SS Water Tank -- BEWARE!

[Ticketmaster]

In March of 2556 I purchased 2500 liter SS water tank. I think it is Diamond brand (It has the red diamond logo on it), from the same catalogue as the GreenTree/Sandstone plastic tanks. It is either model DMCB2500 or DMB2500 (whichever was the most expensive -- I tried to purchase top-of-the-line). Instead of continuous metal, it has a welded horizontal band about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. I was not happy about this splice, but thought it must be okay as they are selling it. I probably set it on the slab and filled it in April. It is now December 2556, so it has been filled with water about 8 months. There is a roof built over it and the workers were blocking the walls today to make an enclosed pump house.

I was in there laying out where I wanted shutters, the door, vent blocks, etc., and noticed a tiny rust spot on the weld. As I looked closer, there were three places around the welded beltline where there were clusters of these rust spots, 14 in all, some weeping and one with a tiny jet of water spraying out! I stopped the work and will replace the tank with a plastic one.

I called the service number on the side of the tank and they said they would come repair it. I said, "No way: I don't trust it; I want it out of there." We'll see how that turns out, as it cost 19,000 baht. I will bring up the issue at the shop where I bought it, which lucky for me, has very good service.

Community water is on a well. There is iron content in the water, but right at the the upper borderline of the government standard "acceptable" level. I was aware of a potential problem with iron and stainless steel, but figured I would be good for 8-10 years anyway. Surprise, surprise. Eight months!

There have been discussions on this board about stainless vs. plastic water tanks. Anybody trying to decide this issue that has any iron at all in their water may want to opt for plastic. This is a very bad scene for me.

I was VERY lucky the workers did not block up the pump house two months ago and I caught the leaks before they did block it. I did not want double doors in the pump house (SuperBlock) and knew I might have to change the tank some day. I just figured I would cut a hole through the block, change the tank and reblock it. I never thought the tank would be shot in 8 months!

Edited December 16, 2013 by Ticketmaster

[wayned]

I've had 2 stainless steel tanks for over 15 years with no problems or leaks. I also have local well water with a very high mineral content, not sure of the % iron. The top and bottom are welded on and there is one long weld the length of the tank welding the main ring together. There is no evidence of rust. The only rust is where the inlet/outlet fittings have been welded, dissimilar metals, but they have not leaked in 15 years.You might have just got a defective tank.

Edited December 16, 2013 by wayned

[Ticketmaster]

I've had 2 stainless steel tanks for over 15 years with no problems or leaks. I also have local well water with a very high mineral content, not sure of the % iron. The top and bottom are welded on and there is one long weld the length of the tank welding the main ring together. There is no evidence of rust. The only rust is where the inlet/outlet fittings have been welded, dissimilar metals, but they have not leaked in 15 years.You might have just got a defective tank.

With 14 leaks in eight months, it was VERY defective. I really wanted the stainless, but, gees, I just can't trust it. there is also manganese in the water. Not being a metallurgist, I do not know if this also has a negative impact on stainless, or if the manganese and iron together have some kind of synergistic effect.

I particularly wanted the stainless tank because of the convex bottom with drain at the bottom center, which allows some of the water to be easily drawn off the bottom to clear sediment. The plastic tanks have a flat bottom with the drain about two inches above the bottom so that all sediment can never be drawn off. When manganese is exposed to oxygen (they have an aerator over at the community water supply), black manganese dioxide forms and precipitates out as a sediment.

With my experience (14 leaks in three different places), and intention to block up the pump house, would you dare to put in another stainless tank??? I am very disappointed.

[Cylon]

Wrong grade of stainless, not enough Chromium

Edited December 16, 2013 by Cylon

[bankruatsteve]

Proper ss should not be affected by iron or any other metal content in the water. Maybe the weld didn't contain enough Cr or just not done properly?

[IMHO]

If there's that much iron content in your water, shouldn't you be filtering it before you pump it into the tank?

Even if it looks clean as it flows in, high iron content can go orange/brown in less than a day once it's standing water.

Edited December 16, 2013 by IMHO

[billd766]

I have had a couple of s/s water tanks now for about 10 years with no sign of any leaks.

