If you could start learning Thai from scratch...

[Ratsima]

So, yesterday I'm cycling in the boonies and stop for lunch. The proprietor of the restaurant asked me what I wanted.

I replied: "หมูทอดกระเทียม".

The proprietor gave me a puzzled look and said, "ข้าวผัด".

Well, no.

But, this is the story of my life with Thai. No one ever understands.

I keep trying, every single day, but make pretty much zero progress.

(And, yes, I eventually got my garlic fried pork, but it took many stabs and an especially tedious exchange clarifying that I wanted pork, not chicken.)

[Aforek]

If I knew what the problem was I could figure out how to fix it. When I hear spoken Thai I can't pick out any words at all. It's just an unintelligible buzz. When I listen to my wife talk to friends or family on the phone or in person I understand zero. But, if she repeats it to me in what she calls "Rosetta Stone Thai", I understand quite a bit. When watch the Thai TV news in the morning I don't understand anything the announcers say. Not a word. However, I can read some of the on screen text and usually understand the SMS messages posted at the bottom of the screen.

Can you understand this? Level 5 has 10 parts,she is really a great teacher.Also,would be nice if you post some video on youtube of you speaking thai(you don't have to show face ),just to see what's the problem,i'm sure someone would give you good advice.

Which level is required to undestand radio or tv 100% ? because this woman, I understand everything, but on news on tv or radio I must say sometimes I don't understand a word: they speak too fast or use words that I don't know yet

as for the woman on video, she articulates very well and she uses an everyday vocabulary but there is more to do to be fluent : are there other levels ?

[GotR1GHT]

So, yesterday I'm cycling in the boonies and stop for lunch. The proprietor of the restaurant asked me what I wanted.

I replied: "หมูทอดกระเทียม".

The proprietor gave me a puzzled look and said, "ข้าวผัด".

Well, no.

But, this is the story of my life with Thai. No one ever understands.

I keep trying, every single day, but make pretty much zero progress.

(And, yes, I eventually got my garlic fried pork, but it took many stabs and an especially tedious exchange clarifying that I wanted pork, not chicken.)

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

You can use http://vocaroo.com/ - online voice recorder. I would really like to hear how you talk,i don't get it how people can't understand.I'm sure you would get some good advices here.

[GotR1GHT]

If I knew what the problem was I could figure out how to fix it. When I hear spoken Thai I can't pick out any words at all. It's just an unintelligible buzz. When I listen to my wife talk to friends or family on the phone or in person I understand zero. But, if she repeats it to me in what she calls "Rosetta Stone Thai", I understand quite a bit. When watch the Thai TV news in the morning I don't understand anything the announcers say. Not a word. However, I can read some of the on screen text and usually understand the SMS messages posted at the bottom of the screen.

Can you understand this? Level 5 has 10 parts,she is really a great teacher.Also,would be nice if you post some video on youtube of you speaking thai(you don't have to show face ),just to see what's the problem,i'm sure someone would give you good advice.

Which level is required to undestand radio or tv 100% ? because this woman, I understand everything, but on news on tv or radio I must say sometimes I don't understand a word: they speak too fast or use words that I don't know yet

as for the woman on video, she articulates very well and she uses an everyday vocabulary but there is more to do to be fluent : are there other levels ?

I'm not sure but i've seen somewhere that vocabulary of about 5000-6000 words would be sufficent for some intermediate conversation thus maybe understanding tv/radio talks.

[Ratsima]

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

Here it is.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O79FAt2iVZ

BTW, what kind of media files can be uploaded? I tried m4a, m4v and mp4, but all were rejected.

[danphuket]

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

Here it is.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O79FAt2iVZ

BTW, what kind of media files can be uploaded? I tried m4a, m4v and mp4, but all were rejected.

That was perfect! Like a Thai. I don't understand why you have any problems with speaking. You got all the tone right.

[Ratsima]

That was perfect! Like a Thai. I don't understand why you have any problems with speaking. You got all the tone right.

Ha ha! First time I've ever heard that.

I wonder why I have such a hard time?

[GotR1GHT]

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

Here it is.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O79FAt2iVZ

BTW, what kind of media files can be uploaded? I tried m4a, m4v and mp4, but all were rejected.

I don't get it how people can't understand you,it was fairly decent and very understandable.

