Yingluck presents 'road map' for national reform, rivals unconvinced

[Thailand]

From the BBC

"

Defense spokesman Col Thanatip Sawangsaeng said the army "is ready to support the Election Commission in organising the elections when asked".

But a military source has told the BBC that privately the army believes it would be better for the election to be delayed - as sought by the opposition parties."

Privately the military are getting involved even more?

How are they getting involved?

It was a question based on an unknown military source talking to the BBC hence the clue-?

But they would have no involvement in Thai Politics would they?

You said they "are getting involved even more". How are they getting more involved?

Do you get that from a "military source" commenting on what they think should happen?

Yes Edited December 22, 2013 by Thailand

[whybother]

You said they "are getting involved even more". How are they getting more involved?

Do you get that from a "military source" commenting on what they think should happen?

Yes

So ... again ... how are they getting more involved?

[khunsiam]

Thailand needs some reasonable, level headed people to be part of this reform process, Suthep and his bloodthirsty zombie sheep are the most unbalanced segment of Thai political society, they should be banned from any politcal contribution until they can calm down and behave like adults.

I have quite a few friends attending the current protests. They are not fans of Suthep, but want changes. And they are hardly bloodthirsty nor zombie sheep.

Ask your friends how they would feel if Thaksin took a bullet. Most Suthep supporters I have talked to (despite their good education) would celebrate. Sickening but true. Does this make them bloodthirsty ? Perhaps.

The only change they want is to get rid of Thaksin. It's not very sophisticated and its not a solution.

They have tried every trick in the book over the last 10 years without success, and now they are getting desperate and dangerous.

Ask some the family members of the young men from tak bai who suffocated to death if they would be sad if the paymaster took a bullet. You know the answer.

Same point in regard to the family members of innocent people, including children, who very shot on site during the paymasters war on drugs.

Yes, but Moonao's point is: would it be a solution?

Edited December 22, 2013 by khunsiam

[Thailand]

You said they "are getting involved even more". How are they getting more involved?

Do you get that from a "military source" commenting on what they think should happen?

Yes

So ... again ... how are they getting more involved?

If I told you I would have to kill you.

To clarify, the comment was a joke based on- oh never mind everybody knows! Well, most everybody WB.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Thailand

[khunsiam]

You said they "are getting involved even more". How are they getting more involved?

Do you get that from a "military source" commenting on what they think should happen?

Yes

So ... again ... how are they getting more involved?

privately

[craigt3365]

Before we get too far off topic, and run into dangerous ground, let's avoid discussion of violence towards anybody. It is against our forum rules.

And stick to the OP.

[newcomer71]

Thailand needs some reasonable, level headed people to be part of this reform process, Suthep and his bloodthirsty zombie sheep are the most unbalanced segment of Thai political society, they should be banned from any politcal contribution until they can calm down and behave like adults.

I have quite a few friends attending the current protests. They are not fans of Suthep, but want changes. And they are hardly bloodthirsty nor zombie sheep.

I guess Moonao was referring to leaders of protest and security/extremist thugs participating at protests. Sure the majority is just tired of the actual situation and protest in opportune way.

But the hatred, the strong words, the verbal violence and the absurd requests of Suthep, sure don't help the movement.

I myself, agree with the general motives of protests, but totally against Suthep's Inc. ways.

[bangkokheat]

every politician and every person in a position of trust should be held accountable for their actions, with threats of freezing accounts and jail term, there should always be transparency in their dealings.

If only it was that easy

[Thait Spot]

If there is to be a reform council it has to be 100% neutral. Looking at how the PTP strangled debate in the house proves that Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Quite but unfortunately neutrality is a very rare entity here as a result of the culture and ' what can I get out of this ' mentality.

Look how those MPs jumped ship last week to join PTP, an eye on the future and hopes of a reward for doing so.