They are only used for rainwater collected of the roof and they get refilled about twice a year and they are also cleaned out after the rainy season starts.

[Ticketmaster]

If there's that much iron content in your water, shouldn't you be filtering it before you pump it into the tank?

Even if it looks clean as it flows in, high iron content can go orange/brown in less than a day once it's standing water.

The house in which I am living is right across the street from the house I am building and we are using the same water, direct from the pipe from the community water supply. No filter; no tank; no pump. The water has iron, but not enough to cause the orange brown problem of excessively high iron. We do, however, get a lot of black manganese dioxide precipitate. Since the iron is within "acceptable" levels and did not seem to present a problem of any kind in the old house, I wasn't too concerned about trying to filter it out.

I will using filtration at the new house, including a BIRM filter to remove the manganese.

[Ticketmaster]

Wrong grade of stainless, not enough Chromium

Since it seemed to be a top grade tank, what can I do? Do you think it was a bad batch of stainless steel or just a bad brand? I see these Diamond tanks everywhere. Should I try another one (replacement), with the risk that I might have to knock out a blok wall in another 8 or 10 months?

[Ticketmaster]

Proper ss should not be affected by iron or any other metal content in the water. Maybe the weld didn't contain enough Cr or just not done properly?

A friend of mine who was a professional welder all his life suspects bad welding, maybe contaminated. But you would think these things are made in a factory on a jig with high quality control. Of course, this is Thailand . . .

[Ticketmaster]

I've had 2 stainless steel tanks for over 15 years with no problems or leaks. I also have local well water with a very high mineral content, not sure of the % iron. The top and bottom are welded on and there is one long weld the length of the tank welding the main ring together. There is no evidence of rust. The only rust is where the inlet/outlet fittings have been welded, dissimilar metals, but they have not leaked in 15 years.You might have just got a defective tank.

May I ask, what brand are your two tanks?

[Mrjlh]

Sounds they didn't do a very good job of passivating the welds when they manufactured it. Passification removes extra oxides (simple explanation) that form during welding. First sign of bad passification is "rust". Water has nothing to do with it use its in contact with salt water. It could have been repaired but since you have pin holes squirting water it has to be replaced.

[Ticketmaster]

Pictures:

Tank Defects.pdf

[bankruatsteve]

Proper ss should not be affected by iron or any other metal content in the water. Maybe the weld didn't contain enough Cr or just not done properly?

Every SS is affected by iron content in the water. Place a piece of mild steel on your most expansibe kitchen knives. Make it wet and wait a few days.......

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And then it will turn into gold? Stainless steel is not affected by water or whatever is in the water - that's why it's called stainless steel. Do your own experiment - it wont' work.

[indyuk]

Proper ss should not be affected by iron or any other metal content in the water. Maybe the weld didn't contain enough Cr or just not done properly?

A friend of mine who was a professional welder all his life suspects bad welding, maybe contaminated. But you would think these things are made in a factory on a jig with high quality control. Of course, this is Thailand . . .

I definitely suspect the welding. Thailand's certified ss welders easily meet ISO standards. Perhaps the works inspector missed your tank and inclusions in the weld were undiscovered caused the joint to fail.

A welding inspector could test your tank and tell you why it's failing. Such may give you the confidence to buy a replacement and ammunition to get it for free from the original supplier.

[bankruatsteve]

Pictures:

Tank Defects.pdf

Maybe an expert could tell for sure - but that looks more like damage than weld defect? Did you already consult with the dealer? I think all would be interested to hear explanation.

[wayned]

It's obvious that the tank is defective and should be replaced by the manufacturer through the dealer where you purchased it! That said, Good luck, TIT!

[IMHO]

So what did customer service say?

[Ticketmaster]

Seeing the picture. Are you sure your workers did not use a disk grinder with the sparks/dust hitting your tank?

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With sparks and dust hitting my tank in several different places, including two placed on opposite sides of the tank, exactly on the welding running the circumference of the tank? The odds of that would be pretty slim. On top of that, I never saw anybody using a grinder in there and there was no reason to use one. The steel for the roof was cut with a saw well away from the tank.

