Is Thailand A Failed State?

[phetaroi]

A couple of more responses I failed to address:

@Thaight: No state is perfect. As far as states that are generally in a much better place...just in Southeast Asia...I would say Singapore and Malyasia.

@Thailiketoo: Rich versus porr. Muslim versus Buddhist. And as you say, "unsolvable"?

[charliebru]

One way or another things seem to work out here; it certainly is far from the worst governed country in the world. These continuing problems are what help to keep things cheap for us foreigners; I can live with it.

[klauskunkel]

I would classify Thailand politics as a teenager. They are going through adolescence. A lot of name calling, rebellion, total rejection of authority and going to extremes.

...and pimples!

[ttthailand]

Thailand a failed state...economically no. But due to the new mind set of chasing money and material things the Thai people are loosing their sweet loving culture. In this sense they are truly in decline.

[phetaroi]

Thailand a failed state...economically no. But due to the new mind set of chasing money and material things the Thai people are loosing their sweet loving culture. In this sense they are truly in decline.

Yes, I used to chuckle at these poor young working guys on the Sky Train huddled over their Blackberries...probably perfume clerks in a department store and living in a shack. But they had to have that Blackberry.

[i claudius]

Thailand a failed state...economically no. But due to the new mind set of chasing money and material things the Thai people are loosing their sweet loving culture. In this sense they are truly in decline.

Yes, I used to chuckle at these poor young working guys on the Sky Train huddled over their Blackberries...probably perfume clerks in a department store and living in a shack. But they had to have that Blackberry.

Our son is the same ,always a new phone ,but yesterday his girlfriend gave my wife her "old" phone because she had just got a new 28000 baht one ,are kids mad? i know her familly can well afford it ,but to my mind its just crazy the way the Thais are becoming so embroiled in the new consumer age ,unfortunatly mostly on credit.

sent from my old paid for computer,because i dont have apps on my gas operated phone

[i claudius]

Thailand a failed state...economically no. But due to the new mind set of chasing money and material things the Thai people are loosing their sweet loving culture. In this sense they are truly in decline.

Yes, I used to chuckle at these poor young working guys on the Sky Train huddled over their Blackberries...probably perfume clerks in a department store and living in a shack. But they had to have that Blackberry.

Our son is the same ,always a new phone ,but yesterday his girlfriend gave my wife her "old" phone because she had just got a new 28000 baht one ,are kids mad? i know her familly can well afford it ,but to my mind its just crazy the way the Thais are becoming so embroiled in the new consumer age ,unfortunatly mostly on credit.

sent from my old paid for computer,because i dont have apps on my gas operated phone

[ianf]

Simple answer? YES!

[passingas]

Democracy.....remember....a democracy is two wolves and a sheep, voting on what's for dinner. pg

[tingtongteesood]

Please listen to Doctor Shinawatra to learn how we can solve these problems

Pure Thaksin propaganda, I am disgusted with Arirang that they would air such utter drivel !

How can he keep such a square face telling such bold faced lies !? He says he wants the people to come together, so why in the hell has he been trying so hard to drive them apart ? I guess he means he wants everyone to turn red. Can't he see that a great many people do not want to join his red personality cult ? The dictator has spoken so we must all do as he says - HELL NO ! The smiles will return to this land when your family and cronies stop using it as your personal bank and let people who actually want to do what is best for the country take charge.

He says he doesn't want to go back to politics, the puppet master is still pulling the strings, he never left !

He talks about sacrificing for the country - as far as I can see he has made the country sacrifice for his personal gain. 'I want to help the people' - HA what a load of bs, you only want to help yourself !

DISPICABLE, the face of pure evil spitefulness.

[Suradit69]

"A state perceived as having failed at some of the basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government."

I hate it when that happens.

[dannyman]

SIAM

[Leung Falang]

Canada perhaps though I am not from there.

I would answer your question with another question. What is an example of a successful state across the globe today?? Go on and strain your brain... there is no such thing..only states with the biggest military presence... and hence hedgemonic powers. The fact that this many people feel energised and outraged enough to demonstrate their supposed rights to free speech and organise in such large quantities sends a positive and defiant message to me..a brath of fresh air.

The vast many of people in the western world are apathetic sluggish automotons that believe they co-exist in healthy functioning democracies which is the idea that has been served up to them by the right left paradigm that the mass corporate media perpetuates, all while we inhale a bucket of KFC and slurp on a super size tank of coca cola while proclaiming they are free all while the worlds economy is in turmoil. To me, at least... this mass example of civil disobediance is refreshing and only wish it caught on around the globe.. especially in my country.

[RigPig]

Thais live in a country where they can get electricity almost everywhere, shelter, water and food at a reasonable price. They aren't at risk ( normally ) of being abducted for their body parts or mugged routinely, and their money is safe in the banks.

Seems a pretty reasonable country to me.

If it was a real failing/ failed state, eg Afghanistan or Pakistan, how many of us would still be here?

BTW, there is no such thing as a real democracy in existance, and the US financial system is so corrupt that it destroyed the lives of millions around the world in 2008.

