PM Yingluck seeks House dissolution

[CaptHaddock]

Refusing to participate in elections is the Democrats' democratic right certainly. It would also be an attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the elected govt. That's the reason that Ang San Suu kyi's NLD party boycotted the 2010 elections in Myanmar. As a tactic I support Suu kyi and would oppose the Dems for the same step because the Myanmar elections were and are undemocratic while that is not true of the Thai elections.

JD you make the mistake of regarding democracy as binary: it either is 100% or isn't 100%. But that's ridiculous. Some parties are worse than others, in Thailand and in the USA also, for instance.

My guess is that Abhisit and Suthep will refuse to let the Democrat party participate in the elections. Their only approach is to attack democracy itself since they cannot win an election. They will come up with some reason why it is contrary to true democracy for the Democrats to stand for election and appeal to the Army to solve the resulting "impasse" which they will have created.

Flawed logic there since not fielding a candidate is democratic, as is running a "no vote" campaign.

Those of you supporting the PTP as if they are democratic in nature need only look to the 3rd reading of the amnesty bill to see that this is not what they are. PTP completely disallowed the mandated debate on the reading of the bill, thus cutting out more than 30% of the population from access to the government. That is majoritarianism and not democracy.

[jdinasia]

Thai politics in a nutshell.

Bangkok elite has temper tantrum and throws toys out of pram to get its own way.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is not only the "BKK elite" out there on the street. It is also the South, the students, average folks with no vested interest in anything other than Thailand's future.

Hard to argue with people that suggest that the people in Isaan are just looking out for their future, but when government policies are viewed side by side. The Thaksin group has done more harm than good upcountry and the Dems' policies did more good than harm. Sadly, the Dems suck at getting that info out and believed.

[Sunisalom]

Yingluck is only halfway to being a democratic politician.

That is, she understands the democratic process whereby the largest number of votes give you the right to form a government.

But she doesn't understand that when you get into power, democracy does not permit you to just do whatever the hell you like simply because you have the votes.

She doesn't understand anything . <- period

She isn't the politician! jam dai mai na?

-mel.

[daboyz1]

Then PTP will run She Who Must Be Obeyed in the next " election".....

I was thinking the same thing. I doubt the man in Dubai will trust someone outside of the family. I don't see older sis breaking down in tears like Pu.

[laurentbkk]

so what next ? election .... ok ......if Peu thai wins again, what happen ? other protests ? if the yellow win the election , what happen ? the red will protest etc ..... infernal circle and a never ending story .... my leitmotiv .... avoid talking about thai politic ...

[smedly]

this actually changes nothing and will not end here - she is still in charge calling the shots, the DEMs already dissolved the house when they all resigned

There will be no elections until changes are made and a referendum held

This is not over by a long shot

[CaptHaddock]

If the Democrats had been interested in winning elections they could have contested Thaksin's dominance among the poor in Isaan and elsewhere by offering more benefits to those voters. The poor have correctly identified that their lives will be better off with the PTP than the Dems, but it needn't be so. However, the Dems have zero interest in improving the lot of anyone but the rich. The result is that they have no option but to oppose democracy in every instance.

[tomacht8]

I agree with EmptySet re vote buying if, as most posters on TVF suggest, you mean handing a bit of cash to the electorate 1 by 1.

However, the local political machines do fairly well control local politics in a manner that very much is vote buying. They get paid to deliver votes and made promises of local improvements based upon the party making the promises winning the district. They have a great deal of power locally and do use it. The village chief gets handed a wad of cash, and told you will get a new water tower, or your roads will be repaved etc if you deliver your people. Note that the contracts for the improvements go to the political allies of the government in most cases.

This makes it almost impossible for foreign observers to see the irregularities. They would 1) Have to be reported locally and 2) have someone with the political will to follow up on the reports 3) have penalties in place that actually discourage this.

What is amazing is that some people still get red carded for handing out cash.

So what you´re saying is that it works in the exact same manner it does all over the world, i.e empty promises about fixing roads, new water tower, etc, etc, to get people to vote for you?

Except maybe the "hard cash" vote buying. But I think we all know by now that both sides are pretty much equally guilty when it comes to that...

It would be nice, but from 100% Budget money the people get only 30-40%, and when u ask where are the difference, then you get not Data or answer in parlament. The rest of the money goes in personal pockets!

[jackrich]

It seems the Democrats have just committed political suicide. They resigned from the party, which means they will - all of them - not be allowed to stand in the next elections, which are to be held in 60 days or less. That means the Democrats have to find over 500 new candidates and prepare them, all in less than 60 days.

