Who is more corrupt?

[PJcm]

As a 30 year plus resident of this land I am dismayed by the ex patriots who believe the Thaksin regime is more corrupt than any other political party in Thailand. One thing Thaksin did with government money is he gave a large percentage of it to the common man. Previous governments gave it all to big business and their cronies. It is pitiful to listen to the Thaksin bashers, the military and the loyal opposition for their love of the country and its people. We live in a caste system long endured by the provincials. At the bottom of this caste system is the common man. The common man is where the masterminds of all nations spring from not from the privileged, the bulk intelligence is in the long line of the common man and working poor

It is not for the Oxford and public school (read private elite) educated to tell the common man what is best for them. Release the common man from the caste system so ingrained in society and you will see a country that will flourish, take off the shackles of poverty from the rural poor and you will see a boost in production and innovation.

Who is more corrupt? The common man or the politically privileged. Thaksin at least payed something to the common man the others have ignored him, and now you the ex patriots believe you know better; the arrogance and hubris is pittiful.

[Thailand]

Wrong forum.

[onthedarkside]

Moving to General

[Briggsy]

Another fool believing and propagating the myth that Thaksin Shinawatra came from a peasant Thai family.

[benalibina]

It doesnt matter who is in power....reds, yellows, pinks, purples etc.....it really doesnt matter in the nation of self.

When the univetable happens in the foreseeable future.....its gonna be chaos. This country is how it is, castesystem or not.

Only a righteouss independant and charismatic leader, unlike Thaksin although many perceive him this way, who has no vested business interests can bring a change to Thailand. T gave handouts to the poor but all with self in mind. He had his chance but faltered because of self and of a system led by people more powerful than him.

So, it doesnt matter.......

Have Yingluck and Silvio already met each other ?

Edited December 22, 2013 by benalibina

[ajahnlau]

Another fool believing and propagating the myth that Thaksin Shinawatra came from a peasant Thai family.

Read the op twice and don't know how you figure it says TS came from peasant stock.

[CharlieH]

Why concern yourslf in that which you can neither change nor influence, as an expat you have no vote.

It is also advisable, in my opinion, not to get involved in politics of a foriegn nation if you reside there.

Edited December 22, 2013 by CharlieH

[rayongchelsea]

Why concern yourslf in that which youcan neither change nor influence, as an expat you have no vote.

It is also advisable, in my opinion, not to get involved in politics of a foriegn nation.

I am in court because I reject the fact that corruption should just be readily accepted. I have a family here a daughter who will make her life here..I have been bullied, had racist comments made against me and will probably lose the case, but it's incremental..

People come on here saying how wonderful Thailand is blah blah blah..I don't but it's my home and has been for a very long time..you are right I have no vote but there are other ways..I don't believe foreigners should involve themselves in politics of another foreign nation but that doesn't preclude them from trying to do something in other ways..

I am a concerned parent surprisingly something I have in common with a lot of other parents mostly Thai.

[robblok]

Taksin is certainly the most corrupt of the lot and the most arrogant. His party has been in power most of the time, just compare the corruption sheet of before and now. An other hint is how his party wants to eliminate everything that checks them and how do want to do stuff outside of budget so they dont have the same accountability.

He is also the only one who is on the run and has more then a few other corruption cases waiting for him if he ever gets back. Now are the ones on the other side angels... no way this is Thailand. Most of them just stole less and kept a lower profile. To prove me wrong show me big corruption cases the size of Taksins and convictions. I would always select the other side as the lesser evil. The other governments however short they were in power did not lie and backtrack as much as this one.

Reading Thai news about the rice scam and the money that the governemt bank has or not has gives a clear indication of the lies, combine that with how they send senators back saying the vote will be the next day and then secretly vote anyway or how they let people vote that are not there show the complete contempt of procedure and law they have. So yes please give me the lesser evil.

Best we can hope for is that from all thiss chaos a stronger anti corruption agency rises up that really has no ties to any government and goes after ALL corrupt politicians.

[benalibina]

Why concern yourslf in that which youcan neither change nor influence, as an expat you have no vote.