Edited January 8, 2014 by GotR1GHT

[Ajaan]

For example: The other day I was on a long bicycle ride. I stopped to buy water three times. Each time I asked for น้ำเปล่า in my best Thai. Each time the shopkeeper looked at me as if I'd asked for tickets to a Puccini opera.

So, after 17 years of on and off study and after living here for nine years, I can't even ask for a bottle of plain water.

It was time to give up.

I understand that your reasons for quitting are more complicated than just the water thing, but if it's any consolation Thais never seem to understand me when I ask for water. I've had my teacher practice with me, over and over again, to make sure I'm saying it right. Teacher says the accent, the tones, everything is spot on.

Order in restaurant. Ask for water. Waitress has no idea what I'm wanting.

Same in the shop.

Same everywhere.

It might be that they're just not expecting the foreigner to ask in Thai so their ears are tuned in. I don't know. But it's only for water. Everything else seems to be okay. Anyone else find this..?

I had the exact same problem (ordering water) in my first few years of speaking Thai. And this was even when I was standing in front of a vendor pointing to the bottles of water while saying it!

The problem is, those two words contain the tones for which, for whatever reason, the Thai ear tends to be relentlessly unforgiving (high tone on the first word, low tone on the second). You have to absolutely NAIL those tones, or you might as well be speaking Martian. I did eventually, and now I'm never thirsty, haha.

[NBD]

Interesting thread. Nearly 5 years in, with stops and starts, I'd say I'm something like "competent expat" level.

Tones would be nice, but as far as I can tell there's no way to learn them other than simply knowing them for each word, and training yourself to listen and use them when talking.

What I would actively push is learning to read Thai, which I was very half hearted abotu for the first few years thinking it beyond me. Once I started to read numberplates and sign posts etc it really wasn't that hard and improved my vocabulary and pronunciation immensely.

[dazzle]

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

Here it is.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O79FAt2iVZ

BTW, what kind of media files can be uploaded? I tried m4a, m4v and mp4, but all were rejected.

my girlfriend didn't understand either. When I said it she understood, and made these suggestions:

the word for garlic (กระเทียม) starts with a sound more like the 'g' in girl than the 'k' in kite. Also you might exaggerate the rising tone in muu (หมู) more, and make the vowel a little longer.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JlbYAHGmOz

Edited January 8, 2014 by dazzle

[dazzle]

One more suggestion. You should make a complete sentence - it helps the listener use context to understand. The easiest way would be to begin with: ขอ as in: ขอหมูทอดกระเทียม maybe you did this, I don't mean to be presumptuous!

Even better: "I would like to order fried garlic pork."

ผมอยากสั่งหมูทอดกระเทียม

[Ratsima]

my girlfriend didn't understand either. When I said it she understood, and made these suggestions:

the word for garlic (กระเทียม) starts with a sound more like the 'g' in girl than the 'k' in kite. Also you might exaggerate the rising tone in muu (หมู) more, and make the vowel a little longer.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JlbYAHGmOz

And herein lies the crux of the problem. I have no idea what the tone of any of those words is supposed to be. I have no idea what the tone of any Thai word is supposed to be. If I see a Thai word written down I can figure out the tone from the tone rules, but no information about tone is stored in my brain about any Thai word. Why? Because when I first started learning Thai nearly 18 years ago I made the stupid assumption that I could ignore tone and that listeners would understand based on context. How wrong I was.

And, yes, I often make a 'k' sound when I should be making more of a 'g' sound. Why? Because all of the texts from which I learned Thai used a 'k' to represent a 'ก'.

Yes, I have many regrets. Go back and read my first post in this thread.

At this point I just don't have the energy or the wherewithal to go back and learn the tone of every word and unlearn all the horrible pronunciation habits I have picked up over the years.

This is why I gave up.

Thanks to all for trying to help. It really is no use. Time to move on.

[Sirius1935]

There is some very good advice above. The only thing I would add is the "O" vowel sound in ทอด

sounds very American, not like any Thai I have heard. Unless they have been to America and are

speaking in English. Not O as you would pronounce Bob but O as in London. Softer and more rounded.

The advice above that I like is to make longer sentences. That gives the listener more time to attune his ear to your alien voice and to get the thread of what you are about to say.

