PM offers House dissolution and national election

[ianf]

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

There is a myth circulating that PTP were the winners of a democratic election. Wrong.

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

It's about allowing your opponents to speak and campaign: PTP drove them out of 'their' areas, threatened some people in some villages if they did not vote for PTP and encouraged their supporters to deface Democrat posters throughout the country.

It's about offering and discussing policies rather than bribes**

**(Computers for all kids, was a bribe not a policy, less than 10% are now used for education purposes; tax refund on car purchase was another bribe - this was not linked to any transport policy; extraordinarily high prices for rice - a bribe to the farmers in exchange for their support but not part of a sustainable agro-policy where, for example, the increased use of soil damaging fertilizers to create higher yields and therefore income is totally anti- any thought out agro policy.

And on and on and on ....

Until greater things happen and Thailand is in the hands of the Thaksin dictatorship.

And where is the proof of that? I keep reading these accusations but the reality is that my 5 year old makes things up too. Doesn't mean that it's true.

If you don't have the proof - maybe you can tell me the current weather situation in dream land?

The proof is all around for those that open their eyes, hearts and minds.

[Estrada]

I thought Suthep had already made it clear they don't want elections, they just want a peoples council with him as secretary general, despite this being his last involvement in politics

Suthep is like Gaddhafi.

Gaddhafi also had a people's council and declared to the world that he was not really the leader of the country, but just the leader of the revolution.

I worked for Colonel Gaddafi for 6 years. I agree that Suthep's proposal for a People's Council is not dissimilar to Gaddafi's People's Council and is really a Dictatorship run, not by the people but by a privileged few. The Libyan People's Council was controlled by Gaddafi and his family and similar to Thailand, the People's Council syphoned off money from Construction Projects and took bribes from Major Foreign Companies such as Siemens. In 1977, when Gaddafi's People's Council took over the Country, Tripoli was a booming Modern City, whilst Dubai was mainly desert, sand and a few shop houses. For the 34 years that Gaddafi was in Power, the Libyan people became amongst the poorest in the region with decaying infrastructure, whilst Gaddafi spent millions on Palaces and parties. Dubai on the other hand has become one of the richest and most modern Countries in the World. God help us if Suthep succeeds in overturning democracy and installing a People's Council.

[Felt 35]

I bet Mr T` have checked the balance sheets and found his business emporium goes in more than surplus so he have given the sister green light to another election and another give out round upcountry.

[ianf]

That's what she offered in the first place. And then the idiots in her government said the opposite. And now she's back with the same offer.

What the hell is wrong with this government? Make up your bloody minds already!

It seems that maybe her strings are not being pulled by the puppet master, and that he is playing with his other puppets at the moment. The new head guy of CAPO is definitely mimicking the puppet masters words.

She should resign because it is obvious she doesn't control her MP's mouths. Too many deputy prime ministers and deputy ministers to be able to speak with one voice IMO!

The new head guy of CAPO was appointed by Thaksin: he is a known Thaksin loyalist.

Edited December 8, 2013 by ianf

[pookiki]

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away. If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

Maybe we should adopt the dogma of the IWW (Industrial Workers of the World) and do away with money altogether. If you think the rice pledging scheme is a problem, wait until you have to go to Sisaket and barter for rice!

Edited December 8, 2013 by pookiki

[ggold]

That's what she offered in the first place. And then the idiots in her government said the opposite. And now she's back with the same offer.

What the hell is wrong with this government? Make up your bloody minds already!

It seems that maybe her strings are not being pulled by the puppet master, and that he is playing with his other puppets at the moment. The new head guy of CAPO is definitely mimicking the puppet masters words.

She should resign because it is obvious she doesn't control her MP's mouths. Too many deputy prime ministers and deputy ministers to be able to speak with one voice IMO!

The new head guy of CAPO was appointed by Thaksin: he is a known Thaksin loyalist.

even a member of the family through marriage I believe!

[pookiki]

I really don't understand why the Propaganda Merchants

or Perception management shills for the Damned Hampster really think

bombarding TVF with this utter tripe will actual make their case a winner?

I guess they get paid so they just do it.

This seems to be the logic of last resort for those who can't engage in an honest debate on this forum. You are the ultimate shill.

[catweazle]

Tragic that a small number of protestors are able to achieve this (if there will be new elections).

