Its for the best that there is no social security system in Thailand.... Uk comparison

[advancebooking]

Here is a copy and paste from the web: <<they are not my relatives>>

It is my opinion that Thailand's economy would be worse off if it provided social security- even if the government could afford to pay it. The work hard to survive attitude keeps the economy ticking over.

What are your thoughts?

Edited December 13, 2013 by bonobo
Deleted lengthy quote due to fair use requirements.

[i claudius]

Spot on ,i have a friend in the UK he has only worked for about 2 years ,he is now 52 ,braught up 2 daugters one married one with a kid living in a councill flat ,he is on disability ,has been for 27 years ,gets a car and his wife is his carer, lives in a very nice 3 bed semi in a nice area,now complaining as only him and his wife he has to pay bedroom tax. days if immegrants get it all why shouldnt he.

funnily enough my wife and i were just talking about what would happen in Thailand if they had the same system ,especially as they are about to Join this Asian E.U and loads of low paid workers will flood in , to be honest ,Thailand has it about right.

Ps he is well enough to do a bit of cash in hand.

Edited December 13, 2013 by i claudius

[chris2004]

The welfare system has destroyed the UK. Most of the people who would have taken the lower paid jobs (quite gladly) refuse to do this work now because they can get as much or more in benefits. This is a great waste of their life but also means the UK has no one to do these basic jobs (except more immigrants who in turn will soon turn to a life on benefits).

[namdocmai]

Yes i know many examples like your Aunt. In Thailand they would at least do something like selling fruit or lottery-tickets. It's a shame that in Europe people are not even allowed to sell something like fruit or peanuts. It also is a shame to pay extraordinary amounts of tax and VAT if you see how other people do misabuse the system. I don't blame them though, if i was in their position i might have done the same because it is so easy to do.

What i don't like about the fruitsellers in Thailand is that they using double pricing......And the lotteryticket-sellers that they are always biking in my way. But better that then seeing them abuse the social system where i have to pay loads of money for.

[HardenedSoul]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

[i claudius]

Hardendsaul,

its easy to pontificate (how old are you) but when i left school and went to live in London i got married and yes i bought a house for only 4250 pounds ,i was earning the princly sum of about 20 odd quid a week ,i remember well worrying myself sick how we were going to afford the 6 pounds a month rates(councill tax) there was no final salary pension scheme for most of us (unless you work for the govt) ,and what there was was destroyed by Gordon Brown and the labour govt ,even the very small private pension i get is mostly taken in tax. very few of us believe me traded in stocks. yes it was easier to get a job ,but there was not the sort of social money that todays unemployed get believe me , it was easier in some ways ,but believe me when i say ,it was sometimes just as much of a struggle with a young familly and without the massive safty net they now get.

[lungbing]

While you are correct in many of your observations, you might reflect that when I bought my house I was paying 14% interest some years. Now I have money in the bank I get a return of less than inflation. Social security was never meant to be a life choice, but now it is, and too many have opted for it, my bone idle sister included. And in a couple of years she's going to get a pension the same as me despite never having paid into one. Fair?

[bifftastic]

There will always be people who abuse a system, but I think it's important to remember why the system exists in the first place.

There was crushing poverty in the UK in the early part of the 20th century. Poor housing, slum landlords, low education standards, shockingly dangerous working conditions, and little or no health care unless you could afford to pay for it.

So yes, everyone knows of a person who's never worked in their life and appears to be happy on benefits with no ambition or drive to improve their situation, but it's important to have a welfare state, health and safety regulations, and all of the things that we do have to pay for from our taxes, because without them, the UK would be a third world country.

It's not Thailand, people can't scrape a living in the same way. I doubt that people would be particularly impressed with cabbage sellers approaching them at traffic lights, or that there would be many people who stopped at the roadside to buy roast hedgehog on their way home.

[rgs2001uk]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/jobless-couple-demand-bigger-council-house-because-mother-is--really-fertile--and-can-t-help-getting-pregnant-131232054.html#gcHfQmb

Cry me a effin river.

My heart bleeds purlpe piss.

Ever heard of personal responsibilty, no, its me me me all the time, blame someone else.

&lt;deleted&gt; there even a NHS that will snip either one of you dole bludgers for free.

27k per year, effin scum.

[Spoonman]

If there is no social Security in Thailand what is the Bt.750 per month "social security" monies that come from my salary for ?

