Why Thailand's new elections will make a coup more likely

[unanimosity]

Not all protesters are Democrats. Many are tired of the massive corruption and lies by politicians. Especially the current ones. And especially the PM. They want a change, but aren't necessarily fond of Suthep.

But the protesters and democrats combined represent a tiny minority of the population.

Edited December 11, 2013 by unanimosity

[FiftyTwo]

The Red represent to poor people, 97% of the Thai population.

The Yellows represent the rich and educated, 3% of the Thai population.

I don't see how anything can change unless a new party appears to appeal to the poor farmers.

Or dare I say it, a party that isn't so corrupt and self-serving.

Or worst of all, someone steps in and shoots everyone that doesn't agree with them.

Edited December 11, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[ggold]

Many are tired of the massive corruption and lies by politicians

.

Thats been going on for decades, what the difference now?

The amnesty was the catalyst, the Shinawatras need to get out of politics now, the conflict (Thailand's deeper problems are separate) centres around them, without Thaksin's machinations none of this would have happened.

utter, utter rubbish this is about the elite amart clinging onto their power and their fast cars with their corrupt regime and their kids getting away with anything they want

Run over a Thai? no problem Daddy will pay and it will all go away, shoot someone? no problem Daddy will pay and it will all go away

and you think Thaksin doesn't see himself as one of the elite? We can all see that the PTP government have been law abiding, and handed out justice even handedly. They didn't think there was a law for us and a law for everyone else! It's just that the suspects got away before they could be arrested! But its OK we have put out an warrant for their arrest via interpol!

[siampolee]

In a democracy the people i.e the electorate elect individuals who promise to look after the peoples, the electorates interests along with the best interests of the country. This is of course how it should be.

However if we look back at the last administration and also its assorted previous incarnations we see plainly that the ideals in the paragraph above have not been the case. This last administration made promises that are leading both Thailand and its peoples into debt bondage, the death of democracy and the establishment of a new dictatorial ruling political dynasty.

This scenario has been established by virtue of populist vote buying policies of a pie crust standard. The interests, the development, politically and financially and business wise along with the general welfare and well being of both Thailand and its peoples have been relegated to the wings of the political stage in favour of one creature his family and their brown nosing acolytes so as they are able to service their own self serving interests both politically and financially.

The electorate have made public their views on this administration very clear for the nation as a whole and indeed the world to a lesser extent. Now if the lessons have been learnt by all sides all well and good.

Hopefully the next administration will be a cleaner and more honest one that will place Thailand and its peoples first.I.E. politicians acting as the peoples elected servants not the people acting as the politicians servants and the politicians own personal piggy bank as has been the case so far under this last administration.

However a caveat.

If the lessons have not been learnt by all sides this country and its peoples the coming generations are going to be destroyed by debt bondage the death of what passes for democracy here in Thailand and the establishment of a political dynasty based upon nepotism, corruption and a dictatorship.

The end game is now going into extended injury time.

Let us hope that the lessons have been learnt from those past injuries politically financially and morally by all factions of society.if votes are sold for 30 pieces of silver to whatever faction those who sell their votes will be responsible for the destruction of this country along with placing the coming generations into a yoke of debt bondage and a dictatorial society. Once that yoke of dictatorship is in place it is difficult to throw of as we have seen historically around the world

If such a situation was to arise in my opinion the likelihood of military intervention is probably high. That will be the end game.

Democracy and freedom are now on a razors edge here in Thailand.

[stoli]

So better to have Unelected Peoples Councils than a Military Coup

Excellent analysis from The Nation - The Democratic Parties Media Division

Here we go

Did you miss the part where the article was written by Bloomberg Businessweek?

[ratcatcher]

Many are tired of the massive corruption and lies by politicians

.

Thats been going on for decades, what the difference now?

The amnesty was the catalyst, the Shinawatras need to get out of politics now, the conflict (Thailand's deeper problems are separate) centres around them, without Thaksin's machinations none of this would have happened.

utter, utter rubbish this is about the elite amart clinging onto their power and their fast cars with their corrupt regime and their kids getting away with anything they want

Run over a Thai? no problem Daddy will pay and it will all go away, shoot someone? no problem Daddy will pay and it will all go away

In your eagerness to slam the hi so elite amart etc, take a moment and find the hi-so Ferrari drivers in these typical protester pictures.