[Bakseeda]

Yet again, her brother has outwitted Suthep. The pictures of their million-man march this morning proved what most of the Bangkokians I know have been saying for more than a week now..people are bored of this and Suthep has been out-manoeuvred at every turn and it's time for him to go home....better yet, turn himself in.

As a Brit myself, I apologize to all other nationalities for the lack of brains by certain other Brits... Sorry peoples..

[Emptyset]

I agree with EmptySet re vote buying if, as most posters on TVF suggest, you mean handing a bit of cash to the electorate 1 by 1.

However, the local political machines do fairly well control local politics in a manner that very much is vote buying. They get paid to deliver votes and made promises of local improvements based upon the party making the promises winning the district. They have a great deal of power locally and do use it. The village chief gets handed a wad of cash, and told you will get a new water tower, or your roads will be repaved etc if you deliver your people. Note that the contracts for the improvements go to the political allies of the government in most cases.

This makes it almost impossible for foreign observers to see the irregularities. They would 1) Have to be reported locally and 2) have someone with the political will to follow up on the reports 3) have penalties in place that actually discourage this.

What is amazing is that some people still get red carded for handing out cash.

Yeah, I agree that good old fashioned pork barrel politics is still a big factor - in *all* provinces, not just the N/NE. Though I think it's become less of an issue in parliament in recent years as positions in provincial governance organizations have become more lucrative. In any case, is there really a way around that in an electoral democracy? Much of it is difficult to prove.

One possible route out of that might be to move to a fully party list electoral system, removing the constituency vote. Some way of cutting the link between kamnan, hua kanaen, and local MP, which is still as democratic as the current system, if not more democratic. I'm not sure how the German system works, but maybe something along those lines. I'm not sure this would be in any politicians interests though, so it won't happen.

[winstonc]

Ok this is democracy in motion which cannot be denied, and the right thing to do.

Now will the opposition let the people of Thailand vote and accept the will of the (umpires) ( the people) and let the government run for the full term???

somehow I think not!!!

But if the Dems what to keep any kind of credibility then they need to accept the election result and the elite few need to accept it as well instead of this rubbish of protest when they loose yet again...

[96tehtarp]

My guess is that Abhisit and Suthep will refuse to let the Democrat party participate in the elections. Their only approach is to attack democracy itself since they cannot win an election. They will come up with some reason why it is contrary to true democracy for the Democrats to stand for election and appeal to the Army to solve the resulting "impasse" which they will have created.

I second your guess. Suthep has already floated this same very idea.

They have tried this before, and so here we go again.

My money is on the DP boycotting the election.

I'm just waiting for Suthep and Abhisit and the Yellows to formally propose to the general Thai population that they do not have enough sovereignty to vote and that a dictatorship of the proletariat is needed to protect the people from themselves and their democratic constitution.

What other options do they have?

Considering the strong rebuke the Yellows were given by the head of state the last time they asked for same... (self-censorship-here). Look up what was said. It's on record.

Edited December 9, 2013 by 96tehtarp

[wedders]

Thai politics in a nutshell.

Bangkok elite has temper tantrum and throws toys out of pram to get its own way.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is not only the "BKK elite" out there on the street. It is also the South, the students, average folks with no vested interest in anything other than Thailand's future.

 

Hard to argue with people that suggest that the people in Isaan are just looking out for their future, but when government policies are viewed side by side. The Thaksin group has done more harm than good upcountry and the Dems' policies did more good than harm. Sadly, the Dems suck at getting that info out and believed.

Maybe, but one thing's for sure - they are far from representing a majority, as that national poll revealed yesterday.

It's simple enough. Thailand must be the only country with people on the streets demanding an end to universal suffrage. How sad.

The bottom line is that if the demonstrators had the slightest belief that their views were representative of the majority, they would be delighted with the dissolution of the house and new elections. It's that simple.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AleG]

I agree with EmptySet re vote buying if, as most posters on TVF suggest, you mean handing a bit of cash to the electorate 1 by 1.

However, the local political machines do fairly well control local politics in a manner that very much is vote buying. They get paid to deliver votes and made promises of local improvements based upon the party making the promises winning the district. They have a great deal of power locally and do use it. The village chief gets handed a wad of cash, and told you will get a new water tower, or your roads will be repaved etc if you deliver your people. Note that the contracts for the improvements go to the political allies of the government in most cases.

This makes it almost impossible for foreign observers to see the irregularities. They would 1) Have to be reported locally and 2) have someone with the political will to follow up on the reports 3) have penalties in place that actually discourage this.

What is amazing is that some people still get red carded for handing out cash.

Indeed, that sort of electoral rigging is all but unoticeable to international observers that are parachuted around the country at election time.