It is also advisable, in my opinion, not to get involved in politics of a foriegn nation.

I am in court because I reject the fact that corruption should just be readily accepted. I have a family here a daughter who will make her life here..I have been bullied, had racist comments made against me and will probably lose the case, but it's incremental..

People come on here saying how wonderful Thailand is blah blah blah..I don't but it's my home and has been for a very long time..you are right I have no vote but there are other ways..I don't believe foreigners should involve themselves in politics of another foreign nation but that doesn't preclude them from trying to do something in other ways..

I am a concerned parent surprisingly something I have in common with a lot of other parents mostly Thai.

Good intentions...best of luck....you stand for something......can do no more than that..

[robblok]

Why concern yourslf in that which youcan neither change nor influence, as an expat you have no vote.

It is also advisable, in my opinion, not to get involved in politics of a foriegn nation.

I am in court because I reject the fact that corruption should just be readily accepted. I have a family here a daughter who will make her life here..I have been bullied, had racist comments made against me and will probably lose the case, but it's incremental..

People come on here saying how wonderful Thailand is blah blah blah..I don't but it's my home and has been for a very long time..you are right I have no vote but there are other ways..I don't believe foreigners should involve themselves in politics of another foreign nation but that doesn't preclude them from trying to do something in other ways..

I am a concerned parent surprisingly something I have in common with a lot of other parents mostly Thai.

The view of CharlieH, is usually the sexpat with no bindings to this countries view. I am not saying CharlyH is a sexpat just telling you who share his view. Parents with children of people with businesses who lived here long are interested in the future and politics. They just have different reasons for being interested.

[tim armstrong]

What's with the 'COMMON MAN' Doesn't that just perpetuate societal divisions, which really are much less obvious in Thailand than the UK or many western countries.

[rayongchelsea]

Why concern yourslf in that which youcan neither change nor influence, as an expat you have no vote.

It is also advisable, in my opinion, not to get involved in politics of a foriegn nation.

I am in court because I reject the fact that corruption should just be readily accepted. I have a family here a daughter who will make her life here..I have been bullied, had racist comments made against me and will probably lose the case, but it's incremental..

People come on here saying how wonderful Thailand is blah blah blah..I don't but it's my home and has been for a very long time..you are right I have no vote but there are other ways..I don't believe foreigners should involve themselves in politics of another foreign nation but that doesn't preclude them from trying to do something in other ways..

I am a concerned parent surprisingly something I have in common with a lot of other parents mostly Thai.

The view of CharlieH, is usually the sexpat with no bindings to this countries view. I am not saying CharlyH is a sexpat just telling you who share his view. Parents with children of people with businesses who lived here long are interested in the future and politics. They just have different reasons for being interested.

For a person who is retiring here or come just for the women,why should they need the hassle and so charlieH has a justifiable view point but it astonishes me that they just don't see that maybe for some Thailand is their home, one that has deteriorated beyond comprehension.

[robblok]

Why concern yourslf in that which youcan neither change nor influence, as an expat you have no vote.

It is also advisable, in my opinion, not to get involved in politics of a foriegn nation.

I am in court because I reject the fact that corruption should just be readily accepted. I have a family here a daughter who will make her life here..I have been bullied, had racist comments made against me and will probably lose the case, but it's incremental..

People come on here saying how wonderful Thailand is blah blah blah..I don't but it's my home and has been for a very long time..you are right I have no vote but there are other ways..I don't believe foreigners should involve themselves in politics of another foreign nation but that doesn't preclude them from trying to do something in other ways..

I am a concerned parent surprisingly something I have in common with a lot of other parents mostly Thai.

The view of CharlieH, is usually the sexpat with no bindings to this countries view. I am not saying CharlyH is a sexpat just telling you who share his view. Parents with children of people with businesses who lived here long are interested in the future and politics. They just have different reasons for being interested.

For a person who is retiring here or come just for the women,why should they need the hassle and so charlieH has a justifiable view point but it astonishes me that they just don't see that maybe for some Thailand is their home, one that has deteriorated beyond comprehension.