Your prejudice on this matter is as bad as those labeling all Red shirts as "dark skinned, rice growing, lao khao swigging, Isan buffaloes.

Totally absurd. People from all walks of life are in this protest just like they were in 2010 with the red shirt occupation at Ratchaprasong.

There are an awful lot of elites in the red shirt camp as well. That includes the leader and his kid sisters.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Coming very close to become a country unable to govern themselves. Greedy Thai-Chinese clans, 2000 generals, propaganda brainwashed red skirts, Yellow skirts, Muslims in the south who want a separation, all fighting each other. How to solve this mess?

[sjaak327]

The question who exactly is disrupting the system should more and more be answered with: the democrats.

They are unable to gather enough support at the ballot box, claim populist policies are " vote buying", and scream foul each chance they get. Yet why they don't gather enough support nationwide is a question they have apparently never asked themselves.

There is no question they have ample financial support, but their politicians keep on trying to frustrate the democratic system. Instead of proposing good policies, trying to get support in areas where they are doing piss poor and trying to chance the country through democratic means, they have tried several times to bypass the democratic system. In 2006 they boycotted the general elections, ultimately leading to a coup. And the question would be if they are willing to participate in the upcoming elections.

It's not the democratic system that is at fault here, it is some of the players that cannot adhere to the principles of democracy. One of the most important principle would be to accept the election results...

[Tiffer]

so let me get this straight. People are tired of mass or large scale corruption, but quite content with everyday low level corruption.

Maybe there a "prosecution exempt" limit... you know, like your tax allowances

[GeorgeO]

Many are tired of the massive corruption and lies by politicians

.

Thats been going on for decades, what the difference now?

The difference now is that people are prepared to go out on the streets and say "enough is enough"...!!

[GeorgeO]

The question who exactly is disrupting the system should more and more be answered with: the democrats.

They are unable to gather enough support at the ballot box, claim populist policies are " vote buying", and scream foul each chance they get. Yet why they don't gather enough support nationwide is a question they have apparently never asked themselves.

There is no question they have ample financial support, but their politicians keep on trying to frustrate the democratic system. Instead of proposing good policies, trying to get support in areas where they are doing piss poor and trying to chance the country through democratic means, they have tried several times to bypass the democratic system. In 2006 they boycotted the general elections, ultimately leading to a coup. And the question would be if they are willing to participate in the upcoming elections.

It's not the democratic system that is at fault here, it is some of the players that cannot adhere to the principles of democracy. One of the most important principle would be to accept the election results...

An "advanced member" who also completely misses the point...!!

[MaxLee]

Welcome to the future republic of S( C)HINAWATRA

[Maggusoil]

All positive change must start within us.

That's more or less Buddhist isn't it?

It's a pity the religion is not looked at more seriously here.

Two of the worlds great anomalies are Islam in Indonesia and Buddhism in Thailand.

The great advantage of one over the other, in terms of how the masses react, is one lot are sober.

[EvilDrSomkid]

All positive change must start within us.

That's more or less Buddhist isn't it?

It's a pity the religion is not looked at more seriously here.

Two of the worlds great anomalies are Islam in Indonesia and Buddhism in Thailand.

The great advantage of one over the other, in terms of how the masses react, is one lot are sober.

Buddhism is not a religion. It is a philosophy with religious elements.

[ratcatcher]

The Red represent to poor people, 97% of the Thai population.

The Yellows represent the rich and educated, 3% of the Thai population.

I don't see how anything can change unless a new party appears to appeal to the poor farmers.

Or dare I say it, a party that isn't so corrupt and self-serving.

Or worst of all, someone steps in and shoots everyone that doesn't agree with them.

"The Red represent to poor people, 97% of the Thai population.

The Yellows represent the rich and educated, 3% of the Thai population."

Amazing! You think 97% of the Thai population are poor and uneducated? Are you living in a small red village somewhere in deepest Isaan?