Thais are not economical with words as we tend to be.

I can give a taxi driver direction from the airport to my house in Rangsit, Bangkok in seven words of Thai. If

my wife is with me she can achieve the same in about 4,000 words. So, the answer is, don't make it simple when, with a little bit of effort, you can make it really convoluted. Its the Thai way.

[Ratsima]

I do try to use longer sentences. I usually start out with a greeting to get the mode of the conversation in to Thai. If I'm asking for something specific I often preface it with: ไม่ทราบว่ามี....

But, none of this helps if you're pronouncing everything wrong.

Consider the following words: nine, white, glass, rice, news, old

For me, the Thai pronunciation is the same. Something like "khao". I have no idea as to the correct initial consonant, the tone or the vowel length. All the same to me.

In other words, hopeless.

[Sirius1935]

I do try to use longer sentences. I usually start out with a greeting to get the mode of the conversation in to Thai. If I'm asking for something specific I often preface it with: ไม่ทราบว่ามี....

But, none of this helps if you're pronouncing everything wrong.

Consider the following words: nine, white, glass, rice, news, old

For me, the Thai pronunciation is the same. Something like "khao". I have no idea as to the correct initial consonant, the tone or the vowel length. All the same to me.

In other words, hopeless.

I think that this short video sums up your struggle:

Watch to the end, which doesn't come until after the credits.

[Ratsima]

I think that this short video sums up your struggle:

Watch to the end, which doesn't come until after the credits.

That's pretty much it. All that time. All that effort. No satisfying result.

[dazzle]

Well, don't feel too bad. When I first came here I was 29 yrs old, in love with Thailand, and on fire to learn the language. During that time I met an English woman who spoke fluent Thai (probably not, but compared to me she did!) I started a conversation with her and told her of my enthusiasm to learn the language. Her reply:

"Forget it, learning Thai was a lot of work and a huge mistake. I feel like I spent a fortune to get a key to an empty room."

I stopped talking to her and went to my Thai lesson.

PS

[GotR1GHT]

my girlfriend didn't understand either. When I said it she understood, and made these suggestions:

the word for garlic (กระเทียม) starts with a sound more like the 'g' in girl than the 'k' in kite. Also you might exaggerate the rising tone in muu (หมู) more, and make the vowel a little longer.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JlbYAHGmOz

And herein lies the crux of the problem. I have no idea what the tone of any of those words is supposed to be. I have no idea what the tone of any Thai word is supposed to be. If I see a Thai word written down I can figure out the tone from the tone rules, but no information about tone is stored in my brain about any Thai word. Why? Because when I first started learning Thai nearly 18 years ago I made the stupid assumption that I could ignore tone and that listeners would understand based on context. How wrong I was.

And, yes, I often make a 'k' sound when I should be making more of a 'g' sound. Why? Because all of the texts from which I learned Thai used a 'k' to represent a 'ก'.

Yes, I have many regrets. Go back and read my first post in this thread.

At this point I just don't have the energy or the wherewithal to go back and learn the tone of every word and unlearn all the horrible pronunciation habits I have picked up over the years.

This is why I gave up.

Thanks to all for trying to help. It really is no use. Time to move on.

Similar to mine situation just i'm lucky because it took me 1 year not 18 years to discover i really need to learn tones,so i didn't lose much but still i had to start from bottom again.

[Ratsima]

Similar to mine situation just i'm lucky because it took me 1 year not 18 years to discover i really need to learn tones,so i didn't lose much but still i had to start from bottom again.

I hope you understand why I gave up. I figure that about 95% of the Thai I know is totally wrong. The most monumental screw up of my life. If I could erase from my brain everything I know about Thai and start over again, I would. That seems to be not possible.

The solution I've found for myself is to try to be happy and have a full life without knowing or using the Thai language. It's not easy, but certainly a lot easier than, at age 64, starting from scratch.

Thanks to all. I'm done with this thread.

[steveromagnino]

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

Here it is.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O79FAt2iVZ

BTW, what kind of media files can be uploaded? I tried m4a, m4v and mp4, but all were rejected.

I have zero problem understanding what you are saying.