I font think it could be facilitated by any politician. Neutrality can be found even if it takes Kofi Anand

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

Sorry but what can't speak can't lie, On past record over the two and a half years. CANNOT TRUST. no way ..... Please look at it this way if they managed your business would you trust them and be happy with the family in control of your bank account. OOOOHHHHH NNNOOooo

[khunsiam]

Thailand needs some reasonable, level headed people to be part of this reform process, Suthep and his bloodthirsty zombie sheep are the most unbalanced segment of Thai political society, they should be banned from any politcal contribution until they can calm down and behave like adults.

I have quite a few friends attending the current protests. They are not fans of Suthep, but want changes. And they are hardly bloodthirsty nor zombie sheep.

I guess Moonao was referring to leaders of protest and security/extremist thugs participating at protests. Sure the majority is just tired of the actual situation and protest in opportune way.

But the hatred, the strong words, the verbal violence and the absurd requests of Suthep, sure don't help the movement.

I myself, agree with the general motives of protests, but totally against Suthep's Inc. ways.

they want changes at any cost and play with fire.

[ginjag]

A further 2 years for self preservation sums it up, Give us 2 more years (we haven't got as much money as we intended to have)

[khunsiam]

A further 2 years for self preservation sums it up, Give us 2 more years (we haven't got as much money as we intended to have)

that's Surin's comment , the Democrazys' decision not to run the election isn't selfish and not intended for self preservation

[gabruce]

Thailand needs some reasonable, level headed people to be part of this reform process, Suthep and his bloodthirsty zombie sheep are the most unbalanced segment of Thai political society, they should be banned from any politcal contribution until they can calm down and behave like adults.

You might be on to something.

Perhaps everyone political should be banned from contribution. If there are no red shirts, red-shirt related, Pheu Thai, Democrat, PRDC, yellow ..... - then what's left are the people without an opinion. They should be able to agree on something.

[Halion]

Yinglucks rivals are sounding increasingly hysterical and desperate.

They have backed themselves into a corner and are willing to do a murder suicide as they go through their death throes.

Suthep only has hatred and a facist, undemocratic proposal, thats why most International observers and diplomats have come out in support of Yinglucks direction.

You really need to get out more. If anyone is sounding desperate it is the PTP and their infantile leader. I am neither a Suthep nor a Shiniwatra fan but the current protests which are far removed from the fascism shown by the Red mob in 2010.only serves to underline that many in Thailand have simply had enough of the corruption, lies ,deceit and malfeasance which is a staple diet served by the current government. Furthermore Yingluck does not have a direction for these foreign observers and diplomats to support. She never had and she never will. Just more PTP rhetoric and bullshit in a dying attempt to save her and her family's privilege and place in this Oligarchical regime that they have created for their own benefit.

Significant reforms are needed to put this country on a path to future development and the current government have neither the intellect, interest or ability to achieve anything close to acceptable governance

[tim armstrong]

I think politicians the world over must have a 'book of useful promises' that they grab phrases from, when they're cornered. Like - 'we'll have a road map,' we'll form an all party committee', 'we must consult all sectors, 'we'll establish a reform proposal', ' the consultative process is ongoing.'

and of course - 'we'll listen and consult, - after we have already made a decision'.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed

[unanimosity]

i think all political parties should be dissolved before the election

candidates should be presented on their own merits

they should not be able to declare an affiliation to any political party past or present

no colours of any party's can be displayed

all should wear just anonymous white shirts

voters will have to take an interest in the candidate then instead of just blindly voting for a person of colour

Hate to be repetitious but the solution to electoral systems--which are not corrupt but skewed due to economic imbalance just like in all countries, especially the USA--is to conscript politicians by a well-crafted lottery that truly represents the nation's population geographically, economically, and educationally. A single term limit for two years would apply and career politics would be put to rest for good. There would be no more contact by lobbyists with politicians directly, they would lobby in an open forum to all conscripted representatives via web sites that the public could view as well. Agendas would have to advance on merit alone, not special interest. The conscripted politicians would receive better than average pay for their two year term and their employers would have to hire them back or compensate them for not doing so upon completion of their terms. A permanent pool of government employees with administrative specialties would remain in place to support the newly conscripted representatives with everything from secretarial duties to legal and procedural experts to assist in legislative matters. It's not really rocket science just common sense that would eliminate political parties and give citizens true representation equal to the corporations and elite. You might actually see patriotic and united countries again.