The "reds" represent a broad spectrum of Thai society as do the "yellows'. This colour coding is simplistic and

pointless.

The "red" group have many millionaires and wealthy, educated people as does the "yellow' group have many middle class and poor people.

The country is probably divided somewhere on a 50-50 basis based on poll results.

[cup-O-coffee]

Not all protesters are Democrats. Many are tired of the massive corruption and lies by politicians. Especially the current ones. And especially the PM. They want a change, but aren't necessarily fond of Suthep.

Yeah, I'll go with that.

Suthep has played his hand quite well I think, even if I don't agree with him and much of what he has to say... he has awakened Thailand's largest voting block, the politically apathetic. I mean, most pro-PTP types like to say the entire of Isaan and Pak Neua all vote for Thaksin, but a few chats in the provinces will reveal that the public generally don't trust any politicians - even if they acknowledge they're basically celebrities and therefore deserve a few cheers.

After reading a bit on the voting process in Thailand (here and here): I will admit I am not as confused as I am aware that the entire process is set up as a template for total manipulation by anyone with money and basic knowledge of how the process works.

Additionally, whilst doing a cursory reading of the process at those links, I began to have the doubt in my mind that any Thai (any Thai) other than the ones who manipulate this process would not be able to begin to describe the voting process and how it works, much less being able to describe the "First Past the Post (FPTP or FPP)" system. This would consume about 95% of the Thai population. I am saying that the 95% demographic is as ignorant of what I just described as a person could possibly be.

There are so many opportunities and caveats in these processes, that would allow for numerous third party agendas to cloud, distort, deceive and cheat within this process, that the mind is beggared.

With that in mind, I would submit that Thailand is not a Democracy in the sense that "the people get to choose". No way! It is more like the corporations and those with money choose; as well as those in the media who are owned by those with money. As mentioned above, I submit that any "choice" that the people might be empowered with is taken away from them by being able to manipulate their ignorance, stupidity, superstitious thinking, greed, and etc.

That is the thick of it: the foundation of all of this hypocrisy, lunacy and apathy being the people in general, themselves, controlled and manipulated into diluting their own influence in any election until they are a non-entity..

In a prior post on this thread, I disparaged a post made by "yoong". I did not take any great joy in doing so, but the weak-minded mentality that the Thai general populace has about its leaders, as well as their own self-awareness of what leadership is (on a personal level) - and how that leadership on a personal level is demonstrated - convinces me that the term "General Election" is a farce and a charade: more or less an opiate for the masses.

"General Elections" in a sense, are nothing more than an auction, with the general population sitting on the fence watching, but being stupid enough to actually think they are a part of the auction (sans the bidding cards).

I will bet money that less than one percent of one percent of the Thai general population could describe FPTP (or FPP). I do not consider myself a genius, but I am fairly acute in understanding the basic principles of this method. My cursory reading of this process, as it was laid out objectively in Wikipedia, has my head spinning; but I get the general idea. It is flawed in so many aspects, even were it to be used in a developed country, that when one considers that Thailand uses this method in its elections, and when one considers the depths at which Thais will go to get what they want, then one cannot by any gross means call this a democracy or a democratic election process.

With all due respect, I submit that were any Thai to read a translation of the Wikipedia links, their heads would not only spin, they would probably smile at the reading of the first paragraph and humbly refuse to read any further, and utter some feeble "FACE" excuse for not understanding and end it all with a Mai-Pen-Rai. Yeah! i am saying they would do what they have always done: avoid knowledge because it hurts their heads to think.

That is one of my major points here. Thais do not know their own laws. They do not know their own election processes. They pretty much don;t know anything at all about their own identities and their own culture beyond the limits of their front door, and what "grandma says".

So when I see these mass thousands converging at the protests, I scoff at them because they are sheep who merely stampede to the trough because they know someone is putting grain in their mouths if they get there. TO Hell with what they think and know.

Couple that with my conviction that the general population is a feeble-minded as it gets when it comes to living the basic principles of life, which I submit are based upon moral and ethical character, a sense of responsibility and accountability towards one's self and one's family, neighborhood and community. They simply do not have it.