I am not saying its a unjustifiable viewpoint, totally normal for people who are here just for the woman or just don't see this as their home. Then why bother, its also not like the Thais make it easy for us (law wise) to see this as a home. The people holding this view usually don't have much things keeping them here. It may or may not be a smart strategy.

But if you have kids or a business and want your future to be here its different.

Different situations different viewpoints.

*again not saying charlieH is here for the woman he is a poster with a huge load of posts and I have no opinion about him at all.

[robblok]

A for how far it has deteriorated, i don't feel its that bad that the moment. No men in black and fighting the army and life fire at the moment. That was a whole different scenario last time.

Corruption is just getting out of hand and instead of waiting their turn to feed some of the yellows have decided to try to eradicate it wanting tough corruption laws as they don't see themselves returning to the feeding frenzy. I personally find it all a good thing that reform is talked about and if some tough anti corruption measures do take place with an organisation free of government interfearenc and checks and balances are restored. Then I am all the more happy.

I prefer a yellow government as they have shown themselves to be more fiscal adapt and such but a red government that is playing by the rules and less corrupt as this one is not a bad thing either if voted in. A red government doing the same crap and shady deals as before is not of course. So I hope that from all this chaos some good comes. But its far from the fighting in 2010... that was bad.

[CharlieH]

There is a difference in being "interested" and getting "involved" , I stated the latter, as resident here of 7 years, yes, I am interested and yes it concerns me as it can effect my status and future here, but I still maintain it is not a good idea to become "involved".

and just for the record I am not nor have ever been a "sexpat", a term I find offensive.

[robblok]

There is a difference in being "interested" and getting "involved" , I stated the latter, as resident here of 7 years, yes, I am interested and yes it concerns me as it can effect my status and future here, but I still maintain it is not a good idea to become "involved".

and just for the record I am not nor have ever been a "sexpat", a term I find offensive.

For the record, i did not classify you as one but say they often think like that i took great care to make that clear.

Involved as in protesting.. not a good idea.. involved as posting here on this forum.. why not.

According to one of my yellow friends there were almost no foreigners and she was surprised that some immigration offices put up notices that it could lead to deportation (when i told her)

[northernjohn]

Moderators please remove my last post. My machine was having it's own way with me.

This is what I meant to say.

Also after the army had an election and Thaksin was back in the driver seat corruption shot up only to be held in check by Abhist for three years using a government that was put together with some shady allies. After his departure the corruption continued to rise. It went down 2% for honesty. From 37% honest to 35% honest. Hardly a glowing recommendation for Thaksin. Also people forget that in the early 2000s the whole world was booming. Thaksin was just riding along.

These are figures from a reputable international organazation.

[worgeordie]

Thaksin did some good things when he first got power,like kicking the civil servents

up the arse,and instead of a week to get it done ,you could get it done same day,

then he realized with populist policies ,you could spend public tax payers money

to get the majority of votes without spending your own money to buy them,as had

been done in the past

Then he had total power to do just about anything he liked,power and greed took over

and he turned into a Megalomaniac,his mistakes were all HONEST ones !,according to

him,then when you place members of your clan into all areas of power,its then becoming

a virtual dictatorship,corruption here is way out of hand,the Fire engines,rotting on the

docks, a multi billion water treatment plant, unused,the building of the police stations,

your head just spins thinking about it all, and the sad thing is all this lost,wasted money

could have been put to good use,like hospitals,schools,new roads,etc etc.

regards worgeordie PS nothings going to change !