I mentioned this bit before, my GFs father is a poo yai in the central region, after the last election he had to go into hiding because he couldn't deliver the village to the "correct" party as prearranged and rumor had it that a hitman was after him.

With the number of deaths of canvassesrs and other political bit players that happen during election time I'm not too disinclined to believe those rumors.

[Sunisalom]

Yet again, her brother has outwitted Suthep. The pictures of their million-man march this morning proved what most of the Bangkokians I know have been saying for more than a week now..people are bored of this and Suthep has been out-manoeuvred at every turn and it's time for him to go home....better yet, turn himself in.

As a Brit myself, I apologize to all other nationalities for the lack of brains by certain other Brits... Sorry peoples..

Post of the week! 555

[aussieinthailand]

My advice to the protesters is to keep marching...

And achieve what?

Well, how about something for all of Thailand. Real change.

Local Drunk,

The only "Real change" would be that the opposition accept the election result and then contest government after a full term has run it's course and that the southern people DO NOT have the right to ignore the rest of Thailand's choice of government...

If you can think of a better way for ALL Thai people can have their say then lets hear it,

but get over the so-called vote buying BS because that's what is holding you back.

[farangman]

It seems the Democrats have just committed political suicide. They resigned from the party, which means they will - all of them - not be allowed to stand in the next elections, which are to be held in 60 days or less. That means the Democrats have to find over 500 new candidates and prepare them, all in less than 60 days.

Sigh.....They resigned their positions as members of parliament, NOT their membership of the Democratic Party.

[JRSoul]

It seems the Democrats have just committed political suicide. They resigned from the party, which means they will - all of them - not be allowed to stand in the next elections, which are to be held in 60 days or less. That means the Democrats have to find over 500 new candidates and prepare them, all in less than 60 days.

You seem to have "information" (again) that nobody else has. Or have you confused resigned from parliament with resigned from the party?

It amazes me that your ego allows you to appreciate great flashes of insight without wondering why nobody else has thought of it.

[jackrich]

It seems the Democrats have just committed political suicide. They resigned from the party, which means they will - all of them - not be allowed to stand in the next elections, which are to be held in 60 days or less. That means the Democrats have to find over 500 new candidates and prepare them, all in less than 60 days.

Sigh.....They resigned their positions as members of parliament, NOT their membership of the Democratic Party.

They also resigned from the party, in order not to face dissolution if the protests go wrong.

[96tehtarp]

It is not only the "BKK elite" out there on the street. It is also the South, the students, average folks with no vested interest in anything other than Thailand's future.

The leadership of the current anti-government movement are all 100% Yellow. Look it up. It's on record.

If I'm wrong I'll be the first to owe up to it.

[gemini81]

Watch Yingluck's interview! It is beyond a doubt the worst, and most failed interview ever by any politician.

Warning: Exposure to this full video may cause sever brain damage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzhhf94TZ0E

[Local Drunk]

My advice to the protesters is to keep marching...

And achieve what?

Well, how about something for all of Thailand. Real change.

Local Drunk,

The only "Real change" would be that the opposition accept the election result and then contest government after a full term has run it's course and that the southern people DO NOT have the right to ignore the rest of Thailand's choice of government...

If you can think of a better way for ALL Thai people can have their say then lets hear it,

but get over the so-called vote buying BS because that's what is holding you back.

"but get over the so-called vote buying BS because that's what is holding you back."

Get over the fact that you think you can read cause it's holding you back. I've said nothing about vote buying in this thread.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Local Drunk

[PaullyW]

Seems like the divide cannot be cured without some 'meeting in the middle'. The 'elites' in and around Bangkok and some other, key, richer areas must figure out a way to better incorporate the marginalised Northern and Northeastern people into the countries successes.

I think it comes through a radical revision of the culture in Thailand. The time of keeping the darker brown Thais/farmers/Issan people in the dark may be coming to an end. As they become more educated, relatively speaking, they will see more and more how they have been and continue to be abused.

The only proper way out of this is for Thais to acknowledge their deep cultural issues in honesty and in good faith and install leaders who acknowledge the same hard truths and work toward building a stronger -- MORE EQUAL -- society. That, or bloody revolution.

[jdinasia]

Thai politics in a nutshell.

Bangkok elite has temper tantrum and throws toys out of pram to get its own way.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is not only the "BKK elite" out there on the street. It is also the South, the students, average folks with no vested interest in anything other than Thailand's future.

Hard to argue with people that suggest that the people in Isaan are just looking out for their future, but when government policies are viewed side by side. The Thaksin group has done more harm than good upcountry and the Dems' policies did more good than harm. Sadly, the Dems suck at getting that info out and believed.

Sorry to quote my own post ---- but ths proves the point in my first sentence ....

