Fights between rival vocational student gangs in Pathumthani leaves 2 injured

[webfact]

Vocational Students Fight Leaves 2 Injured

By Khaosod Online



BANGKOK: -- Two students have been injured by the fights between rival vocational student gangs in Pathumthani province, police at Pratunam Chulalongkorn Police Station said.

Witnesses alerted the police when students from Pathumthani Technical College (PTTC) and Pathumthani Technology School (P-Tech) violently attacked each other at a bus station in Thanyaburi district.

Two students, reportedly one from PTTC and the other from P-Tech, were transported to the hospital.

Reports indicated that one of the two victims was wounded on both arms by sharpened weapons, whereas the other student is in more severe conditions, suffering from the wounds on both arms and on his back.

Both victims will be retained by the police for further investigation. It is not immediately clear whether the police have arrested any other suspect.

Source: http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNNE5qa3pNalUyT1E9PQ==


-- Khaosod English 2013-12-14

[JoeThePoster]

Both victims will be retained by the police for further investigation.

Retained sound much better than Arrested on their CV, I guess.

[HeavyDrinker]

I can never understand why the institutions seldom seem to punish students that get involved in these shenanigans.

I'm sure big humiliating newspaper style photos of students who have had their backsides kicked plastered all over college would be a good deterrent....

[spare5]

Are you sure it is not Red shirts student vs Anti-govt students?

[Bender]

I can never understand why the institutions seldom seem to punish students that get involved in these shenanigans.

I'm sure big humiliating newspaper style photos of students who have had their backsides kicked plastered all over college would be a good deterrent....

... or maybe a gain of pride!

the worst part is, they certainly dont know each others but because they belong to different school so they must kill each others.

in thailand, school is equal back home to the surburban areas.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Bender

[FangFerang]

Are you sure it is not Red shirts student vs Anti-govt students?

That's a good question. Nonetheless, the vocational schools have been shooting each other and bystanders for quite some time now.

[DocN]

Nononononono...ther REAL problem, is a Thamassat transgender student, behaving disorderly!

She needs to be punished!

This bunch of hooligans is just fighting for the status and the pride of their school!

...as good Thai- people do!

[noitom]

Colorful sheets. Where does the Thai press get these photos that it uses?

[noitom]

Whatever happened to the fight and subsequent murder of the foreigner who was hacked to death by the taxi driver wielding a samurai sword? Maybe Suthep knows the answer.

[Bluespunk]

Are you sure it is not Red shirts student vs Anti-govt students?

yes

[Sunisalom]

Colorful sheets. Where does the Thai press get these photos that it uses?

Kindergarten A&E, of course..

-mel.

[Suradit69]

I can never understand why the institutions seldom seem to punish students that get involved in these shenanigans.

I'm sure big humiliating newspaper style photos of students who have had their backsides kicked plastered all over college would be a good deterrent....

It hasn't worked so far for tourists or expats who get humiliating photos plastered all over Thai Visa and Pattaya One.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Suradit69

[Baerboxer]

Whatever happened to the fight and subsequent murder of the foreigner who was hacked to death by the taxi driver wielding a samurai sword? Maybe Suthep knows the answer.

<deleted> ?

Completely off topic. And <deleted> does either of these have to do with Suthep?

[Mudcrab]

Whatever happened to the fight and subsequent murder of the foreigner who was hacked to death by the taxi driver wielding a samurai sword? Maybe Suthep knows the answer.

<deleted> ?

Completely off topic. And <deleted> does either of these have to do with Suthep?

Hacked to death?? Stabbed maybe - still not a good thing.

[Andre0720]

Nahhh,

Resolving problems amongst themselves..

Merely trying to make the world better..

Farangs are next in their quest...

[Suradit69]

Nahhh,

Resolving problems amongst themselves..

Merely trying to make the world better..

Farangs are next in their quest...

"Farangs are next in their quest..."

Some people certainly are harboring paranoid delusions. Not everything in Thailand is targeting or concerned with farangs ... except in the minds of some self-absorbed farangs themselves.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Suradit69

[DGIE]

Are you sure it is not Red shirts student vs Anti-govt students?