[Ticketmaster]

I make my weekly trip to town on Wednesday (tomorrow). I'll consult the dealer. They have fabulous service, speak English and I have a good relationship with them, so I do not expect any problems. This is one of those times I am glad I paid a little bit more at the shop with the great service (loyalty) than I could have paid somewhere else!

My dilemma is whether I should go the safe route and get a plastic replacement tank (which I do not want) or try a SS replacement tank from the same manufacturer. In the later case, I am reminded of that definition of insanity: repeating the same behavior over and over, each time expecting a different result. If I get the SS replacement, then block up the wall and it springs a leak next year, I'll sure be kicking myself in the ass. I'll have to tear down the block, and may not get any satisfaction from dealer or manufacturer a second time.

I don't know how they build these tanks, but they sell 10's of thousands of them all over Thailand. I see the tanks with the red diamond logo everywhere. So with that kind of production volume, it seems that the factory would have a automated line with these welds performed by a machine rather than a person. In that case, there should be pretty good consistency, and the likelihood of a bad weld would seem remote -- unless they had an entire bad batch of them.

In any event, there is absolutely no visual evidence of damage to the tank. The problem is tiny pin holes right at the weld that runs the circumference of the tank. As you can see from the pictures, the most of the pin holes are in two major groupings rather than spread randomly around the circumference. However, two groupings are on opposite sides of the tank, so if there was some kind of damage, it would have had to occur two times in two different places and what are the odds of that?

I will report after consulting the dealer, stay tuned. However, in all honesty, I don't expect anybody to explain anything to me, as curious as I am (it isn't the Thai way; nobody asks why and nobody explains why). I suspect they will just agree to replace the tank or refund my money, leaving the mystery intact.

[IMHO]

What mystery? you have a bad weld - shit happens.

[NanLaew]

Those top and bottom assembly welds are done by a machine.

It's a bad weld.

Regardless if the stock tank, welding material, welding machine or operator was bad.

Show the pictures to the 'fabulous' rep at the store you bought it.

Warranty job with new tank.

End of story.

[nputman]

John just looked at the picture, looks to me like they used steel retaining chains when shipping/moving and failed to remove the oxides deposited from it in Nitric solution.

Also possibility of steel wire brush used to remove staining.

I looked inside the SS tank I have and there are several spots of contamination rusting but not to the pitting stage yet.

Most likely made from 301 or 304 SS and not 316 which is more resistant than the priors.

Any spots directly on the welds? if not then a nasty little thing called weld boundary corrosion effected it.

Generally caused by improper post weld treatment.

Tank I have is Advanced Stainless company and is about 6 yrs old.

Blue plastic good replacement if kept in shaded area.

Edited December 17, 2013 by nputman

[IMHO]

John just looked at the picture, looks to me like they used steel retaining chains when shipping/moving and failed to remove the oxides deposited from it in Nitric solution.

Also possibility of steel wire brush used to remove staining.

I looked inside the SS tank I have and there are several spots of contamination rusting but not to the pitting stage yet.

Most likely made from 301 or 304 SS and not 316 which is more resistant than the priors.

Any spots directly on the welds? if not then a nasty little thing called weld boundary corrosion effected it.

Generally caused by improper post weld treatment.

Tank I have is Advanced Stainless company and is about 6 yrs old.

Blue plastic good replacement if kept in shaded area.

Sticker says 18-8, not 16-10, so it's not 316.

[transam]

Sounds like perhaps crap welding rods/wire was used.

[nputman]

John this should answer your questions.

http://www.cqj.dk/photo-stainless-steel.htm

[transam]

I bought some stainless covered tap connectors, they rusted away...........

[Ticketmaster]

I went to the shop where I purchased the tank, receipt and pictures in hand, They did not even blink and immediately offered me two (2) of the 2,000 liter "Sand Stone" plastic tanks. Or, they would replace the SS tank, if that is what I want. They were pushing me to the plastic tanks, however.

If fact, when I originally bought the SS tank, the owner of the shop asked me if i was on a well. I told her, "Yes, our community water supply is on a well." She told me that there had been a lot of problems with the SS tanks on well systems because of minerals in the water, and urged me to buy a plastic tank with a 20 year warranty for less than half the price of SS. I bought SS. I had my reasons, that had to do with the layout of the tank itself (inlets, outlet & drain).