Tulip Naksompop ‏@Tulip_Oum

12m

Chunchai Sittiphun, twin brother of transport minister Chatchart, also participate in the rally.RT @ThananunSuwan pic.twitter.com/r1o0LNoOPC

[gemini81]

It is not only the "BKK elite" out there on the street. It is also the South, the students, average folks with no vested interest in anything other than Thailand's future.

The leadership of the current anti-government movement are all 100% Yellow. Look it up. It's on record.

If I'm wrong I'll be the first to owe up to it.

VERY untrue. I know former red shirts among them personally, who became discontent and joined in. Not all the leadership identifies with yellow anymore.....it is no longer the color concept. Only for the red buffaloes. I don't appreciate your lies, but we're not naive rice farmers, so sorry, you can't deceive us so easily.

They RIGHT outside my office on phetchaburi road. People of all walks of life among them.

Edited December 9, 2013 by gemini81

[jdinasia]

Seems like the divide cannot be cured without some 'meeting in the middle'. The 'elites' in and around Bangkok and some other, key, richer areas must figure out a way to better incorporate the marginalised Northern and Northeastern people into the countries successes.

I think it comes through a radical revision of the culture in Thailand. The time of keeping the darker brown Thais/farmers/Issan people in the dark may be coming to an end. As they become more educated, relatively speaking, they will see more and more how they have been and continue to be abused.

The only proper way out of this is for Thais to acknowledge their deep cultural issues in honesty and in good faith and install leaders who acknowledge the same hard truths and work toward building a stronger -- MORE EQUAL -- society. That, or bloody revolution.

Ahem ......

The people of the South are not rich, consistently vote Dem,, are farmers, and are darker than people from Isaan.

Crippling populist policies are not the way out for Thailand. Sustainable infrastructure development is. Investment in education is. Making corruption an offense that is painful to those that get caught is. (Staring from the local cop/village headman to the PM's office)

[CaptHaddock]

I find it particularly depressing that the foreigners in Thailand should mostly support the anti-democratic yellow faction despite their history of seizing power through military and judicial coups and who are now attempting to do achieve the same result with a street mob. I can only conclude that these expats see their interests aligned with the status quo in Thailand as invested in the ammat. It's beyond me, for instance, that an observer can conclude that the factions are war here are characterized by corruption on the one hand and clean government on the other. The ammat have the overwhelming mass of wealth in the country, not Thaksin and his fellow cronies. Both sides buy votes and subsidize street protestors. Whether to the same degree or not, it's impossible, but to know, but the suggestion that Thaksin and co. bought all 15 million votes in the last election and are therefore illegitimate is ludicrous on the face of it. That's the sort of argument that only appeals to someone who has already decided that his interests lie with the rich, powerful, and undemocratic group in the country.

Edited December 9, 2013 by CaptHaddock

[Hawkman]

Thai politics in a nutshell.

Bangkok elite has temper tantrum and throws toys out of pram to get its own way.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is not only the "BKK elite" out there on the street. It is also the South, the students, average folks with no vested interest in anything other than Thailand's future.

Hard to argue with people that suggest that the people in Isaan are just looking out for their future, but when government policies are viewed side by side. The Thaksin group has done more harm than good upcountry and the Dems' policies did more good than harm. Sadly, the Dems suck at getting that info out and believed.

Maybe, but one thing's for sure - they are far from representing a majority, as that national poll revealed yesterday.

It's simple enough. Thailand must be the only country with people on the streets demanding an end to universal suffrage. How sad.

The bottom line is that if the demonstrators had the slightest belief that their views were representative of the majority, they would be delighted with the dissolution of the house and new elections. It's that simple.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think any country will go out and protest if their Government had acted the way this Government had done. There are no excuses, none, in a democratic society for the rice scam and the whitewash bill.

People who don't give one monkey's about politics, who have no like for the "elites" and rich are out protesting because they can see through this Government; this Government has brought those people out into the open.

The bottom line is that if Red Shirt supporters on here have a desire for Thailand to have a good future, then they should want a Government that has policies that does the best for the people. Dems have a lot to learn to focus on Isaan but this Government has a lot more to learn about democracy and its people.

[aussieinthailand]

My advice to the protesters is to keep marching...

And achieve what?

Well, how about something for all of Thailand. Real change.

The only "Real change" would be that the opposition accept the election result, without crying the standard "vote buying" BS, and that the people of the south DO NOT have the wright to ignore the will of the peoples choice of government, and let government run it's full term. NOW THEN Thailand could finally grow up and get on with the job of improving the country and the lives of the people...

If you have a better idea to have a government rather than Suthep's snatch n grab at power in a bid to avoid being bought to justice then let's hear it.