I think so.

are there no snipers seen?

[cup-O-coffee]

Maybe they are simply behaving like their mentors in government?

When in doubt... KILL! (both figuratively and literally).

[laislica]

Please correct me if I am wrong but.

If someone wants to learn a trade they can choose to go to a vocational college.

They have to find the fees, buy books, uniform etc.

It is their choice to attend, they are not dumped there.

An evidence policeman told me that each college has a gang, run by the senior students.

Youngsters joining the college are encouraged to beat up students from other colleges as a right of passage, the more violent the better.

The real problem is that Thailand treats people less than 18 as children, having no responsibility for their actions. Punishment is next to nothing so there is no deterrent.

Perhaps, as mentioned by another one American, they should be banned from vocational colleges for life.

Not just the one who knifed, shot or killed someone, true they should receive a harsher sentence, but that all the members of both groups should be classed as accessories to whatever assault took place and they should also be banned for life.

This would mean that by taking part in the fight, they would risk the chance of receiving a qualification and that would harm their chance of getting a better paid job.

They would be encouraged to run away rather than stand and fight/defend.

Murders of students by students happen too regularly.

At the end of May there were two murders in the same day in Bangkok, got a spot on TV news and that was that.

In 2012, 150 delinquent students were sent to a boot camp in the hope of changing their behaviour. That didn't work well then did it?

What is needed is a firm statement about harsh punishment and a promise that the punishment will be carried out.

It is such a shame that this wonderful country is blighted in this way.

I personally know many Thais that are extremely worried when they see mature students on the streets. Why, because they have suffered a personal tragedy or know someone who has.

Now change and improvements are being introduced to help the people of Thailand, maybe now is the time to address this problem in a way to remove the problem once and for all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Artisi]

Whatever happened to the fight and subsequent murder of the foreigner who was hacked to death by the taxi driver wielding a samurai sword? Maybe Suthep knows the answer.

Is that the best you can do, the comment is about as interesting as watching paint dry.

[rametindallas]

Please correct me if I am wrong but.

If someone wants to learn a trade they can choose to go to a vocational college.

They have to find the fees, buy books, uniform etc.

It is their choice to attend, they are not dumped there.

An evidence policeman told me that each college has a gang, run by the senior students.

Youngsters joining the college are encouraged to beat up students from other colleges as a right of passage, the more violent the better.

The real problem is that Thailand treats people less than 18 as children, having no responsibility for their actions. Punishment is next to nothing so there is no deterrent.

Perhaps, as mentioned by another one American, they should be banned from vocational colleges for life.

Not just the one who knifed, shot or killed someone, true they should receive a harsher sentence, but that all the members of both groups should be classed as accessories to whatever assault took place and they should also be banned for life.

This would mean that by taking part in the fight, they would risk the chance of receiving a qualification and that would harm their chance of getting a better paid job.

They would be encouraged to run away rather than stand and fight/defend.

Murders of students by students happen too regularly.

At the end of May there were two murders in the same day in Bangkok, got a spot on TV news and that was that.

In 2012, 150 delinquent students were sent to a boot camp in the hope of changing their behaviour. That didn't work well then did it?

What is needed is a firm statement about harsh punishment and a promise that the punishment will be carried out.

It is such a shame that this wonderful country is blighted in this way.

I personally know many Thais that are extremely worried when they see mature students on the streets. Why, because they have suffered a personal tragedy or know someone who has.

Now change and improvements are being introduced to help the people of Thailand, maybe now is the time to address this problem in a way to remove the problem once and for all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not trying to pick a fight, but... You write this as if these students are capable of forethought. These young men are only disciplined by their teachers, not by parents, and then, only to force them to respect the teachers. This causes two things to happen: They learn that respect is earned by violence, as exhibited by teachers, and rival students are not worthy of respect and must be put in their place. Impulsive behavior is the norm and controls be damned is the rule. Since they are a product of their environment, why punish them for life with shame. Better to instill civic values as the NCPO has suggested.

[laislica]

Please correct me if I am wrong but.

If someone wants to learn a trade they can choose to go to a vocational college.