Electricity ALMOST everywhere...

EXCEPT 2000 schools

This IMO is a sign of a failed state !!!

[BlueSkyCowboy]

I'd say it's a failing state...as in on it's way to a failed state.

Yea, they are learning from the USA the land of fools

[slipperylobster]

I would say that it is having growing pains. When they split between North and South Thailand, then you can call it a failed state. I would classify Thailand politics as a teenager. They are going through adolescence. A lot of name calling, rebellion, total rejection of authority and going to extremes.

Nothing in Thailand or any country can be failed. We humans are fallable not failable. We make mistakes but it is our nature to progress and Thailand is no different.

Personally, I would stay out of political conversations with comments like your OP. You will most likely get a boot in the mouth from both red and yellow. Showing how to make something better is criticism. Just pointing out negativity or weakness is critical.

Almost any country can be said to be a "Failed State", if looked at from a skewed perspective.

It's just too easy for Westerners to say Thailand is failing. My dad grew up in the Great Depression of the USA, and his grand dad grew up in the Civil War. I grew up during the early 60's when demonstrations, both black and white, were a daily occurrence. Now its Obama....

[zeichen]

"Now its Obama"

Yeah, Busch, had nothing to do with the problems, its all Obama. Not to mention the Congress, Senate, voters, individuals. I love that scapegoat mentality is still running rampid in the US

[slipperylobster]

one word........ObamaCare

[kotsak]

I wouldn't call it a failed state but IMHO it's FUBAR..

[hanno]

I would call places like Somalia, Sudan, or Afghanistan failed states. Surely anyone that puts Thailand near those countries must be joking?

[thaibeachlovers]

The country is fine, it's the state mechanism that's failing.

Don't worry. Thailand will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Nothing is permenant. Not even chaos in thailand.

Any country can go either way, be it by their own hand or someone elses.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like in the 1960's. Compare and contrast.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960s-photos/5846/

Thanks for the link.

Interesting to see that they then and Thailand now have the same lack of pavements.

I had to chuckle to see the bandsmen in their German coal scuttle helmets. There are some on here that would complain about that though!

The US has a lot to answer for, by arming the religious fanatics, training them in guerilla war and then abandoning them as soon as the Russuins were defeated. They did no one alive today any favours there.

[liddelljohn]

The next coup will be the last it may temporairly bring styability but as even the military have factions now it will lead to civil war ,,, very worrying IMHO i have seen every thing in Thailand over the years but now I see and feel the instability and polarisation of society and opinions I think things will get a lot worse ....

[thaibeachlovers]

As the original poster, I wanted to wait at least 24 hours before responding to any of the posts.

First of all, some of you are jumping to the conclusion that I feel Thailand is a failed state. That's not my position. It is what I am questioning, and why I wanted to see the viewpoints of others. And, @Thaatheart, when I visited Thailand for a month each year, and then lived in Thailand for two years, I didn't discuss Thai politics. Now being back in the States, I have the luxury of being able to do so.

@Costas2008, here's my question for you. What is it you think the Thais are learning? To free themselves from corruption? Definitely not. If anything corruption gets a stronger and stronger hold on the country as each year passes. To desire democracy (whatever that is)? I would suggest that the only concept most Thais have about democracy is that it's only democracy when their side wins...which of course, is not democracy at all.

@Neversure: Good point about Thais seeing the Thai-way as the only good thing. Of course, that means there is little incentive for change.

@ABCer: How can you say that coups are "a normal state of affairs" if you also say that your country is a democracy? You can't have it both ways. (And I remind you, that I think coups in Thailand have often brought better governments than elections). And, you believe that "nobody obeys any laws anyways". It would seem to me that a relatively lawless society is one thing that defines a failed state. You say that, "Corruption is ingrained" and that virtually nothing will "weed it out". So it's hopeless to have an honest government that rules for the good of the people. Again, that would seem to me to be an ingredient of a failed state. And finally you said that, "Thailand has been failing so long that there is no visible end in sight", yet you say that Thailand is not a failed state. I just don't understand the ABC's of your post.

@Briggsy, yes, I know about all the many industrial estates...that primarily rely on foreign companies. This is a rediculous thread? Okay, I guess it's not as deep as so many of the threads that want to discuss things like bar girls and bar boys. Sorry to be so predestrian.

@Thaibeachlovers: Well, with that moniker I would guess you're living the good life in Thailand...one you could leave at anytime and return to your country...something Thai people cannot do. Having lived in Thailand myself, I would guess that right now you are living with a higher standard of living than the vast majority of Thais outside of major cities.

Again, I'm not saying Thailand is a failed state, but I am sincerely worried for its future. There are other countries that have virtually disintegrated...including right in Southeast Asia. It didn't take much to push over the facade of stability.

Not really correct OP. I live in a non touristed city and I don't live much better than the locals, though yes. I probably do have more money, though not a lot more. Unlike some retired expats, when my western ex and I split, I got zip, so no condo living and shopping for the western food at Tops for me.

Actually, I think Thais have it better than I, as they can work, which I'm not allowed to do here, so I live off savings and will be getting a pitiful pension, which would not even qualify for visa purposes.