[Alwyn]

From the BBC

"

Defense spokesman Col Thanatip Sawangsaeng said the army "is ready to support the Election Commission in organising the elections when asked".

But a military source has told the BBC that privately the army believes it would be better for the election to be delayed - as sought by the opposition parties."

Privately the military are getting involved even more?

How are they getting involved?

by making policitical statements - even if only opinions - to World media? Military is there to protect the country from foreign threats/enemies and should be totally neutral regarding politics, it's none of their business - they work for the King not any particular political party. If the military were totally neutral they would not be making supportive statements would they? That's how they're getting involved.

[tomacht8]

Among many other necessary measures, the parties should initially restricted to a few key points, as reforms need time.

They must change first the system of distribution of money and become more transparent.

It does not matter who wins the election or who has the majority.

What must be avoided is, that the winner gets the entire state budget and can do with it what he wants.

Perhaps all parties should agree in advance that the state budget must be divided by provinces,

taking into account how many people living in each tschang wat.

A percentage distribution of the state budget for an election period might be a solution

So the minority do not go out empty-handed.

It can not be that 51% get all and 49% get nothing.

Unequal distribution and corruption are the two core problems in this country.

http://web.nso.go.th/

[Nibbles48]

Yinglucks rivals are sounding increasingly hysterical and desperate.

They have backed themselves into a corner and are willing to do a murder suicide as they go through their death throes.

Suthep only has hatred and a facist, undemocratic proposal, thats why most International observers and diplomats have come out in support of Yinglucks direction.

What you clearly don't understand is that it is YL and the PTP who are in their death throes mate.

The PDRC and the Dems are actually getting stronger by the day. They have won almost every battle in this war, and they will win the end game.

Under Yingluck's plan, all parties would have to pledge that the new government holds power for only two years, to see through the national reform process. Its mandate would be the creation of the reform council to work side by side with the new government. The reform council would represent peoples from all walks of life - both at local and national level - along with those representing various professions.

That is almost a copy and paste of Suthep's words, that is the act of a dying establishment, backed into a corner.... is when they can't even come up with their own ideas.

As for 'fascist' and 'undemocratic'... you just summed up YL and PTP beautifully.

[bristolgeoff]

does big brother agree from dubai,in what she is doing now.or is still pulling strings from there

[Alwyn]

i think all political parties should be dissolved before the election

candidates should be presented on their own merits

they should not be able to declare an affiliation to any political party past or present

no colours of any party's can be displayed

all should wear just anonymous white shirts

voters will have to take an interest in the candidate then instead of just blindly voting for a person of colour

Hate to be repetitious but the solution to electoral systems--which are not corrupt but skewed due to economic imbalance just like in all countries, especially the USA--is to conscript politicians by a well-crafted lottery that truly represents the nation's population geographically, economically, and educationally. A single term limit for two years would apply and career politics would be put to rest for good. There would be no more contact by lobbyists with politicians directly, they would lobby in an open forum to all conscripted representatives via web sites that the public could view as well. Agendas would have to advance on merit alone, not special interest. The conscripted politicians would receive better than average pay for their two year term and their employers would have to hire them back or compensate them for not doing so upon completion of their terms. A permanent pool of government employees with administrative specialties would remain in place to support the newly conscripted representatives with everything from secretarial duties to legal and procedural experts to assist in legislative matters. It's not really rocket science just common sense that would eliminate political parties and give citizens true representation equal to the corporations and elite. You might actually see patriotic and united countries again.

So basically the 'conscripts' will be bought after two years? Who decides which candidates are entered into the lottery, by voting? If a "conscript" is outstanding in his job he has to either be replaced by a new-start after 2 years or sold on the job to stay another two years? And when the Dems are feeling they do not have have enough shout, everything starts again. Communism is probably not the answer

[ginjag]

From the BBC

"

Defense spokesman Col Thanatip Sawangsaeng said the army "is ready to support the Election Commission in organising the elections when asked".

