How to get high water pressure for showers

[simon43]

A common complaint about hotels all over the world is that the bathroom shower pressure was either inconsistent or a mere trickle.

Guests usually like to have a shower that can blast them through the wall, and the ability to scald them at the same time!

I'm slowly building yet another little hotel - well a B&B actually. this time, I want to provide the guest bathrooms with a good shower pressure and hot (not warm) water.

What's the best solution?

My supply of cold water comes from a well - no city water supply. The well water is clear and without smell, and this well never runs dry.

I have not yet installed any infrastructure for providing the shower water supply, so I'm open to suggestions.

1 - Build a water tower so that I can locate my holding tank at a suitable height such that gravity feed provides the suitable water flow rate. This solution has the advantage that the water supply will still flow when/if there is a power cut.

How high would the water tower need to be?

2 - High pressure shower pump.

Perhaps fed directly from the well? I have previously used a holding tank (1,500 liters) at ground level, with an on-demand pump. This works ok, but the water flow rate is not really that high.

I am toying with the idea of using a propane water heater to actually heat the water, because they seem to provide a faster heat rate when compared to the instantaneous electric water heaters that are typically used. Of coiurse, a high water flow rate means less time for the water heater to actually heat up thewater passing rapidly throuigh it...

I'm open to suggestions

Simon

[Naam]

Build a water tower so that I can locate my holding tank at a suitable height such that gravity feed provides the suitable water flow rate. This solution has the advantage that the water supply will still flow when/if there is a power cut.

How high would the water tower need to be?

minimum pressure requirement for a comfortable shower is 2 bar (~29 pounds/inch²), flow rate should be min 6 liters/minute.

water tower height to provide above-mentioned pressure is 20 meters = forget about it! get a 200L pressure tank and a cheap chinese made pump (1hp ~ 2.900 Baht). forget any advice such as "buy the Rolls Royce of pumps for a mere 5-8 times that price!" after more than 7 years i replace an irrigation pump (Made in China) because it was slightly leaking. new solid (Made in China) pump 2hp (~1.5kWh) 3,800 Baht. planning to replace both my crappy Mitsubishi pumps (house water supply) costing a fancy 13,000 Baht each plus a fortune in replacement parts with pumps as mentioned before.

the same applies to pressure tanks which are sold in Thailand as "stainless steel". buy a solid and coated steel tank.

flow rate is determined by pipe diameter and pump capacity. how many beds maximum?

[Mike45]

Naam what is the brand name of your made in China pump?

Does anyone remember that at one time made in Japan was a bad thing?

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Crossy]

We've had good service from several LuckyPro pumps, cheap, made in Thailand I believe.

We have control switches with no pressure tank, although it means the pump starts whenever you open a tap you don't get the pressure pulsing like you do with a pressure tank setup.

Something like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151015-Home-Shower-Water-Pump-Electronic-Adjustable-Pressure-Control-Switch-/290958923190?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item43be80d5b6

The combination has been more reliable than our Grundfos pump, which stops regularly with ants in the pressure switch, it its rather quieter mind.

[Mike45]

Crossy

That's a very interesting device. Where do you mount yours... directly on the pump? What do you use for a flexible pipe as shown in the installation guide after the unit? So this unit completely eliminates the need for a pressurized bladder type tank like Naam suggests?

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mike45]

What size pump do you need to supply the 10 bar cutoff pressures?

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Crossy]

Ours is sat directly on the pump, didn't use the flexi, the PVC absorbs the pump vibration OK.

Pump size doesn't matter as, if I'm understanding correctly, the pump starts when the pressure in the pipe goes below the 1.5 Bar start pressure, the pump then runs until the flow stops (min flow is about 0.6 l/min), no relationship to the pipe pressure.

Also has run-dry protection.

10 Bar is the maximum working pressure after which it explodes or something.

We're using a 1.5" 1000W Luckypro driving our garden watering system, pump max head is 30m (3 Bar) so nowhere near the max of the switch.

[reflectionx]

Build a water tower so that I can locate my holding tank at a suitable height such that gravity feed provides the suitable water flow rate. This solution has the advantage that the water supply will still flow when/if there is a power cut. How high would the water tower need to be?

minimum pressure requirement for a comfortable shower is 2 bar (~29 pounds/inch²), flow rate should be min 6 liters/minute. water tower height to provide above-mentioned pressure is 20 meters = forget about it! get a 200L pressure tank and a cheap chinese made pump (1hp ~ 2.900 Baht). forget any advice such as "buy the Rolls Royce of pumps for a mere 5-8 times that price!" after more than 7 years i replace an irrigation pump (Made in China) because it was slightly leaking. new solid (Made in China) pump 2hp (~1.5kWh) 3,800 Baht. planning to replace both my crappy Mitsubishi pumps (house water supply) costing a fancy 13,000 Baht each plus a fortune in replacement parts with pumps as mentioned before. the same applies to pressure tanks which are sold in Thailand as "stainless steel". buy a solid and coated steel tank. flow rate is determined by pipe diameter and pump capacity. how many beds maximum?

