Pesticide use and child endangerment at Thai school, Advice?

[willyumiii]

At 2:00 pm today I showed up an hour early to pick up my 5 year old daughter from school.

I was shocked to find students and teachers standing around in clouds of pesticides that were being applied!

I immediately loaded up my daughter and other children from my village and left the school yelling ( like an upset farang) to the teachers that applying pesticides with children present was bad, stupid and irresponsible!

They just smiled!

To make it even more unbelievable, the school was closed Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of this week when the application could have been done with no one present but the applicator!

I would like some advice as to how to deal with this issue.

I can not afford to take my child to another school, but would if I could.

I no longer think the school is concerned or responsible enough to assure the safety of my child when in their care.

I am "retired" and have considered spending my entire day at the school to be sure she is not foolishly put into any more dangerous situations.

Should I file complaints with the school system or will this make life for my child and family difficult?

Will it get any positive results or will we regret it?

Same question about going to the media with it, good or bad idea.

I know this is Thailand and I have made the choice to live here with my family, but where I come from it would be unacceptable to apply poisons with children present.

I do realize that the application is necessary.

Disease from mosquitoes is in the area and they need to be controlled.

I know Thai bureaucracy is sensitive and the stupid "face" issue is everywhere.

Am I being foolish wanting to do something about this?

Footnote:

I don't need to hear from those who feel pesticides are O.K. and I shouldn't worry.

I have a degree in Horticulture, am an Internationally Certified Arborist, and was a licensed herbicide and pesticide applicator for years in California.

I know pesticides and their dangers, and the dangers are even higher for children!

I believe there is a use for pesticides when used in a safe manner

This is not the way they should be used!.

Thanks in advance for any reasonable, practical, advice on what if anything iI can do about this.

Below is a statement and an example of how pesticides effect young children.

When it comes to pesticides, children are among the most vulnerable. Pound for pound, they drink 2.5 times more water, eat 3-4 times more food, and breathe 2 times more air. They therefore absorb a higher concentration of pesticides than adults.

Edited January 3, 2014 by willyumiii

[LennyW]

What pesticide were they using?

[harryfrompattaya]

I know this is Thailand and I have made the choice to live here with my family, but where I come from it would be unacceptable to apply poisons with children present.

What do you expect? You said you know this is Thailand

[Gsxrnz]

Buy a box full of those cheap masks that everybody wears. Take them to school and present them as a gift to the school. Explain that you know the importance of protecting children from mosquito bites, and thank them for being so concerned about your child's well being and eliminating the pests.

Suggest that if they ever need to spray during school hours again, (because surely it was an omission to spray over the holidays while the kids were away, considering the health effects of pesticides, but yes you understand the job had to be done while they were there because it was so importantly pressing to eliminate the mosquitos), that they issue the masks to all the children and staff for continued and improved safety.

Also, politely suggest that while the masks are of some benefit, they only partially protect the user, it would probably be safer for the staff and children if the spraying was done after hours or during holidays/weekends. But you fully understand that they were correct in wanting to eliminate the mozzies - job well done and all that.

Everybody saves face, nobody is blamed, nobody admits responsibility or is called to admit responsibility - sorted.

Well, it's one way to broach the subject without causing conflict, and it could just work.

[Lostpack3t]

Request a meeting with the Head of the School. Bring an interpreter. Have a quiet discussion explaining your background and the reason why you lost your temper. Stress that you would like to help ensure the correct use of the pesticides and the safety of the children and the staff. Offer your assistance. Being helpful will get you results if you can do it in an unobtrusive way. Let the school be in control but quietly manipulate the thinking of those in charge. And do it all with a smile! Demanding change will not work. Complaining will not work.

[wym]

Remember life is cheap here.

As a foreigner your and yours are even more so.

There are so many actual life-threatening risks that are so much higher here you have to accept being here this kind of thing really isn't worth getting worked up about, sure do what you can but honestly if you want things to be so much less risky than they actually are you should consider heading home, or at least to a more regulated civilization.

