Police Extortion

[PhanganPirate]

I own a small restaurant on Koh Phangan. The local head of police has threatened to ruin my life unless I pay him a large sum of money for absolutely no reason, every month. I am not breaking the law, I am legal, my staff are legal and I pay my taxes. We are very very worried. Posting this message has taken enough courage. I accept paying reasonable 'tea money' as a part of thai business culture, but this is downright threatening and quite simply extortion. I know he's terrified of getting caught out because he won't come into my place of business for fear of being set up. He sends messengers and cronies. Apparantly, all his staff are in on it too. I know other businesses are being hit with the same demands. This nonsence only started a few months ago. Does anybody have any advice?

Thanks

[GuestHouse]

This is the first time I've ever read an account of anyone actually being hit on like this, lots of rumours of it happening to other people but I've never read a first hand account.

As for advice, I don't know what I'd do, as I plan to open my own business in Thailand as part of my early retirement plans I'm going to watch this post with interest.

[Gary A]

I think I would go directly to him and ask him what the deal is and if it is really him that is demanding payment. If it is really him I would ask him what's in it for you.

[bkkmadness]

I think I would go directly to him and ask him what the deal is and if it is really him that is demanding payment. If it is really him I would ask him what's in it for you.

I'd be checking out who's doing the extorting as well, sounds like it could just be some dude trying his luck and using the police's name to put the fear into you. Sounds a bit strange getting hit for more than the average tea money, especially on Phangan.

How do you know other businesses are being hit with the same demands?

How do you know he's terrified to come to your place of business to see you himself? That sounds strange too.

Perhaps SBK could shed some light on the situation she has lived there for a long time now.

[terdsak_12]

They're just trying it on, dig in your heels and see what happens.

[KhunMarco]

This is what I'd do:

Mini cassette-recorder are quite cheap

Once you have the guy's extorsion recorded let him know you have a copy in a safe in a bank.

Also let him know if something happens to you,your business or your family, the cassette will be delivered to someone interested....

Or you can sell and run away, your choice..

[organic]

Should this turn out to be genuine (as per bkk's post), there's a really good lawyer in Na Thon on Samui. Sorry, forgotten his name, you might try posting in the Samui forum. He's an ex-cop and very anti-corruption.

[davethailand]

I think I would go directly to him and ask him what the deal is and if it is really him that is demanding payment. If it is really him I would ask him what's in it for you.

I'd be checking out who's doing the extorting as well, sounds like it could just be some dude trying his luck and using the police's name to put the fear into you. Sounds a bit strange getting hit for more than the average tea money, especially on Phangan.

How do you know other businesses are being hit with the same demands?

How do you know he's terrified to come to your place of business to see you himself? That sounds strange too.

Perhaps SBK could shed some light on the situation she has lived there for a long time now.

I'd go along with this.

This is what I'd do:

Mini cassette-recorder are quite cheap

Once you have the guy's extorsion recorded let him know you have a copy in a safe in a bank.

Also let him know if something happens to you,your business or your family, the cassette will be delivered to someone interested....

Or you can sell and run away, your choice..

I would'nt advise this method.

[bkkmadness]

I wouldn't advise the mini casette either, you don't start playing hardball with someone you know nothing about especially when you are the newbie foreigner on his turf.

Maybe the guy will not care if you have the casette delivered to someone if you die, and then what will you do, apart from be dead. Or maybe he thinks your bluffing and flips out at you. Either way, its silly to play these dangerous games when more often than not a reasonable solution can be found.

I'd ask a mod to move this to the Phangan forum, you might get a little more local insight into the current tea money and police situation there.

[skippybangkok]

Tough on. As per my previous thread, the Tax department thought they found a mistake ( which ended up not to be one !! ) and tried the same stuff. Getting their weasles to call me. Had a great secretary who kept them at bay. When they insisted I come in person, I sent an accountant ( who was duly authorized according to the law ) to listen on my behalf.

This is slightly different, but what helped me was staying "un-reachable". They tried every bluff in the book including a threat of barring me from leaving the country.

The only thing that really works is having buddies higher than him ( which u only pull out when u need ).

Good luck.

[LaoPo]

Perhaps SBK could shed some light on the situation she has lived there for a long time now.

Agree. Maybe sbk's husband knows what to do; he's a native Phangan (as far as I know) Send her a PM. (she's a moderator here)

LaoPo

[PhanganPirate]

Tough on. As per my previous thread, the Tax department thought they found a mistake ( which ended up not to be one !! ) and tried the same stuff. Getting their weasles to call me. Had a great secretary who kept them at bay. When they insisted I come in person, I sent an accountant ( who was duly authorized according to the law ) to listen on my behalf.