[Issangeorge]

I have been coming to Thailand for 28 years and following the politics for that long. In the early days before internet I would drive 45kms every week to get a copy of the Saturday Bangkok Post. I was living in Thailand during the 91 coup and the 92 slaughter, and then when I returned to my home country I read the Post everyday on the internet. I have now lived here for the past 10 years. During the past 28 years I have never seen anyone more corrupt than Thaksin and his cronies. From the beginning of the Thai Rak Thai Party, there was corruption, when Thaksin paid MPs from other parties to join his. Then he put his assets in his maid's and chauffeur's name to conceal them. It it was not for the vote of one dubious judge Thaksin would have been banned from office shortly after he became PM on corruption charges. So don't try to say that others are more corrupt than Thaksin. Sure he has helped the poor from Isaan more than any other PM, but that does not excuse his corruption. The middle-class of Bangkok are getting sick of paying for this corrupt government and thus the demonstrations. This protest seems like a true peoples movement. Unlike the Yellow Shirts that were mostly financed by the Manger Newspaper Group, and the Redshirt Protest that was financed by Thaksin, this protest seems to be financed by the people. On Friday during their protest march they raised around ฿8million in donations from fellow protesters and others. These protesters aren't being paid, on the contrary they are paying.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[txp158]

"We live in a caste system long endured by the provincials."

Who are the common and politically privileged? Back in early 2000, I remember seeing his son walking arm in arm with two Caucasian models wearing minimum cloth in front of a bar in Bangkok (with my own two eyes). Behind them there were like 10+ men following, probably plainclothes cops. Is this what you mean by living in a caste? Is this what a common man in Thailand does?

[rayongchelsea]

I have been coming to Thailand for 28 years and following the politics for that long. In the early days before internet I would drive 45kms every week to get a copy of the Saturday Bangkok Post. I was living in Thailand during the 91 coup and the 92 slaughter, and then when I returned to my home country I read the Post everyday on the internet. I have now lived here for the past 10 years. During the past 28 years I have never seen anyone more corrupt than Thaksin and his cronies. From the beginning of the Thai Rak Thai Party, there was corruption, when Thaksin paid MPs from other parties to join his. Then he put his assets in his maid's and chauffeur's name to conceal them. It it was not for the vote of one dubious judge Thaksin would have been banned from office shortly after he became PM on corruption charges. So don't try to say that others are more corrupt than Thaksin. Sure he has helped the poor from Isaan more than any other PM, but that does not excuse his corruption. The middle-class of Bangkok are getting sick of paying for this corrupt government and thus the demonstrations. This protest seems like a true peoples movement. Unlike the Yellow Shirts that were mostly financed by the Manger Newspaper Group, and the Redshirt Protest that was financed by Thaksin, this protest seems to be financed by the people. On Friday during their protest march they raised around ฿8million in donations from fellow protesters and others. These protesters aren't being paid, on the contrary they are paying. Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Totally agree.

92 was a shock to me, but so was hearing gun shots outside my condo on sukhumvit in 2010.

Surely something must change now, but I am not overly optimistic.

My daughters best friends family support the red shirts, they are extremely wealthy and you see their business everywhere you go.They despise the poor!!( even though they are from humble backgrounds)...it's not about the poor for them.

[kikoman]

I having lived in Thailand for over a decade, never thought very highly of Thaksin or his political machine the Democrats were given power without an election. Being from a rice growing village, Thaksin is held in very high esteem by the rice farmers of the village. When my university educated daughter posted on Facebook backing Yingluck, I decide to sit down with her to see why she felt that way , it became a family discussion and the underlining current was the word in the provinces was that the Democrats (Yellow shirts) wanted to terminate the 30 baht medical coverage, the big and small village loan program, and other programs that served 80% of the Thai poor and farming population.

Then part of the demonstrators demands were that populous policies be stopped, and that during the meeting to deal with corruption in the country, that populous program not be legislated. The Demonstrators do not want an election of any kind! Why? As the Democrats have not won a election for 20 years, well before Thaksin came onto the political scene, were only in power by having Thaksin party dissolved. They lost the elections after that, Now the Democratic stronghold of Bangkok are paralyzing the city and vow to torpedo the election.

Then I see so many of the expat population backing the rich and affluent of Thailand grab for political power, without the "Democratic process" of a free election, that they will lose, not only that but they are advocating taking away the right to vote from the poor and rural farmers. who are also Thai citizens.

This same senerio happened in my home country, the Republicans lost the national election, with their platform against "OBAMACARE health insurance" and held America hostage on an issue they oppose and lost an election over.