[BudRight]

Thais don't care. You aren't going to change that.

[Mrjlh]

Question was asked but never answered....What chemical were they spraying? If you don't know what it was how can you be so sure it is dangerous?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The danger is not pesticides but that they might get a Thai quality education.

[belg]

you can go shout and explain

all you want

thais will never listen

because they know everything and better than you

sad but true ...

maybe give your children NAC or Glutathione after a spraying to help toxins leave the body ...

[falangadang]

They don't care and they don't get it about the attendant issues!

Taking in a box of medical masks will probably do no good as they wouldn't distribute them and even if they did they wouldn't make very much difference unless they were charcoal fiiltered. Furthermore, to add other required protection you'd have to get them to wear goggles.

We had our little ones at a local preschool for years which was in a mosquito prone area but never once did they spray when the kids were there,.. it was always after hours and on weekend.

You could talk to the school director but probably it wouldn't make any difference. Try complaining to the regional director of schools and that might do some good.

At the previous estate we lived on when they came around with the machines they would give notice of the day of spraying but then after a little while they didn't even do that and would just show up. They came down the street and would blow it into every garden irregardless of whether kids were in the yard. It made me want to chase the applicator guy down the road and punch the crap out of him but my wife talked me out of that one which was probably for the better.

We eventually left that estate as it was just the tip of the iceberg in things to come later and I'm so glad we are out of there now!

[playboy]

Hi;

I used to be a kid in thai's boarding school in the country side. Long year ago, I remembered they told us to stay in the dorm in certain night so they can spray pesticide. I was in Los Angeles during 1984-1990, city goverment will announce certain day time durning the night that they will be on helicopter to spray some pesticide over certain residence area in Los Angeles. They said it supposed to be safe but they still want us to cover the car so I could not tell you how safe it is if the car metal or car paint still will be damaged.

I think you should take recommendation from one of memeber here which very good advices "Buy a box full of those cheap masks that everybody wears. Take them to school and present them as a gift to the school. Explain that you know the importance of protecting children from mosquito bites, and thank them for being so concerned about your child's well being and eliminating the pests.

Suggest that if they ever need to spray during school hours again, (because surely it was an omission to spray over the holidays while the kids were away, considering the health effects of pesticides, but yes you understand the job had to be done while they were there because it was so importantly pressing to eliminate the mosquitos), that they issue the masks to all the children and staff for continued and improved safety.

Also, politely suggest that while the masks are of some benefit, they only partially protect the user, it would probably be safer for the staff and children if the spraying was done after hours or during holidays/weekends. But you fully understand that they were correct in wanting to eliminate the mozzies - job well done and all that.

Everybody saves face, nobody is blamed, nobody admits responsibility or is called to admit responsibility - sorted.

Well, it's one way to broach the subject without causing conflict, and it could just work."

A lot of time, I think that Thai people does not expose often enough about certain thing, so they do not know what to do. If there are some body tell them properly way to do thing, they will listen to as some member mentioned in this forum.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Many chemical's and very toxic substances are part of every day life here. To get real advice, you must know what they were spraying.

My advice, is home schooling. Only put your child in the local village rote system if you hate ^%#$ them.

[Ruin]

Sadly the locals spray all sorts of chemicals everywhere. This is not unusual and a thin mask is only any good for keeping out particles. Not much you can do. Think of all the surface contact, water fountain, canteen etc.

The shouting episode has lost you some face in the community if you ever wanted to integrate a little. Shouldn't do that.

[cracker1]

Perhaps you could file an official complaint and you may also be able to get other parents to sign also. This may help alleviate any personal redress from the school authorities.

Have a look at the attached Complaint Form.ComplaintFormForForeignerOnly_081254.pdf

[willyumiii]

From the OP...

Thank you for the advice, much of it very good advice!

I'm still upset about this happening, but have calmed down a lot.

I like the idea about providing the school with masks and discussing the advantages of applying the pesticides at times when no one but the applicator is present.

Thanks again to those who helped!

