Grounds for prosecution over Thai charter-change bill: NACC

[oneday]

What a joke. Bringing charges against a government body for trying to change their own laws, rules or constitution. That is their right and duty. It's up to the courts to decide if it is constitutional, not to file criminal charges against them. How utterly absurd the whole Thai government and courts are.

What a novel idea...let's have all of the senate elected. From Wiki:

"...composed of 150 members. 76 Senators are directly elected from the 75 Provinces of Thailand and Bangkok, while the other 74 are appointed from various sectors by the Senate Selection Committee.

...

The selection committee is made up of...

• President of the Constitutional Court
• Chairman of the Election Commission
• Chairman of the State Audit Commission
• A Judge in the Supreme Court of Justice holding office not lower in rank than Judge of the Supreme Court of Justice as entrusted by the general assembly of the Supreme Court of Justice.
• A Judge of the Supreme Administrative Court as entrusted by the general assembly of judges of the Supreme Administrative Court.

Humm...three of the five have something to do with courts. Now isn't that interesting. I wonder how much money comes their way for appointing senators? That's a lot to lose.

The constitutional court already ruled it illegal and they still proceeded with it.

So what. Still shouldn't be criminal charges filed. Their only job should be to rule on whether or not it is legal. Of course, I'm sure that's not what their mandate is in this country. What should be criminal is if they try to implement it after the courts rule it illlegal. Now that would be grounds for being prosecution. That would actually make sense.

[wprime]

What a joke. Bringing charges against a government body for trying to change their own laws, rules or constitution. That is their right and duty. It's up to the courts to decide if it is constitutional, not to file criminal charges against them. How utterly absurd the whole Thai government and courts are.

What a novel idea...let's have all of the senate elected. From Wiki:

"...composed of 150 members. 76 Senators are directly elected from the 75 Provinces of Thailand and Bangkok, while the other 74 are appointed from various sectors by the Senate Selection Committee.

...

The selection committee is made up of...http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=18&t=692118&qpid=7216982

• President of the Constitutional Court
• Chairman of the Election Commission
• Chairman of the State Audit Commission
• A Judge in the Supreme Court of Justice holding office not lower in rank than Judge of the Supreme Court of Justice as entrusted by the general assembly of the Supreme Court of Justice.
• A Judge of the Supreme Administrative Court as entrusted by the general assembly of judges of the Supreme Administrative Court.

Humm...three of the five have something to do with courts. Now isn't that interesting. I wonder how much money comes their way for appointing senators? That's a lot to lose.

The constitutional court already ruled it illegal and they still proceeded with it.

So what. Still shouldn't be criminal charges filed. Their only job should be to rule on whether or not it is legal. Of course, I'm sure that's not what their mandate is in this country. What should be criminal is if they try to implement it after the courts rule it illlegal. Now that would be grounds for being prosecution. That would actually make sense.

Correct, but they did try to implement it after the courts ruled it illegal which is why there are grounds for charges to be made.

Edited December 28, 2013 by wprime

[rametindallas]

Courts really not following the PT party line at present. Bet the DL is unhappy about that.

Since the courts often sway with the political winds, maybe they know something about the future power of the For Thaksin Party that we don't. It seems that the NAAC is also coming down against the current government. Maybe the political winds have truly shifted or this is a chance to put the 'squeeze' on Dr. Thaksin while he is vulnerable. I'm going to make some more popcorn.

[rametindallas]

What a joke. Bringing charges against a government body for trying to change their own laws, rules or constitution. That is their right and duty. It's up to the courts to decide if it is constitutional, not to file criminal charges against them. How utterly absurd the whole Thai government and courts are.

What a novel idea...let's have all of the senate elected. From Wiki:

"...composed of 150 members. 76 Senators are directly elected from the 75 Provinces of Thailand and Bangkok, while the other 74 are appointed from various sectors by the Senate Selection Committee.

...

The selection committee is made up of...

• President of the Constitutional Court
• Chairman of the Election Commission
• Chairman of the State Audit Commission
• A Judge in the Supreme Court of Justice holding office not lower in rank than Judge of the Supreme Court of Justice as entrusted by the general assembly of the Supreme Court of Justice.
• A Judge of the Supreme Administrative Court as entrusted by the general assembly of judges of the Supreme Administrative Court.

Humm...three of the five have something to do with courts. Now isn't that interesting. I wonder how much money comes their way for appointing senators? That's a lot to lose.

There's a pattern with Thaksin controlled governments following the letter of the law. Maybe it's the court's fault for letting Dr. Thaksin off the hook for hiding his assets with his maid and driver when he first was elected PM. My feeling is that it comes from a skewed definition of democracy i.e. 'we don't have to follow the law because we got a majority of the votes'.