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/home_eng.jsp?lang=en

Edited December 13, 2013 by Spoonman

[HardenedSoul]

Hardendsaul,

its easy to pontificate (how old are you) but when i left school and went to live in London i got married and yes i bought a house for only 4250 pounds ,i was earning the princly sum of about 20 odd quid a week ,i remember well worrying myself sick how we were going to afford the 6 pounds a month rates(councill tax) there was no final salary pension scheme for most of us (unless you work for the govt) ,and what there was was destroyed by Gordon Brown and the labour govt ,even the very small private pension i get is mostly taken in tax. very few of us believe me traded in stocks. yes it was easier to get a job ,but there was not the sort of social money that todays unemployed get believe me , it was easier in some ways ,but believe me when i say ,it was sometimes just as much of a struggle with a young familly and without the massive safty net they now get.

I'm 46. Born and bred in London.

I was fortunate enough to buy property at rock bottom prices in the late 90s and even luckier to sell just as the Northern Rock went tits up.

I always found it easy to find work too but I have the humility to acknowledge it for what it was - good fortune.

i don't sit behind a computer all smug and self-righteous saying that the comfort I enjoy now came as a result of my ingenuity or foresight when, in reality, I just happened to be born, educated and invested at the right point in the cycle.

There are a lot of benefit cheats for sure but the majority of claimants are genuine. The wonderful welfare lifestyle you guys allude to has largely been done away with and although a lot of scroungers have quite rightly seen their haul significantly reduced, a lot of genuine claimants who've paid into the system have been penalized too.

[meom]

LOL.

I remember when I left school in the early 80's.

Went straight on the dole and lived out of a trailer.

In those days in order to get paid you had to update your status monthly by filling out a form and putting it in the mail.

The beauty was that they gave you 6 months of forms in advance.

All I had to do was fill them all up and instruct my grandmother to put them in the mail each month while I was backpacking through Europe.

Those were the days; I left school at 18 and got my first serious job at 26 only living on the dole and doing the odd cash job here and there.

I think nowadays they've clamped down a lot and it isn't as easy as it used to be.

[bonobo]

Due to fair use requirements, a rather lengthy cut-and-paste without attribution was deleted from the OP. The topic itself is acceptable, so feel free to comment on the subject.

[TerryLH]

As Spoonman has pointed out, Thailand does have a Social Security system.

In my opinion, the best part of it is the health coverage it provides.

[nidieunimaitre]

Some people in Thailand have a social security system, and they abuse it too.

It is called " You farang, you take care".

[roamer]

I tend to agree but without the contemptuous attitude shared by so many TV armchair economists when discussing the welfare state.

It's so bloody easy to sit there having grown up as part of a generation that benefited enormously from a period of unprecedented economic growth in the West.

It's easy when you only had to buy a house in the 70s, live in it for 30 years and then sell it for any number of times more than what you paid.

It's easy when you've worked, paid into and are now living on the proceeds of a final salary pension scheme. They're nowhere near as common these days, are they?

It's easy when you could bounce out of school with a degree and straight into a job with a British company at a time when our ingenuity still led the world.

It's so easy when all you had to do was "buy-and-hold" stocks to see them soar in value many times over.

Frankly, I think a lot of you should really consider yourselves mighty fortunate that you were born and worked at the right time rather than sitting there passing judgment on the overwhelming majority of deserving welfare recipients.

I sincerely doubt that many of you would stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of cutting it as a young graduate in today's environment.

I think the government has done a good job cutting the bill for the welfare state but there will always be those who abuse it.

Agree 100%, good post. Had to listen to a diatribe about the woes of the social security from some outstanding citizen in a bar in CM earlier this year. After he staggered away my mate shook his head and remarked that only last week he had been trying to sell him his mums Camden disability parking permit that she no longer needed as she was now in a care home.

[AyG]

When I see frail, gaunt elderly women picking through trashcans I think there's something wrong with a society that doesn't provide for them in their old age. The concept that in Thai society family will always support you doesn't always work. There is definitely a need for a better social security safety net here.

[allane]

Thailand has a S.S. system. Just because you are unaware of it does not mean that it does not exist.

[oxo1947]

.

Wow a welfare system in Thailand----Then we couldn’t take advantage of all the unmarried mothers etc that have to sell their bodies to us old men.

Hell no we don’t want no welfare for Thailand.-----------------------------------------------------

How many people in Thailand are on the welfare system from their own country ?? One of the first welfare acts (I am referring to the UK and commonwealth here) was the old age pension act 1908 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state.