On the other hand, if there will be new elections, I think that the Suthep-team only have shot them self in the foot, and they will lose the election (again) big time!. Either way, in short term Thailand has only lost on this embarrassing show led by Suthep.

In the long term though, hopefully this farce can be a reminder that elections are held to be respected!

(Although I´m not counting on it, this is Thailand after all).

Well said! Your choice of words as well as your signature gives the impression that you have been around much longer than for a mere 21 posts - got kicked out by our beloved global moderators and re-entered under a new name, huh?

[UncleJ]

Why is the minority allowed to cause all this turmoil?

For decades they pillaged this country, ignored & abused the poor.

Now the poor (majority) are finally organized the shoe is on the other foot.

Good I say.

Lock the crybabies (sore losers) up.

[khunken]

I thought Suthep had already made it clear they don't want elections, they just want a peoples council with him as secretary general, despite this being his last involvement in politics

Suthep is like Gaddhafi.

Gaddhafi also had a people's council and declared to the world that he was not really the leader of the country, but just the leader of the revolution.

And just look at the mess that is Libya now.

Suthep has left himself open to all sorts of criticism - some deserved, some not - but why perpetuate the lie about him being the leader of a people's council?

A referendum on the constitution is what's needed - to suspend it, rewrite it or let it stand. Suspension would open the way for a people's council with a nominee from PTP & the Dems plus an agreed independent somebody to select the make up.

There was a referendum on the Constitution if my memory serves me correctly. Is Suthep saying you have to scrap the current Constitution because the Constitution Court said you can't change the current Constitution so as to upset the current balance of powers??? Whose not accepting the court's opinion?

Your knockers are in a twist.

The current constitution was accepted by referendum. The CC earlier this year ruled that if PTP wanted to rewrite it, they must ask the people first - i.e. hold a referendum. Thaksin refused because he was afraid of losing.

If you actually read my post you would see that I'm (as well as some in Suthep's camp) advocating a referendum which gets around all the so-called experts saying that this or that is unconstitutional. Vote buying tends to be more difficult when personalities are less involved.

[wilcopops]

So there's an election....and who will win?

If the Democrats and others concentrated on trying to win over the public rather than wresting power from the incumbent, they might get a better result in elections.

Lets face it they are no more or less corrupt than Pheu Thai - just richer and more middle class.

it's like trying to choose between the Tea-party and the GOP....frying pan / fire job.......

[SOTIRIOS]

...so the soap opera charades continue.........

...offer to resign,,,,,,,

...but make the excuse that the party will not allow you to....

[sawadee1947]

well done, PM. I think that's the best solution. Probably she will be elected again. HOPEFULLY

[Arkady]

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

There is a myth circulating that PTP were the winners of a democratic election. Wrong.

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

It's about allowing your opponents to speak and campaign: PTP drove them out of 'their' areas, threatened some people in some villages if they did not vote for PTP and encouraged their supporters to deface Democrat posters throughout the country.

It's about offering and discussing policies rather than bribes**

**(Computers for all kids, was a bribe not a policy, less than 10% are now used for education purposes; tax refund on car purchase was another bribe - this was not linked to any transport policy; extraordinarily high prices for rice - a bribe to the farmers in exchange for their support but not part of a sustainable agro-policy where, for example, the increased use of soil damaging fertilizers to create higher yields and therefore income is totally anti- any thought out agro policy.) From the red stages in 2010 and during the subsequent election campaign, no policies were on offer, there was no (what Hitler called) 'argumentation' - but there was a shed load Of emotional manipulation.

And on and on and on ....

A Thaksin dictatorship is the ultimate goal and off course this must be stopped. I give my full support to Suthep - a brave man indeed given Thaksin's vile human rights record.!

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

That's what Yingluck said in the speech someone wrote for the dumbcluck to read out in Mongolia. When Veronica Pedrosa quoted it back at her in her Al Jazeera interview she seemed confused, as if she didn't recognise the words and started talking gibberish.

[Gsxrnz]

Thailand politicians of all colours are running around fighting over who should have the right to rearrange the deckchairs or decide what song the orchestra should play, oblivious to the fact that the iceberg is well astern and the ship is taking on water.

[wilcopops]

Well, well, one more rigged election to endure. TIT.

Sadly both sides are equally capable of rigging electoral results - it's just that at this point the Dems have more motivation.