If Dr. Thaksin had not cheated in the election he called in 2006 and got caught illegally paying smaller parties to contest constituencies the Democrats had boycotted, he would have served his full term and would probable still be in power. Just like, 'leopards don't change their spots' and 'once a junkie, always a junkie' are truisms. so is the fact that Dr. Thaksin can't play within the rules.

The For Thaksin Party has only itself to blame because they can't abide by the laws of the land.

[tomacht8]

Looks like if the army are not willing to step in, the constitutional court will instead.

This would be a better outcome, especially if they ban all the politicians and senators with this huge and lets face it schoolboy error of trying to scam their way through parliament on several occasions in a small amount of time in the most unconstitutional way possible. Then threaten to have the members of the constitutional court indicted just because someone had the balls to stand up to them.

I can see mass political bannings coming, and I can see the election consisting of just a few minnows for the people to choose from and that means Thaksin is going to need to dig deep into his pockets to buy out a new set of politicians.

I hope so.

It could yet be banned all parliamentarians of the last 2 years.

That would be fair. For all.

Especially those who were convicted by crimes or corruption,

and all this guys running around on bail (some since 12 years or more),

and all condemned as corrupt

and all they were baned from parliament already. The barrier of five years ban is "shit".

Start with new honest people aka representatives of the people!

Please.

Edited December 28, 2013 by tomacht8

[fab4]

Now why did you have to go and spoil a good judiciary corruption theory (fairy) tale with legal logic and truth...

It should file against the lot of them including the ring leader the puppet PM.

Whilst you're on the subject of logic, why was a fully elected Senate constitutional in 1997 (which enabled this for the first time, previously they were Royal appointments) but a suggestion for the same arrangement in 2013 is deemed unconstitutional?

Or do you regard that as a suitable excuse to dissolve the PTP (another judicial coup albeit too late).

Anyway, hasn't Thaksin bought everybody?

Because the 2007 constitution is what these judges are ruling on not the 1997 version. You can debate the rights and wrongs of the Military induced version but the courts are not there for that task in this case. Further to it being a proposal the court had already ruled it unconstitutional yet Pheu Thai chose to pursue anyhow. The simplest way to avoid the whole mess was suggested by the courts early on for constitution change was for PTP to go to referendum. But no they did not want too.

I do not see it as an excuse, as it is a court ruling by judges without bias to rule. And I think the judges are putting themselves in an awkward position by filing against two of the MP's when all including the PM were in on it and it was also the PM who proposed it. But in all honesty putting the legal implications aside and looking at it for the benefit of Thailand the country is heading into a bloody and economically crippling impasse. There are very few options left and if one of the few remaining removes non constitutional governance legally then in one legal stroke Suthep is also depowered. You can call it a judicial coup and I have no problem with that as it would not be happening if Pheau Thai were not screwing over the Constitution, and it is certainly a better option than allowing the lunatic Suthep to carry on further, is a better option than allowing the Army to directly coup and is better option than the endless merry go round of violent politicial protest from all sides that is gradually destroying Thailand.

And I have never considered the courts Thaksin lackeys. The DSI or more obviously Tarit, the Attorney General, upper Police ranks certainly are his stooges.

It was the Constitutional Court that suggested that the Government could make constitutional changes within the parliamentary system as did abhisit when he was in government. Yinglucks government followed this suggestion with respect to the Election of Senators until the Constutional Court then decided that this was unconstitutional and violated Article 68 by to overthrowing the method of government with the King as Head of State! They further compounded the confusion having claimed this "treasonous" act had occurred by doing nothing to penalise the perpetrators.

Either you're overthrowing the State ot you're not, there's no middle ground. The CC has been constantly unreliable in it's logic ever since the first (of many) challenges from the dems had them debating the significance of "and" and "or" on the basics about how complaints to the CC are made.

That is why the government were quite correct in their scorn of the CC rulings. They were doing what they were told to do and they were told it was unconstitutional.

If you follow that path the Constitution could never be changed.

[hotrod4098]

What still amazes me is the Thaksin has so much money and maybe only 15 years left to live. He's spending his days every day, for the last xx years in fact, trying to amass more money and power. Every day he must wake up stressed, and it must affect his health. He has no time to enjoy his money, help people with it, and be happy. He truly is a man living in poverty.

thais do not like to die outside thailand..as you said 15 years more left on this planet..take away his bird time..you can see why this is a win win win for him..

it now or never time to return..if the amnesty goes down the tubes..so does he..maybe exiled for life..

money not the problem..its to die on thai soil he wants...