They have to find the fees, buy books, uniform etc.

It is their choice to attend, they are not dumped there.

An evidence policeman told me that each college has a gang, run by the senior students.

Youngsters joining the college are encouraged to beat up students from other colleges as a right of passage, the more violent the better.

The real problem is that Thailand treats people less than 18 as children, having no responsibility for their actions. Punishment is next to nothing so there is no deterrent.

Perhaps, as mentioned by another one American, they should be banned from vocational colleges for life.

Not just the one who knifed, shot or killed someone, true they should receive a harsher sentence, but that all the members of both groups should be classed as accessories to whatever assault took place and they should also be banned for life.

This would mean that by taking part in the fight, they would risk the chance of receiving a qualification and that would harm their chance of getting a better paid job.

They would be encouraged to run away rather than stand and fight/defend.

Murders of students by students happen too regularly.

At the end of May there were two murders in the same day in Bangkok, got a spot on TV news and that was that.

In 2012, 150 delinquent students were sent to a boot camp in the hope of changing their behaviour. That didn't work well then did it?

What is needed is a firm statement about harsh punishment and a promise that the punishment will be carried out.

It is such a shame that this wonderful country is blighted in this way.

I personally know many Thais that are extremely worried when they see mature students on the streets. Why, because they have suffered a personal tragedy or know someone who has.

Now change and improvements are being introduced to help the people of Thailand, maybe now is the time to address this problem in a way to remove the problem once and for all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not trying to pick a fight, but... You write this as if these students are capable of forethought. These young men are only disciplined by their teachers, not by parents, and then, only to force them to respect the teachers. This causes two things to happen: They learn that respect is earned by violence, as exhibited by teachers, and rival students are not worthy of respect and must be put in their place. Impulsive behavior is the norm and controls be damned is the rule. Since they are a product of their environment, why punish them for life with shame. Better to instill civic values as the NCPO has suggested.

Thank you for your post, it is good to find someone prepared to have a discussion on this forum without taking points personally when they differ from their own POV.

I tend to agree with you but change has to start somewhere.

Yes it will be hard for the ones "who are made an example of" and in some way unfair that all the others got away with it.

It would be wonderful if civic values could be instilled in society but these sound like empty words, a bit like the party political speech by Peter Sellers 65 years ago.

"Grasp I beseech you! the opportunities that are offered, "Oops, sorry Madam".

The real problem is to change decades of this bad behaviour a sorry the whole of society - how do you do that in practical terms?

IMO the TV here instills the opposite of civic values. Soaps full of mindless violence, severe beatings with fists, wooden clubs, guns, you name it! They abuse women, show all manner of nasty, devious behaviour, jealous land everything that is bad for a society.

Thai society is also very superstitious, their idea of reincarnation allows them to have a very different belief about life and death from a western view point. I am not trying to say the one view point is right or better than the other.

Rather, that the emotional environment is very different in Asia and not easy to comprehend.

Change has to be wanted before it will happen, it cannot easily be instilled.

If you discuss this student problem with Thais, you may find, as it did, that they all want the problem to go away, but.

Confrontation is a no no in Thai society, white lies are preferable to the truth if the truth would hurt.

Simply to stand up and be counted is an act of confrontation and is therefore to be avoided, not the least because such actions will identify you and there could be repercussions........

Thais have an upbringing that instills values such as datanju, meaning an obligation to parents, nam jai, meaning the generosity - of parents for bringing children into the world and taking care of them. Thus, family ties are much stronger in Asia than in the west (maybe the Spanish are an exception to this idea). This is not the case in the west, we are brought up to stand alone and take care of ourselves.

However, it seems to me that it is much more accepted in Thailand that married men will have many mistresses or girlfriends.

Many Thai marriages produce children and then break up, the father goes off and marries again and produces more children, then abandons them to repeat this cycle many many times. Leaving their ex wives to provide for and bring up their children.

There is no responsibility taken for actions in Thailand and children learn that very quickly.

Having learned, they then push the boundaries, as indeed all children do.

If there is no control of the boundaries, they become set further out by each generation and this is clearly what is happening here.

So, how to regain control of the boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not?