After all the help from the folks here on this forum, especially Noel, and independent research, I have no doubt that my tank had a defective weld, since it failed in 8 months. However, since I am enclosing the tank into a pump house, I also have little doubt that I would be playing Russian Roulette if I get another SS tank, given the fact that I do have minerals in my water, especially iron and manganese. Even with good welds, it could fail from anywhere from 5-15 years down the road. Fifteen years would be great, but do I want risk having to tear out a wall in five years (or even in 8 months if I get another bad weld)? No.

The thing I hate most about the plastic tanks are the connections. I do not know who designed them, but the are just not convenient and require more turns in the pipes to get them connected right. The SS tanks with two inlets at the top, an outlet at the side and a drain at the bottom at 9 o'clock to the inlet, it is perfect. I need the two top inlets because I use a float switch to protect the pump in the event the community water supply cuts off and the tank draws down. I do NOT want two tanks. I do not need two tanks, so it only adds a level of complexity. Since my tank is house, UV is no concern.

Thus, I have decided to go with one of those dark blue plastic water tanks. They are available in larger formats that the "Sand Stone" type tanks, and they have places on the top that are reinforced whee extra perforations can be made. These tanks should last a lifetime if kept out of the sun. The "Sand Stone" type tanks are only 5mm thick and adding a perforation to one of those will not only void the warranty, but is asking for trouble.

I sure did like that SS tank in all respects. Damned shame they use shit steel, and have an unnecessary welded seam round the middle (too cheap to use the wider rolled stock).

[Ticketmaster]

I went to the shop where I purchased the tank, receipt and pictures in hand, They did not even blink and immediately offered me two (2) of the 2,000 liter "Sand Stone" plastic tanks. Or, they would replace the SS tank, if that is what I want. They were pushing me to the plastic tanks, however.

If fact, when I originally bought the SS tank, the owner of the shop asked me if i was on a well. I told her, "Yes, our community water supply is on a well." She told me that there had been a lot of problems with the SS tanks on well systems because of minerals in the water, and urged me to buy a plastic tank with a 20 year warranty for less than half the price of SS. I bought SS. I had my reasons, that had to do with the layout of the tank itself (inlets, outlet & drain).

After all the help from the folks here on this forum, especially Noel, and independent research, I have no doubt that my tank had a defective weld, since it failed in 8 months. However, since I am enclosing the tank into a pump house, I also have little doubt that I would be playing Russian Roulette if I get another SS tank, given the fact that I do have minerals in my water, especially iron and manganese. Even with good welds, it could fail from anywhere from 5-15 years down the road. Fifteen years would be great, but do I want risk having to tear out a wall in five years (or even in 8 months if I get another bad weld)? No.

The thing I hate most about the plastic tanks are the connections. I do not know who designed them, but the are just not convenient and require more turns in the pipes to get them connected right. The SS tanks with two inlets at the top, an outlet at the side and a drain at the bottom at 9 o'clock to the inlet, it is perfect. I need the two top inlets because I use a float switch to protect the pump in the event the community water supply cuts off and the tank draws down. I do NOT want two tanks. I do not need two tanks, so it only adds a level of complexity. Since my tank is house, UV is no concern.

Thus, I have decided to go with one of those dark blue plastic water tanks. They are available in larger formats that the "Sand Stone" type tanks, and they have places on the top that are reinforced whee extra perforations can be made. These tanks should last a lifetime if kept out of the sun. The "Sand Stone" type tanks are only 5mm thick and adding a perforation to one of those will not only void the warranty, but is asking for trouble.

I sure did like that SS tank in all respects. Damned shame they use shit steel, and have an unnecessary welded seam round the middle (too cheap to use the wider rolled stock).

Good service. I do not agree with your statement that they used "shit steel" if you need a metal tank what can stand every environment and medium stored in it, then choose platinum. Stainless is not corrosion free. Platinum is.

Arjen.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The shop in Phitsanulok, Saoake, has over the top service. They are strictly a "can do" company. The workers are all smiles and happy, too, so I have to think they are treated well.

As for the SS tank, perhaps not “shit steel,” but certainly shit construction methods and quality control, which resulted in shit steel. It used shit construction by having a weld that could have been completely avoided with wider material, and they either failed to or did a defective job of pickling and passivation.