What a joke! ...Thais getting angry about politics when they know absolutely nothing about the process, the terminology or its inner workings; all because they were looking at porn in the classroom when the teacher was trying to get them to study about it. Then they aced their tests on politics because they bought the answers from the geek on Facebook.

This is all a charade and nothing more. Perhaps these lunatics will be stupid enough to allow for some "Houdini" to stir them into such a frenzy that they will murder their own brother over something they have absolutely no idea about. I would not be surprised. Perhaps the possibility exists that Thais simply love a good "stir" in their otherwise stagnant and hopeless lives, and for 500 THB will do just about anything if it could be seen as a chance to break the boredom and monotony. This is more likely and probable in my opinion.

I challenge anyone to argue this by going to the protest sight and asking any one of those lunatics to describe the electoral process, and what First Past the Post means. If they haven't a clue about any of that, then they truly are as stupid as I suggest.

Moreover, and in closing, I look at their own personal lives, and my experiences here in Thailand with their culture and beliefs systems on family and child rearing. How many parents meet with teachers about their children? Where are the fathers? Why do employees at any institution which involve mentoring children always bear the brunt of responsibility and accountability for these children and the parents are seemingly always a non-entity in that process? Why do these children behave like morons and idiots towards these employees who are entrusted with their education? Why are the ones who fund these institutions greedy and manipulative towards "making sure the funds go to where they are designated"? Why is teenage pregnancy, gang violence and murder and drug addiction skyrocketing?

You get the idea?

These lunatics in the general population have no understanding of the political process, and absolutely no control over their own lives, or their children's lives, and any empowerment they have been given in the electoral process they piss away for 500 THB and a stubborn refusal to pick up a book and read.

Why Thailand's new elections will make a coup more likely? Because they are lunatics all!

Edited December 12, 2013 by cup-O-coffee

[Maggusoil]

All positive change must start within us.

That's more or less Buddhist isn't it?

It's a pity the religion is not looked at more seriously here.

Two of the worlds great anomalies are Islam in Indonesia and Buddhism in Thailand.

The great advantage of one over the other, in terms of how the masses react, is one lot are sober.

Buddhism is not a religion. It is a philosophy with religious elements.

Agreed.

I would venture more than just a philosophy even.

I was just looking at it from the mass point of view, and how much alcoholism affects this country.

From my personal view, Buddhism is the most succinct dissertation on mental health and the most complete

system of spiritual and mental discipline to have graced this planet. Ever. Although the early Kabala teachings show

a major similarity.

Essential reading for all who wish to improve their lives and the lives of their fellows.

More than just a philosophy, a way of living and thinking, that has improved my own life for over 40 years.

Its not helping Thailand I would also venture, because the religious aspects have evolved to

diminish personal responsibility rather than enhance it.

[billd766]

Not all protesters are Democrats. Many are tired of the massive corruption and lies by politicians. Especially the current ones. And especially the PM. They want a change, but aren't necessarily fond of Suthep.

But the protesters and democrats combined represent a tiny minority of the population.

Can you please give me an example such as this one of your version of a "tiny" minority?

As a percentage of the whole population of Thailand of course.

Edited December 12, 2013 by billd766

[samuibeachcomber]

hold on to your seat we could be in for a bumpy ride in 2014.

[billd766]

The Red represent to poor people, 97% of the Thai population.

The Yellows represent the rich and educated, 3% of the Thai population.

I don't see how anything can change unless a new party appears to appeal to the poor farmers.

Or dare I say it, a party that isn't so corrupt and self-serving.

Or worst of all, someone steps in and shoots everyone that doesn't agree with them.

The Reds represent 97% of the population you claim.

Well looking at Bangkok and the South of Thailand there are more that 3% but less than 97% ofthe population living there.

Now your claim of 97% should have given the PTP 97% of the 375 parliamentary seets which would have been 364 parliamentary seats instead of the 265 (including party list seats) they actually got plus 123 party list seats so 364 + 123 comes to a total of 487 seats.

Either my maths is a bit rusty or you have no idea what you are talking about.