Here is a specific problem and if the General reset the boundaries, made it clear where those boundaries are. This would involve the teachers as well to train the students in an understanding of

what the change is

Who is affected by the changes

What the punishment will be

When the changes will be implemented.

Give a timescale such that the above points can be taught say, during the current school year.

Implement at the start of say, the next school year.

Apply this to all students from senior schools, poly technics, universities etc.

These are my opinions and I share them in the hope that constructive discussions take place to raise the understanding of the depth of the problem and to find possible solutions that would work in this society.

Vested interests - you betcha -losing a 19 year old to this is not easy to stomach!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[rametindallas]

Please correct me if I am wrong but.

If someone wants to learn a trade they can choose to go to a vocational college.

They have to find the fees, buy books, uniform etc.

It is their choice to attend, they are not dumped there.

An evidence policeman told me that each college has a gang, run by the senior students.

Youngsters joining the college are encouraged to beat up students from other colleges as a right of passage, the more violent the better.

The real problem is that Thailand treats people less than 18 as children, having no responsibility for their actions. Punishment is next to nothing so there is no deterrent.

Perhaps, as mentioned by another one American, they should be banned from vocational colleges for life.

Not just the one who knifed, shot or killed someone, true they should receive a harsher sentence, but that all the members of both groups should be classed as accessories to whatever assault took place and they should also be banned for life.

This would mean that by taking part in the fight, they would risk the chance of receiving a qualification and that would harm their chance of getting a better paid job.

They would be encouraged to run away rather than stand and fight/defend.

Murders of students by students happen too regularly.

At the end of May there were two murders in the same day in Bangkok, got a spot on TV news and that was that.

In 2012, 150 delinquent students were sent to a boot camp in the hope of changing their behaviour. That didn't work well then did it?

What is needed is a firm statement about harsh punishment and a promise that the punishment will be carried out.

It is such a shame that this wonderful country is blighted in this way.

I personally know many Thais that are extremely worried when they see mature students on the streets. Why, because they have suffered a personal tragedy or know someone who has.

Now change and improvements are being introduced to help the people of Thailand, maybe now is the time to address this problem in a way to remove the problem once and for all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not trying to pick a fight, but... You write this as if these students are capable of forethought. These young men are only disciplined by their teachers, not by parents, and then, only to force them to respect the teachers. This causes two things to happen: They learn that respect is earned by violence, as exhibited by teachers, and rival students are not worthy of respect and must be put in their place. Impulsive behavior is the norm and controls be damned is the rule. Since they are a product of their environment, why punish them for life with shame. Better to instill civic values as the NCPO has suggested.

Thank you for your post, it is good to find someone prepared to have a discussion on this forum without taking points personally when they differ from their own POV.

I tend to agree with you but change has to start somewhere.

Yes it will be hard for the ones "who are made an example of" and in some way unfair that all the others got away with it.

It would be wonderful if civic values could be instilled in society but these sound like empty words, a bit like the party political speech by Peter Sellers 65 years ago.

"Grasp I beseech you! the opportunities that are offered, "Oops, sorry Madam".

The real problem is to change decades of this bad behaviour a sorry the whole of society - how do you do that in practical terms?

IMO the TV here instills the opposite of civic values. Soaps full of mindless violence, severe beatings with fists, wooden clubs, guns, you name it! They abuse women, show all manner of nasty, devious behaviour, jealous land everything that is bad for a society.

Thai society is also very superstitious, their idea of reincarnation allows them to have a very different belief about life and death from a western view point. I am not trying to say the one view point is right or better than the other.

Rather, that the emotional environment is very different in Asia and not easy to comprehend.

Change has to be wanted before it will happen, it cannot easily be instilled.

If you discuss this student problem with Thais, you may find, as it did, that they all want the problem to go away, but.

Confrontation is a no no in Thai society, white lies are preferable to the truth if the truth would hurt.

Simply to stand up and be counted is an act of confrontation and is therefore to be avoided, not the least because such actions will identify you and there could be repercussions........