But a military source has told the BBC that privately the army believes it would be better for the election to be delayed - as sought by the opposition parties."

Privately the military are getting involved even more?

How are they getting involved?

by making policitical statements - even if only opinions - to World media? Military is there to protect the country from foreign threats/enemies and should be totally neutral regarding politics, it's none of their business - they work for the King not any particular political party. If the military were totally neutral they would not be making supportive statements would they? That's how they're getting involved.

Your first half I agree with especially for HM. But it is their business if the BIB are useless to stop the unrest (same BKK years ago) and it gets to anarchy it has to get involved. Imagine the last time what happened before the army came in----MOB RULE granted people were killed from all sides, but how many more would have been killed if the army had not intervened ????? not in favour of the coup BUT not much other choice.

Had the police stopped the red mobilization massing down on BKK and they could control, non of that fiasco would have happened----I blame the police for most of that. Good at collecting money BAD at control.

[LuckyLew]

Everything has been laid quite clearly.

Yingluck has basically offered most of what was asked. It appears that by doing so it has thrown Suthep and his Dem sheep in to confusion and now veiled threats of violence from the deputy leader of the Dems, they are still relying on military intervention as the only way back in to power.

Reform is needed, Yingluck is offering it in what appears to be a very open way, it is obvious now that the Dems are that in name only,shame on them!

Do you really believe her? She is the leader of a gang of liars with herself possibly being the biggest one

PTP stands for Pardon Thaksin Please

[scorecard]

Thailand needs some reasonable, level headed people to be part of this reform process, Suthep and his bloodthirsty zombie sheep are the most unbalanced segment of Thai political society, they should be banned from any politcal contribution until they can calm down and behave like adults.

I have quite a few friends attending the current protests. They are not fans of Suthep, but want changes. And they are hardly bloodthirsty nor zombie sheep.

I guess Moonao was referring to leaders of protest and security/extremist thugs participating at protests. Sure the majority is just tired of the actual situation and protest in opportune way.

But the hatred, the strong words, the verbal violence and the absurd requests of Suthep, sure don't help the movement.

I myself, agree with the general motives of protests, but totally against Suthep's Inc. ways.

they want changes at any cost and play with fire.

The hatred, the strong words the verbal violence has some serious precedent in Thailand (and other countries) within the last few years and before. That doesn't make it OK but when you are the mob that created the most recent precedent don't be surprised, don't be outraged, don't cry foul when it bounces back at you.

IMHO many folks are very well aware that suthep has baggage (as do many politicians in Thailand, from all parties), some of his statements are not very productive, and he's not all that good at clear, consistent and focused communications, however there is a main thrust of reform, but the masses who are on the streets are prepared to push all of that aside for a while because he is leading the chance of strong real reform and change.

He clearly realizing that simple rallies and nice speeches and nothing more than that will never generate reform.

It's obvious that occupying gov't office, occupying police compounds and more was needed to get the fake pm to take notice and it seems to me that these actions are what has pushed ts ys to dissolve parliament and now pushed ts ys to talk more strongly about some form of reform council.

I hope the anti-gov't movement pushes even more, non violently, to ensure that reform happens (within a reasonable time) through a credible structure before any election.

Suthep and his followers know, without any doubt, that an election first will not generate a comprehensive unhindered reform process focused on the factors which will force real change.

Suthep has stated many times that he will not join any party / return to be a politician after the reforms are complete.

As another poster wrote: would you let the pt mob manage your personal business operations? The answer must be a resounding NO, for all sorts of serious and specific reasons. In that bundle would be that they cannot be trusted.

Example: Introduce legislation about reconciliation then on the third reading at 3 0'clock in the morning quietly change the wording to amnesty (including you know who) and try to railroad it through whilst everybody was sleeping. Further, the changes being a severe slap in the face and extreme disrespect for their red army.

Trust them? NO!

Edited December 22, 2013 by scorecard

[swifty5x5]

And remember if you win the election you have to do as (my brother says) I say.

[ginjag]

Yinglucks rivals are sounding increasingly hysterical and desperate.