It is easily clearer than 95% of the farang I have heard speak Thai; you seem to have a pretty reasonable understanding of the tones, Moo is actually a rising tone (you are using a high tone because you have cut the sound so short, it should be more like moooooooooo (rising) toooooord (falling) you are cutting it a bit short, G (gratium) not K (kratium, yes it is written kratium but said with a G) but that is still easy enough to understand.

The only thing I can guess is you don't have the context, I would not walk into a Thai restaurant and just say this. It would be like walking into McDonalds and blurting out "cock". With a little context, it would be quite understandable (despite my mispronounciation)

(wait for server)

hello can I take your order?

Hi, can I get a big cock?

you mean a coke large size?

yes

would you like fries with that?

no, just the coke.

etc etc

I can think of countless farang I work with who speak Thai far, far worse than this and they get understood, I can only guess it is perhaps who you are speaking to, and perhaps not wrapping enough context into the conversation, or it is some sort of alignment of the moons. Honestly, I have zero problem understanding you.

I know you have sort of given up, but at least when I first moved back here (I could speak a little Thai as a kid) I had an aunt who said the following things:

- speak slowly, it will help the person speaking to you to speak slowly

- if they don't understand, carefully say the same thing again, exactly the same

- there are many reasons why someone won't understand you, it doesn't mean you are saying it wrong, it may be they are partly deaf; they may be preoccupied with something else; they may just be a moron - don't assume it's because you are speaking gibberish

Anyhow, I really do think you are very very close, easily good enough, are you in Bangkok? Upcountry sure, people cannot even always understand a city accent, in Bangkok people should be understanding you with this level of pronounciation.

[danphuket]

A short summary of regrets:

• Didn't learn how to read and write from the beginning
• Didn't set the tones right from the start
• Didn't learn how to type
• Poor teaching

Have I missed anything else?

[GotR1GHT]

Similar to mine situation just i'm lucky because it took me 1 year not 18 years to discover i really need to learn tones,so i didn't lose much but still i had to start from bottom again.

I hope you understand why I gave up. I figure that about 95% of the Thai I know is totally wrong. The most monumental screw up of my life. If I could erase from my brain everything I know about Thai and start over again, I would. That seems to be not possible.

The solution I've found for myself is to try to be happy and have a full life without knowing or using the Thai language. It's not easy, but certainly a lot easier than, at age 64, starting from scratch.

Thanks to all. I'm done with this thread.

But let me tell you,based on mine experience,learning for 2nd time will be SO much easier because you'll already have vocabulary and meaning of the words so only thing what you have to do is setting the tone right.I have done this and it's much easier than you think

Edited January 9, 2014 by GotR1GHT

[GotR1GHT]

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

Here it is.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O79FAt2iVZ

BTW, what kind of media files can be uploaded? I tried m4a, m4v and mp4, but all were rejected.

I have zero problem understanding what you are saying.

It is easily clearer than 95% of the farang I have heard speak Thai; you seem to have a pretty reasonable understanding of the tones, Moo is actually a rising tone (you are using a high tone because you have cut the sound so short, it should be more like moooooooooo (rising) toooooord (falling) you are cutting it a bit short, G (gratium) not K (kratium, yes it is written kratium but said with a G) but that is still easy enough to understand.

The only thing I can guess is you don't have the context, I would not walk into a Thai restaurant and just say this. It would be like walking into McDonalds and blurting out "cock". With a little context, it would be quite understandable (despite my mispronounciation)

(wait for server)

hello can I take your order?

Hi, can I get a big cock?

you mean a coke large size?

yes

would you like fries with that?

no, just the coke.

etc etc

I can think of countless farang I work with who speak Thai far, far worse than this and they get understood, I can only guess it is perhaps who you are speaking to, and perhaps not wrapping enough context into the conversation, or it is some sort of alignment of the moons. Honestly, I have zero problem understanding you.

I know you have sort of given up, but at least when I first moved back here (I could speak a little Thai as a kid) I had an aunt who said the following things:

- speak slowly, it will help the person speaking to you to speak slowly

- if they don't understand, carefully say the same thing again, exactly the same

- there are many reasons why someone won't understand you, it doesn't mean you are saying it wrong, it may be they are partly deaf; they may be preoccupied with something else; they may just be a moron - don't assume it's because you are speaking gibberish

Anyhow, I really do think you are very very close, easily good enough, are you in Bangkok? Upcountry sure, people cannot even always understand a city accent, in Bangkok people should be understanding you with this level of pronounciation.