Thais have an upbringing that instills values such as datanju, meaning an obligation to parents, nam jai, meaning the generosity - of parents for bringing children into the world and taking care of them. Thus, family ties are much stronger in Asia than in the west (maybe the Spanish are an exception to this idea). This is not the case in the west, we are brought up to stand alone and take care of ourselves.

However, it seems to me that it is much more accepted in Thailand that married men will have many mistresses or girlfriends.

Many Thai marriages produce children and then break up, the father goes off and marries again and produces more children, then abandons them to repeat this cycle many many times. Leaving their ex wives to provide for and bring up their children.

There is no responsibility taken for actions in Thailand and children learn that very quickly.

Having learned, they then push the boundaries, as indeed all children do.

If there is no control of the boundaries, they become set further out by each generation and this is clearly what is happening here.

So, how to regain control of the boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not?

Here is a specific problem and if the General reset the boundaries, made it clear where those boundaries are. This would involve the teachers as well to train the students in an understanding of

what the change is

Who is affected by the changes

What the punishment will be

When the changes will be implemented.

Give a timescale such that the above points can be taught say, during the current school year.

Implement at the start of say, the next school year.

Apply this to all students from senior schools, poly technics, universities etc.

These are my opinions and I share them in the hope that constructive discussions take place to raise the understanding of the depth of the problem and to find possible solutions that would work in this society.

Vested interests - you betcha -losing a 19 year old to this is not easy to stomach!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Excellent analysis and I completely agree with you assessment of Thai culture. It is clear, from your post, that you have given this some thought and have made the effort to try to understand Thai culture. I, myself, have no idea where or how to begin to affect a change that breaks this vicious cycle of violence and lack of responsibility. In fact, instilling a commonality and brotherhood through a civics class was my only suggestion. That won't be enough. I have already lived most of my life and I don't expect to see much change in this culture before I am gone. My Thai friend/apartment mate, back in 1970, used to tell me that high school fights, involving thousands of students, were common before he moved to attend university in the US, so I guess things have changed somewhat in the last 45 years.

One thing, in case you didn't already know, most Thais won't debate and will agree with you even when, inside, they disagree. Something to do with 'krieng jai' (not wanting to cause inconvenience or discomfort to others).

[laislica]

Please correct me if I am wrong but.

If someone wants to learn a trade they can choose to go to a vocational college.

They have to find the fees, buy books, uniform etc.

It is their choice to attend, they are not dumped there.

An evidence policeman told me that each college has a gang, run by the senior students.

Youngsters joining the college are encouraged to beat up students from other colleges as a right of passage, the more violent the better.

The real problem is that Thailand treats people less than 18 as children, having no responsibility for their actions. Punishment is next to nothing so there is no deterrent.

Perhaps, as mentioned by another one American, they should be banned from vocational colleges for life.

Not just the one who knifed, shot or killed someone, true they should receive a harsher sentence, but that all the members of both groups should be classed as accessories to whatever assault took place and they should also be banned for life.

This would mean that by taking part in the fight, they would risk the chance of receiving a qualification and that would harm their chance of getting a better paid job.

They would be encouraged to run away rather than stand and fight/defend.

Murders of students by students happen too regularly.

At the end of May there were two murders in the same day in Bangkok, got a spot on TV news and that was that.

In 2012, 150 delinquent students were sent to a boot camp in the hope of changing their behaviour. That didn't work well then did it?

What is needed is a firm statement about harsh punishment and a promise that the punishment will be carried out.

It is such a shame that this wonderful country is blighted in this way.

I personally know many Thais that are extremely worried when they see mature students on the streets. Why, because they have suffered a personal tragedy or know someone who has.

Now change and improvements are being introduced to help the people of Thailand, maybe now is the time to address this problem in a way to remove the problem once and for all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not trying to pick a fight, but... You write this as if these students are capable of forethought. These young men are only disciplined by their teachers, not by parents, and then, only to force them to respect the teachers. This causes two things to happen: They learn that respect is earned by violence, as exhibited by teachers, and rival students are not worthy of respect and must be put in their place. Impulsive behavior is the norm and controls be damned is the rule. Since they are a product of their environment, why punish them for life with shame. Better to instill civic values as the NCPO has suggested.