They have backed themselves into a corner and are willing to do a murder suicide as they go through their death throes.

Suthep only has hatred and a facist, undemocratic proposal, thats why most International observers and diplomats have come out in support of Yinglucks direction.

What you clearly don't understand is that it is YL and the PTP who are in their death throes mate.

The PDRC and the Dems are actually getting stronger by the day. They have won almost every battle in this war, and they will win the end game.

Under Yingluck's plan, all parties would have to pledge that the new government holds power for only two years, to see through the national reform process. Its mandate would be the creation of the reform council to work side by side with the new government. The reform council would represent peoples from all walks of life - both at local and national level - along with those representing various professions.

That is almost a copy and paste of Suthep's words, that is the act of a dying establishment, backed into a corner.... is when they can't even come up with their own ideas.

As for 'fascist' and 'undemocratic'... you just summed up YL and PTP beautifully.

Nibbles. You are getting a little tiresome! Same mantra over and over again!

Still beyond me, that a poster from a democratic country(?), can support Benito Sutheppi, who himself is just a pawn to be sacrificed for the power of the real elite in Thailand!

As for winning the end game?? A "temporary" peoples council ? When are people going to get their voting-rights back? This century or next?

Have you asked your wife, if she is okay with losing her right to vote? Or have you convinced her, that it is a small sacrifice for the bigger case?

How come you, you didn't take the trip to Bangkok today, as a hardcore supporter of Il Duce, it is almost a holy duty as today is D-day (number 5 or 6?)

Don't you realise, that the people you blindly are putting your faith in, wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire??

Is not your MANTRA the same, fine you have your way and let the corruption get more out of hand and then the rating they already have they could become the world leaders.

What is making you believe in the present regime ??? what is your problem ??? I know it's your opinion -but my one that looks all pro DEMS is NOT, it is to get shut once and for all the S##T that is controlling, I don't care if king kong is in power as long as it is not corrupt and his family is not involved in the rape and pillage of Thailand.

[whybother]

From the BBC

"

Defense spokesman Col Thanatip Sawangsaeng said the army "is ready to support the Election Commission in organising the elections when asked".

But a military source has told the BBC that privately the army believes it would be better for the election to be delayed - as sought by the opposition parties."

Privately the military are getting involved even more?

How are they getting involved?

by making policitical statements - even if only opinions - to World media? Military is there to protect the country from foreign threats/enemies and should be totally neutral regarding politics, it's none of their business - they work for the King not any particular political party. If the military were totally neutral they would not be making supportive statements would they? That's how they're getting involved.

They're getting involved by a "military source" sharing an opinion????? Right ......

[Baerboxer]

i think all political parties should be dissolved before the election

candidates should be presented on their own merits

they should not be able to declare an affiliation to any political party past or present

no colours of any party's can be displayed

all should wear just anonymous white shirts

voters will have to take an interest in the candidate then instead of just blindly voting for a person of colour

Hate to be repetitious but the solution to electoral systems--which are not corrupt but skewed due to economic imbalance just like in all countries, especially the USA--is to conscript politicians by a well-crafted lottery that truly represents the nation's population geographically, economically, and educationally. A single term limit for two years would apply and career politics would be put to rest for good. There would be no more contact by lobbyists with politicians directly, they would lobby in an open forum to all conscripted representatives via web sites that the public could view as well. Agendas would have to advance on merit alone, not special interest. The conscripted politicians would receive better than average pay for their two year term and their employers would have to hire them back or compensate them for not doing so upon completion of their terms. A permanent pool of government employees with administrative specialties would remain in place to support the newly conscripted representatives with everything from secretarial duties to legal and procedural experts to assist in legislative matters. It's not really rocket science just common sense that would eliminate political parties and give citizens true representation equal to the corporations and elite. You might actually see patriotic and united countries again.

Would you suggest a worker's militia to replace the RTP as well Comrade?

Do you have any idea why no country in the world has or would adopt such a loony tunes idea?

Citizens - a true representation through a racially, educationally, demographically modified lottery.