Build a water tower so that I can locate my holding tank at a suitable height such that gravity feed provides the suitable water flow rate. This solution has the advantage that the water supply will still flow when/if there is a power cut. How high would the water tower need to be?

minimum pressure requirement for a comfortable shower is 2 bar (~29 pounds/inch²), flow rate should be min 6 liters/minute. water tower height to provide above-mentioned pressure is 20 meters = forget about it! get a 200L pressure tank and a cheap chinese made pump (1hp ~ 2.900 Baht). forget any advice such as "buy the Rolls Royce of pumps for a mere 5-8 times that price!" after more than 7 years i replace an irrigation pump (Made in China) because it was slightly leaking. new solid (Made in China) pump 2hp (~1.5kWh) 3,800 Baht. planning to replace both my crappy Mitsubishi pumps (house water supply) costing a fancy 13,000 Baht each plus a fortune in replacement parts with pumps as mentioned before. the same applies to pressure tanks which are sold in Thailand as "stainless steel". buy a solid and coated steel tank. flow rate is determined by pipe diameter and pump capacity. how many beds maximum?

According to wifey, someone from the local tamboon (otomo???) installed water tower for free at her parents. This thing looks like a giant "t"ennis and for sure is 20+ meters.Sent via the app thingy

[Naam]

We've had good service from several LuckyPro pumps, cheap, made in Thailand I believe.

We have control switches with no pressure tank, although it means the pump starts whenever you open a tap you don't get the pressure pulsing like you do with a pressure tank setup.

L-151015-0.JPG

Something like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151015-Home-Shower-Water-Pump-Electronic-Adjustable-Pressure-Control-Switch-/290958923190?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item43be80d5b6

The combination has been more reliable than our Grundfos pump, which stops regularly with ants in the pressure switch, it its rather quieter mind.

never realised any pulsing with the pressure tank Crossy, au contraire.

[Crossy]

never realised any pulsing with the pressure tank Crossy, au contraire.

As you well know Naam:

There's always going to be a bit of hysteresis on a simple pressure switch. If the flow demanded is less than the pump can create at the stop pressure then it will stop and start on the switch, leading to changes in pressure. A big tank will even out these pulses but they're still there.

Of course, if your pump can't hit the cutoff pressure at the demanded flow it won't stop and thus no pulses, in which case it behaves like the device I posted.

[Naam]

Naam what is the brand name of your made in China pump?

Does anyone remember that at one time made in Japan was a bad thing?

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

just went to the pumphouse to check. it says "LINSNO" but i can't find the manufacturer with Google. that the pump is Chinese is just my assumption because of the price.

by the way, you are right pointing to "Made in Japan". technical forums are full with derogatory comments about "Made in China". and especially those who claim "would never buy any Chinese rubbish" are (in my view) ignorants. i fully agree that China produces a lot of rubbish but not all Chinese products are rubbish and quite a number of them have an excellent price/value ratio.

[Naam]

never realised any pulsing with the pressure tank Crossy, au contraire.

As you well know Naam:

There's always going to be a bit of hysteresis on a simple pressure switch. If the flow demanded is less than the pump can create at the stop pressure then it will stop and start on the switch, leading to changes in pressure. A big tank will even out these pulses but they're still there.

Of course, if your pump can't hit the cutoff pressure at the demanded flow it won't stop and thus no pulses, in which case it behaves like the device I posted.

it must be also depending on the pressure switch and the pump capacity Crossy. 30 years ago (when living in the African bush) our water was supplied by a 5m "high" tower making us run in circles under the shower to catch some drops. then i had the brilliant idea to install a pump and a (very simple) pressure switch. result was that we could step dance under the shower guided by the pulses.

silly me did not specify anything and my boys took the next best pump from our spare parts warehouse. when i checked i found it was a 3HP pump

"but master, we took the smallest pump!"

don't call me master!

"yes master!"

Edited December 22, 2013 by Naam

[Crossy]

silly me did not specify anything and my boys took the next best pump from our spare parts warehouse. when i checked i found it was a 3HP pump

3hp pump + shower head = pressure washer

[wayned]

silly me did not specify anything and my boys took the next best pump from our spare parts warehouse. when i checked i found it was a 3HP pump

3hp pump + shower head = pressure washer

Would have been an interesting reaction if it was hooked directly to a "bum gun" and you didn't test it first!