This thread may be closed now.

[recycler]

The white cloth masks won't work, only the carbon filled ones if worn properly (white outside and green inside) using the metal strip to close around the nose. But probably most kids have too small faces for the masks to close up around the mouth and nose.

Your best option is to convince them to spray at other times.

Maybe you can tell them that this is more dangerous than rain ;-)

The main problem is that they don't like to take advice certainly not when it comes from a farang....

[thefamilyjules]

I've just seen your thread and if you're still reading, here's a bit about my experience teaching in Thai schools. I've been in this country for nearly five years, four of which I was an Engilsh teacher in Thai schools and language centers.

First, let me say that your story makes my blood boil and I'm so sorry that your daughter is subjected to things like that. Your indignant reaction is totally understandable, but again, and very unfortunately, concern for safety and social welfare is virtually non-existent in this country. Taking it to them with an emotional reaction is futile. In fact, their arrogance and thickheadedness is so great that even a calm discussion, as was suggested already, will likely be futile. To me, though, standing up to injustice and cruelty was worth it when I felt that I had to or else go insane with rage over what I witnessed day after day.

Negligence is the norm in Thai schools and varies only by matter of degree. Dangers to physical safety and emotional well-being, particularly corporal and verbal abuse directly from Thai teachers, are very common and to suggest to school officials anything different will always result in a struggle and insistence to save face. Preschools (anubaan/kindergarten) schools are the absolute worst. The children are treated worse than animals -- smacked on the head, pushed out of the way, hair yanked, grabbed hard on the arm, whacked with rulers and sticks, yelled at and insulted gratuitously (I'm fluent enough in Thai to have understood a lot of what they said to the kids), have their pants pulled down and behinds exposed for laughs, placed to stand on a high shelf for punishment, held down and mocked while in tantrum by several teachers at one time, stripped naked in front of peers and made to change into other clothes by themselves after soiling their pants. The list goes on, including exposure to paint and other chemicals, leaky and gagging septic systems, undisposed of and rancid trash, filthy kitchen food, and horrifically repulsive bathrooms.

I was hired to be a K3 class teacher at a private school owned by an extremely arrogant, old-monied Thai woman in Bangkok. The school was a total joke but claimed to have this, that, and the other special program. I stood up to abusive Thai teachers, particularly my class co-teacher who was narcissistically wicked. I complained calmly, genuinely, and persistently to the agents who were my supervisors and ran the English program for the school. In the end, I kept my job and work permit and maintained my own personal safety from backlash (revenge from a loss of face), and the school installed videocameras in every classroom and common area. I refused to work with the Thai teacher who was the worst perpetrator even though she was subdued somewhat and got switched to teach another class. The rest of the year there was hell and the Thai teachers at every preschool where I worked after that were equally as reprehensible. They don't have to take personal responsibility for anything whatsoever, pretty much like everyone else here.

That's just one of many of my experiences related to your situation. It's the culture and is the norm for them. The most aggravating aspect is their denial and lackidaisical attitude toward any voice of reason. It's all about saving face and reeling in the money. Having a talk with the school director will at least put your mind at ease that you did what you could.

Edited January 4, 2014 by thefamilyjules

[Thai at Heart]

Of its what they normally use, it's no more dangerous than household bug spray.

Now it's not great that they did it, but neither is it likely to kill anyone on the spot. A small dose once in a lifetime is hardly life changing.

Just wait until your kids come home with a temperature and a cough and you find out that the school gave them a vaccine with no warning, information or vaccine.

[wym]

In my opinion any parent of school-age kids living in Thailand who can't afford well over half a million baht per student for the 6-10 true international schools, or isn't able to home-school, is being irresponsibly selfish remaining here when they could get a MUCH better (and obviously safer) education back home for free.

[farang000999]

OP what chemical are they using?

[Kitsune]

Thai pesticides are not only used in much higher concentration ( 200 times the level allowed in Europe/US) but also products which have never been allowed in the West are freely used and abused here.