Now many people may rant that they have paid for all that----well you won’t know that until you stop ticking----but you won’t have to worry about it----& isn’t that what welfare is all about.

There are thieves out there---some with guns, some with Biro's.......do you scrap the whole system because of that-----or work to improve its detection methods to eradicate those people

[dapsolapsalai]

The welfare system has destroyed the UK.

Destroyed you say? When did this happen?

[harrry]

The welfare system has destroyed the UK.

Destroyed you say? When did this happen?

After he got all his schooling paid for at the expense of the state. After he had received all the medical care he needed at the cost of the state.

Now others are getting that there and he objects.

Here social welfare was large families. World pressure stopped this since about 1975. Here instead of six children to support their parents there is one and it cannot be done so the state is needed.

[lemoncake]

I am yet to see the work hard people,

It's more like make sure to have kids to support you when you old attitude

[evadgib]

If there was 'welfare' in Thailand ,the system would collapse in a few months because everyone would be on it.

My thoughts exactly. There's enough of 'em wearing "The Great Escape" trousers as it is:)

[GAZZPA]

There are always people who abuse the system in the UK, but money is tight now and the UK government are cracking down, it takes time though. It is very easy to know of 1 or 2 examples and then draw conclusions on the entire welfare state in the UK but it's nonsense really. The UK is a very wealthy country, people pay high taxes and are rewarded as such with a safety net of free medical care, unemployment benefit etc. All societies should have something similar to look after the people.

For the people abusing the system I do believe that their days are numbered but the government is NOT going to pull it as many people genuinely do need it and they would suffer terribly.

Despite what people might believe on this forum there is not a culture of "why bother working". Most people do not want to be reliant on the state for their money, people want to work, have a decent life and live well. You cannot do that living on benefits.

So, would Thailand be better off with a welfare state, absolutely yes it would. However, it should learn from countries like the UK, avoid the pitfalls as much as possible and do it better. How many homeless, poor, uneducated people are there in Thailand? how much better would it be if the state could help those people back on their feet rather then pilfering huge sums of money through a corrupt government?

Also, the education system in the UK is still one of the best in the world. Huge numbers of people leaving school go onto do a degree, according to a recent survey in the telegraph nearly 50% of young people go onto to obtain a degree.. Compared to 30 years ago when this just 5%. There is now even some people who debate that this is too high now! Maybe, maybe not but it is still a testament to level of education in the country.

So, in my opinion Thailand needs a good social security system, they just need to do it better then the UK who spend too much time cracking down on abusers.

[NoshowJones]

Hardendsaul,

its easy to pontificate (how old are you) but when i left school and went to live in London i got married and yes i bought a house for only 4250 pounds ,i was earning the princly sum of about 20 odd quid a week ,i remember well worrying myself sick how we were going to afford the 6 pounds a month rates(councill tax) there was no final salary pension scheme for most of us (unless you work for the govt) ,and what there was was destroyed by Gordon Brown and the labour govt ,even the very small private pension i get is mostly taken in tax. very few of us believe me traded in stocks. yes it was easier to get a job ,but there was not the sort of social money that todays unemployed get believe me , it was easier in some ways ,but believe me when i say ,it was sometimes just as much of a struggle with a young familly and without the massive safty net they now get.

How very true.

[rotary]

The Social Security system is America is nothing but a PONZI scheme. Bernie Madoff should be running the US SS system and not be in jail. In a perfect world all the social security and welfare schemes would be great, Problem is people will take advantage so in the end the schemes work for no one. As TRINK used to say "Human Manure"

[qdinthailand]

The Social Security system in Thailand (is NOT a welfare system) provides 500 baht per month for most workers. 500 baht per month is not something you can live off of. That's why in Chiang Mai all them old guys pedal them slow, heavy-ass 3-wheel bikes around hauling the old pensioners to the markets.

[Joe Mamma]

The welfare system and vote politics in USA ruined it very much, as they are reeling under it now. Combine that with the rampant corruption and cronyism here in SEA and it would be a tool of destruction. Thailand is already a magnet for people seeking opportunity and improvement. They come from all directions and even over big oceans to be here!

[Neeranam]

I had some great couple of years on the UK dole before coming to Thailand.

Thailand has it's own welfare system but just isn't so apparent.

[Joe Mamma]

I think people live longer here as they have purpose and don't fall back on pensions and SS and other Western earned perks. Why do so many people die after retiring??