This is slightly different, but what helped me was staying "un-reachable". They tried every bluff in the book including a threat of barring me from leaving the country.

The only thing that really works is having buddies higher than him ( which u only pull out when u need ).

Good luck.

The cops name is sarosat. And I know about the other foreigners because we all have Thai wives/gfs who like to get together and 'chat'. Also, this isn't a bluff because I've heard too many stories about this fellow to take it as a light hearted scam.

Thing abut Koh Phangan is that we're not really on the map yet. I know pretty much for certain that the local land officials actually paid to get posted here in order to extort cash out of locals/farangs tying to get land upgraded etc.

BTW, I have no intention of running away, I'm in my fifties, and have lived in this area for some years however I have never had anything like this happen to me before. I have even gone as far as writing a detailed letter, naming names, faces, transactions etc, bank statements - in fact everything I can think of, and mailing it back to my brother in Europe 'to be opened in the event of my unexplained death'.

I'd love to get this lawyers name on Samui. I'll copy and paste the original post into the Samui forum and see what happens.

Obviously, and with the best intentions of course, please don't go doing me any favors without me knowing else I (or my family)might get shot. Or worse.

These guys are not firiendly.

[KhunMarco]

A reasonable solution to an extortion? You gotta be kidding me!

Invite them to dinner to define the details and hope they'll tell you" smile you are on candid camera?"

Unfortunately there are many cases like this in my country and all the experts tell you that reasoning with these people is a never ending story of abuse and threats, if you want to choose that path...

We can't really say what you have to do, only you can have a sense of the situation.

What I meant is don't allow them to abuse you. Don't be paralyzed by fear.

The lawyer-cop in Samui seems a sensible solution for a consultation.

Anyway good luck and don't give up!

[LaoPo]

PhanganPirate:

I have sent you a PM.

LaoPo

[Digger]

I own a small restaurant on Koh Phangan. The local head of police has threatened to ruin my life unless I pay him a large sum of money for absolutely no reason, every month. I am not breaking the law, I am legal, my staff are legal and I pay my taxes. We are very very worried. Posting this message has taken enough courage. I accept paying reasonable 'tea money' as a part of thai business culture, but this is downright threatening and quite simply extortion. I know he's terrified of getting caught out because he won't come into my place of business for fear of being set up. He sends messengers and cronies. Apparantly, all his staff are in on it too. I know other businesses are being hit with the same demands. This nonsence only started a few months ago. Does anybody have any advice?

Thanks

You say your legal, so what is this guys angle - my experience in Thailand has shown me, that if you are fully legal, nobody comes near you. Do you have a work permit? Are you sitting in the restaurant you own? This might be his angle - something must have got his interest going. FYI, you may also consider how your business is owned.

Something similar but not quite the same happended to a friend of mine in Bangkok. His business was in the nightlife area however it was a legit business. One of his shareholders (in order to get to the 7 required) just happended to be one of the top Thai lawyers in Bangkok and was really nothing more than a highly paid nominee. Cleverly he chatted with the guy who suggested the monthly donation and showing him his company registration papers, said he needed to talk to all the other shareholders in order to get their agreement - very cleverly done, not threatening the guy or saying he knew mr big - he just showed him the shareholder list - the guy looked down the list and came to a name he knew of and said, oh Khun so and so is part of this business, Oh thats ok then, nothing more needs to be worried about. He never heard anymore from this guy again on this matter but he does actually pop in every now and again for a drink and funny enough - always pays his own bill.

Edited May 14, 2006 by Digger

[highdiver]

I am sorry to hear about you situation.

there are however a "thai" solution to this problem.

First of all inform your embessy of the situation. they dont need to take actions but make sure they are aware of that.

If you are legal then you have a lawyer who set up your comapny etc....

Ask your lawyer to se up a meeting with him at the police station. he will not refuse a meeting if your lawyer asks for it.

This will present you as a "top man" that has a lawyer doing the talking on his behalf. when you do come to the police station, come well dressed the thai's have respect for people that look "highso".

Have your lawyer empehsize that you have full trust in the police and personally him and that you can not belive that some small time scammer is trying to make problems for you and by so ruin his reputation as head of police.

This would put him in a position that he will need to take action to stop the hassle if it his him or not.

as if the situation will not stop then he will loose face...

