive protests all over again because they would be, once again, illegally replaced by the opposition. This would create a never ending circle, bringing only more misery and problems for the country and the people.

The only way for the opposition to legally take over the government, is by winning the elections. But in order to do so, they must make the Thai people understand WHY the Thaksin regime is bad for the country.

If they can't do that, they must wait and hope that the people will come to "see the light" themselves and realize they made the wrong choice.

Trying to illegally remove a government which has been democratically elected will only end up in a never ending spiral of violence, problems and misery.

Wait for the next elections or dissolve the House and create new elections: that's the only correct way to go.

Looks good on paper but does not explain how the minority of voters get to tell tthe majority of voters who is the boss and what to do.

You and I have an obviously different idea of what democracy is.

Your idea falls more in line with dictatorship.

This reply makes no sense. Let's remember for a second that the majority voted for Puea Thai.

Let us also remember that the majority of the Thai people did NOT vote for Puea Thai.

Granted that they had a majority of seats in parliament but definitely not the majority of votes unless you are using PTP maths where 43% of the vote is bigger than 57%.

One day I will be rich enough to buy a computer that can spell correctly until then I have to edit the damn thing myself.

Edited December 7, 2013 by billd766

[Prbkk]

No, it is universally accepted. This plurality line is a crock and a diversion. Under your regime, some disaffected groups could decide anytime, anywhere...we don't like this govt anymore, let's have a riot or a coup. I don't like it,

[billd766]

Has anyone had a look at SUTHEPS bank account bet he has more money than most of us falangs look at his corruption record in Phuket a peoples self elected government no wonder they call it AMAZING THAILAND.

Many falangs and Thais have more money than I do but what does that prove?

Please list for all the readers to see just how many times Suthep has been charged, gone to court, been found guilty and gone to jail.

If my memory is still working then the answer is none. If I am wrong I promise I will apologise. If I am correct, will you apologise?

And just for the record, Thaksin has been charged with a crime, gone to court, been found guilty and then skipped bail and fled the country to become a convicted criminal fugitive.

If I am wrong on that I will apologise also.

[aaacorp]

No, it is universally accepted. This plurality line is a crock and a diversion. Under your regime, some disaffected groups could decide anytime, anywhere...we don't like this govt anymore, let's have a riot or a coup. I don't like it,

Riots? You re in favor of violence? A coup? The last one brought so much good things as we can see...

[hellodolly]

I don't think anybody doubts the corruption and mistakes/wrong doings of the current government.

However, they were democratically elected.

Democracy means you stick to the results of an official election untill the next election, even if the government does things you don't like.

Creating a "people's council", probably containing all yellow shirts, would have no legal or constitutional grounds and give the redshirts a legitimate reason to start the massive protests all over again because they would be, once again, illegally replaced by the opposition. This would create a never ending circle, bringing only more misery and problems for the country and the people.

The only way for the opposition to legally take over the government, is by winning the elections. But in order to do so, they must make the Thai people understand WHY the Thaksin regime is bad for the country.

If they can't do that, they must wait and hope that the people will come to "see the light" themselves and realize they made the wrong choice.

Trying to illegally remove a government which has been democratically elected will only end up in a never ending spiral of violence, problems and misery.

Wait for the next elections or dissolve the House and create new elections: that's the only correct way to go.

Looks good on paper but does not explain how the minority of voters get to tell tthe majority of voters who is the boss and what to do.

You and I have an obviously different idea of what democracy is.

Your idea falls more in line with dictatorship.

This reply makes no sense. Let's remember for a second that the majority voted for Puea Thai.

Why try to walk the line. You are obviousley a Thaksin supporter come out and admit it and forget the stupid posts.

Also you are not good at simple arithmetic. 48% is a minority 52% is a majority.

tjhis means that 52% of the people did not want your man.

Then we get to common sense. The red shirts are not the sharpest knifes in the drawer. Many of the 48% thought they were going to get Yingluck.

We have no facts but common sense tells us that if the Yellow shirts would have voted it would be a much wider spread. But just stick with the facts we know to be true. The PTP was not wanted by the majority.

[newcomer71]

Post auto-removed

Edited December 7, 2013 by newcomer71

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed, this is not about Thaksin's war on drugs or Takbai.