If I had to leave Thailand and live back home, I would be below poverty level once my savings were exhausted.

BTW, my thaibeachlovers moniker is from years ago when I was earning the big money, and those days are long gone.

Edited December 30, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[james68]

The European Union is a failed superstate. At least in Thailand we know the names of the major players. In Europe, it is beyond comprehension..who is in charge?who is responsible?what are the rules?how long will it last?will there be another war?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tim armstrong]

Given that Thailand is frequently the first or second largest exporter of rice in the world and about number 4 in rubber, its hard to see that failed state applies. You could even argue that the 52 or so parties that will contest the next election is a better representation of the country than the 2 or three that usually compete in Australia, US, UK, and many other places. Is the baht doing badly at present ? surprisingly - no.

[phetaroi]

Given that Thailand is frequently the first or second largest exporter of rice in the world and about number 4 in rubber, its hard to see that failed state applies. You could even argue that the 52 or so parties that will contest the next election is a better representation of the country than the 2 or three that usually compete in Australia, US, UK, and many other places. Is the baht doing badly at present ? surprisingly - no.

Actually, this just came over the wire: "BPbreakingnews: Baht drops to lowest since June 2010", and before the 1997 devaluation it was 25B/US$, now it is back down to 30B/US$

[cbluck58]

AN EMPHATIC NO --- for the time being anyway.

[JSixpack]

Try visiting Rayong and Chonburi. Numerous industrial estates powering ahead at full speed, employing hundreds of thousands of people, Fortuners, 3-litre turbo charged pick-ups, on every alternate driveway. Thriving retail businesses lining every high street and shopping mall.

What failed state is this??? This is a ridiculous thread.

Just another excuse for a thread for our haters to pile on Thailand.

[thailiketoo]

Given that Thailand is frequently the first or second largest exporter of rice in the world and about number 4 in rubber, its hard to see that failed state applies. You could even argue that the 52 or so parties that will contest the next election is a better representation of the country than the 2 or three that usually compete in Australia, US, UK, and many other places. Is the baht doing badly at present ? surprisingly - no.

Actually, this just came over the wire: "BPbreakingnews: Baht drops to lowest since June 2010", and before the 1997 devaluation it was 25B/US$, now it is back down to 30B/US$

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com.

Has that changed?

[Thai at Heart]

As the original poster, I wanted to wait at least 24 hours before responding to any of the posts.

First of all, some of you are jumping to the conclusion that I feel Thailand is a failed state. That's not my position. It is what I am questioning, and why I wanted to see the viewpoints of others. And, @Thaatheart, when I visited Thailand for a month each year, and then lived in Thailand for two years, I didn't discuss Thai politics. Now being back in the States, I have the luxury of being able to do so.

@Costas2008, here's my question for you. What is it you think the Thais are learning? To free themselves from corruption? Definitely not. If anything corruption gets a stronger and stronger hold on the country as each year passes. To desire democracy (whatever that is)? I would suggest that the only concept most Thais have about democracy is that it's only democracy when their side wins...which of course, is not democracy at all.

@Neversure: Good point about Thais seeing the Thai-way as the only good thing. Of course, that means there is little incentive for change.

@ABCer: How can you say that coups are "a normal state of affairs" if you also say that your country is a democracy? You can't have it both ways. (And I remind you, that I think coups in Thailand have often brought better governments than elections). And, you believe that "nobody obeys any laws anyways". It would seem to me that a relatively lawless society is one thing that defines a failed state. You say that, "Corruption is ingrained" and that virtually nothing will "weed it out". So it's hopeless to have an honest government that rules for the good of the people. Again, that would seem to me to be an ingredient of a failed state. And finally you said that, "Thailand has been failing so long that there is no visible end in sight", yet you say that Thailand is not a failed state. I just don't understand the ABC's of your post.

@Briggsy, yes, I know about all the many industrial estates...that primarily rely on foreign companies. This is a rediculous thread? Okay, I guess it's not as deep as so many of the threads that want to discuss things like bar girls and bar boys. Sorry to be so predestrian.

@Thaibeachlovers: Well, with that moniker I would guess you're living the good life in Thailand...one you could leave at anytime and return to your country...something Thai people cannot do. Having lived in Thailand myself, I would guess that right now you are living with a higher standard of living than the vast majority of Thais outside of major cities.

Again, I'm not saying Thailand is a failed state, but I am sincerely worried for its future. There are other countries that have virtually disintegrated...including right in Southeast Asia. It didn't take much to push over the facade of stability.

Mr. Phetaroi it doesn't take long to see Thailand problems. A bit of academic reading and just being in country long enough to get away from buckets of booze and you'll see what's wrong.

It's not a failed state but could it become one? Yes but not likely. The country us extremely split but the funny thing is it always was.

TV shows were making jokes about people from isaan with their dark skin years before Thaksin. It is this division and snobbery that is at a root of so many problems.

Times have changed. The little guy will be heard and the haves had better learn a better line in comedy before this gets more serious. The whole patriarchal structure with respect for position is going to have to give a little.