Your lawyer must inform him that your embessy is aware of the case, and they to have confidence that he can solve this issue.

The police in this area are very aware of the response taken once the embessy steps in. just look at what happened in samui.

If as you said there is a big group of you all with the same problem then all of you should come to the station each one with his own lawyer. the last thing the police need is a bunch of farrangs with lawyers coming into the station.

[marshbags]

It is a very difficult situation and you need to go slowly and not do anything to upset him /them

until you find out the full implications.

Apart from the fact that this does happen all the time and is still a part of life in the land of smiles, and accepted in many places.

Do you by any chance know anyone of influence locally that you could name drop in a casual way.

In any case you could always hint that you know a certain person of some standing / name dropping

( obviously someone who is anti graft )

It may put him off and get him / them to rethink and retreat.

Also as suggested see if you can confirm in some way if he is genuine and not a con artist using false I.D. ect.

If you know someone in the forces or in a high place make discreet enquiries. ( discreet )

If it,s all genuine you have to either come to a suitable arrangement with him or shut up shop.

It,s not worth putting your business under stress and possibly risking your families welfare and your own of course.

Sorry to hear this is still happening and wish you a positive solution.

The thing is i know it goes against the grain but making waves by doing the right thing can be both dangerous and magnify matters.

Is it worth it by being a possible dead hero ???????

marshbags

Edited May 14, 2006 by marshbags

[highdiver]

Just remembered....

a friend told me about this a few months ago with a similler case up north.

if it is realy him as you said and you are 100% sure its him... then you can use the following to keep him very buisy. and when he is buisy he has no time to hassle you or your friends.

go to www.jaray.police.go.th

the thai police internal investigations... they will love hearing a bout a corrupt police chief.

use the complaint form using a bogus name and a hotmail e mail and write a compalint explaining the extortion racket on the island. and how much is the going rate per month.

make sure to point out that many farrangs are being extorted and that it is a very serious situation.

make sure to make it very clear that you can not reveal yourself in person as you are a farrang and you are very scared for your life.

have some oher friends write them a similer complaint.

The Thai police in general takes very seriously written complaints.

After 2 - 3 letters they will take action. the boys in Bangkok have no true affection for the chiefs in the south.

Normally he will be investigated and if they find evidence then they will press charges. if however they can not find evidence but still have a sense that something is wrong then he will be transfered from his position. in both cases it will get him of you backs

please do this only if you are 100% sure that it is him. The last thing you want is to ruin a man's life if he does not turlly deserve this.

[organic]

I'd love to get this lawyers name on Samui. I'll copy and paste the original post into the Samui forum and see what happens.

Suthep, iirc, he has an office near the garage just along from the police station. Sorry, it's been a while since I lived there, but any ex-pat on Samui that has their head screwed on will know of him.

[sbk]

Yes, Suthep is his name and alot of the expats who are here legally use him.

This is the first I have ever heard of this, and we are involved in two businesses on the island (partners with a farang in one, our own small bungalows the other).

I am currently out of the country but I know my husband told me that Immigration and the Tax dept were on the island a few weeks ago cracking down on illegally working farangs, and businesses that haven't paid their taxes. Our partnership is totally legal, our farang partner has a legal work permit, we pay our taxes and he has not reported any such problems.

I have never heard of such a thing, not from our partner nor from my husband from people running such businesses as restaurants etc. However, if you are running a girlie bar then it is par for the course to pay off the police to not raid your business. All businesses that are bending the law pay this, if they want to stay open that is.

[sbk]

Just remembered....

a friend told me about this a few months ago with a similler case up north.

if it is realy him as you said and you are 100% sure its him... then you can use the following to keep him very buisy. and when he is buisy he has no time to hassle you or your friends.

go to www.jaray.police.go.th

the thai police internal investigations... they will love hearing a bout a corrupt police chief.

use the complaint form using a bogus name and a hotmail e mail and write a compalint explaining the extortion racket on the island. and how much is the going rate per month.

make sure to point out that many farrangs are being extorted and that it is a very serious situation.

make sure to make it very clear that you can not reveal yourself in person as you are a farrang and you are very scared for your life.

have some oher friends write them a similer complaint.

The Thai police in general takes very seriously written complaints.

After 2 - 3 letters they will take action. the boys in Bangkok have no true affection for the chiefs in the south.

Normally he will be investigated and if they find evidence then they will press charges. if however they can not find evidence but still have a sense that something is wrong then he will be transfered from his position. in both cases it will get him of you backs

please do this only if you are 100% sure that it is him. The last thing you want is to ruin a man's life if he does not turlly deserve this.