[Pi Sek]

Yes, Suthep is a nasty piece of work. Yes, he is angelic compared with Thaksin. Yes, Yinglak's government is irresponsible and its incompetence is breathtaking. And yes, Yinglak should step down and new elections held, which PTP (or its rebirth under a new name) will most likely win, even if their parliamentary mandate might not be so strong.

But what I've really noticed through these recent protests is that the Thai people only seem to sit up and take notice of what's being said when it's done from a rally stage. Newspapers and TV news don't seem to convey any message of untowards-ness in parliamentary affairs (or, if they do, the audience is apathetic). The country is becoming more divided, the economy is as bad as I've seen it since 2001 (OK, world factors have had a big impact), the government has absolutely failed on doing what it said it would do, and both the government and its opposition are leaning towards fascist traits - yet Thais still only come out to voice their objections when there's a protest on. So it makes sense that politics is successfully conducted on a stage rather than in parliament.

Sad really.

[wealth]

Suthep will probably get out after Monday, but the students will continue. Not even half way through yet.

[pipergsm]

I don't think anybody doubts the corruption and mistakes/wrong doings of the current government.

However, they were democratically elected.

Democracy means you stick to the results of an official election untill the next election, even if the government does things you don't like.

Creating a "people's council", probably containing all yellow shirts, would have no legal or constitutional grounds and give the redshirts a legitimate reason to start the massive protests all over again because they would be, once again, illegally replaced by the opposition. This would create a never ending circle, bringing only more misery and problems for the country and the people.

The only way for the opposition to legally take over the government, is by winning the elections. But in order to do so, they must make the Thai people understand WHY the Thaksin regime is bad for the country.

If they can't do that, they must wait and hope that the people will come to "see the light" themselves and realize they made the wrong choice.

Trying to illegally remove a government which has been democratically elected will only end up in a never ending spiral of violence, problems and misery.

Wait for the next elections or dissolve the House and create new elections: that's the only correct way to go.

Looks good on paper but does not explain how the minority of voters get to tell tthe majority of voters who is the boss and what to do.

You and I have an obviously different idea of what democracy is.

Your idea falls more in line with dictatorship.

Dictatorship?????

Tell me: what's the use of democratic elections, if you keep on overthrowing the government every time they make an unpopular decision or when they want to do something you don't like?

In a democracy, you listen to, AND ACCEPT, the voice of the majority, untill the next election.

If the government does something illegal or unconstitutional, you make them stand down and write out new elections.

That's how a true democracy works!

What's happening here, are 2 opposite sites, starting to hit each other whenever they can't win the argument with words, and simply try to take over by "right of the strongest".

That's definitely not democracy, and ultimately makes a country ungovernable with all the negative consequences.

This isn't about who's right and who's wrong, but about upholding democratic principles, even if you don't like the outcome of it.

[icare999]

Just to repeat myself. The current gov won a clear, democratic mandate to govern Thailand. While they are undoubtedly corrupt and incompetent, they are no more so than the yellow shirts or most other governments. Overall, Thailand, with Ms Y in charge, was doing ok, econ, and so forth chugging along. So, leave them alone! If you want to take office, stand for election. If you want to discuss who is harming Thailand, look to the current protests and the resultant economic decline.

your wrong its not just the corruption and incompetent its the chance of Thailand becoming a one party police state totally under the control of one evil megalomaniac. This has never in my 30 years here happened before in that you never before had total power and control slowly being taken by one person and his clan. Whatever the problems before the party in power and Pm had to watch out since their were always before several viable alternatives. Taksin has managed to create a state where he totally controls all government MP's and most of powerful positions such as police and judiciary.

If as seems quite probable he continues within a short period their will be no way anyone good or bad could unseat him weather or not their are elections. He will be in total control just like many dictators around the world before and now. It will remain to be seen weather he simply becomes a Gaddafi or a Mugabwie or possibly a pol pot but be sure he will turn Thailand into his own one party state within 5-10c years.

Those now talking BS about a democratic elected government will see if he gets away with it how stupid and naive they have been.

I doubt Suphet is the right man but who knows. He seemed only one able and willing to make a stand and to gather large support. And please don't give me that crap about protestors being paid since a lot of my wife's family and friends from both up here in Taksin red shirt land and in BKK are so insenced with what Taksin is doing they attend without payment. In any case they all have jobs and while a lot of them are still very poor they are sincere in their opposition. I don't know but I assume some of guards are paid. I do know however for a fact that up here in Taksin red village land most go for payment which does not mean they are not also convinced but they are definitely paid and IMO most are totally brainwashed. Here we have at most times red shirt announcements over village speakers and red radio and TV channel. I kid you not it is a constant stream of brainwashing. They leave us alone but if my wife was not married to a forang it would be totally expected for her to attend all red shirt meetings or else.