That type of politics was wrong in the home country and if wrong here! Democracy is all about the majority rules, Being against a free election, is a dictatorship!

I realized my family were right and the more I heard about the Demonstrators demand, the more appealing Yingluck looked.

For those that claim to be against corruption should check out the past of the Yellow shirt leadership, as where corruption was involved, they are no angels!

Cheers

Edited December 22, 2013 by kikoman

[Briggsy]

I having lived in Thailand for over a decade, never thought very highly of Thaksin or his political machine the Democrats were given power without an election. Being from a rice growing village, Thaksin is held in very high esteem by the rice farmers of the village.

There's that myth again. You just can't keep it down.

[kikoman]

I having lived in Thailand for over a decade, never thought very highly of Thaksin or his political machine the Democrats were given power without an election. Being from a rice growing village, Thaksin is held in very high esteem by the rice farmers of the village.

There's that myth again. You just can't keep it down.

That sentence refers to me Kikoman, I am from a rice growing village and I see that the villagers hold Thaksin to a very high esteem. The statement has nothing to do with where Thaksin is from!

I have lived in Thailand for over a decade., I being from a rice growing village.

Thaksin Family is one of the most affluent in Thailand.

Surely if you disagreed with something I actually posted, state what you disagree with, not a blanket miss-statement of what you assume I posted!

Cheers

Edited December 22, 2013 by kikoman

[rayongchelsea]

I have been coming to Thailand for 28 years and following the politics for that long. In the early days before internet I would drive 45kms every week to get a copy of the Saturday Bangkok Post. I was living in Thailand during the 91 coup and the 92 slaughter, and then when I returned to my home country I read the Post everyday on the internet. I have now lived here for the past 10 years. During the past 28 years I have never seen anyone more corrupt than Thaksin and his cronies. From the beginning of the Thai Rak Thai Party, there was corruption, when Thaksin paid MPs from other parties to join his. Then he put his assets in his maid's and chauffeur's name to conceal them. It it was not for the vote of one dubious judge Thaksin would have been banned from office shortly after he became PM on corruption charges. So don't try to say that others are more corrupt than Thaksin. Sure he has helped the poor from Isaan more than any other PM, but that does not excuse his corruption. The middle-class of Bangkok are getting sick of paying for this corrupt government and thus the demonstrations. This protest seems like a true peoples movement. Unlike the Yellow Shirts that were mostly financed by the Manger Newspaper Group, and the Redshirt Protest that was financed by Thaksin, this protest seems to be financed by the people. On Friday during their protest march they raised around ฿8million in donations from fellow protesters and others. These protesters aren't being paid, on the contrary they are paying. Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You really drove 45 km to buy a crap newspaper and still you have a very narrow minded look of youre suroundings after so many years sad very sad.And a few flaws in youre story also fella.

It was the only really good newspaper then. I read it religiously as did most foreigners at that time, their sports coverage was good .There was no cable..

[Issangeorge]

I have been coming to Thailand for 28 years and following the politics for that long. In the early days before internet I would drive 45kms every week to get a copy of the Saturday Bangkok Post. I was living in Thailand during the 91 coup and the 92 slaughter, and then when I returned to my home country I read the Post everyday on the internet. I have now lived here for the past 10 years. During the past 28 years I have never seen anyone more corrupt than Thaksin and his cronies. From the beginning of the Thai Rak Thai Party, there was corruption, when Thaksin paid MPs from other parties to join his. Then he put his assets in his maid's and chauffeur's name to conceal them. It it was not for the vote of one dubious judge Thaksin would have been banned from office shortly after he became PM on corruption charges. So don't try to say that others are more corrupt than Thaksin. Sure he has helped the poor from Isaan more than any other PM, but that does not excuse his corruption. The middle-class of Bangkok are getting sick of paying for this corrupt government and thus the demonstrations. This protest seems like a true peoples movement. Unlike the Yellow Shirts that were mostly financed by the Manger Newspaper Group, and the Redshirt Protest that was financed by Thaksin, this protest seems to be financed by the people. On Friday during their protest march they raised around ฿8million in donations from fellow protesters and others. These protesters aren't being paid, on the contrary they are paying. Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You really drove 45 km to buy a crap newspaper and still you have a very narrow minded look of youre suroundings after so many years sad very sad.And a few flaws in youre story also fella.

It was the only really good newspaper then. I read it religiously as did most foreigners at that time, their sports coverage was good .There was no cable..

I felt I posted a fair review of what has happened. At the time, back in the 80s, it was hard to get any info about Thailand and the Bangkok Post was the only English newspaper available. At least I made an effort to find out all I could about Thailand. If there are some faults in my story please point them out, I am by no means perfect, and am always trying to increase my knowledge.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Issangeorge]

Kikoman, after Thaksin started to buy MPs he lost my support. When he first formed the Thai Rak Thai Party I supported him. I was under the false impression that because he was already so rich he wouldn't be corrupt. I am still against him, but there is no way I can support the Democratic Party who are acting like a bunch of children and as far as Suthep goes he is just a joke, but the only person who is anti Thaksin right now, so the Bangkok middle class are following him. One thing I think your daughter got wrong, although it is hardly her fault, because it Is the misinformation the Red Shirts are spreading, but the Democratic Party support the ฿30 medical plan and at no time have said they would cancel it.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited December 22, 2013 by Issangeorge

[rayongchelsea]

I have been coming to Thailand for 28 years and following the politics for that long. In the early days before internet I would drive 45kms every week to get a copy of the Saturday Bangkok Post. I was living in Thailand during the 91 coup and the 92 slaughter, and then when I returned to my home country I read the Post everyday on the internet. I have now lived here for the past 10 years. During the past 28 years I have never seen anyone more corrupt than Thaksin and his cronies. From the beginning of the Thai Rak Thai Party, there was corruption, when Thaksin paid MPs from other parties to join his. Then he put his assets in his maid's and chauffeur's name to conceal them. It it was not for the vote of one dubious judge Thaksin would have been banned from office shortly after he became PM on corruption charges. So don't try to say that others are more corrupt than Thaksin. Sure he has helped the poor from Isaan more than any other PM, but that does not excuse his corruption. The middle-class of Bangkok are getting sick of paying for this corrupt government and thus the demonstrations. This protest seems like a true peoples movement. Unlike the Yellow Shirts that were mostly financed by the Manger Newspaper Group, and the Redshirt Protest that was financed by Thaksin, this protest seems to be financed by the people. On Friday during their protest march they raised around ฿8million in donations from fellow protesters and others. These protesters aren't being paid, on the contrary they are paying. Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You really drove 45 km to buy a crap newspaper and still you have a very narrow minded look of youre suroundings after so many years sad very sad.And a few flaws in youre story also fella.

It was the only really good newspaper then. I read it religiously as did most foreigners at that time, their sports coverage was good .There was no cable..

I felt I posted a fair review of what has happened. At the time, back in the 80s, it was hard to get any info about Thailand and the Bangkok Post was the only English newspaper available. At least I made an effort to find out all I could about Thailand. If there are some faults in my story please point them out, I am by no means perfect, and am always trying to increase my knowledge.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There is huge inequality here. The rich treat the poor badly.

There is a lot of sympathy for the red shirts objectives but they need to dis engage from taksin.

I'm with issangeorge in regards the first impression of taksin. The country was very depressed after the Asian crisis, chuan lekpai was a definition of inertia, taksin came across as a can do rich guy. He was what the country needed. Then he over reached himself, corruption became untenable.

He has totally miscalculated almost at every step..

I would also like to know the flaws in issangeorge post as I was here at the time..you must remember We hardly saw any farangs and I lived in a soi off Ekkamsi at the time? Information in English was very limited.

[PJcm]

Voltaire said "The problem with common sense is; it's not very common"

If history has taught us anything; it's that anything is possible.

Thaksin will be back he will receive a pardon or be granted amnesty. The scenario is far from over the yellow shirts will devolve and the country will go on as usual; but for this to happen there has to be a catalyst and that catalyst is waiting in the corner.