I am NOT complaining. Considering the fact that the tank will go into a closed building where replacing it will be a large problem, I am lucky that the SS tank was defective.

Chlorides are also hell on SS. Chlorine contamination can be a serious problem. My water has a slight amount amount of chlorides (16.6 MG/L), which contributes to the problem. Mixing chlorides and iron is also not good (my iron is 0.57MG/L). All in all, and given my ignorance at the time, a SS tank was a poor choice for my water.

Bottom line for TV members considering a SS water tank: You may want to have your water tested for iron and chlorides and educate yourself on stainless steel before purchasing. There is a lot more to it than I ever knew.

[IMHO]

I went to the shop where I purchased the tank, receipt and pictures in hand, They did not even blink and immediately offered me two (2) of the 2,000 liter "Sand Stone" plastic tanks. Or, they would replace the SS tank, if that is what I want. They were pushing me to the plastic tanks, however.

If fact, when I originally bought the SS tank, the owner of the shop asked me if i was on a well. I told her, "Yes, our community water supply is on a well." She told me that there had been a lot of problems with the SS tanks on well systems because of minerals in the water, and urged me to buy a plastic tank with a 20 year warranty for less than half the price of SS. I bought SS. I had my reasons, that had to do with the layout of the tank itself (inlets, outlet & drain).

After all the help from the folks here on this forum, especially Noel, and independent research, I have no doubt that my tank had a defective weld, since it failed in 8 months. However, since I am enclosing the tank into a pump house, I also have little doubt that I would be playing Russian Roulette if I get another SS tank, given the fact that I do have minerals in my water, especially iron and manganese. Even with good welds, it could fail from anywhere from 5-15 years down the road. Fifteen years would be great, but do I want risk having to tear out a wall in five years (or even in 8 months if I get another bad weld)? No.

The thing I hate most about the plastic tanks are the connections. I do not know who designed them, but the are just not convenient and require more turns in the pipes to get them connected right. The SS tanks with two inlets at the top, an outlet at the side and a drain at the bottom at 9 o'clock to the inlet, it is perfect. I need the two top inlets because I use a float switch to protect the pump in the event the community water supply cuts off and the tank draws down. I do NOT want two tanks. I do not need two tanks, so it only adds a level of complexity. Since my tank is house, UV is no concern.

Thus, I have decided to go with one of those dark blue plastic water tanks. They are available in larger formats that the "Sand Stone" type tanks, and they have places on the top that are reinforced whee extra perforations can be made. These tanks should last a lifetime if kept out of the sun. The "Sand Stone" type tanks are only 5mm thick and adding a perforation to one of those will not only void the warranty, but is asking for trouble.

I sure did like that SS tank in all respects. Damned shame they use shit steel, and have an unnecessary welded seam round the middle (too cheap to use the wider rolled stock).

Good service. I do not agree with your statement that they used "shit steel" if you need a metal tank what can stand every environment and medium stored in it, then choose platinum. Stainless is not corrosion free. Platinum is.

Arjen.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The shop in Phitsanulok, Saoake, has over the top service. They are strictly a "can do" company. The workers are all smiles and happy, too, so I have to think they are treated well.

As for the SS tank, perhaps not “shit steel,” but certainly shit construction methods and quality control, which resulted in shit steel. It used shit construction by having a weld that could have been completely avoided with wider material, and they either failed to or did a defective job of pickling and passivation.

I am NOT complaining. Considering the fact that the tank will go into a closed building where replacing it will be a large problem, I am lucky that the SS tank was defective.

Chlorides are also hell on SS. Chlorine contamination can be a serious problem. My water has a slight amount amount of chlorides (16.6 MG/L), which contributes to the problem. Mixing chlorides and iron is also not good (my iron is 0.57MG/L). All in all, and given my ignorance at the time, a SS tank was a poor choice for my water.

Bottom line for TV members considering a SS water tank: You may want to have your water tested for iron and chlorides and educate yourself on stainless steel before purchasing. There is a lot more to it than I ever knew.

All good points, but one other solution is to filter water before it hits your tanks - then you get the triple benefit of cleaner water, no routine emptying & cleaning of tanks, and no corrosion