After 30 years here if it gets any worse we will have to lock and board our home here and move to another part of thailand that is not controlled totally by red shirt gang. Its liveable with at moment but I know the very few other forangs around here left already and were only ones left. We have had no intimidation and my wife has refused to attend any red meetings which so far has only resulted in disapproval and mild intimidation I think due to my presence. I know other Thais here have told my wife privelty they dare not attend.

We will see. Ive made our plans in case but will stick it out here for a while longer hoping against hope that it will go away. Next step will be to move down south to a totally non Taksin area or to one of cities here where red shirt emacs is not so prevalent and wait a few years to see what happens here. It will mean having to rent since id not risk buying here again and disrupt our family life a lot. But were quite lucky our children are nearly grown and we moved them to a boarding school a few years back when this all started and our area became a red shirt controlled village as well as surrounding areas.

Of course most of people here wont see it coming before its to late same as victims of Natzi Germany and/or other places such as ZImbabwie, North Korea, Iran, Iraq and several other places.

[Rhys]

The yang of the ying

[fab4]

This reply makes no sense. Let's remember for a second that the majority voted for Puea Thai.

Ummm no, they didn't.

Riding the backs of the deaths in BKK, PTP still pulled less than 50% of the votes cast. Today I would expect a result closer to that of 2007, when they got about 36% (still slightly more than the dems 30%) but I doubt they would be able to form the government again. (Yes that is speculation, but informed speculation)

That scenario could in fact lead to good things. The creation of a non-imposed "Unity Government".

Probably one of your most disgusting posts so far. Pompous ignorance from you, I can put up with, but your assertion that the PTP campaigned

"Riding the backs of the deaths in BKK"

is way over the line of common decency. At least have the good grace to take back that statement.

[intravox]

How could any right minded person favour Thaksin just because Suthep was doomed to failure? This forum is padded with Thaksin sympathisers, idiots or both...the amnesty bill is toast as should Thaksin's aspirations to return home unheeded be. Thailand is morally bankrupt right now and a laughing stock again in Asia as the ASEAN 'brotherhood' approaches. Thaksin has destroyed any credibility the country might have had, a result of his manoeuvres to outwit the dumb-shit masses, and the elites who despise him. I despise him too as I try to teach my children that their country is still a nation to be proud of - albeit with increasing difficulty. They do understand however that sister Yingluck is the equivalent of Palin being president in the trusty US of A. That was an easy fix!

[sjaak327]

Just to repeat myself. The current gov won a clear, democratic mandate to govern Thailand. While they are undoubtedly corrupt and incompetent, they are no more so than the yellow shirts or most other governments. Overall, Thailand, with Ms Y in charge, was doing ok, econ, and so forth chugging along. So, leave them alone! If you want to take office, stand for election. If you want to discuss who is harming Thailand, look to the current protests and the resultant economic decline.

You have obviously not seen the latest corruption ratings. Under Yingluck they have been becoming more corrupt. Like an Atlas rocket taking off for the moon.

You also forgot that it was a clear mandate from the majority of a little over 500 people many on the pay roll of Thaksin the owner of the party that voted her in. If you want to talk about the citizen voters they had a minority. But why cloud reality with facts go ahead keep repeating what you know to be false.

Actually the current goverment has the support of over 53% on both constituenty and proportional votes. Which in both cases is a majority.

[jdinasia]

Actually the current goverment has the support of over 53% on both constituenty and proportional votes. Which in both cases is a majority.

Incorrect. Less than 50% on both. 53% total seats. Very very different than your claim.

Majority is 50%+1

They have a majority of seats in the lower house.

They did not get 50% of the votes in either constituency or proportional voting.

edit typo

Edited December 7, 2013 by jdinasia

[sjaak327]

Actually the current goverment has the support of over 53% on both constituenty and proportional votes. Which in both cases is a majority.

Incorrect. Less than 50% on both. 53% total seats. Very very different than your claim.

Majority is 50%+1

They have a mojority of seats in the lower house.

They did not get 50% of the votes in either constituency or proportional voting.