This is absolutely correct highdiver, they do take these complaints seriously. However, you have made a very good point, this man's life will be ruined if you are not 100% sure he is the one behind it. Also, per my earlier post, if you are running your business illegally or running a dodgy business then you can expect regular visits from the MIB. Complain all you want but then you will just get the boys in Bangkok to come down and they won't be so kind as to only extort money.

[bkkmadness]

Looks like contacting the man Suthep is the best way to go. Great to hear theres someone like that out there protecting farang business ventures on the island. Good luck to the OP, do let us know the outcome.

[LaoPo]

I have never heard of such a thing, not from our partner nor from my husband from people running such businesses as restaurants etc. However, if you are running a girlie bar then it is par for the course to pay off the police to not raid your business. All businesses that are bending the law pay this, if they want to stay open that is.

You have more knowledge/experience on Phangan than a lot of others, including myself, but it doesn't imply that extortion would not exist, sbk.

The OP has a small restaurant (so he claims) and why would he post something like this? He sounds serious to me...but of course nobody knows if there is some history....who knows?

Maybe there is somebody who is using the power of the Police' man's name....?

Only the OP can clarify this.

LaoPo

[sbk]

Well, let me put it this way laopo, in all the years that we have had our bungalow business and before that restaurant, we have never, and I repeat never paid tea money nor had anyone from the police come to extort money.

I didn't say it didn't happen, just that this is the first I have heard of it. I have quite a few friends who have businesses in town and they have never mentioned such a thing to me. If you'd like, I'd be happy to contact one of them and get his opinion.

That said, I also pointed out that if you are running a girlie bar (and yes, he did say small restaurant, I know) then the police do come and ask for money. According to what I know, if you do not have a bar, stay open late or have girls then no such payment is required. How do I know this? Because my husband's cousin collects the money from the bars/karoake bars/girlie bars in our area. He does not hit up small restaurants that are not in that list.

As I said and I think someone else said, he had better be absolutely certain this is really coming from the police and not from someone who is pretending to be the police before filing a complaint with the police website. However, if he is absolutely certain, then this is what I would do.

[LaoPo]

Sbk, in what kind of 'function' does this cousin collect, or is that too private? And why would these outlets, like you describe, have to pay? Because they're kind of illegal? (closing times etc...?)

Let's wait what the OP has to say tomorrow about his 'problem'.

LaoPo

[sbk]

Its not in any official capacity, lets say. And yes, the police only target those businesses that are running slightly illegally, ie open past closing times, having girls, karaoke. You get the picture.

As the OP hasn't responded even tho he has been online, perhaps this is not such a big problem after all

[Malice in Wonderland]

I'd love to get this lawyers name on Samui. I'll copy and paste the original post into the Samui forum and see what happens.

Suthep, iirc, he has an office near the garage just along from the police station. Sorry, it's been a while since I lived there, but any ex-pat on Samui that has their head screwed on will know of him.

Suthep has since moved to larger premises in Maenam.Driving from Bophut go right through Maenam and you'll find him on the left hand side in a large dark grey 3 storey building (S.Samui Business Co.) with a woodyard opposite.The office phone number is : 077 420485

I hope he can resolve this issue for you,he's been very helpful to me and my colleagues for years now...Good luck!!

[John 1]

Yes go to Suthep if you have a pocket full of money, that's how he has moved from a one room shop in Nathon to a huge building in Maenam, he is a lawyer and maybe still a part time police man, nothing else. can he solve your problem?

[sbk]

Interesting the OP has still not responded.

Talked to my husband about this, don't worry he's discreet, and he said that he would be very very surprised if this were really coming from the Chief of Police for the island. This is not a lowly position and it seems strange to him that he would jeopardize his job for the few measly baht he could extort from small business owners. He said that the OP had better be absolutely sure that its coming from the real police and not just someone pretending to be police.

Also, he said the OP had best contact the lawyer who did his WP for him.

IF this story is true then both of us feel there must be more to it than the OP has posted. Remember, my husband is a native and is fairly well plugged into not only the local community but also the expat community and he has never heard of anything like this before coming from a legitimate small business owner.

[Prasert]

Are you sure he's been online? I sent a PM with some advice to him, but he hasn't read that one yet.

If this extorter would indeed be someone pretending to be the chief of police, visiting (with a lawyer) the real police man could even turn out to be helpful: his problem would then also be the police man's problem - this guy is harming his reputation.