US judge rules NSA mass phone surveillance programme to be 'unconstitutional'

[NeverSure]

They may also say that giving information before a public hearing would have caused a national security issue. That one is pretty broad.

They have to claim that when testifying or they lose it by lying. Just like pleading the 5th. You have to do it before you make a statement, and then not make any statement. For those who aren't Americans, the 5th Amendment to the constitution is part of the first ten amendments lumped together and called The Bill of Rights. It protects citizens from the government.

The 5th is the right to not testify against yourself.

The 4th is at issue here. The right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and the need for the authorities to get a warrant from a judge while stating the place to be searched, and what it is they believe they will find. They have to be able to articulate to the judge why they have a good reason to believe (probable cause) that they will find this item in this place.

The judge got it right. If the supreme court agrees with the judge, people can sue for money damages if tapped. People can go to jail.

[sirineou]

Well, they aren't in jail because they haven't been charged. If they are charged, then they will have to be convicted. To convict them they will need evidence. Have you ever heard of plausible deniability?

The operative word in the phrase "Plausible deniability" is "plausible"

The Director of National Intelligence James R Clapper admitted he lied to Congress about the NSA Metadate collection program. He said the NSA had no such program .

There exist two possibilities,

One is that he did not know ,how plausible is that he did not know? at the very least , if he did not know. he is incompetent and needs to be fired .

Or he knowable mislead congress in which case he needs to be fired and then prosecuted.

watch the following video and tell me if he perjured him self or not.

Watch the body language, do you think he was covering something? Clap on Clap off, The Clapper!!!

[/media]http://youtu.be/T9ss2_0emOY[/media]

Edited December 17, 2013 by sirineou

[lomatopo]

Mr. Clapper did add the modifier "not wittingly", to his firm "no", when asked about domestic surveillance by Sen. Wyden...

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/12/16/131216fa_fact_lizza

Wyden leaned forward and read Alexander’s comment. Then he asked, “What I wanted to see is if you could give me a yes or no answer to the question ‘Does the N.S.A. collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?’ ”

Clapper slouched in his chair. He touched the fingertips of his right hand to his forehead and made a fist with his left hand.

“No, sir,” he said. He gave a quick shake of his head and looked down at the table.

“It does not?” Wyden asked, with exaggerated surprise.

“Not wittingly,” Clapper replied. He started scratching his forehead and looked away from Wyden. “There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly.”

Clearly Mr. Clapper is bad a poker given his obvious "tell".

HOW TO TELL WHEN THE N.S.A. IS LYING

If the National Security Agency says that it is not “intentionally” doing something—say, collecting records of the locations of Americans’ cell phones—then it is almost certainly taking that very action.

If it says it is doing so “incidentally,” it’s probably doing so on a large scale. If it adds that said effort does not “target” Americans or isn’t “directed” at them, that means it doesn’t believe those Americans—or Congress, or the courts—should mind, because the N.S.A. analyst who entered a search term or tapped into a mobile-network cable had first closed his eyes and thought about terrorists.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/12/how-to-tell-when-the-nsa-is-lying.html

"How to tell when the NSA is lying?" Umm, when their lips are moving.

THE DOMINO’S HYPOTHETICAL: JUDGE LEON VS. THE N.S.A.

“Suppose, for instance, that there is a person living in New York City who has a phone number that meets the RAS standard and is approved as a ‘seed,’ ” Judge Richard Leon writes in a broad opinion finding that the National Security Agency’s “telephony metadata” program is likely unconstitutional. An R.A.S. is a “reasonable, articulable suspicion” that someone might have something to do with terrorism; a seed is a search term, perhaps a telephone number, that the N.S.A. plugs into a database of hundreds of millions of phone records it has collected indiscriminately. “And suppose this person, who may or may not actually be associated with any terrorist organization, calls or receives calls from 100 unique numbers, as in my example. But now suppose that one of the numbers he calls is his neighborhood Domino’s Pizza shop,” Judge Leon continues:

The Court won’t hazard a guess as to how many different phone numbers might dial a given Domino’s Pizza outlet in New York City in a five-year period, but to take a page from the Government’s book of understatement, it’s “substantially larger” than the 100 in the second hop of my example, and would therefore most likely result in exponential growth in the scope of the query and lead to millions of records being captured by the third hop.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/12/the-dominos-hypothetical-judge-leon-vs-the-nsa.html

[sirineou]

Mr. Clapper did add the modifier "not wittingly", to his firm "no", when asked about domestic surveillance by Sen. Wyden...

Not wittingly?? 5555555555555555

He further explained

Hey, I don't know where they came from, my friend Vinny gave them to me, he said they must have fell of the back of a truck,he found them in the street, what's a man to do ? leave them there? for every one to see?we collected them to protect the american people, they really should be more careful with all their personal data, living it laying about like that! We should be thanked for collecting all this info and keeping it in a safe place for them.

[Credo]

I really don't think it matters much what the courts say. The NSA will continue to collect information. If they don't they will have another country do it and report anything suspicious to us, just like we do for them.

Once the National Security mantra is invoked, there isn't much that can be done.

The whole idea of privacy has to be re-thought. We have Google and Facebook. I find photos of people who I know don't want there picture on facebook, but it's there with a group of other people. There is very little privacy any more and most of it is being given up willingly.

[lomatopo]

Mr. Clapper did apologize for his "misleading" responses, and did follow-up with a letter to Sen. Wyden:

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/download/?id=285dc9e7-195a-4467-b0fe-caa857fc4e0d&download=1

There is a lot of pressure on Obama to sack DNI Clapper - i.e., pull his resignation letter out of the drawer; but that would only further acknowledge the illegal activities. But it may be time for Obama to show some fortitude, assuming he gets some from Santa this year?

[JeffreyWitty]

Has NSA ever cared all that much about trivial things like laws or constitution ?

ANSWER:

Before 9/11? Yes.

After 9/11? well....

[Scott]

Off-topic and inflammatory posts removed.

[Wat dee]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

That's right!

U want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....FOX News. Amen

[F430murci]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

That's right!

U want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....FOX News. Amen

Haha, I watch Fox News sometimes early in the morning because I find it extremely entertaining, on level with Ron Burgundy played by Will Ferrell.

In fact, I am watching at this moment and the three news casters are absolute idiots with combined IQs that may approach double digits when added together. Great entertainment, but God help you if you believe everything they say.