How is it incorrect ? I am not talking about PT, I am talking about the current government, which is a coalition government consiting of 5 parties. These 5 parties did have over 53% on both counts, which is more than 50+1.

The current governent does have 60% of seats, not 53.

Edited December 7, 2013 by sjaak327

[nullx8]

somethings tells me he will be back in the party with a leading position just minutes after he will fail on the 9th

[gerry1011]

Wrong man. Anytime!

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AbuBacon]

Put it down to an end of life crisis. The man is as mad as a march hare . euthenasia not a bad idea for this despicable despot

Sent from my Lenovo A516 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[seminomadic]

In MHO Suthep has done for the Thai people what no one else had done for a long while. The people here have been living under with the assumption that corruption is okay at any level of government at any time.

Suthep has decided that he wants this corrupt government out; for whatever reasons is unknown to me and probably you too; and has gotten a vast number of people out to help him fell this corruption.

So I disagree that Suthep has caused problems for Thailand, but has instead helped them. He has woken them to the incredible corruption that they are now facing. The financial issues faced by the populace was not his in the making but was the government's. Which many posters here have pointed out as being the elected party for the past two decades. So, if they have been elected for two decades it can't possibly be anyone's fault but theirs for the problems facing the Thai people at this time!

I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. Since you can't see through the fact that Suthep, rather than standing against corruption on principle (a masochistic exercise in his case), he's kicking and screaming about "the Thaksin regime". Why not go on and on against corruption rather than just the incumbents? ANSWER: He's a power-monger who at the moment is an also-ran.

"For whatever reasons, unknown to me and probably you too"

OMG man. Back away from the computer and read a book. And I mean any book. Seriously, at the stage of mental processing you've just professed here, any book is going to be progress for you.

"So I disagree that Suthep has caused problems for Thailand, but has instead helped them."

You're right. he has helped Bangkokians' and southerners' sense of overarching arrogance with regard to the rest of the country.

Here's proof, from page two of the NYT piece on these events:

Protesters did little to hide their sense of superiority, echoing the leaders of the demonstration who repeatedly described the demonstrators as “good people” fighting evil.

“We are the middle class, we are educated and we know best,” said Saowanee Usanakornkul, 43, from southern Thailand who took part in the protest. “We know what is right and wrong,” she said. “But the poor don’t know anything. They elect the people who give them money.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/world/asia/thailand-protests-reflect-searing-divisions-of-changing-country.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&smid=tw-share

Do you want to play the whole "She's right, all of their votes are bought up in the Northeast- I know this b/c I love drinking Bangkokian Yellowshirt Kool-Aid!"?

Maybe read this first:

http://asiancorrespondent.com/116697/vote-buying-thaksin-and-the-democrats/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+BangkokPundit+(Bangkok+Pundit)

I know it's a lot for you to read. I know drinking Kool-Aid is much easier than realizing Suthep is just a demagogue, playing to Bangkokians' and the elite's need to stay closest to the trough, who wants to maximize short-term personal gain from manufacturing a crisis.

Edited December 7, 2013 by seminomadic

[jdinasia]

Actually the current goverment has the support of over 53% on both constituenty and proportional votes. Which in both cases is a majority.

Incorrect. Less than 50% on both. 53% total seats. Very very different than your claim.

Majority is 50%+1

They have a mojority of seats in the lower house.

They did not get 50% of the votes in either constituency or proportional voting.

How is it incorrect ? I am not talking about PT, I am talking about the current government, which is a coalition government consiting of 5 parties. These 5 parties did have over 53% on both counts, which is more than 50+1.

The current governent does have 60% of seats, not 53.

I stand corrected I assumed you meant the only part of the government that counts. PTP

[sjaak327]

Actually the current goverment has the support of over 53% on both constituenty and proportional votes. Which in both cases is a majority.

Incorrect. Less than 50% on both. 53% total seats. Very very different than your claim.

Majority is 50%+1

They have a mojority of seats in the lower house.

They did not get 50% of the votes in either constituency or proportional voting.

How is it incorrect ? I am not talking about PT, I am talking about the current government, which is a coalition government consiting of 5 parties. These 5 parties did have over 53% on both counts, which is more than 50+1.

The current governent does have 60% of seats, not 53.

I stand corrected I assumed you meant the only part of the government that counts. PTP

Haha. No I did mean the whole government, which in this discussion IS the only valid thing to do, we are discussing the mandate of the government, in which case the coalition partners do need to count.