I agree basically with everything you said here especially "speak slowly" part

Edited January 9, 2014 by GotR1GHT

[GotR1GHT]

A short summary of regrets:

• Didn't learn how to read and write from the beginning
• Didn't set the tones right from the start
• Didn't learn how to type
• Poor teaching

Have I missed anything else?

I still don't know how to type/write. I'm focusing on vocabulary/tones,live conversations and reading. I think it would just take too much time from those things if i decide to start learning writing.

[Aforek]

A short summary of regrets:

• Didn't learn how to read and write from the beginning
• Didn't set the tones right from the start
• Didn't learn how to type
• Poor teaching

Have I missed anything else?

I still don't know how to type/write. I'm focusing on vocabulary/tones,live conversations and reading. I think it would just take too much time from those things if i decide to start learning writing.

me too; I can write/type if necessary and with the help of a dictionnary to check the spelling, Thai people understand what I write by hand , but I write like a child and they don't laught at me ; I have no motivation to write, in the future I won't have many occasions and reasons to write; I'm focusing more on speaking, listening and reading.

[Ratsima]

I had an aunt who said the following things:

- speak slowly, it will help the person speaking to you to speak slowly

- if they don't understand, carefully say the same thing again, exactly the same

Anyhow, I really do think you are very very close, easily good enough, are you in Bangkok? Upcountry sure, people cannot even always understand a city accent, in Bangkok people should be understanding you with this level of pronounciation.

I think your Aunt had some good advice. She probably understood more about cognition than she realized. I know I speak too quickly; perhaps in an attempt to sound more fluent.

When I repeat I usually try to say it in a different way. Maybe it is better to say the exact same thing, slowly and clearly.

BTW, I do always try to make sure there is some context to what I say. I'd never waltz into a restaurant and order food by simply blurting out the name of a dish. (Reminds me of a visit to the hardware store. I asked for ตาปู, but they didn't understand. I tried miming the action of a carpenter pounding a nail with a hammer. Still no luck. I found the nails on my own….)

Thanks for your insight and encouragement.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Ratsima

[Briggsy]

If I knew what the problem was I could figure out how to fix it. When I hear spoken Thai I can't pick out any words at all. It's just an unintelligible buzz. When I listen to my wife talk to friends or family on the phone or in person I understand zero. But, if she repeats it to me in what she calls "Rosetta Stone Thai", I understand quite a bit. When watch the Thai TV news in the morning I don't understand anything the announcers say. Not a word. However, I can read some of the on screen text and usually understand the SMS messages posted at the bottom of the screen.

Did you know in the villages, the village shop sells everything except water!!! This is because every house including the shop has a chiller gratik out the front with a cup and everyone justs helps themselves.

Maybe that was the problem but far more likely it was your pronunciation and lack of tone use.

It is true about the water though. Just come back from a motorcycle trip. I was in the back end of nowhere in Mukdahan, even though I thought I was still in Sakon Nakhon and you could not buy water in the villages for love nor money. You could buy coke, soy milk and all manner of sweetened products though.

[Briggsy]

A short summary of regrets:

• Didn't learn how to read and write from the beginning
• Didn't set the tones right from the start
• Didn't learn how to type
• Poor teaching

Have I missed anything else?

Perhaps a systematic vocab learning routine to cover a range of topics and registers to ensure some commonly used words are not overlooked.

[ranjan82]

Learning to hear the five tones and to recognize them are a great challenge with the Thai language.

The tones in Thai are extremely important, for example:- "kee maa" has a number of meanings depending on the tones used, some of the meanings possible are:- "Ride a Horse"; "Ride a Dog"; "Horse Sh!t" or "Dog Sh!t." And the linguistic landscape is littered with bomb shells like these.

I started to learn Thai at age 257and had no previous experience. I spent many hours (800 plus) just listening to spoken Thai and was not allowed to attempt speaking all that time. This is the system used at the A. U. A. school in Bangkok. "Ear training" or "learning to listen" is the key.

Thai learn very much faster than those of us with no previous exposure to Thai.

if any one in need try these web sites:

www[DOT]auathai[DOT]com/

www[DOT]learningthai[DOT]com/

www[DOT]thai-language[DOT]com/