Edited December 8, 2013 by wilcopops

[UncleJ]

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away. If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

Is the problem 'gifts to the uneducated poor' or is the problem the 'educated abusing the poor" for all these decades?

I'm pro poor and supporting them is the moral thing to do.

[Carrerakiss]

Tragic that a small number of protestors are able to achieve this (if there will be new elections).

On the other hand, if there will be new elections, I think that the Suthep-team only have shot them self in the foot, and they will lose the election (again) big time!. Either way, in short term Thailand has only lost on this embarrassing show led by Suthep.

In the long term though, hopefully this farce can be a reminder that elections are held to be respected!

(Although I´m not counting on it, this is Thailand after all).

They have had fairly large numbers, as well as protests in places like Khon Kaen. The alliance against the current government is fairly broad across different sectors of society as well.

It seems that a large number of people do not understand how either governments nor elections are supposed to work particularly under the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy.

The assumption that PTP would win again in a big way is very probably not accurate. I would suspect something like the 2007 election results with a smaller gap between parties disputing the elections and a required coalition government where smaller groups are actually listened to. During this entire crisis have you seen or heard of ANY group meeting of the coalition partners currently in place? No. Have you seen or heard of minor coalition partners suggesting alternatives to PTP rule? (If you have paid attention, then yes.)

Does any of the media even pretend that any party in the government coalition mattters other than PTP? No.

Will YL who sits as the chair of the government body regarding Human Trafficking answer any questions about the recently emerged scandal? No

Rice pledging scheme answers? No.

Flood control answers? no

As Defense minister what has she done? Nothing.

Did she speak out against the last minute changes in the amnesty bill and denying the opposition even the chance at debating those changes to get the objections into the parliamentary record? No

Did she blame everything on the PTP MP's yes, Is she one of them Yes. Does she then take the out, I am the PM they did it on their own. Yes.

Is the country in more debt now than before? Yes

Is there a written plan for the 2.2 TRILLION baht? No

Could this list go on for pages? Yes.

When the government runs roughshod over the system, denies the courts validity, and works for the benefit of bringing back the PM's brother in a way that absolves him of his conviction, and whitewashes all the other cases against him, and tries to eliminate 2500+ corruption cases, etc etc etc .. it is not acting as a democracy. So why pretend?

Because it wouldn't be any different were the Democrats in charge?

When the future for thai politics is as bleak as it is, better to pretend all is fine and then life can go on as it has for the last twenty plus years without all and sundry committing suicide out of depression.

[Siripon]

Well done Suthep, 2 months ago, few would have believed you could push the government this far.

They may win the next election, but there is no doubt you have galvanized many Thais to take an interest in politics.

You have shown there is more to democracy than winning an election and then just doing what you want - as Pheua Thai found out to their cost.

What have been the achievements of Pheua Thai the last 2 and a half years? The only one I can think of is the minimum wage of 300 baht. That is a good thing.

What will they promise next time? The rice mortgage scheme is on the point of collapse with massive stockpiles slowly rotting.

The 100,000 baht tax waiver first car scheme has depressed the economy as many buyers lack purchasing power- too busy paying off the installments.

Will they still use Thaksin's name as a selling point? and if not what will be the selling point of Yingluck if she runs again?

Probably something inane such as -' Together, a better tomorrow with Yingluck'

[pkspeaker]

Yea and I have posted this on just about every thread because this false charge keeps rearing it's ugly head. The previous post-coup elections were monitored domestically and internationally, there was extra scrutiny because of the 'vote buying' charge; there was not significant voter fraud or vote-buying in the elections, Yingluck won by a large margin-meaning that vote fraud would not have mattered because it typically only matters in close elections. Yingluck won, and the democrats are just as 'corrupt' as any other thai political party.

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

There is a myth circulating that PTP were the winners of a democratic election. Wrong.

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

It's about allowing your opponents to speak and campaign: PTP drove them out of 'their' areas, threatened some people in some villages if they did not vote for PTP and encouraged their supporters to deface Democrat posters throughout the country.

It's about offering and discussing policies rather than bribes**

**(Computers for all kids, was a bribe not a policy, less than 10% are now used for education purposes; tax refund on car purchase was another bribe - this was not linked to any transport policy; extraordinarily high prices for rice - a bribe to the farmers in exchange for their support but not part of a sustainable agro-policy where, for example, the increased use of soil damaging fertilizers to create higher yields and therefore income is totally anti- any thought out agro policy.) From the red stages in 2010 and during the subsequent election campaign, no policies were on offer, there was no (what Hitler called) 'argumentation' - but there was a shed load Of emotional manipulation.