Thank you for your post, it is good to find someone prepared to have a discussion on this forum without taking points personally when they differ from their own POV.

I tend to agree with you but change has to start somewhere.

Yes it will be hard for the ones "who are made an example of" and in some way unfair that all the others got away with it.

It would be wonderful if civic values could be instilled in society but these sound like empty words, a bit like the party political speech by Peter Sellers 65 years ago.

"Grasp I beseech you! the opportunities that are offered, "Oops, sorry Madam".

The real problem is to change decades of this bad behaviour a sorry the whole of society - how do you do that in practical terms?

IMO the TV here instills the opposite of civic values. Soaps full of mindless violence, severe beatings with fists, wooden clubs, guns, you name it! They abuse women, show all manner of nasty, devious behaviour, jealous land everything that is bad for a society.

Thai society is also very superstitious, their idea of reincarnation allows them to have a very different belief about life and death from a western view point. I am not trying to say the one view point is right or better than the other.

Rather, that the emotional environment is very different in Asia and not easy to comprehend.

Change has to be wanted before it will happen, it cannot easily be instilled.

If you discuss this student problem with Thais, you may find, as it did, that they all want the problem to go away, but.

Confrontation is a no no in Thai society, white lies are preferable to the truth if the truth would hurt.

Simply to stand up and be counted is an act of confrontation and is therefore to be avoided, not the least because such actions will identify you and there could be repercussions........

Thais have an upbringing that instills values such as datanju, meaning an obligation to parents, nam jai, meaning the generosity - of parents for bringing children into the world and taking care of them. Thus, family ties are much stronger in Asia than in the west (maybe the Spanish are an exception to this idea). This is not the case in the west, we are brought up to stand alone and take care of ourselves.

However, it seems to me that it is much more accepted in Thailand that married men will have many mistresses or girlfriends.

Many Thai marriages produce children and then break up, the father goes off and marries again and produces more children, then abandons them to repeat this cycle many many times. Leaving their ex wives to provide for and bring up their children.

There is no responsibility taken for actions in Thailand and children learn that very quickly.

Having learned, they then push the boundaries, as indeed all children do.

If there is no control of the boundaries, they become set further out by each generation and this is clearly what is happening here.

So, how to regain control of the boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not?

Here is a specific problem and if the General reset the boundaries, made it clear where those boundaries are. This would involve the teachers as well to train the students in an understanding of

what the change is

Who is affected by the changes

What the punishment will be

When the changes will be implemented.

Give a timescale such that the above points can be taught say, during the current school year.

Implement at the start of say, the next school year.

Apply this to all students from senior schools, poly technics, universities etc.

These are my opinions and I share them in the hope that constructive discussions take place to raise the understanding of the depth of the problem and to find possible solutions that would work in this society.

Vested interests - you betcha -losing a 19 year old to this is not easy to stomach!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Excellent analysis and I completely agree with you assessment of Thai culture. It is clear, from your post, that you have given this some thought and have made the effort to try to understand Thai culture. I, myself, have no idea where or how to begin to affect a change that breaks this vicious cycle of violence and lack of responsibility. In fact, instilling a commonality and brotherhood through a civics class was my only suggestion. That won't be enough. I have already lived most of my life and I don't expect to see much change in this culture before I am gone. My Thai friend/apartment mate, back in 1970, used to tell me that high school fights, involving thousands of students, were common before he moved to attend university in the US, so I guess things have changed somewhat in the last 45 years.

One thing, in case you didn't already know, most Thais won't debate and will agree with you even when, inside, they disagree. Something to do with 'krieng jai' (not wanting to cause inconvenience or discomfort to others).

Indeed, not knowing how to break the cycle is a big problem and yes, even when they don't agree, Thais May well smile, as if in agreement.

Therefore, why not apply the medicine and bandage directly on the wound?

Promise harsh penalties and make an example of them.

When it really hurts, they will stop.

Hard luck for the first lot to be punished - but, hey, they were warned and up to them.

Thai society needs to learn that they are responsible for their actions and, where necessary, pay the price for them.

No such thing as a free pass!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand