Anti-govt protesters rally across Thai capital

[MrSlatersParrot]

At the end of the day , it's a disastrous result for Suthep. Exactly how many final, absolute final, definitely final " d- days" have there been now. 8 or 9? And now the number of protesters goes down and falls well short of targets ( and their own ridiculous claims of actual numbers). So not satisfied with the people rejecting the suggestion that they remove the elected govt, he issues yet more threats, more deadlines....very tedious , odious man.

have another glass o' irish whisky father jack. You wouldnt know a disaster if it stared you in the face .Your Ms Shinawatra will find out about disasters

kingalfred burnt his kegs again

[MrSlatersParrot]

I' m pretty sure November 24th was to be the final day, with a million or two guarenteed to be on the streets, a month later we have 70,000 and his promise to hand himself in to face charges of insurrection and murder is looking a bit hollow

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/682446-suthep-declares-nov-24-demise-of-thaksin-regime/

You got to walk the walk

[MrSlatersParrot]

I' m pretty sure November 24th was to be the final day, with a million or two guarenteed to be on the streets, a month later we have 70,000 and his promise to hand himself in to face charges of insurrection and murder is looking a bit hollow

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/682446-suthep-declares-nov-24-demise-of-thaksin-regime/

Both you and I know, that posting on this thread is a complete waste of time!

The followers here of their new master are not open to an argument, because they have seen the light!

And on the third day he created the peoples council.

Sad to see so many expats (who in the eyes of many Thais are considered lower than a soidog) joining a movement where all the actors on the streets i Bangkok, including their leader are just pawns in a game, where the winners are the old power and money-elite.

Darkskinned and from the south, does Suthep really believe, that the amarts will allow him to have a say, when they don't need him anymore??

Keep on dreaming!!

To uote:

Sad to see so many expats (who in the eyes of many Thais are considered lower than a soidog)

Does anyone on these forums blend with Bangkok's aristocracy?

now you know how worthless you are

[blaze]

Not sure of the point you are trying to make.

Most Thais don't blend with the Amart.,

does that mean that they too are lower than soi dogs?

Perhaps you are suggesting that the only people entitled to participate in the decisions that count are Thai arisocracy.

If so - don't be shy. Say so.

Perhaps you are Thai- are you?

:You may6be don't know that in the west we too had aristocarices- for the most part disolute drugged up airheads--

And read history-- they were brought down.

And the societies moved on- leaving them in their monocoles and smoking jackets to mutter about their lawns-- a bit of croquet- while they begged special treatement from the - kept like old peackocks in a theme park.

it was the price of modernization- and much as modern sucks- the feudal sucks big time!

Some have suggested that aristoracies exemple meritocracy-

By virtue of birth and name you inheirit the right to exploit other people?

And yes, i do know a few old khunyings.= lovely people,. fans of Mozart and Elvis. Original Matisses mounted next to Velvet bullfighters.

No thanks.

no

Edited December 22, 2013 by blaze

[Nibbles48]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Thank you.

That was nourishing reading.

I largely agree with it, and I think most intelligent people would.

However, there is a force at work everywhere in the world that is driven by human nature and that can not be resisted, which has been proven for millenia, and despite all the horror stories of the past will always be the crux of why there will always be division in all societies no matter how much man attempts to resist it.

That force is 'tribalism'.

It is the main reason humans are incapable of learning from the mistakes of history.

I dont think that tribalism is the problem, its like the family a part of everybodys identity, and I love the diversity. "Divide et impera", the problem is the ruling class: Giving people a image of the enemy and they follow you. So we have different parties, but you can choose what you want, the result is nearly the same. But if people aware, it can help to make the world a better place. Money rules the world, but it dont make people happy, only if you share...

Sorry, I have to disagree with you there.

Trialism is the crux of the problem here, exactly the same as it has been with every form of human division in world history. That goes for all wars whether it be nation against nation, tribe against tribe or religion against religion, even family against family. It is what motivates man to turn against their fellow man.

This even controls something a simple as two groups of soccer fans wanting to beat each other to a pulp.

Some may say that religion is not tribal, it certainly is.... Anything that holds people into a certain group whether it is religious based or not is the tribal aspect of the human nature.

Tribalism is actually hard-wired into human beings. It is said that humans are 'social animals' who could not survive very well on their own, and this tribal instinct helps us stay committed to a group. This goes right back to the earliest hominids, where they were hunter gatherers and moved and hunted in groups. Although through thousands of years of development, humans now have the ability to survive on their own, however, the tribalist instincts that helped early man survive is still there hard wired into all of us.

A dog that once lived in the wild but now lives in your house or on the concrete outside your house will still walk around in circles before laying down to sleep. Ever noticed that? It is the instinct they used in the wild where they would tread down the grass and check for sharp stones etc... before laying down. They still do it now although no need for it.

It has been there in us all for millenia, deeply rooted and impossible to resist. Even those reading this who think they are totally independent thinkers etc.... You are still under the influence of tribalism, if you support a certain football team, if you cheer on a certain athlete in the Olympics, if you feel a pride to be part of a certain distinguished group or national identity... that is the little tribal demon inside you drawing you irresistibly like a magnet or a moth to a bulb.

The thing that helped us once survive in the earliest years of humans, is the very thing that is tearing us apart as humans today.

Whatever generates the tribalism is not the point, whether it be a ruling class influencing one set of people or a religion. The fact remains that with this handicap we all have, we are prone to being divided by nature itself, even to point of our own destruction and the destruction of others.

Look at the hatred that oozes from this very thread. Supposed intelligent people spewing vitriol and derision at each other, and even going as far as lying in an attempt to score points for their own 'group'. Tribalism as a base instinct at work.

[blaze]

OK- tribalism is a tough bitch.

Now what does that have to do with the rallies?

[Nibbles48]

Anyone saw today BangkokPost news?

It reported Jatuporn warned the millitary not to stage a coup as promised earlier.

"Maybe they think they can defeat the Thaksin regime by not competing in the election," he added.

Finally he admitted it's all about the Thaksin regime=TS dictatorship.

Yes, he certainly let the monkey out of the box with that comment.

[Nibbles48]

OK- tribalism is a tough bitch.

Now what does that have to do with the rallies?

Everything.

[JRSoul]

JHead and the BBC are an embarrassment, I agree. As for estimating the number at 150000, either the guy is blind or he never saw a football stadium.

I was curious, so I blew up the crowd photo from your post. I counted a section of the crowd to 100 people, then estimated (conservatively) 1000 people. I then.very conservatively tried to estimate the total from one photo.....try it.....you will be very hard pressed to get 100,000 people.

I'm not looking for an argument or anything....I just did a little experiment and thought others might give it a go..see what numbers others come up with, using the same system.

crowd.jpg

OK, <100k in that photo. But how many photos to cover the entire demonstration?

Given the disparity between PRBkk's observations and the pictures, I suspect the use of time lapse photography. In fact, there are only 6 protesters frantically running around to create the illusion of a massive crowd. This can be proved by a small app downloadable from the PTP website, and frequently used by the RTP.

[webfact]

please continue:

POLITICS
Bangkok overrun by huge protest
The Nation



Yingluck takes train from Udon to Nong Khai while mob rallies, including outside her home

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691211-bangkok-overrun-by-huge-protest/

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/Admin