And on and on and on ....

A Thaksin dictatorship is the ultimate goal and off course this must be stopped. I give my full support to Suthep - a brave man indeed given Thaksin's vile human rights record.!

Edited December 8, 2013 by pkspeaker

[Jackson86]

Even with elections, yingluck will still win and perhaps speed up suthep's demise since the election results will definitely put yellow shirts down.

[GrantSmith]

So the Dems are going to resign... Over to you PTP...

[khunken]

So there's an election....and who will win?

If the Democrats and others concentrated on trying to win over the public rather than wresting power from the incumbent, they might get a better result in elections.

Lets face it they are no more or less corrupt than Pheu Thai - just richer and more middle class.

it's like trying to choose between the Tea-party and the GOP....frying pan / fire job.......

First you don't have to post half a dozen times to make your point. Yes, I know TV was having problems but pressing post repeatedly doesn't solve them.

Second the Dems are not richer than PTP. PTP have a damn site more money backing them which enables them to buy more votes. Both parties have rich, middle-income & poor supporters.

Far too many Farangs fail miserably to understand that Thai politics & parties have no equivalent in the west. Yes, greed is universal in politics but ideology is not part of local party politics.

[sawadee1947]

well done, PM. I think that's the best solution. Probably she will be elected again. HOPEFULLY

[benny1616]

yingluck is very smart and very intelligent women. at least much more then the everage thai politician and much more as everyone from the so called opositon and therefore hatet by a lot of mens :-D she knows she will win the next elections too if this is the case :-D

[The Fatman]

Some of the commentary on Ms Shinawatra is pretty awful and I am not saying that this government is a good one but what the former politician wants is an unelected government with him leading it in other words he wants to be a dictator. I have seen little on TV of anyone who reminded me more of Hitler than that man. Accept the elections then accept the result and let a new government get on with it because there could well be a major global recession especially if the US goes bankrupt and that is very likely.

[catweazle]

With far too many string puppets and puppeteers in the play and an audience that is predominantly childish and erratic, I have given up making predictions and taking sites in Thailand's never ending political turmoil. I fear that on Monday we will see a worsened situation with no solution in sight. Thanks to everyone involved for messing up yet another tourist season!

Edited December 8, 2013 by catweazle

[jdinasia]

The Dem's have just announced that they have resigned en masse from parliament. This government is over, and if they do not contest the next elections parliament will not be able to be seated.

[Halion]

Obviously the majority of people do not want it as the gov was elected in to power in the first place 2 years ago + http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/687232-govt-party-rejects-pm-yinglucks-resignation-house-dissolution/

Elections are due again in 2 years when the Dems will be on to another hiding, why embarrass themselves even more now.

That said, with an election now I guess if the Dems are defeated they would not object to the gov serving the remaining 2 years plus the additional 4 years the people will have mandated?

Just to point out that PTP has been in power for two-and-a-half years, and the next election must be held by 5th July 2015, nineteen months from now.

They're well-past the half-way mark.

And any new government would have four years only, not 4 + 2 as you suggest ?

19 months, two years - this is Thailand nobody counts exactly/

2 + 4 just a little subtle humor.

Subtle humour ? I think not more like the not so subtle misrepresentation of the facts which is the stock in trade for the PTP and its supporters. Never let the truth get in the way of the Shiniwatara's.

[pkspeaker]

Really? A little skeptic since the previous 'd-days' pretty much flopped; it doesn't seem like that many people will show for what is most likly going to be rioting to get into government house and ther buildings. But even if 100,000 does show up like he hopes, it's unlikly they will get into government house; and even if they did and they occupy it, they will have ot camp out in it for months like they did prior to the airport seizure. A alrge turnout is almost irrelivant because there have been large turnouts before and the redshirts always bring out even larger crowds, hopefully it will really end tomarrow and the democrats go back to the drawing board on how to participate in parliment legitimatly, Some people on this thread say that Yingluck is going to create another financial ccrises and her support is waning, that's fine then she will be voted out of office in 2 years when her term ends; for her term to end prematurly due to these nuts at democracy monument will simply perpetuate more chaos. Abhist never caved into the rioters demands in 2010 so why should she.

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.