Regularly you see in the news countries stopping fruits and veg imports because of their toxicity, but here no one gives a hoot about that.

I would personally be more worried about what she eats here everyday, more than one time intoxication

Edited January 4, 2014 by Kitsune

[Thai at Heart]

Thai pesticides are not only used in much higher concentration ( 200 times the level allowed in Europe/US) but also products which have never been allowed in the West are freely used and abused here.

Regularly you see in the news countries stopping fruits and veg imports because of their toxicity, but here no one gives a hoot about that.

I would personally be more worried about what she eats here everyday, more than one time intoxication

If anything, fumigators under dose the product because it costs money.

The high levels in food are completely unrelated to the levels used in fumigating for pests in buildings.

[a99az]

Just one of the many reasions why l took my two small girls out of aThai school and put them in a school in the UK.

Not what was best for me but the best for them.

[Kitsune]

Thai pesticides are not only used in much higher concentration ( 200 times the level allowed in Europe/US) but also products which have never been allowed in the West are freely used and abused here.

Regularly you see in the news countries stopping fruits and veg imports because of their toxicity, but here no one gives a hoot about that.

I would personally be more worried about what she eats here everyday, more than one time intoxication

If anything, fumigators under dose the product because it costs money.

The high levels in food are completely unrelated to the levels used in fumigating for pests in buildings.

Expensive in the West where the cheap and nasty stuff is not allowed, here there is no regulation...

The topic is about the OP's daughter's intoxication.

My opinion is that she gets intoxicated far more on a daily basis eating poisoned Thai food, or breathing polluted air than a one time exposure.

[Gsxrnz]

The white cloth masks won't work, only the carbon filled ones if worn properly (white outside and green inside) using the metal strip to close around the nose. But probably most kids have too small faces for the masks to close up around the mouth and nose.

Your best option is to convince them to spray at other times.

Maybe you can tell them that this is more dangerous than rain ;-)

The main problem is that they don't like to take advice certainly not when it comes from a farang....

Giving them masks was not the point of my post. The masks are just an entry to recommend (read: Manipulate) them in to seeing the error of their ways.

A huge bowl of som-tum would probably do the trick as well.

A gift of any kind means the receiver is obligated to listen to you and return a favour for the gift. The favour is simply listening to the OP politely and if he does it right, he'll get a result.

[RBOP]

Make an appointment to see the Head Master. Then politely tell him/her that spraying should be done well after school hours or on the weekends when the school is closed. The important thing is to not rant, rave or yell as that will get you absolutely nowhere.

[SOTIRIOS]

...unfortunately...they are oblivious to the dangers...adverse effects....aside from inhalation....

..pesticides are oil-based neurotoxins...

...they remain on surfaces sprayed...get absorbed through the skin....accumulate in the body....

...cause immunological....reproductive ...neurological problems.....

[davidst01]

I know an aussie red neck who drank a shot of 'round up' 10 yrs ago and is still alive today. Dont get too neurotic OP about a bit of spray. If its 365 days a yr then worry about it

[Thai at Heart]

Thai pesticides are not only used in much higher concentration ( 200 times the level allowed in Europe/US) but also products which have never been allowed in the West are freely used and abused here.

Regularly you see in the news countries stopping fruits and veg imports because of their toxicity, but here no one gives a hoot about that.

I would personally be more worried about what she eats here everyday, more than one time intoxication

If anything, fumigators under dose the product because it costs money.

The high levels in food are completely unrelated to the levels used in fumigating for pests in buildings.

Expensive in the West where the cheap and nasty stuff is not allowed, here there is no regulation...

The topic is about the OP's daughter's intoxication.

My opinion is that she gets intoxicated far more on a daily basis eating poisoned Thai food, or breathing polluted air than a one time exposure.

Stuff is dosed on ppm. Its a few spoonfuls per litre. It saves a few quid here or there

.

A house fogging operator in the uk or thailand will use largely the same stuff. There isn't a hugr cost difference between most of what these people use.

Unless they use natural pyrethrum but that isn't likely.